1970 914/4 with dual webers

The DAPO did a number on the car when it was converted to carbs. Seems he/she? removed the plastic lines in the tunnel and replaced them with one cloth covered rubber line. No leaks but I smell like gas every time I drive the car and the cabin stinks like raw fumes. I'm guessing gas is evaporating through the line in the cabin?

I also have a Facet pump mounted to the engine tin passenger side next to the heat outlet. Recently on days over 80 degrees, the car is fuel starved after 30 minutes of driving. I shut it down and wait a few minutes, starts up then dies again. i have to wait at least 30 minutes to get another 10 minutes of driving.

It looks like the gas is getting hot and bubbling so the pump is pushing air. Can't tell. Just could be a bad pump that doesn't like heating up.

So I have decided to get a rotary pump, I am looking at this Carter...right one?

http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/raframecat...26-P60504-72488

So here are my questions seeking guidance:

1. - It seems I don't have the steering cover in place since I can see my rack. Did 1970 have a cover since I don't see any mounting holes. Do I need it?

2. - How does the pump mount? Do I just drill a hole or two?

3. - Planning on getting a pre-bent feed line from Dave? (Rotary guy?) and pulling out my rubber hose. A couple "mechanics" I know are recommending that I run a stainless line outside the car along the indention of the floor plan since all new cars have their lines outside the cabin; then maybe weld a cover over the length of it...any thoughts?

Any pics of the steering cover, mounts, mounted fuel pump would be greatly appreciated.

thx, Gary

Those "mechanics" are idiots. Do I need to tell you not to listen to them? Chris Foley sells the right pipe(s) to use. You ALWAYS mount the pump lower than the bottom of the tank. Make sure the pump puts out the correct pressure for your carbs. Lotsa folks insulate the pump from the body. It cuts down on noise, which can become irritating.

Had a feeling these guys are cracked...still may be safer than what I have now but not going there.

I think best place may be nextto the rack but can't find any pics of what it looks like mounted.

This is a little hard to figure out since I don't have a pump in hand.

Any pics on the mounting? Am I looking at the correct pump?

Tangerine Racing has the kit you need:

http://www.tangerineracing.com/stainlessFu...rsion%20Package

Pump, fuel line, mounting bracket, hoses, and the expertise to do it right.

CB Performance has the pump you need and the correct AN fittings if you want to go to fitttings on the bottom of the tank. Rotary guy has the SS fuel lines and he's local.
http://www.cbperformance.com/catalog.asp?ProductID=577
http://www.cbperformance.com/catalog.asp?ProductID=1709


Kev

When I replaced my fuel line in the tunnel, I just went to autozone and got one 5-foot straight piece of 3/8" brake line (not stainless).

When I pulled out the old plastic lines, I pulled a piece of electrical 12Ga wire with it.

I then used this wire to pull the new line through.

You can make it from back to front with a perfectly straight piece.

I only bent the last few inches at the front and only ~ 15 degrees.

I used a flaring tool and 6AN fittings on each end.

To get the flare & fitting on the front it was a little tricky:
I cut the existing flare off the end that was to be the front.

I fished the line through the firewall, then pulled it up through the stickshift hole.

I then put the flare nut & the "flare mandrel" (dont know what it is called.
Then I flared the end with the flare tool.
Then I was able to push the flare nut through the front hole.

This was all done with the engine & gas tank out so access was easy.

I picked the holley rotary pump & regulator.

Stu

This is a little pricey for me



I am hoping to come to G&R and get a line from Rotary; he's usually there. I am guessing I can push the line through even with the 15 degree bend and the engine in the car?

I think I need the 3.5psi pump? CB shows $20 more than my RockAuto link. Same pump? Do I need these fittings? One outlet on the tank is plugged, I don't think the other is threaded.

I was thinking of using good hose and clamps.

Be sure to use fuel hose that is rated for ethanol laced fuel! Since the pressures used in carved cars, you don't really need the high pressure hose, and the fuel pump should be mounted in front, under the tank in the same area as the steering rack. That way, any leaks will be under the car and not in the trunk. A steel (or aluminum) fuel line should be a good idea where possible, and prebent kits are available from listed vendors.

Use some rubber isolation mounts, and the small rotary pump that CB sells ( a Piermont?) works quite well with the carbs.

There should be a cover over the steering rack, it mounts with the same bolts that hold the front suspension assembly.

Here is one a tad cheaper than the rock auto carter.

http://www.autopartsexpress.com/searchitem...764_a_7c3401378

The sweetness of the price may well be lost in the sour taste you get while sitting beside the road waiting for a tow truck ......................

Buy the Pierberg. Use hose that fits BOTH fittings well before clamping.

The Cap'n

Carter rotary pump in the classified section right now.

FYI Tangerine and CB kits are the Carter rotary.

By the time you piece together your own "kit" with all the right parts you will have spent a few hours of your time chasing down evererything and maybe saved $15. Buy Chris/Tangerines well thought out kit and get it done!

30R9 Goodyear fuel hose is resistant. Look for the black inner wall. It is the latest development from Veyance Tech. Capt, I could swear that the stock pump location in my '76 is not lower than the bottom of the tank. Now I have to look to be sure. I got a set of his fuel lines for my '73 and am happy with the product and support service. You'll save at least 20 when buying at the G n R feast. Get Roberts rubber grommets and other accessories. Another few bucks and it all new.

The kit is $200+; I can probably get the pump, filter, line and clamps for around $100 so that's more than $15.

Oh BYW, my facet is located on the engine tin so probably about 8 or 9 inches higher than the bottom of the tank. No issues until the weather stared heating up.

Holly, Carter and Piermont are all mentioned yay and nay in the search threads. Even the Facet gets good remarks here and there.

So I think consensus is the Carter is best value (sorry Cap.n) so I'll probably order it for the $35; gotta be better than my facet.

Still i would like to see how this mounts next to the rack. I see images of racks without pumps and pumps in the front trunk. I don;t want to cut, just drill a hole or two and be done with it.

I just did this and asked the same questions about mounting location. I crawled up under the car with pump in hand and could not see where I could mount it and the filter under the steering rack cover without blocking access to the lines at the bottom of the tank. I ended up mounting it in the trunk after being warned about fuel leaks but went there anyway (I much rather know when I have a leaking fuel pump anyway) Take a look at this thread:

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=146833

Kev

One can ALWAYS spend more money and get something that may or may not be 'better'. I have been left by the side of the road by many 'high' end, top of the line parts. It was my understanding that carter pumps were decent quality and many people use them with good results. That said ANY part can fail. Pierburg is a good company but even they have source factories in China.

http://www.alibaba.com/countrysearch/CN/pierburg.html

I'll post some shots of mine this evening for you. Relocated by the Porsche dealer back in 75. Also installed some custom bent tubing, to minimize the amount of line needed. It's a 3 port pump, but should be helpfull for what you want to achieve.

Another option is the dark green metal line....$20 for a roll of it and you can almost wrap it around itself without it kinking, just put your fittings on and flare the ends

This is a typical 914 mounting of a fuel pump at Patrick Motorsports.

Thats looks pretty good!^^ I wonder if I can make an isolated bracket to mount onto my stock steel round tube and get a fuel filter in there too.

Went for the Carter. $43 delivered in 2 days. It's smaller than I thought.

I crawled under the car and saw that there really isn't any room for the pump AND and the filter next to the rack without blocking the hole under the tank.

I may end up mounting it where Kev did it.

To add to things I see that the outlets on the tank are different sizes and the larger one is the one blocked off! The smaller one is the one used and there isn't even a hose clamp on it. Do I need the larger one as feed line? Too much gas for my carbs?

I can't get my fingers in there but I don't feel or see the entry into the front end of the tunnel. I am also working under car ramps with very limited space. I don't use jack stands when I crawl under the car any more; too scared.

How far in there is it? It looks as if the pipe will need a 90 degree bend in it. How does that feed line go through the tunnel and out the front. It's so tight. i don't know how I can pull out the hose from the front.

My plan was to pull out the hose will pulling in the pipe; or a wire to then pull the pipe through. As I understand the pipe goes in back to front...again engine is in the car.

Running the line outside the car is starting to look better.

"Running the line outside the car is starting to look better."

With a carb system, I can remove the engine in less than 1 hour, by myself, and nothing but 2 jackstands and a floorjack ;-)
( and a stick and a rock, but sometimes we have to share the rock )

FI takes longer just because of all the connections.

If you are afraid to remove the engine, you haven't been in this hobby long enough ;-)

Yes - to put new lines in the tunnel, the engine must be out if you want rigid lines.

Stu

Yes I am scared to drop the engine too. Not dropping...getting it back in.

I wouldn't mind dropping it to do a bunch a stuff for the winter.

Still trying to locate my camera for you. Been misplaced for a few weeks :S. Beautiful car btw David!

Wait, the engine has to come out to install stainless steel lines into the tunnel? That's not what I thought I read before.

And perfect timing for this, because I brought my 914 out of storage today for the Texas driving season (2 weeks approx.), and the Carter fuel pump is dead. Luckily I have a backup I have been using on my 911 carb conversion.

My intention was to install a stainless line that I bought a year ago from Chris, but I don't have the time to do an engine drop.

According to the Tangerine Racing website:
"Easy Installation with the engine in the car. (Instructions included)"

In the vendor's section where Chris talks about this product, there are many posts about how quick and easy it is to install these with the engine in the car.

Since you bought the line from Chris, I'm sure he'd share the secret with you. If you cobbled the pieces together so save a few bucks, then "the solution is left as an academic exercise".

I don't have his kit yet, but it's on my shopping list.

Ok, that sounds more like what I remember reading (it was a year ago).

That endeavour awaits...

but what about the front? Does the tank have to come out? Hood off?

I can;t see where the hose enters the tunnel in front.

There is an access plate in the car under the dash just to the right of the pedal cluster that you have to open up. Also underneath where you were looking to locate the pump there is that large circular opening. I did mine with tank out but think you should be able to do it with it in. Lube up the SS lines at the access panel to shove them through the rubber grommet.

Here's the shots as promised. Accommodating a later style pump would of been much easier, but had this one laying around. Used one of Racer Chris' step lines. The rest I bent myself using brake line. Should give you an idea where to mount the pump anyway.

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Wow, I would have never thought it possible even after looking it over myself. So you can get the rack pan on over all that too?

By the way, how did you get your car flipped upside down in your second photo without damaging it?

Kev

If your fuel supply line was hooked to the smaller of the tubes on your tank, you are tapped into the return line connection. It is a small hole in the tube with no filter sock over it and can starve a pump for fuel.

The larger line is supply and has the filter sock over it inside the tank to keep crap outta the fuel lines.

The rack pan fits fine. The fuel pump relocation was done by the Porsche Dealer back in 1975 for the previous owner. They didn't use any step lines. If you can source a late style feed pipe and compression nut, you can run a 7mm ID or 5/16th line, right from the tank to the filter. I still might do that. I tested it out, and it works fine, and also takes the screen no problem.
The only other step line you'll need, is from the pump through the tunnel. I used one of the OEM step hoses for that. Ideally, replacing the 9mm tunnel line with one of Racer Chris' SS 5/16ths would resolve that issue as well. I wanted to minimize the amount of fuel line, so hence the prefabbed brake line.
Let us know how it turns out

Great. I didn't know there's no sock on that outlet. Thought maybe they shared it.

I didn't even look, but does anyone know the size of the connections on the Carter fuel pump?

Same size as the larger tank outlet? 3/8"? What size hose / pipe do I need?

I think I have 3/8" running at the engine side to the carbs. I read things about step-up/step-down connections.

I scored a 5/16" fuel line from Robert (Rotary'14) at G&R. Thanks man, you gave me the confidence to try and pull my tank.

So, got home, unscrewed the strap, a tug here and there and out it came. Did it myself.

I'm amazed at how light it it.

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I did notice these plastic brake lines...is this stock?
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Hi Gary,, nice to put a face to the name. You see,, it wasn't as bad as you thought! (pulling the fuel tank).

Yes the brake lines are stock plastic on the un-pressurised (sp?) side of the brake system.

-Robert

So I bought 30R9 fuel line from Autozone-$4.50 per foot. Rigged it all up an here we go...pump up front.
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I still need to run the wires nicely.

When I pushed the line through the tunnel it took a few trys. I covered the tip but it came off in the process so my line picked up crud.

So I ran another fuel filter in the engine to catch the crud.
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Here is the tee line to the carbs. Going to need to swap out that filter.
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With the board in and car running....yahoo!
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I wired this up to the back of the fuse box with an inline fuse.

Do i need some sort of relay?

Kinda depends if the pump keeps running after the motor quits, like an accident?