That appears to be the connector to the warm up regulator if the wire harness is long enough ... grey in color (unless you already have the electrical connected to the wur).

I know you told me, but I can't remember. Where is the warm up regulator? Will the car start with the wur disconnected?

Pieper

Warm up regulator is the square thingy, passenger side, that the fuel line from the Fuel Distributor goes to, along with a vacuum line(s) from the throttle body. Has an electrical plug on it for the heating coil. Mounted between cylinders 2 & 3 on the intake runners.

It may start but will run rich as it is responsible for regulation of the fuel pressure to the Fuel Distributor.

auxiaurilary air regulator that appears you dont have one, no worries

Thanks Jeff ....

Warm Up Regulator (Control Pressure Regulator)

Yours has been modified to adjust Control Pressure manually. That's what the bolt is sticking out of it.

Any tips for pulling the distributor with the engine in the car? The O ring has a firm grip.

Pieper

Cut a hole in the firewall so you can get to it

Twist and pull ... twist and pull ... it will come out

or

Why are you removing it anyway if the engine was in time to begin with?

Kevin pulled the distributor to replace an oil line. He thinks it's one tooth off.

Pieper

Car is now backfiring instead of starting with no starting spray. Some progress.

Pieper

Did you prime the CIS system? When cold and with poor fuel pressure or an unprimed system they will back fire. Oh, backfiring thru the intake or exhaust?

I think I remember a post where you indicated that you could see the timing marks. If so, put it at TDC #1 (Z1) and note the position of the rotor in relation to the hash mark on the rim of the distributor. They should line up with the distributor in the middle of the swing.

after removing the heat shroud tube thingie, I have a much better grip to the distri.

To make sure, we jack the 914 on to the driver side, turn the motor via by rotating the wheel,
all the marks, dist. and rotor, are all in correct positions.

now the fun begins!
we turn the motor over a few times and get backfire.
I slowly turn dist. clockwise, every few time we turn it over, after is stops backfiring thru the exhaust, and starts coming thru the air box (backfire)
Relax, he has pop-off valve in the air box.
but I'm dialed in right about the original timing marks,
where we're not getting any more backfire.

so you think we start by NOW!? Nope.


so what's next?
plenty of fuel, I've check each spark wire, found 5 and 4 was not firing, inspect cap , clean now they all work, but no, still life after turning the motor over.
I'm waving the white flag, for now, regroup for tomorrow

Can it be just not enough fuel,
or more vacum leak, something from the motor "rolllng" over?
can I spray carb cleaner around ,looking for leaks? while Peiper turn the key?

we are SO close, can't really get a firm grasp on it! :

Ok ..

1.) Did you prime the CIS system? Turn key on so fuel pump runs. Lift airflow plate to facilitate fuel flow to injectors. When you hear injectors "sing" the air is bled from the FD, lines and injectors.

Now try to start the engine.

You may even try holding the airflow plate up about an 1/8" while cranking.

If fuel is flowing properly, it should fire.

I have so much fun, priming the CIS, I play with different tone of "singing"

yeah, their primed,

I like the idea of holding it open a mit bit,.
will the backfire hurt my hearing? LOL!

180 out of time. use the crank pulley not the flywheel.'' 2.7 crank= flywheel marks are not correct.

top of the morn'!

so we've a few feedback saying the dist.is 180 off,
is there any other clear indication,to really check if I'm on #1 piston, TDC,
Or am I on the downstroke of the exhaust?

my big worry part, is how could I possibly turned the the dist. 180 off?
and when adjusting the valves,every 120 degree turn, everything line up?

Your car won't start until you hook up the vacume pipe that is missing! It plugs into the cold start injector base and should go to the vacume side of the intake boot!

1 and 4 are at top dead center at the same time. Take out #1 plug blow air into spark plug hole, have someone listen at the muffler for air noise. If no noise TDC #1 firing... If you hear air TDC #4 firing.

when #1 is TDC firing #4 is TDC overlap, (both intake and exhaust slightly open )

some years are open, some are not. Something to check for sure.

Thanks Jeff,

We found a disconnected hose that comes from under the air pressure sensor. Is this what you are describing? Does it go into the rotor colored tube underneath the cold start injector?

Click to view attachment

The line shown in your picture is connected. In can be seen in one of the pictures earlier in this thread.

Pieper

Does the hose connect inside this brown thing?

Pieper

Click to view attachment

That is a plenum drain hose. The rotor colored thing may or may not need a hose. check and see if it is open or solid(closed) if solid no hose was ever on it.

I can stick my finger in. 5". Don't know after that.

So the disconnected hose is OK?

Pieper

We used this test and decided that we were 180 off. The sound difference was subtle. Kevin felt Mrs back pressure when I didn't hear anything.

No more backfiring, but no starting either.

Pieper

Rhetorical question, how does one test for vaccum leaks when the car is backfiring and not start a fire?




We had a little excitement this morning.

Pieper

use a stick or wire make sure it dead ends at abput 3/4

lift the plate and then give a bit of throttle while cranking

Put a vaccum gauge inline to check for vaccum leaks. It will likely not even read or have a veryy low and bouncing reading when cranking.

we just walked away, take a breather.

I took Jeff advise and tried the Blow air tech.
Really cool! Pieper listen to the tailpipe, but I notice no resistance when I blew in a hose, pushed up against the spark plug hole.

Popped the dist. off, after I lined up everything, turn rotor,180.,re-set dist.
nothing happened, but Pieper says it sounds better.

started turning the dizzy,turn the motor routine, got backfire,tail pipe(not as bad)
turn dizzy, other direction, turn motor, nothing, keep going, till backfire thru intake,
I notice I was about max. out on dizzy adjustment, when ahead and pull dizzy off, (Hey I'm good at this part!) turn a tooth, put it all together.

Results? backfires still there, but on either side of timing mark I made before working on the motor (Mark on dizzy and engine case.)

Kevin and I are calling "uncle "for this week. We will begin studying CIS testing videos. Probably pick up a vaccum tester too.

Maybe I can take the car up north where some of our local experts can take a look.

Thanks again for the support this weekend.

Pieper

Bummer Guys

You keep saying that you have fuel flow. By what test? If the motor sat for an extended period of time, the center plunger in the FD can be stuck. The only way to tell this is to remove the FD from it's mount and check.

The fuel outlets in the FD can be plugged with rust. That's why I clean the FD before installation.

The injectors could be clogged. The only way to check is to pull the injectors out, place each in a separate container, fire off the fuel pump and lift the air flow plate. If they dribble fuel or none at all ... no good. They need to be cleaned. You should get a fine mist in a conical spray.

Injectors can be removed with a 2X4 and claw hammer as they are just pressed into the manifold with rubber kinda O rings (they are tight). No you don't beat them with the 2X4 and hammer. The short section of 2/4 is placed against the edge of the valve cover as a leverage point. Hook the injector underneath the top (not the plastic hose) with the claws and pry them out.

Air leaks:

1.) At the boots that connect the runners to the air box. Hell to get to.

2.) At the interface of the runner to the head.

3.) Since you have a pop off valve, I would not suspect a blown up air box, but then it has been known to happen (crack of separation of the seams).

Further, I would also check the firing order of the spark plug high tension leads. It's easy to mis-connect the wires on the cap.

You said you had two non-firing cylinders. You cleaned the cap and now you have spark. Did you see any cracks in the dizzy cap ... any black traces (little lines) inside the cap which could indicate crossfire?

Have a good week!

Nahh, we simply didn't have a vacuum pressure gauge.
but, hey,
we did great.
Pieper as my "ears" (funny engine noises )
pecking away at the Ipad for latest info.

I learned TONS!

Thanks to all of you GUYS ! Fuchin' awesome
I've gotten over the hurdle to learn, another Fuel Injection system,
and all their hang up! (dist. issues)

no, really,
the time you took, to type to help out a newbie, thru many many mistakes,
has built up my confidence to take the plunge, pop the dizzy, turn rotor 180,
in someone else $$$ motor, and start it. (after I double check everything of course)

I thank- you,

now back to the "Beest"ach
and her starter issuse

If you need one of the Ford solenoids (hot start relay) send me a PM with your address.

Thanks Ron,

We were assuming we had good fuel flow because we could hear the injectors prime and we could smell gas in the #1 cylinder. We tried testing for vacuum leaks with starter fluid until a backfire set the starting fluid on fire. We used the timing light to verify that all plugs are sparking. Kevin verified the firing order.

We agree that the FI is the most suspect at this point. Time to get the right tools and do a thorough testing of the system. Since I am a driver and not a mechanic, I need to decide whether I want to go forward with this on my own. I can't afford pay Kevin to come down and experiment and do the testing. Unfortunately, there is a shortage of honest and reliable german mechanics in Colorado. I'll probably take another shot at finding one before I start investing in special books and tools.

The car was running great before we took it apart 7 weeks ago. It's a shame it is taking so much effort to get it back up and running. Installation of the timing chain update was straightforward. It will be interesting to find out how we hosed up the fuel injection.

Do you know where I can get the fuel injection manual?

Pieper

OK you guys I can tell you from experience that if you do not have a vacuume line hooked to the base of the cold start injector the motor will not run!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So if there are any questions about why it wont start then you are not listening!

Sorry, rant over!

Here is the flow of the vacuume line on my motor! It starts at the base of the cold start injector then goes to the diaphram that opens and closes depending on the temprature of the engine. Then the vacuume line goes up to the high vacuume side of the AFR on the intake boot!

PS: ANY vacuume leaking or disconnected vacume lines will also keep the motor from running!

Thanks Jeff,

Listening is not the same as understanding. Here's a picture of the FI on my engine. I circled what I believe is the cold start injector and the associated vaccum line which runs to the base of the fuel distributor. Is this what you are describing?

Pieper

Click to view attachment

100% Yes!! Notice the wire with the plug and nothing to plug it into? That is for the cold start circut and goes to the vacuume diaphram that is missing on your motor! Also the vacume line on your motor that you are discribing looks like it is going to the wide open base of the cold start injector...? I can't tell from the photo but someone has removed the cold start vacuume circut. I am sure you need a larger line hooked to the intake boot and leading to the base of the cold start injector.

It is hard to see in your photo, notice the vacuume hole at the base of the cold start injector on this photo and how large it is!

Since he changed the boot, he could just put a rubber plug over the air inlet to the cold start injector.

Yes that might work but it could cause issues with cold starting or hot starting and running.

Here is a photo of the cold start sections that are missing from the motor minus the piece (diaphram) I used on my motor!

I bypassed everything except the diaphram that plugs into the cold start sensor on the front of the motor. My motor is newer (83sc) so I am still running the Lambada system with the 02 sensor!

His cold start valve operates off a thermotime switch. There is power to the cold start valve when the key is in the "start" position but the thermotime switch provides the ground to complete the circuit if the engine is cold enough. This changed in '85 to an ECU controlled ground.

It will not effect the hot start. Hot start is a function of the fuel pump check valve and fuel accumulator. System is designed to hold pressure in the system for 20 minutes for hot starts.

I guess I ment it will affect the Air Fuel Mixture when the car is cold or hot due the the fact that the diaphram allows more or less air into the cold start vacuume port at the base of the injector!

OK so then capping it off should work!?

This whole thread is to get Pieper and Kevin to understand the system they are dealing with and why the engine won't start so all things discussed are valuable to them (and maybe someone else).

Keep pitchin' ideas .. some of it will eventually kick in and they will finally get it to start. I spent an hour with them in Beaver discussing it and both their faces were painted with question marks.

I will agree that if there is a hole (cold start injector) allowing air into the airbox chamber, the engine will not start = lotsa air ... not enough fuel.

SixNotFour indicated that the loose connector is for the non-existant auxiliary air regulator and I should not worry about it.

I still need to probe the the connector bottom of the cold start injector to insure that it is closed.

BTW, I do not believe we removed any lines from the fuel injection and the engine was running great before we started the project.

I can't believe all of variations in this CIS injection system. Plus, mine has obviously been customized. When we got to Beaver, the FI seemed like a rag mop of tubes and hoses. I'm slowly starting to learn the names of the components (not necessarily their function). The info you are sharing is much appreciated, but takes awhile to digest.

I'm starting to get the bug to really understand my fuel injection just so I don't feel so stupid.

Thanks for your patience.

Pieper

P.S. I used to have a life.

I'll plug this and say a prayer.

Pieper

FYI, when I was going through this process I had the same problem. I ended up getting very frusterated and decided to deal with all the vacuume issues first and see what happened!

I hooked up a cleaned out shop vac in reverse (blowing) and taped it very tight to the intake and turned it on. Then I sprayed soapy water all over the intake runners and all intake components. I was blown away at how many small leaks I had and a few larger ones. Then I was able to focus on each one until it started and has run great since then!!

Good luck!!

As I stated before you needed to check and see if was open or closed.
Here is a pic of a closed one. (it was in a fire)

You cannot just run a hose from there to the boot, you need the auxiaurily air bypass gizmo. it allows air to pass for cold sart then closes.

That will end it

well then how in the hell it get unplugged?

when Pieper power washed the motor?