http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=201098

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=147916

Hey Paul & others,

I initially made the same mistake thinking that "Lurkers" were not members on here, but was corrected by Gint or one of the other admins.

In fact Lurkers are members who have not posted a reply or topic anywhere yet. They can have posted a gazillion FF ads in cars, parts, etc. (maybe under member vendors too) - and none count toward getting them off of the Lurker tag.

Most Lurkers & many members do not know this, & so don't go post an intro topic in the Garage.

IMHO the tag "Lurker" is misleading, and a poll to pick a better name would be more appropriate, than trying to penalize a new person on this website. I understand that Andy & the admins wanted to distinguish between members who contribute by posting in the other forums, but some who post there don't contribute per se in many cases anyway,

IMHO offering parts, products, cars, etc. is a contribution too, to those in need of them!

How about "No Post Newbie" or "Raw Newbie" or something less nefarious than "Lurker"?

I routinely will not buy from any "low post count" seller. That's my decision.

There are some guys who "find" a 914 stash somewhere and just want to get rid of the stuff. They need to have an outlet to do so. As the old saying goes, buyer beware.

Yeah it can be annoying when people who have no intention of being a member. Are only registering to sell parts. Problem is adding an arbitrary number just encourages those people to post nonsense to get to their count. I think it really just needs to be a buyer beware. I personally tend to not buy from someone with a 0 post count. I'd rather support the guys on the site who sell stuff to fund other 914 stuff. Or have just built up extra parts while building their 914. There are some of these guys who are members but just don't like the internet much. So they come on to see whats going on but really don't reply to threads. I think it is all on the buyer. I would love to see a max post in the For sale threads. Like you can't have more than 3 on the page at a time. Encourage people to post multiple items in one thread instead of individual threads for each thing

Okay, I looked at these links above in more detail, & had read them when they first came out.

These two links reference topics & member post threads about problems with specific members - Lurkers or otherwise - who have been bad & less than upfront with their dealings.

This problem is not limited to only new non-forum-posting members (Lurkers), but also includes a few longer term members with more "official topic post counts" & higher tag ratings - even some well over 50 posts.

It really is a matter of reporting & policing problems with sellers &/or member vendors who don't perform as promised, misrepresent items, etc., and allow those posts & topics to remain & get worked out, or serve as a warning to others - without getting closed down, which only serves to help & protect the offending seller/vendor.

Unfortunately in some cases, those who complain about problems with long term & better known members who are sellers &/or member vendors, get shut down & silenced by the masses by overwhelming posts attacking or contradicting the person with a problem &/or closed by the admins.

Listen - anyone can make mistakes, not fulfill their obligations business-wise, blow-off &/or piss-off customers from here, & we shouldn't suppose that the long term folks nor anyone else selling is always perfect or right.

So we all should really not be so ready to enforce group protectionism when this happens, and allow those folks with seller/vendor problems to voice their concerns & problems on here - of course after &/or in conjunction with trying to work it out by PM, email, phone, etc. with the problem person.

I'm not saying to post problems in topic threads as the first or only step - folks should try directly with the seller/vendor off line, but certainly as a part of a follow-up or part of the process to seek resolution.

And folks on this board shouldn't assume that the complaining party hasn't done something privately yet when they do post in a topic, but guide & confirm that they try to do so - rather than blasting them with those "...well I've never had a problem with 'x'....!" - since that helps neither the party to resolve the problem.

Okay - off my IMHO soap box now...

There are the "flyby" sellers who just want to get rid of a car or some parts and move on.
Then there are the "anti social" sellers who are just not into the whole online forum messaging thing.

There are plenty of reasons why we should allow people to sell their parts and services who otherwise do not participate in the site.

For example, Roger Sheridan has only posted maybe 3 times here but i have no problem what-so-ever with him offering his services and parts here.
He's a good guy. I would hate to see the good guys leave because we have some minimum post count rule.

On the other hand, if you don't know a seller and they have a low post count, you *should* be careful.
Ask around. Talk to them. Listen to your gut ...

Or a person who is selling a family car who won't/can't keep it, so sees no reason to post, & those with more limited internet access & skills/experience.

There was that nice Marathon Blue "grandpa's 73 914-2.0" that recently sold to Germany for $20k, where the estate required it to be sold. That guy was a "Lurker" & seemed honest & straight forward too.

So let each exercise due caution as you did, and allow them to come here to post FS - rather than evil-bay, which is an even bigger blind risk. I usually will try out a vendor first, before buying any big ticket or multiple items from them.

And Spoke, I won't even go into what a rough season our Stillers had, what with injuries, close losses, etc.!

Great advice Andy!

I think that speaks to Paul's point exactly. If someone hasn't contributed anything at all to the garage or anywhere else on the forum, then they are not part of this community. They are only here to sell there warez, and they haven't built any foundation of trust among us yet.

In most cases, the people who end up being slimeball sellers are those who haven't been part of the community. Forcing people to be a part of the community first builds inherent accountability and weeds out the highest risk rip-off types.

Buyer beware. I think the community gets good deals from the occasional lurker selling parts and that shouldn't be taken away from us. What's the difference between a lurker selling a part and buying something from a guy you've never met before in a parking space at Hershey?

No paypal is the online deal breaker for me.

By all means, if you get screwed by someone post and let us know.

Just because many douche bags are lurkers does not mean that all lurkers are douche bags.

I have bought from zero post people a couple of times. Only one transaction was dicey...that was with porscheparent from a year ago Porscheparent parts thread

I was lucky...I think others may not have been so lucky!

I will continue to buy; albeit, with caution!

I will be responsible with my own money, I would much rather purchase stuff here, and have lurkers be able to list the stuff, than combing ebay and other websites looking for it.

All are welcome, be careful.

Arrg!

You had to bring up the Steelers. I went to the Chargers and Bengals games - both losses.


Back to the topic: I did buy a $40 part from a lurker with 0 posts once. It looked like a good deal so I "interviewed" him through PMs. Turns out he found parts in grampa's garage and was just selling off the parts. Was a nice guy and the sale went well.

Is that a ying/yang thang?

Scammers wreck my chi bro!

Maybe I'm missing the obvious, but I would think this site is for information that we can all benefit from. Who really cares if you have been a member for 10 years or 10 minutes.

There are many very smart owners out there who may be new to the 914 ownership club. Could be others who don't own one but sincerely want to help themselves by helping others.

That's not a bad thing from my perspective. Any other way and we are a bunch of judgmental premadonnas.

It's already looking like this site is growing into a place the people administrating this are judging content and making personal judgements on what can or cannot be said.

Feels like 5th grade girls club sometimes. Maybe they are just that much smarter...

Sorry....no offense intended.

If you notice the list of people online at any given time there are a LOT of names of people who you haven't seen post. Sometimes it isn't obvious, but there are a lot of knowledgeable people here, and a lot of people with a really low tolerance for BS. That combination can be intimidating for a lot of new people, who will watch and learn for a long time before they post.... or never post at all. Doesn't mean they aren't part of the community, just that they're quiet about it. I'd hate to think someone who is really interested in the cars isn't allowed to buy or sell just because he's been shy.

You try herding several hundred rabid cats for more than 10 years and then we'll talk ...

Hey!!...I resemble that remark

Meow.

I have not been too bad for quite some time

EVERYONE HERE was a lurker at some point. Remember when? Did you forget that first day you dipped your toe in the community pool.


I commend DB for some good points said about knowledge and tolerance. Thank you!

Sometimes the BS can get a little deep around here, knee jerk stuff. Then again we have seen some really funny stuff unfold.

I never was.


No $hit! Every day...

I do not know if im doing this right because im a lurker. I love to lurk! No really im a car guy not looking to sell any parts. Hell, I horde them and need help mostly for my projects and my personality disorder fear of not having a spare. I just got a 914 so ive been lurking here devouring information and I love this forum. Its been very helpful. Although my father cant figure out why in the hell I bought a 914. He is a die hard 911 guy and I thought I was too, still owning two. But that 914 made me feel like I was still in highschool when I drove it(Im 42). Anyways, Im still waiting on hundreds of dollars of parts. Im assuming that seller is what sparked this topic. But if I were to get the therapy I need and be able to sell a part I would be honest about it. I buy parts all over the internet and there is no real safety net we can rely on to not get ripped. But to follow our gut instinct based on what we see and hear (everytime I dont listen to my gut or father im screwed). I liked the one remark about if they dont take pay pal to stay away. Im going to stick to that and I think it has some serious validity, would of kept me out of this mess. I recently was ripped off on some 911 pistons and cylinders through ebay I filed a claim and pay pal got my money back in my account in about three weeks. Oh and also Id like to file a claim against this forum. I was looking through some pics of members bikes and now Im off on a road trip tomorrow to look at a BMW R75\5 air head. I hate you guys!!!!! But it should look good next to my 79 635 csi euro. See I might be a lurker, but im just as sick as any of you non lurkersl. So there shove it cheerleaders! Just kidding, but really somebody help me.

Thank you for the perspective and thoughtful insight. In my field of expertise I am not afraid to offer an opinion, or help.
This is something totally different and it takes a while before you can even figure out how to word a question without feeling like a complete moron. I joined because this group seems to truly help one another and have fun.
You can only police and protect so much before you limit freedom of choice...

Ha Ha! you're not a Lurker anymore...

I might end up with one of those in my garage at some point.

I understand that SirAndy. And over management is tempting for good reasons. I've run Fortune 100 companies for 25 yéars. I left the politics of that to build my own company. I've always found that the more management is involved, the more screwed up the company is.

Let people be themselves. Life has a way of adjusting and leveling out the bad from the good.

Most on this site are smart enough to avoid problem posters.

I just dislike admins who think they have to control people. Most of these people couldn't control a girl scout camp effectively. They are just flexing their little girl muscles here because they can't do it in real life. They really aren't that smart yet throw themselves out there as if they were.

Oh my....

Oh good, things usually slow down on the weekend and now you have started some drama to entertain us.

You have been a member since Aug. You have limited posts. You keep making statements that pit US vs the ADMINS. You do not realize......the admins are US.

I love drama...

I have learned a lot from this poll. I didn't mean for this post to turn out like this, but we may as well enjoy it weekend entertainment.

I agree with Doc. We are admin.

I suppose I could be considered a lurker though I don't sell anything here. I have been a member for a year or so and I only have posted a couple of times because I don't know a lot about 914's. I am a 911 owner that has become infatuated with 914's and will possibly like to buy one someday. I "lurk" so that I can learn ,not because I'm shy. I can learn more by listening (reading) than by talking (posting) about something I don't know about. Love this site and all the accumulative knowledge in it. Thanks for being here.

Letting low count "lurkers" sell stuff is a terrible idea, unless your the guy that scoops the nice clean 6 for $9000. Seriously, do we need more rules? If you register on this site, you should be free to do whatever falls within the wide parameters of this site.

join date as well as post count (in their profile, activity in one forum or another is noted) is factor with me. long time member, no tech input, high percentage buying/selling with no complaints, i presume i'm fairly safe. for a short timer i have no prob contacting a member who may have had dealings with the new member. as in someone who publicly contacted the seller "pm sent". sometimes you have to do a gut check.

then you have the "how long do i wait on this guy before i call him out", and "how many excuses do i have to accept" conundrum.

Give him some time, he'll figure it out.

I know the mindset of people who "have run Fortune 100 companies for 25 years". They tend to look at things from the wrong perspective ...

According to him, it does not matter how long he has been here

I wish I had the power to know everything right after showing up.

"let people be themselves" even if they have girly mussels and are compensating?

"smart enough to avoid problem posters" i'll need to renew my clairvoyant pill script for that one.

I hate it when Im right!

i noted your success on the calendar next to my desk rich. still lots of squares to fill. keep up the good work!!!

I luv internet toughguys... it's even better when the keyboard commando is from Tejas.

Yeah, for someone who's run Fortune 100 companies for 25 years he has a surprising way to go with tact.

X2......very logical approach, we think alike as this will reduce the probability of being "taken".
In the end,it's still a crap shoot.

FYI, Steve Stromberg, the guy that was such a shit bag that we named this ofter him --> Had a post count, and was a member for a while. There are those that lie low and then take advantage of you.

There are no guarantees, you must take risk for reward. Thus, if you find a part that seems too good to be true, and you buy it only to get burned, then that is part of the way things work sometimes. That is why people who sell more often have higher prices, because those prices are more realistic and they are selling more often (or storing their crap for longer periods of time between sales).

The best way, IMHO, is to let the market decide, and call out those with bad practices and allow them to defend themselves here for our education and entertainment

YMMV

Well said Dr. Evil!!!!

Umm, is this where I post to become a non lurker?

Seriously, this is an awesome forum, which I have been lurking on for a while, trying to educate myself to prepare for the time when I pull my 914 off the road and fix all of the rust and perhaps put a subie engine in it.

To be honest, I haven't posted before because I pretty much don't know anything about 914's that somebody hasn't already said here. I hate being the newb that gets told to find the search function. With that in mind, seeing as how I have been hoarding 914 parts for about 5 years now (1 sorta nice driver, 2 parts cars, 4 engines, 4 transmissions, extra interiors, wheels, yeah I may have a problem), I think that if I ever did want to sell something to finance progress on my project, it would be cool if I could do so.

Except that will never happen--a 914 limo sounds wayyy better than selling anything...

The good doctor nailed it.

Great pic lurker, so the kid dreams of a Corvette and gets a 914 ??
Good Stuff, don't be shy.....................

Now that is an entrance !!!

Its amazing how emails or forums like this get so misinterpreted. I just love being jumped on. Thanks guys. If the guy who said it was internet bulkying or something like that, I dont get it. I was saying get out of the way and let people be people. We all figure it out without management of the site playing big brother.

That is all I meant. If I played too hard I obviously stepped on the holy grail, Sir Andy who I guess built the site. It probably came off at him, but it was a management quip...nothing more. I have just seen people get in management or admin positions and begin to dictate ridiculously. They forget why the site was built. That drives me nuts and gets me angry.

And my comment about running large companies was to say I needed to get out of the way as a manager. Just using real life experience to expree an opinion. I am no more or less than anyone on this site.

Its a poll and my comments were to say its best to get management or admins out of the way and people through free expression usually figure it out. Let the new people participate unless you want to limit this to the NW Club members. Thats fine if you do and one guy seems to not have much love for Texas, so maybe that is the deal.

I am not sure what is wrong with Texas by the way. People seem to be migrating here every day for our economy and low taxes.

Sorry for offending. It was put poorly and seemed directed, which it really was not. My apologies to the forum.