Anyone have the two plastic fuel lines from the engine compartment?

One of mine on my 74 got partially melted through because it was touching the main battery cable when it shorted to the underside of the trunk near the starter! It feels like it it about to burst and I don't want to waste any expensive fuel!

Let me know how much you want with shipping to Escondido CA (92026)

Thanks!
-Grog

Perfect time to change them both out to stainless steel ones

I considered it but everything else about the car is so original and stock that I'd prefer to keep it that way. Not as important, but I figured that a set of good used plastic lines would also be cheaper than new stainless steel ones.

If you don't replace those lines, you will have bigger problems than wasting any expensive fuel.

100%

New stainless steel. The OEM plastic lines, all of them, are 40 years old. Plastic doesn't hold up over time. When I took my lines out this past summer, they crumbled in my hands.

This is one place I broke the "My Car is perfectly stock" rule. Those stainless steel lines look better, work perfect, and will give you piece of mind.

Besides the engine bay lines are only about $50 a set and the Tunnel ones about $80 a set. Best investment you can make.

They should change the concours rules to add points for having them!

I prefer the orignal non-metallic tubing. No real beefs about the stainless steel, it has its benefits, but I like the clean look and originality of a new set of milky white plastic lines. I like seeing the fuel flowing through them. New factory OEM is not available so I make them from identical new material to match an NOS piece I have. And they are less expensive than the SS. Email me if interested in a set.

PS if the original tubing is discolored a dark brown, brittle, or damaged in any way, they should be replaced and not reused. They embrittle and discolor over time due to moisture absorption, not heat exposure.

That burning 914 is so sad!
Don't worry, I am not driving the car till those lines have been replaced. You guys have convinced me not to swap in 40 year old plastic lines. If Jeff's new plastic lines don't work out than I'll go stainless. When the red hot battery cable started to melt through the line, I bet the car was about 10 seconds away from burning to the ground!

Jeff: You have a PM!

Plus in reality, the 100% stock rule doesn't apply to functional, safety & wear items on any marque/make or model. Besides - they won't be seen in the tunnel nor behind the steering rack - only where they daylight in the engine bay.

You wouldn't get dinged value or CW-wise for changing out the original shocks, nor for going to SS on these fuel lines.

I love Jeff's stuff & his devotion to originality, but this is one job you'll want to do once, & IMHO go with the SS for a few bucks more. Sorry Jeff buddy!

Even the newer Porsches have had trouble with plastic fuel & coolant lines cracking within 10 years, as with the series 1 `03-06 Cayennes with their coolant lines in the V8 valley cracking & causing starter & trans problems.

Your choice.

I see your point. I plan on replacing the lines in the tunnel with stainless and try the new plastic in the engine compartment where it is visible. If the new plastic ones turn brittle in 5 or 10 years, than I'll replace them with stainless.
Thanks for the advice!

I will say it another way: "stock "doesn't always equal "safe"

Tough crowd! Porsche designed these cars with non-metallic fuel lines - when they easily could have provided metal lines if they had thought it was important. "I'll say it another way" - an alternate material or design does not always mean 'improved' - thats been proven time and time again on this board. Maybe race cars use stainless, but race cars have different requirements and more rigorous inspections than street cars.

Betcha the vast majority of all stock fuel injected 914s on the road today are still using the original stock non-stainless fuel lines. Thats not a good thing because they are old and can be fragile, and I agree, they should be replaced if questionable - but my point is that stainless is not the only alternative and may have its own concerns. In its 7 year production run Porsche could have switched them to metal or some other product but they did not. Not even a recall or tech bulletin. The HO recall issued 6 months after the last 914 was built, did not change them.

I trust the quality of Tangerine's products implicitly, but what are the details of those lines and similar products on the market by others so we can evaluate them? What grade of stainless is used? - some grades can corrode. What effect does battery acid have on them? Are they seamless or seamed tubing? If seamed, they can can open up, the seam is a weak point. What is the pressure rating of this material? Do these work harden causing weakness either during fabrication or while inservice from vibration? Is metal better than non-metallic? Metal is a good conductor for engine bay heat and may contribute to vapor lock. Does condensation occur in cold climates through the metal diluting the fuel with condensate moisture? Does anyone know? Maybe better would be insulated lines? If we don't know the answer to these, then 'improved' may not be 'better'.

I will stick with the factory stock material unless and until its proven that an alternative is better and that stock is defective. Touche...

Click to view attachment

Were the fuel lines originally white and turned brown with age, Jeff?

Those look like the tubing supplied with the under-sink water filter system we just installed, probably rated at the same PSI too.

This comparison of plastic and metal has me thinking. I have definitely thought that the metal lines would be better simply because they are hard and inflexible. Now that I'm thinking through Jeff's points...plastic has low thermal conductivity. A metal spoon in boiling water is hot, but a plastic spoon's temperature doesn't change that much. I hadn't thought about seamless vs non-seamless metal tubing either. A seam could be a weak point, but it isn't always. I just might switch to plastic.

Crazy... That looks like PEX tubing.

Well, to settle this whole issue of which is better, I put heat-shrink plastic tubing on my SS lines before installing them

Yep white, which is translucent with fuel in it.

That undersink tubing is simple polyethylene. Nope. PEX? Nope.

The material is Polyamide 11, otherwise known as Nylon 11. You can google its properties. I verified this info from an NOS piece.

pm sent Jeff. Interested in a set.

Jeff,
Good points! I always wondered why Porsche didn't change them out. They must have tested them to some engineering standards and found them to be satisfactory. My 76 has black plastic. Did the later years change to a different plastic or is it just a different color?
Thanks,
Tom

Hi Jeff,

I will take a set also. PM sent.

Greg

The 75-76's used black Nylon 11 lines. Same stuff, different color. By the way, the engine (Hose) end of the lines have beaded metal reinforcements inside them due to the higher working pressures.

Hey John, to be clear, we are talking about the engine bay tubing sections passing through the engine tin. The 1970-74 tubing was definitely milky white/clear. Are you saying the engine bay tubing for the late cars was black? I have not seen that...Can you post a photo?

I know the 1975-76 center tunnel tubing was black.

The plastic line we pulled out of my '75 were still fairly flexible. I've seen some early ones that were stiff and brittle.

In '75-'76 the tubing was definitely black. They were made of a different material as well, I believe the name was Teclamyte. Still have a small piece laying around somewhere but can't find it. Supposedly it was more flexible and durable. When I swap my tunnel lines for the Tangerine ones I'll post pics...

Hey Jeff,

I just looked at the pictures of my 75 2.0 (long sold). The fuel lines in the engine compartment were black. I will send you 2 pictures via email.

Greg

Jeff,
Here are pics of mine. As far as I can see, they are one single piece from the front pump to the engine hose connection.
John, thanks for the info. Mine are still pretty flexable. They don't seem brittle at all. I did notice the metal pieces when I had the engine out.
Tom

The material I use is T304 seamed tubing.
Seamless would be a waste of money in this case, as the pressure rating of the seamed tubing far exceeds the pressure in any 914 fuel system.

T304 stainless steel is more resistant to wear than nylon from chafing on steel or other hard materials.
T304 stainless steel resists battery acid much better than Nylon11.
In my shop we've seen late model black nylon lines pitted by battery acid to the point of failure.

In my experience, most early cars have already lost the OE engine compartment lines to embrittlement or acid failure.
That's why the majority of people who purchase my stainless lines don't even know their car had hard plastic engine compartment lines.

I see nothing wrong with replacing them with oem materials but the service interval will be much shorter than stainless IMO.

There are no "Tunnel Lines" and "Engine Compartment Lines" in the 75-76's, There are just one piece lines from the front bulkhead to the rubber hoses at the engine.

Wow. Look at what happened to my little WTB thread!

I'm new to these forums but I learn fast that the best way to learn about a 914 part or system is to place a WTB for it!

I appreciate all the shared info on the fuel lines and I'm sure Jeff appreciate the extra sales. When his set arrives on my doorstep I' ll take some pictures of them from the box and in the car and what I think of them compare to stock.

-Grog

Just Wondering: Would it be possible to attach the new tubing to the old tubing and gently pull out the old tubing and the new tubing would be in place? Wish that was the case!

I have my car apart and am getting ready to run new lines through the tunnel once I decide on rather to go with Jeff's "New" plastic or Stainless. Anyone know of a good old thread that shows how to replace the lines through the tunnel? I know there must be at least 2 or 3.

Try this link" http://www.914world.com/specs/tech_fuellines_ss.php

Awe Hell, plastic is fine.

In fact the "Hell-Hath-No-Fury like a Roasting Teener" is being judged over on isle 6 as we speak. The plastic will make you a shoe in for the grand prize;-P

Actually Jeff, it seems there was a recall on the lines in addition to the battery cover. I am actually working with Brumos right now to get to the bottom of this recall. There was a kit available, including replacement fuel lines. What they were and what kind, are unknown at this point. Brumos is trying to find out, but they, USA headquarters in ATL and Germany do not know as of yet.

I included specifics from Porsche at the time of the recall in the introductory post in this battery thread I started:

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=203921

If I may throw my two cents in, for those of you who want to remain plastic for whatever reason (I see the argument of pros and cons on both sides, and Jeff did bring up some good points to look out for), if the 75 and 76 models did come with black lines, it might be better to switch to the white or clear lines for a very important reason - the white and clear lines will show visible signs of age when the time comes (yellowing, browning, cracking, etc.). The black lines will camouflage and discoloration, appearing normal. Better to see the effects of them getting old to know when to change them.

Kind of like underwear?

Haha good one