Spent the day with Dave and Eric at Triad today, what great guys! They went WAY above and beyond, helping me backdate my 75's setup, notching my rear valance, and installing their beautiful muffler. After the install I fired up the teener, and we were all disappointed to hear an exhaust leak (caused by the less than perfect h/e pipes I'd brought to do the backdating). Again, Dave and Eric went way beyond what was required of them, putting the car back up on the lift, removing half of the exhaust system they'd just installed, fixed the leak and put a smile on my face. All of this, mind you, for just the price of the muffler! Great, great guys.

One of the other "vendors" here that builds and sells an exhast product has been making it a point to target the Triad system with comments like this, and I quote:

"We had one of those in our shop recently too. There isn't anything I liked about it.
IMO they're fugly, loud, and mediocre design. YMMV"

I don't understand the reasoning behind this (and other similar comments made in most exhaust related threads), as this vendor's muffler is more than twice the price of the Triad, meaning that it's not really a competing product (at least as far as price is concerned). All I can figure is that he must be so frustrated trying to explain to someone why on earth they need to spend twice the money for his product, that he's resorted to "mud slinging"... It's bothersome, and as classy as Dave and Eric are, they've chosen not to reply, but I'm not that classy, so I will

AT ANY RATE, the Triad product looks great, SOUNDS fantastic, and unless someone could prove that "the other guy's" system put out SIGNIFICANTLY more power (and remember, we're talking about cars that only make 100-150hp to begin with, so what is "significant"an extra 7hp??) I couldn't justify spending the extra on his product. The mud slinging I saw on this site didn't help his cause either, for what it's worth. I had the money, just knew I'd rather spend it at Triad! After my experience with them today, I feel I made the right choice.

Chris

No pictures it didnt happen!!

Is that you i see in the white teener coming up evergreen in the morning? I guess I will see tomorrow if its has a sweet sound putting out the back.

No seriously pics?

jcl

Triad is great. It's a simple design, but it's effective. Recommend them regularly.

I like their /4 headers with stub pipes.

@Jeff, couple poor pics, will have to get better ones another day... I've got a video too, but its taking ffffffooooorrrrreeeeeevvvvveeeeerrrrr to upload...

I'm sure the build quality on it is great, but its just a bunch of glasspacks.. i've heard them before, and it's not a spectacular sound, but im biased, i pretty much dislike any muffler on stock heat exchangers...

And as per the "competing exhaust designer" who i'm gonna take a shot and say it's Chris.. he builds Stainless Steel mufflers that will last forever and never burn out like the glasspack in your triad will. His is more quiet, and hell, even sounds better.

Im not bashing anyone here, as mufflers on these cars are completely based on taste, and when it comes down to 5 hp, its gonna be all in your mind, but before you go doing the mudslinging yourself, compare the products for what they are, and what you get for the price in durability, and manufacturing materials...

For a person who cant afford to spend a bunch of money on a stainless muffler, im sure the triad is anexcellent muffler, but dont bash someone elses product because it costs more, or because he critisied a product that costs less.

I would like to see the technique used to modify the valance, it looks perfect.

@Mike, Dave just used a template (reversed view of the drivers side cutout), looked like it used a couple of the valance mounting holes to assure correct location, and cut it out without even needing to remove the valance from the car. Lots of practice makes perfect I would guess!

@Ethan, you know, the "frustrated with explaining the price difference thing" was just the only explanation I could come up with for why the other guy would repeatedly attack the Triad product without provocation or even a reply from the Triad guys. The other vendor has a great reputation, and is always very helpful on this board when it comes to answering questions. I'd just seen him kinda belittle the Triad (not unnoticed by the Triad guys, as THEY brought it up out of the blue during our "b.s.ing" on Sunday, asking me what the guy's problem was with them) and thought I'd address it. Price wasn't really a concern for me, but these guys are local, offered great service, and don't go around putting other people's products down, EVER. As far as longevity goes, I haven't read anything but praise for BOTH products, time will tell with the Triad setup. I'm not one to spare either praise OR criticism where it is deserved, so if I do run into an issue, know that I will make it known, to be fair.

Chris

Repeatedly?

I guess I've never noticed Chris ever even mention Triad. The two are entirely different products intended for different markets. So I guess your real purpose in posting this is to chastise Chris for something you perceive him to be doing? Is he not allowed to speak of them? I don't get it. if there wasn't a problem, there is now...

A simple search using the other vendor's screen name and the word Triad turns up several instances...
I also agree that the two companies may be aiming for two different markets, as you can see in my OP, which is why it befuddled me to see the other vendor saying anything about Triad.
If you have a problem, I'm sorry. I was just confused, and a little bit defensive for "the little guy", especially when they mentioned it to me out of the blue, and I had kinda noticed the same pattern they did in the other guy's comments about their product.

I'm not mentioning specific names because I don't want to say anything bad about the other product, I don't own it, so I have no ground to besmirch it (or compliment it). I don't know the other guy, and as I've said, he seems very helpful in other regards here on the world...

Chris

The statements were made within the context of discussions on the forum about something which I happen to have an informed opinion on.
I've also made comments about items offered by PMB, JWest, PMS, Weltmeister, etc. - All based on actual experience working with those products.
No "mud slinging" involved at all. I'm generally not inclined to bash other vendors but I feel free to speak up when I have an opinion about something in particular.
If another vendor has a product that I'm impressed with and consider it useful on my vehicles or those of my customers I use it and I share my enthusiasm for it.
But I'm not satisfied by many available products for 914s, and that's the motivation for much of my own development effort.

as classy as Dave and Eric are, boy have they got you buffalo`d ..
...they are a hoot though

Fair enough Chris, it just seemed incongruent with your usual helpfulness here. I'd noticed it, but didn't pay it much attention until my conversation with the triad guys yesterday. FWIW, Dave seemed very open to sending one of his setups to an independent tester, along with yours, if you ever wished to have numbers to support your product over theirs.



Chris

Congratulations on your new Triad. I too run one and am very happy with it. Your support of Triad is welcomed, but the rest, in my opinion, is unwarranted. Unless, you have tried both products, your opinion regarding them is bogus. Getting into other discussions when you have no basis is just not right, none of your business and a waste of time. Dave, Eric and Chris can handle their own discussions.

remove valance, which can be done with the bumper in place.

Take a piece of poster board cardboard and lay it over the existing opening on the drivers side, make sure it covers the top of the valance, and goes to the end of the valance.

Mark and cut the piece to fit the valance using the top and end of the valance,

Once that fits perfectly, scribe the cutout for the existing exhaust tip.
Lay your cardboard on the table and using a pair of divider, or a simple 3/8 inch spacer, draw a line that is 3/8 of an inch on the inside of your scribe line.

Cut that out.

Mark the other side by flipping the template over.
Cut the other side.

Cut the cardboard to the actual opening size (or you could easily make two templates)
Using the actual size template, scribe a mark on the passenger side, on the outside of the valance.
This is now your fold line where you will fold over (vice grips, hammer and dolly) the metal to create an opening that looks like the drivers side opening.

You really dont want just a cut with a sharp edge, you want it to fold over like the drivers side...so its a multi step process to get it right.

rich

Well, I felt that some good folks with a good product were being misrepresented and even maybe a little mistreated... I don't stand for that, you may, but I don't. I, and a few others, have told Dave not to waste his time getting involved in some Rabyesque debate, but that doesn't mean I won't stand up for them or their product when the opportunity presents itself, I consider it part of being a good human being, and a good customer. Keep in mind much of their (both Triad and Tangerine) business comes from referrals, and many folks come to places like this to look for feedback on items to help make their buying decision...

I disagree.

And now you are misrepresenting Racer Chris and Tangerine Racing who are also "good folks with a good product".

Even if Chris did slight your new friends, doing so back with no other knowledge of Chris or his parts makes you guilty of the same crime.

Quite a few folks with Triad exhaust also posted on that last thread and you are the only one who has a problem with Chris' comments.

Remember two wrongs don't make a right, but two Wrights make an airplane!

I don't think I've said anything derogatory about Racer Chris or the Tangerine product, I'm pretty sure I've stated that I'm not qualified to because I don't own it! ...I'll need to re-read what I've typed I guess...

And the whole reason this was brought up was because I wasn't the only one who had a problem with what was said... "my new friends" did as well.



Chris

Yep, theres the second time I said this same thing in my posts ^^

All I've done is GUESS at the reason why anyone would feel the need to make comments about a product THEY don't even consider a competitor.... then RacerChris posted his answer, and here we are!





Chris

Not trying to make a big deal out of it Chris, but since you don't agree with my point:

All I can figure is that he must be so frustrated trying to explain to someone why on earth they need to spend twice the money for his product, that he's resorted to "mud slinging"... .

The mud slung was by you...

What Chris posted was his opinion based on experience with both his and their system. Everybody but you and your new friends see it that way.

There is enough market for both and they do compete, but are selected for different reasons - none of which IMO are absolute HP.

No offense meant or taken Scott! I like a healthy debate more than most, and I'm also fine admitting when I'm "less correct"

Thats proving to be a pretty controversial statement by me. It was a guess at the real reason anyone would make those comments about someone who'd never said a bad word about them. Call it my opinion on tangerine's sales practices (which I have years of qualifications to base on), much like his comments were his qualified opinion about a "competitor's" product. THERE, now we're both less correct

I have got a triad. Recently restored and 02 sensor added.
Its a really nice muffler. Well built and sturdy, and better then any of the mufflers I have seen for heat exchangers. I am very happy Igot it.

I'd drop it like a hot rock if I was handed one of Chris' systems. It is a night and day difference when you can look at both close up.

I'm not aware of the specific comments made. That said, Chris has good reason to be proud of his work. Its the best I have seen for a T4, and I have seen quite a few at this point. Even his "econo" header systems are works of art.

@Zach; now THAT is a well made point about the difference between these two products, much more useful and effective than

"We had one of those in our shop recently too. There isn't anything I liked about it.
IMO they're fugly, loud, and mediocre design. YMMV"

One last thing and then I'll let this horse die. Zach builds some beautiful stuff himself in his extra time (I own one of his shift knobs, so I'm QUALIFIED to make this statement ) I don't recall EVER hearing him make disparaging comments about any other knob or pen manufacturers, and he also "has good reason to be proud of his work". Why? Because its not necessary for a true craftsman, his work speaks for itself.


Chris

FWIW I think it is awesome that Dave and Eric gave you great customer service and you are loving the product too!

I wish all businesses operated that way. These days it seems like there are fewer stories like this.... To the point we want to start a thread and give some kudos.

I've only heard great things about Triad.

This still sounds like a chance to grandstand and start a ruckus for no real good reason. Let the vendors advertise and defend their products as they choose. If you like one of their products, just say so. No need to drag negative comments in. Obviously each has their own intended market.

IBTL

I think you need to consider that the almost universal opinion is that you are the one throwing mud. Chris is entitled to his opinion and this is a forum, meaning a place to express his opinion. Throw in that on this subject, his opinion is more than just a little 'educated.'

You cannot even begin to compare the two systems as one is complete and the other just bolts to heat exchangers. Sound is an esthetic, what one person thinks is music, another will find obnoxious. Specifically, Chris is entitled to find the triad sound obnoxious without being accused of mudslinging. I think it does a great job of being a quality built economy muffler, but I don't like the sound and I don't think it does a thing for performance.

I doubt they really appreciate you throwing mud at Chris either. I'd bet they thought that conversation was in confidence...

Look. I'm willing to let this thing drift peacefully into the sunset, but if you want to keep swinging at me after I've already signed off, I'll come back at you.

Racer Chris feels the need to talk trash about Triad (for whatever reason, I don't really give a rats a$$ what his deal is) which is unfortunate and pissed me off. I've got a right to my opinion, and its no less valid just becase I'm "the only one" with it! Now, you can leave this be, or I can continue as long as the mods will allow it... you decide.

Ok, so you don't give a rats ass but it pisses you off. Makes sense. Well, ok, no it doesn't. I've only responded to this thread twice so I'd hardly call it swinging at you.

Dudes, WTF? Drop the crap and remember the positive: Triad has good stuff, and they did right. Huge props to Dave and Eric for the way they treat their customers.
Tangerine is top notch and Chris is a good guy too. No need to keep propagating the other BS that oozed out of this.

Your two "non swinging" posts.
Now, I'll explain this AGAIN to you, using small words you may find easier to understand:

1)Triad guys aren't happy with Chris' attitude towards their product, they know I'm voicing my opinion, which may or may not be different in strength and tone from their own. They are more than welcome to tell me to shut up whenever they like.

2)Chris didn't make comments only about sound, if you'll go ahead and use that search function I tried to help you with earlier you'll see that. I don't care what his motivation may be, but it pissed me off none the less (did I lose you there conedodger??)

3)This thread isn't about what YOU think of the Triad product, as I don't care what YOU think of their product. Fact is, they DO sell a full exhaust system, as Rand pointed out, and they DO show basic dyno results of their unit versus several others on their webpage www.triadwestperformance.com/ and, wow, even though YOU don't think there's any improvement, the dyno says there is.

4) I love the service and product provided to me at Triad West Performance, and I appreciate and support their decision not to get involved in the kind of b.s. that I've noted their competitor participating in.
That is all.

Ahhhh... It's been too long since we had a drama thread.



Triad is great. Tangerine Racing is great. Done deal.

WOW! No dog in this fight, (I've ALWAYS wanted to say that ), but all I can say is that you started the thread that was positive and then had to bring up a "nameless" vendor and take an unwarranted jab at him. Whether you think you did that or not, you did.

You ARE entitled to your opinion, but it appears to me you are starting to bear a striking resemblance to your avatar with your latest comments.

IBTL!

Now Mark, he did say 'that is all.' and, he knows me well enough to imply not so subtly that I am some kind of an idiot.

and @black22, didn't anyone tell you that was my self portrait??

Click to view attachment

Love that!

Glad you have a good sense of humor audio file!

Bottom line audio file, you have to ask yourself if you think your rant has done anyone any good? Me personally, I doubt that you have swayed anyone's opinion of either product. It certainly would have been more beneficial if you had just given Triad the credit they deserved and let the rest go. I must say, I had to look at the Tangerine exhaust system again, and found it awesome again. I guess you did spark some interest in that respect.

After reading this I didn't want to take sides............so I bought a Bursch.




You guys are silly!


Jeff

When I get around to installing my Triad I'll post the valance modification so everyone can check it out. The described method is as I imagined. Can I assume that at least one exhaust exit will fit into the existing cut out?

I bought my Triad as an almost new second hand unit. My heat exchangers are the 75-76 style. I understand that this is another ball of wax entirely. But, it's what I have and they are in super perfecto shape so I'll rock them until they fall off.

Mike, I have some photos of the way I did it. If you want to see them, I will post later on another thread.

I've read the initial post numerous times and don't think it comes anywhere close to a "rant", although subsequent posters turned it into that. Audio file wouldn't even name the "competitor" til after the "competitor" posted in the thread. Audio file simply posted his positive results with Triad and expressed confusion at the derogatory comments a competitor had expressed about Triad's product.

I have no dog in this fight and have a large measure of respect for both vendors based on 1st person recommendations from customers of both.

Bottom line, as you put it, is that IMO audio file did nothing wrong and has been unfairly maligned in a thread that third parties spiraled into a bash fest.

You nailed it with this line Marc. Both make GREAT products. Both have been very good to the community. The 914world wouldn't be the same without them. It's all good.

Fuch this , I will settle this once and for all. Now, BOTH of you vendors send me one of your best set ups, I will install each of them on one of my cars and the out of both of them until either the exhaust system or the car falls apart. Once this happens, I will report back my experiences with both systems and the DRAMATIC misunderstanding will be settled for good. Now get those exhaust systems in the mail ASAP so the testing can begin.


Shoe

I haven't been on in awhile. I've been working on my daughter's Ghia.
This guy from Washington is a pain in the ass. His discussion is not about exhaust systems, but "his bull shit right to spout-off."
His pussy hurts because no one responded with "holy shit, you are SO awesome."
I do have to say, his choice of avatars is "spot-on," because he does have his head up his ass.