My recent visit to the 914 International meet in Italy opened my eyes to some interesting differences in the 914 communities here in the USA vs Europe. I had the great pleasure of meeting and spending a few days with our very own Gustl, Johannes, Peter and many others with the 914-passion and I think that common bond is an aspect of 914 ownership that most of us are interested in. 914s are not just about the cars – its about the people.

Europe is roughly ¼ the size of the USA, and they have multiple local 914-dedicated clubs mostly organized by country – 914 clubs exist in Germany, France, Italy, England, etc. These clubs meet from time to time locally to network, socialize and promote the 914 hobby in their regions (check out their individual websites). Once a year they all get together for a major high quality International 914 event somewhere in Europe. The International meet is always well attended (limited to 100 914s and their owners!), booked/paid a year in advance, and is hosted in a different country (by the local 914 club) each year on a rotating basis. It has official support from Porsche. The European approach is very supportive, and non-competitive in the negative sense.

In the USA, we have no organized, local 914-dedicated clubs. We have no regularly (monthly-quarterly-ish) organized local 914 events. We have no annual USA National 914 event. Europe has nothing like our 914world.com forums…in a literal sense, 914world.com is THE international 914 Forum because we have many international members here. I would like to see if we can increase international participation on the forum in the future.

The USA is much larger geographically than Europe which is a challenge for holding larger national events. PCA, SCCA, and similar groups are good events for some, and not that we want to withdraw from those, but they are not an ultimate 914 venue for most of us. Thanks to the camaraderie on this Forum, we do have a series of what I will characterize as fairly regular, regional, moderate-sized events that are always fun – Red Rocks, WCR, ECR, Okteenerfest, etc. Some locales have sporadic informal 914 breakfasts, drives etc. Only when someone volunteers to host an event does it happen – I think we as 914 Owners could all really benefit with better organization and regional leadership. New 914 owners need a venue to hang out face to face, and long-time owners can share their experiences. A real world, local, in person, ‘914 Garage’ experience is one of the great things about our community.

My idea is that we form local/regional 914World Chapters to generally help better organize us and promote the 914 ownership experience on multiple levels. 914World.com will always be our playhouse. None of us wants a dues paying, card carrying, rules/regulations format and I don’t propose anything like that. The idea is intended only to be a way for 914 owners to connect locally and informally, and perhaps hold a national event in the future. I don’t see the concept as divisive, but rather as unifying us, prospering the 914 experience and being a supportive environment.

What say you?

Terrific idea Jeff!
Sign me up
David

I'm in. It would be nice to get the local 914's together more often. I know we in the bay area have been doing a breakfast from time to time, but it would be nice to expand on the effort.

I nominate Jeff Bowlsby as National Chapter President.

It does take commitment from members to stay organized. This is not always easy with life getting in the way. I am a member of the local PCA chapter but the demographic is not typical for 914 owners. Although there are many closeted 914 owners in the PCA. They often choose to drive a 911 over their 914.

If this moves forward, we may run into insurance issues on cruises and such. A wavier should be drafted for all drivers and passengers to sign to prevent the club WORLD (Sir Andy) from being liable for any injuries or damage. All drivers should be required to have auto insurance to attend any such event. Most states mandate insurance anyway.

One of the nice things about the WORLD is the un-organized, no one in charge mentality. So the chapter rules should be kept to a minimum. To get maximum participation, we should keep to a no dues focus. If an event is organized, like WCR then a registration fee may be warranted. We are all CSOB's; One of the reasons we drive a 914. But we all have a common interest.

I kinda like it, if the regions could be a subset of 914World. Individual forums like the Garage and Paddock.

A lot of what happens here is open and available without much searching, I'd hate to see it regionalized.

Even as I write, I'm changing my mind. We can all see what is going on in PNWR, the SF Bay Area, SoCal, Ontario, and, and so on that putting these events in Regions may take away from the community.

I'd be open to a So Cal Teener's group. Any of you in San Diego area?

we kinda have one already

like this http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=49283

but here's the thing..... many many friendships and relationships span regions, states, countries and continents!

splitting a lot of what goes on in the garage and sandbox into region forums might not take so well.

if it's just forming region chapters for get togethers or runs I believe we have informally done so already for the areas that have enough people to warrant it.

if this ends up with appointed/elected leaders in the regions, that could end up being a hair ball too.


this place is great because it is a non-club ... club!

no dues, no popularity contest elections, just guys/gals hanging out and bs'ing a lot and when the need arises we pitch in in so many ways for all kinds of needs.

truly a unique place, non other that I have come across have come close to here.

just my over inflated opinion!

What Jeff wrote is a good idea.
For example in Germany we have not only the 914 and 914-6 Club
much more we have local/regional groups which are not
organized in these main clubs.

In Lower Saxony I'm the contact for the local group , we have more or less regularly
meetings/breakfasts on a monthly base and normally one or two events
on a yearly base.

We are roundabout 25+ teeners in my area and you need one person which is
willing to manage the local group otherwise it will not work.


Kickoff meeting for 2014
Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment

There's a fairly good-sized group here in the LAX South Bay and Orange County area. We used to do breakfasts and BBQs a lot more when Joe Sharp was still here ... but he moved to FL

I don't know if we really need to set up any 'chapters' - just post local events in the Garage if you have something brewing ... it seems to have worked pretty good in the past

Sounds like a communist threat to me... remember, just cuz you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you!

Jeff - Have the clubs formed in Europe because of the differences in language?

The possibility of local/state/regional sections has already been in existence informally for several years. Different members have identified themselves with regions such as Northwest, Northern California, Southern California, Southwest, Midwest, etc.

The somewhat informal existing structure could be formalized and brought into existence very easily with minimum effort and rules. 914world is the common communication point for everyone including a lot to international people. Our organization would have to be defined a little differently from Europe since countries are very close together.

What about Central and South America? What about Asia and China? What about India, Down Under in "AssieLand"? What about the World? All good thoughts and possibilities.

New England.

I would be willing to work on this if other New Englanders would like to have a club of sorts.

the NE region of the 356 club does 5-10 events per year....many tech talks in the winter months at local shops, and some fun scenic driving events to a nice spot for lunch.

For New England, we have more than a few great vendors to meet, and we happen to have the Awesome cornerstone vendor of Chris Foley as well.

rich

Organizations tend to only thrive when there are people willing to organize the events. You need at least one instigator. Otherwise they fall apart, quickly.

I'd be up to help get a Socal Chapter going!!! I don't think we need to change the garage but establish the chapter areas and let those area's form and use email for their planning and goings on then post their events here. Maybe a chapter happenings/event page 914 get togethers

My 2 cents

I generally like the idea but i have a few points i'd like to make:


- It takes at least one dedicated individual to run such a chapter. Since there is no payoff, someone has to be willing to spend their free time to do this.
In the past, it has been easier to find people to organize a single event.
Finding someone who is willing to do this on a more regular basis will be harder, especially if there isn't a more formal club like structure.


- Porsche will only officially support you if you are a organized group/club. We've been through this with them before.
The fact that we don't have any structure and dues paying members does not appeal to Porsche.

I was wondering about this myself....my wife and I are thinking about Bavaria next year....we are planning a trip to EU anyway. I was wondering about better organization. I like face to face BS"ing like we have here. I always learn and have fun meeting different folks that share our addiction to these cars.


I think it is a great idea. Since Joe is in Florida and Thomas is back in Germany.....
at least for the NARP crew in So-Cal.

Watching what went on in Europe seems like fun...PCA are just totally different folks. Most of them aren't gear heads like me. Besides...we own NARP's.

I think this is a great idea. Time consuming, but great idea to bring owners together, It seems like the community drifted apart a little while ago and its now starting to get back together. Something like this could be just the kick start to get the community rockin like the old days.

Many of us have put our specific location in our profile. And a region. Perhaps it would be useful to somehow map out 914world members in the United States based upon that information. This way, when I drove through Nebraska on the way back from buying my latest 914, I could have easily looked up 914world members. Having that information would foster friendships and lines of communication and get togethers that are more difficult to navigate right now.

Paul

Having it informal as it is seems to work fine. If someone wants to run something they post it up & people hop on board. No need to have a specific "club chapter". In my opinion when things get formal then there always seems to be someone who gets in charge that is on a power trip. I see lots of events that y'all have that work out great. One I attend is the annual Hershey trip. Very laid back & cool.

If you look at what the 356 registry does they have a east coast & west coast holiday that seems to always cost a fortune to attend & is very regimented in schedule. I would hate to see the World turn into something like that. There is no oneupmanship here.

What would be the benefit of having it nationally organized with local chapters over what is done now?

+1. I was in the EAA for years and they did the same thing. I don't see how there can be any lasting developments w/o some fee's attached, though. So, a tax exempt status would be next. You'll also need to look at insurance requirements for such gatherings. Before you start in your shoes let me say that EAA dues were < $30 a year. For that we received a nice monthly publication and the benefits of club status not to mention all the great local and national events.

OK Rob, how about coming over the hill once a month and doing your bumps and pictures again, I am missing our get togethers. We did have a good thing going and was pretty much what Jeff is talking about. You could still invite the 240z guy and cars with front engine, mid engine and rear engine. Remember you have to be inclusive now a days.

Click to view attachment

Not sure of the impetus behind the European clubs…we can only guess. Hopefully someone from Europe will speak to that. I can imagine it has a lot to do with the individual country, cultural or regional identity, language and just the convenience of local groups.

The idea of forming local chapters is not to detract from our common identity with 914world…it is to reinforce our unity by just creating a slightly more organized presence on the local level in support of 914world. Like the “un-Cola”, 914world is the “un-Organization” of the 914 ownership experience and I think I am reading that we want this great thing we have to grow and prosper. Growth is important if we are to flourish. Or we can remain static, or eventually allow it to die off. We have to make the choice and that decision reflects our level of commitment.

I am not seeing any need for adding any additional layers of “rules”, “membership fees”, monthly newsletters, membership cards, funky handshakes, club tats or anything like that. No “reporting back to National” or club hazing requirements. No separate local club website. As currently, any costs for events are only one time flow-through costs related to the event. Some of the driving events I have been on have signed waivers, not a big deal.

As has been pointed out, we already have some informal local groups that have been pretty effective in holding local events. Teener Tuesday, all the regional things – WCR, ECR, MUSR, Okteenerfest, Red Rocks…these are all terrific and should/will continue. The personal relationships already established should not change because someone belongs to one chapter and not another. There will be no requirement for requesting a chapter membership change. In fact any visiting emissary from another chapter is a perfect excuse to call an impromptu meeting, if nothing else for the photo-op.

My initial thoughts are that we can first identify regions for chapters, pick a name for the chapter, and then identify a minimum 2-person volunteer co-leadership team for each chapter to share the responsibility. The chapter leaders can generate an annual plan for their chapter to get together, determine and publish dates in advance on 914world.com, and coordinate with venues when needed. That’s about all.

Many of us here have put low-key events together in the past, its easy and does not take too much time to coordinate a breakfast, a pleasure drive to a destination, or a group attendance at an interesting event. Its just that usually no one does it, or when it does happen its at the last minute. We can do a lot better than that with a little effort in preplanning. If we don’t plan anything, nothing will ever get done and we will not grow. The local chapter can determine their own schedule and set their own pace depending on their needs and interests, it just takes someone to lead, and a little organization and forethought to make it a greater experience for one and all. I don’t think it needs any more formality than that. We will all be inspired to see what the other chapter events are about when we see the photos posted.

Several individuals have already stepped forward in this thread supporting the idea of getting better organized, in being leaders, and that is encouraging. I think it will be important to have at least 2 people as co-leaders, to spread the responsibility around and not be a burden on any one person.

I am reading a generally positive interest in moving forward, and the cautious concerns about too much organization are also not only appreciated but respected and mutually shared. What I get from the spirit of the responses in this thread is that we are all generally interested in the same thing.

I think the idea of two 'leaders' is inspired. It spreads the burden, builds in continuity, promotes brainstorming and eases accountability concerns. I would suggest not even designating them as leaders or some other authoritative title, but calling them Coordinators, or some such thing. As a volunteer, a Coordinator could be 'appointed' by consensus and have the option of opting out of the position also; although if that occurs that person should seek out another member to take their place.

It also avoids the 'decisions by committee' syndrome that becomes unwieldy over time. If this becomes a workable model it would mark the first time I've ever seen an organic body organize itself without formal structure.

Good thinking Jeff!

To start off regional chapter gatherings, why not piggyback on a local PCA event? That's what is done at Hershey
Select an event, let World members know about it, meet at the event. Maybe plan a before or after gathering as well.

Of course, I can only speak for Austria - and maybe a little bit for Germany, but from my best knowlege it's just the same for all over Europe. At this part of the world, we have several clubs for everything. Every smallest village has numerous clubs for sports, cultural things, communal things, religious things, agricultural things and all other hobby related things. I live in a village of 15,000 inhabitants and we have 116 different officially registered clubs only in this village.
It's a historical grown thing, that has to do with mostly social aspects. Persons who share the same hobby organize themself in a club ...
There are several laws in my country, that only deal with this club thing. I don't know all details, but officially registered clubs have to follow some rules, but also have some benefits against other groups that "just" share the same hobby (but are not officially registered). Has something to do with the general public acceptance and furthermore with some financial aspects (officially registered clubs get easier support from the community, for example).

A short summary might say, the club thing is about doing things together (in a kind of organised way) instead of doing it alone ...

There shouldn't be a leader. Follow the PNW contingent thread. It works as well as anything can. Just start a thread and get people together. It's as simple as that. If there is interest it will work. Having it too organized would have made it a fail. We just put up a post and it didn't take much to hone it down to a meeting for the week. Use the forum as is, nothing special needs to be added. It's people, people. If you know what a forum means, you know you have it right here and now! Hell, I'm ready to have a Joes BBQ right NOW! Oh hell, it's Florida now. His icon needs a pineapple in it now.

Just post it and do it.

For my area I can say you don't need an organized club with
any fee obligations or other liabilities.
You need only one person with the hat on

We are only a group of persons with the same hobby

This loose group exists since 1986 and we have still fun.
The reason for that is that we handle all things deeply relaxed without
a must.

And only 4 persons of our group are members in one of the German 914 clubs

will there be regional soccer teams too?

I believe...............


then we could have a national all star team and go to Europe and play

the 914'ers there.... Porsche would sponsor for sure..........

make a bud light commercial too........oops.... that wont work.... no

bud light and driving connection.............

maybe a soccer pitch surrounded by 14's with their lights popped up,

illuminating the field......

it could lead to a youtube channel with advertisers .... money for parts, yeah!!

My $.02

The 912 guys already have such a segregation of regions and countries in place on their BBS. I find it makes for a break in communications in that unless a person actively engages each individual forum they will miss out on events. My transmission clinics are a prime example as I notify everyone in a certain region when I will be in the area, and for months after I get people that did not see that post as they do not frequent the forum the next region over. Our format here on world serves well for attracting people from other regions, keeping others up to date on what other members in other places are doing, even if we will not be attending.

I find little strength in segregation that makes more work to keep up with several regions.

When I lived in CA we announced our stuff in a main forum here, Pelican, etc. Joe Sharp would attract people from hours away, that could be in different regional forums due to the distance needing to be traveled. What about further fragmentation of regions? You could easily split San Diego from LA, from Central coast, from SF, from Sacramento, from..... On the East Coast you could do the same with states, or parts of states. In PA we are very divided between NSEW.

My opinion is due to my personal experience in that I was constantly attracted to different regions due to the things posted in the general forum. I only worry that segregation of regions will lead to less inclusion by outsiders. I have met many outsiders that were likewise attracted to an gathering, event, etc from similar postings.

As it stands, I dont like navigating the format of the 912bbs compared to here. There is no way I would be hearing about things in Australia in such a format.

If we can build up regional inclusion and not indirectly and unintentionally foster outsider exclusion, I am for it.

Good points Mike.

I had thought about how to post chapter events...dedicated subforums (here on 914world)...but came to the same conclusion you did. People will miss things if they are buried away somewhere.

The chapter event threads can just be posted in the main garage forum for all to see to avoid the issues you mention, just as things are now. Our event calendar can also be used, but its completely blank at the moment. I guess real 914 owners don't use calendars...

I think it's a good idea for guys to get together an enjoy the cars. But the fromat we already have is good. If an individual wants to host an "event" it can be done easily in the existing structure.
I had a drive in meet this last year, not a huge turn out, but it was fun.

I am definitely hosting a get together at my new place once I get it. Central OH with several acres of land, work shop, and neighbors far enough away so as not to be bothered by the bonfire

Echo

Only if we can have regional gang signs and fist fight when we see other groups like...MG and Triumph clubs.

If it ain't broke......


We try every year to have get-together's out this way. Sometimes we have a great turn out, sometimes we don't. Having even more specific/individual groups won't make that change. All of the regulars see the event threads and decide whether they can make it or not. As Dr Daffuq said, I am on other forums that do segregate into more localized groups and I see 2 things. The locals either participate in the local forums almost solely, or they don't bother with it and stick with the main forum. I for one hardly ever go on THE HAMB's main page, I only go on the local group However, I almost never check the Early S local forum, but am always on the main board.

will the patching in ceremony differ from region to region ?

If a member moves, do they have to re-patch in, or will they automatically be accepted ?

I like the enthusiasm. My opinion is anything that breaks people up by geographical location is a step in wrong direction. The best part of the internet is the ability to gather like minded people together regardless of location.
As for a more formal club structure I think the people who are interested in that go to the PCA. 914's have a much smaller audience and therefore less people too support the necessary overhead that comes with more structure.
To me these forums are great because it allows enthusiasts to steer the activities directly without a bunch of bureaucracy. I get enough of that at work.

Count me in if it is close to Silly Valley

Frogmut in Saratoga, California

Some would argue that it is broken. As far as i can tell all of the usual 914world events have had a noticeable drop in attendance over the last few years.

Just got back from the annual New Brunswick tour, Acadia region, attendance was down due to hurricane Arthur, but the tour was a success. All participants commented on " where are the 914's? " I feel we are accepted by the PCA crowd, but would love to be part of a teener group, New England is closest for me but I would attend some events. I would also organize a 914 event, and agree with the no formal title thing, I will just coo- ordinate an event.

Ian Stott
Moncton
Canada

when reading all these posts, I get the impression that some guys think joining some local chapters/groups/clubs (or however you would call it) would leed to any changes on 914world

why ...

the one thing needs no influence to the other thing

I join an oldtimer club in my area that has no online forum ... and it works for more than 15 years; we all have email and phones to get connected when needed

on the other hand I frequently visit 914world - without any "club activity" behind

the one thing is a local group, where everyone knows each other in person

the other thing is an online forum, where I only know a hand full of guys in person

in my opinion, both things enrich my life in any way
there is no "this or that" decision, it's fine together ...

I don't think it's broke ... it's just 'it is what it is'. People drift away as other interests or life-changing events happen. For me, home remodel projects have stolen a lot of my quality car time

Several years ago I predicted that escalating fuel prices were going to affect the turnout at a lot of events. A few folks said BS, but as it panned out, it seems to have rung true.

In the So Cal area, The OC guys hit the Cars and Coffees, the San Diego bunch have their Dawn Patrol drives and several guys to the north of me do the GMR drives, but they're posted in the Garage for all to see and anyone can attend if they so desire.

We've had folks from San Diego and Central CA show up for tech days and my lift BBQ near LAX. A lot of the same long distance folks show up at the G&R swap meet too, as well as some from NV and AZ ... some even further away. You never know who's gonna show up. If we regionalize (sp), some folks will never know something might be going on in a neighboring 'region' and miss out on a good event

there have also been quite a few long time members that sold their cars in the last year or two. Some have lost jobs and haven't been able to find steady employment, some with health issues. FWIW, I'm not at all against the idea, I just am not certain the low turnout has a lot to do with knowledge of the group. I think it has more to do with life situations.

I think there are several contributing factors:

The economy: the economy in many areas of the country has not fully recovered since the big hit in 2008. With wage stagnation, underemployment, high fuel costs, and inflation a lot of people just don't have the spare cash to put in their cars...let alone attend large gatherings. The Triumph Roadster Factory (a Triumph sports car parts vendor) hosts a regular summer party and has for years. They considered cancelling it this year due to the low number of registrations. This may be the last year they hold the party

Aging members: This is a common problem affecting all cars from the 1970's and earlier. People are interested in the cars of their youth. So, the number of people under the age of 35-40 is small. This trend will not change. While we have some young people on the forum, there aren't many

Value: We all like to see the value of our cars rise. In reality, this can sometimes be a death sentence. As values increase the collectors move in (usually more affluent older people). This reduces the number of good cars on the market and takes them out of circulation. The remaining cars are expensive to fix....which means they either languish or get restored to collector quality (once again minimizing their availability).

Then again, I could be wrong

the last post has some good points......

as to the "older' buyers ....... they are older so the cars will be back in

circulation sooner or later.............. later, hopefully, for me; not that

my 14 is a collector car.


one could say that they are the best custodians of the cars.

Take a look at the Northeast Get Together Forum Of the last 8 events, I've listed 4 and Ray listed 3 with 4400 views and 14 replies. There's your problem.

Not enough event listing and not enough interested people in listed events. If you've purchased a car to drive or show, then why aren't you doing it?

I like the idea of local/regional 914 clubs. This is something I've toyed with over the last couple of years. I live in Oakland which is in Northern California of course. I've owned a couple of 914's for about 3 years now. In that time I've only gotten to know a couple of other 914 owners which is disappointing. I thought I'd know 10-15 folks by now but it just never happens. I have attended the monthly informal 911 gatherings at EASY in Emeryville several times and that is a very cohesive group of friendly Porsche enthusiasts. From what I have read on here it seems that NorCal has one of the highest concentrations of 914's in the country yet it is a rarity if I see another 914 on the road and even more rare to actually meet their owners.

I'd be happy to join Jeff or anyone else to help get a casual club/group organized in our area. Just give me the word. I'm all in!

Sure .....