So I may regret asking for opinions because I suspect that the reactions will be all over the board but here goes...

As mentioned in another thread recently I'm new to 914's and interested in buying a very original '73-'74 2.0 or 6. Just today had an owner contact me about possibly purchasing his '73 2.0. While I'v only seen pictures of the car, I will say that, based upon the couple hundred pics and documents provided, its safe to say that this is truly a well documented survivor. One owner car until July of this year (41 yrs). The car has 44k original miles. Original paint, perfect like new interior, original porsche mats, original paint markings (even on the wheel lugs) and factory stickers in all of the right places. No rust. I suspect it is one of the more original 914's around. I have not seen the car in person yet but I've purchased a lot of original cars and I think its safe to say that this one will likely, upon complete inspection, be confirmed as a true survivor of very high quality....not just a nice original.

So...with that said, I'd like some help. What is top market for a car that is a true very high quality '73 2.0 appearance group survivor? I know you'll likely ask for pics and additional information. I don't have those to share in the moment. I believe the current owner is a member here and will likely be able to sit back and enjoy the varied comments here as much as I do...so let it rip!. What is top market for a car like this? What is the highest you have seen car like this go for....a really nice one. 30's?, 40's?, 50's?

Appreciate your input. I'm interested in the car but really need to be comfortable I'm paying top dollar for a top....but not over-the-top dollar.

Hemmings says top price paid for a 73 is 35K. Unless there is something crazy cool about the car I would say 20K to 25K tops. The insane numbers are still going to the 6s. One on ebay right now at 60K with 2 days left.

I'd say based on the Description, $25,000-$35,000

Yeah, maybe if he waits 10 years for it to appreciate

I got the same email. This gentleman is very optimistic with this asking price.

Based on ebay sales over the past 6 months, I'd put it at a ceiling of $25k. And I'm guessing it would still be a slow sell to find just the right buyer at that price. Now if it was a 74 LE..... Different story.

At $35k plus, you might as well start looking at 912's and get something truly beautiful, as well as a great investment that will appreciate faster and be far easier to sell someday. Remember, we're oddballs liking 914's. Most of the world thinks they're hideous. Truly a niche market.

Thanks. When you say that Hemmings says this....where would I find that info? I wasn't aware that they provide info like that.

Your comments make a lot of sense...especially the oddball comment. Truly few folks see the value of these cars like we might. My reaction is that your $25k is a bit light. This is truly one of those exceptional cars....not just a really nice original.

Keep the comments coming. I like this car but you all are not making it easy for me to justify buying it.

I don't agree with a bunch of points here. I know I'm an Oddball, but the World has been coming around to 914s for the last 5 years or so. We used to be looked down upon, now PCA people smile and talk to you. A lot of PCA Execs have 914s, so they don't get swept aside anymore.

I don't consider a 912 a beautiful car. It's a narrow, ill handling, underpowered wannabee. Even though 911s have gone through the roof price wise, I consider them just another car. 95 % of people couldn't tell you the model year of a particular 911, heck they may not get within 10 years on their guess.

Appearance Group cars are going to climb in price. Nicer than an LE and they look better because they aren't painted up ready to go Halloweening!

I would say the car you are describing is a $25K car, maybe a bit more if it is really nice and there is really no rust. A desirable color might push it to $27,500.

Personally, TC has a great car he just had painted and I would love that car but he would have to install the FI.

Just type in model info. You only get a limited number of inqueries on Hagerty. Choose wisely.

http://www.hemmings.com/priceguide/

http://www.hagerty.com/valuationtools/HVT/VehicleSearch

Click to view attachment
Funny,I had to google Fusion Energi Titanium.Thought it was a battery..hey it is a battery.

I started my resto nut n bolt on my 73 back in 94..
it has been down since 97....there is over 30G...
with purchase price..(documented)...
many of the parts are NOS and unobtanium...
and Still Needs Paint!!

Restoration is a long road.....and many $$$$$$...
and time time time.....

if the ad goes global...expect some European to take it home for 35G...
25g seems low to me....

If concouring...40 to 50 hours..and go win something...

this one owner..there around..tough to find..

I would spend 30g in a heartbeat as opposed to going thru what I have
over the years...

The downside...hoses/vac and brake...injection parts....push rod tube
seals...clutch and related.....fuel tank cond....etc. etc....
those all need to be addressed..and then some...
pull door panels..
pull bumpers and rockers..
seats out..carpet out....flashlight it every where!!
pull wheels ....
pull inspection cover.....
original heat xchngrz??? and Muff????
should be 4 to 5 hours for a complete inspection...but WHAT FUN!!

then come up with a price!!

BEWARE:::you will buy another one after this one, so you can really drive
the piss out of it and keep your 'baby' safe!!
'Nuff Said'...

I'm sure it's a great car. Especially if it's a car you plan on taking to your grave. However, if you ever plan on selling it. It's going to be a challenge to get your money back. Not without waiting for that one special buyer.




Says the guy selling an appearance group car. No bias there

911's (including the 912) will always be sexier and more sought after by the general car community than a 914.

While you may not prefer the look of the LE, sales show they always always always, all things being equal in condition, sell for higher prices than a LE. Let's face it, they only made 1k of them. It's a rare car. Even rarer than a 914-6.




I'm with you on the price. Again, if you were never ever ever going to sell it and money is no object then fine. But realistically, without putting yourself upside overnight, mid to high 20's. Cars are only worth what people are willing to pay, regardless of what the owner thinks it's valued at.

I'm considering TC's car too. Even though it's carbed Doesn't seem like it will ever be finished though so I continue shopping. I have a line on another 914-6 conversion that I'm 2 days away from knowing if it will be a deal or not.




Rule Number 1 when modifying, building, or restoring cars. You will almost NEVER get what you put into it. Look at these guys with 80k into a 914-6 conversion. $20k more than a real one I think we've all done it though. Some of us (cough me cough) have done it numerous times. However, it's fun and I get a lot of enjoyment out of it. Even if it's a break even or more likely a loss. I sold a 997 GT3 last year. Basically for what a stock one costs. For fear of embarrassment I won't tell you how much $ I had in the car with track upgrades but let's just say I could have got a nice 73-74 two liter car with a COA isntead

I appreciate all of the additional input. I agree completely with those who acknowledge that buying a lesser car and doing a lot of work on it will almost always cost more (both $ AND effort) than buying an absolutely pristine original for high $. In my current case I believe the car I'm looking at is absolutely superb. Certainly probably in the top 5-10% of the 914 20.'s out there. My challenge is that the current owner wants close to $49k for the car. I certainly am not critical of that fact.....more power to him. I own a '96 Twin Turbo. Paid $65k and wouldn't sell for less than $125-$135k today (but likely would not get offers that high...yet). I want the 914. Great car and seems like a great seller. In the end, I may have to respectfully bow out. I could probably get myself to $37-39k. Any higher and I suspect I'll be under water for the next 10+ years.

You'd be underwater at $35k, let alone $50k. You can't compare 993 turbo appreciation to a 914. Apples and... what's the ugliest fruit you can buy?

Apples and tomatoes? Technically its a fruit but many people don't know it or wouldn't acknowledge it.

I appreciate your comments. All of this input is very helpful.

For that Price, you would be better off buying my car and doing whatever you want to it.

I've been working putting it back together all morning - taking a break before doing a Brake Job on my F-150

I amazed people would pay this kind of money for a 4. Are these cars to drive or just garage eye candy?

Unless you're selling your F150 too, you have your priorities all wrong




Mute point. No one is paying 49k for a 14-4.

i mean $20k +

It's not a moot point. Are there actually real world sales reflecting stock 4's REGULARLY bringing 20k +, or is it just people asking for it ? I know of 2-3 completely original, highly maintained, super low mileage cars that have brought high dollars, but they are the unicorns of the car market. Stock, original, nicely maintained or well restored cars I have seen are bringing 12-20,000 tops

I know of 1.8 that went for 38K. All original 16,000 miles. Never say never. All boats rise with the tide. With 6's going crazy, 4's will only climb in price. I see no problem reaching 49K for an all original low mileage 4. In 10 years a 6 will be 100-120K.

Dave

Bingo.

Asking and actual selling prices are two different things.

I'm convinced most of these folks with the higher prices aren't really motivated to sell their cars. It's likely one of those things where if they sell at a stratospheric price... Great. And if they keep it for a while longer. Great.

I'm kicking myself for not buying a 914-6 when they were worthless. Wish I had seen that coming. Can't see the 4's ever coming anywhere near the same popularity to sheer numbers produced and that the fact it's more of a VW with an anemic drivetrain and a porsche label slapped on there

Hey.....Sixes were never worthless...

Or the market will burst just like many have done before. Gold, tech, real estate. Never say never.

$49k ! I'd be the wiser gent buying TWO 914-4 2.0L cars with that amount and they'd both get driven monthly, one every two weeks, when the roads were completely dry and saltless. But I don't like the appearance of the 914's body enough to own two - they're boxed Kharmann-Ghias - that can never have the appealing curvaceousness of any 356, 901, 904, 906, 908, 910, 911, 912, 930, 934, 935, 959, 964, 993, 996, or 997 !
914-6 GTs and the attempts at simulating them are ridiculous to me - again, for the same reason stated above:

One cannot fully curve out a rectangular box !

I'd spend my $49k on the fully curved models, most of which are faster and will appreciate eternally.
And, what color is it ? Most 914 colors are repulsive to me.
I feel I've shared enough. Hope I've helped.

P.S. Mine's a black appearance-grouped Weber-carbureted 2.0L with German-flag colored taillight lenses and Mahle alloy wheels and I've spent only about $6k on it

I have ALWAYS liked 914s and have always thought that they were a good looking car. Ugly wheels, ugly bumpers/fiberglass, and "upgrades" that some owners do to them drive me nuts. A well maintained and mechanically solid 914 is one of the, if not THE most fun cars to drive. I have not driven Ferraris or Lambos, granted, but the 914 beats a 356, 911, or 912 in my book. I don't care what people say, I love 914s.

I think a 914-4 in that price range would have to be a showroom condition car with less than 5,000 miles on the odo. There will come a time, and I think soon, when really nice and unmolested 4's will regularly go in the $20K range. 914-6s will be close to $90K+ soon. I find it amazing how many people know what a 914-6 is. People constantly ask me if I have a six "in there."

Thanks for all of the comments guys. I think based upon the input, I'm going to pass on this great car. You are likely right that the PO just isn't in that much of a hurry to sell and is therefore willing to price far above the market to see if there might be a buyer with deeper pockets than guys like me.

I'll send him a note and indicate interest if the price comes down. Otherwise I'll keep looking. Too bad....its a very sweet car.

This site rocks! A guy could make a lot of bad decisions without the good help of people here.

Can you share a few pictures of the car? I'd like to see what a $49K 914 -4 looks like.

I can pick up a very nice restored but real 6 for $50K. More than $25K for a 4 is too much. Still curious, are you looking for a car to drive or just garage eye candy?

I'm looking for a very original and clean car but I do drive them...not a lot but a couple thousand miles a year. Prefer an unrestored but impressive car. If I can get a low mile original 2.0 in great condition for $25K I'd be thrilled. Just haven't seen one yet. Would prefer all original paint and interior, under $40k miles, zero rust, documented history. Prefer orange, yellow, lime green....the 70's colors.

I'll pay good money for that car.

Are you saying we could routinely pick up nicely restored 6's for 50k or you know of a car that is priced well under market? The last few needs nothing 6's I've seen have been significantly more than that. Plenty in the 50k range, but those aren't the condition he's describing.

I too would love to see pictures of the 2.0 under consideration, I don't think that price is crazy, depending on the car. Low mileage, cared for, original paint preservation class quality cars are few and far between. I'd be tempted, but not sure I'd sell mine at that price, where would I find another? I haven't seen a car like that for sale for years, they rarely make it public. Nice original paint realistically adds 25-33%. On nice early 911's and 912's, it could be more. I sold my nicely restored 912 for 68k. Had it been original paint instead of restored, it could have easily been in he 90's, and that's over a year ago. You have to understand that nice cars don't make it to eBay or Craigslist. They sell privately or at auction, the caliber of car he is describing is a top 1% car. If you just want a nicely restored 914, mid to high 20's sounds right.

I'm curious about the 40K mile requirement (or more accurately, preference). Consider the car below. It has more than 100,000 miles on it. It's not a 2.0 but if it were, would you not consider it? Oh, and the paint is said to be original. (Click the image to super size it). BTW, the car isn't for sale, it's just being used as an example.

Click to view attachment

Mileage by far makes he least difference. All about condition, original is king. After that, year/color is more personal preference. If it were me, choices in order would be 73 2.0, 74 2.0, 73 1.7, 74 1.8.

$50 for a great restoration but I don't know if that's "market" price. I don't typically buy retail.

You are right that mileage alone isn't a great guide, but in general I've found that the best original cars are lower cars. And for those of you who have asked about this car it actually isn't ultra low miles....44k miles. But the car is ultra clean one of the best I've seen. It does need a good detailing underneath but so many of the original components and factory markings are still there. I do have a link to pics but its the owners dropbox account and I hesitate to share that link unless I knew that he would be ok.

Glad to see Dave Cheek weigh in. His car is truly beautiful and original to the max.

My 1974 1.8 liter: bought it in 2007 for 14K, put another 9K into it and then put about 200 hours into cleaning with my buddies and won a concours event last summer in Traverse City. Was offered 40K by a dealer but I did not sell figuring I'd never get another one this nice again.

Anyway: here's my deal...

My car was only "OK" maintained. Needed new clutch, resealing, blah blah blah and the engine compartment was repainted as there was corrosion. IF you bought my car today, I could tell you that it has been meticulously maintained and has been "sorted out" by Brad Mayeur. I could nitpick little things here and there but overall the car really needs nothing.

Fast forward to last year. Bought another 1.8 from a world member for 8500 and after a rebuilt tranny, new windows front and rear, a front sway bar and a ton of seals and cables and stuff stuff stuff, I now have about 18K into it. Now I realize I couldn't get the same money out of it but it's my daily summer driver and I don't care, I'm having fun with it.

So the point is, if you pay 49K you could easily drop another 10K in incidentals, brakes, seals and the like, without even batting an eye. And if it hasn't been brought to concours level, you may want to factor in all the time and Q-tips and bruised knuckles it will take to bring it up to that level.

But if you bought the car from me or Dave or Tod914, it would be worth every penny. Sorry for rambling but at least I didn't carbon copy that post upon post upon post everyone else did! LOL

Good luck. Most of all, enjoy it for what you want to get out of it.

Paul

Oh, and a lot of the truly best cars pass hands quietly and never make into the databases. When I was looking in 2007 a lot of members here helped me immensely and I had lots of names and numbers to call before I found my ride.

Paul

You beat me to that 74 1.8 by a couple days... I was going to look at it when I went to LA that next weekend. Glad it got into good hands. Happy with the 73 I ended up with though. This was before I cleaned it underneath.
Click to view attachment

Wow, glad to see I'm not the only one with a cleaning sickness!

To the original poster: time to show some pics!

Paul

Original cars are great, if you are going to put them in the garage and look at them.
Take it out and put some miles on it and you depreciate the car with every mile.
If the seller wants to price his car at a much higher price than the guides, then great, good luck and I hope you get your price and the buyer will be happy.
Also, the guides are just that,a guide. eBay, auctions and previous sales should be used as a guide. Not set in stone prices.
Craig at CAMP

this is a very good point. within every car circle the well known ones rarely are seen by public when they go up for sale. Typically the ones that are announced to the public are by dealers, or are " normal " cars. Not the uber perfect examples

Good point and I agree. Hopefully being patient and hanging around great sites like this will result in someone with one of those great cars contacting me about a potential sale. It happened with this current car but I just can't justify the asking price.

True, Craig. That's why I have to have two cars now, one to drive and one to not drive (actually I'm on the one-tankful-of-gas-per-year program). I can't sell the show car because 1. It's paid for and 2. I'd be hard pressed to find another as nice.

Paul

I wouldnt worry about that too much, when I bought mine a few years back, it was the same price as a new Civic SI or a really used Boxster (today it would be like a nicer used Boxster). I'm not afraid to drive it, just have to take care of it a little more. What's that Civic or Boxster worth today? How about my 914? Maybe mine could be worth a tiny bit more if I'd just parked it and covered it, but it's not going down from a little use. It's not a good choice for a daily driver, but miles don't hurt, as long as condition stays the same. I didn't buy it to make money, (but can't complain that the markets gone up), just figured it was so nice it wouldn't lose value and would be a blast to drive in nice weather.

Thanks to all of you for the great input. The current owner and I have exchanged several good emails about the car and our thoughts on value. In the end, we just aren't close enough at this point. Its a great car. I'll continue to look and he'll enjoy his great car for a while....and/or find a buyer at a point closer to his desired price. Perhaps we revisit it at some point or I find another one that checks all the boxes. Open to hearing about other great original cars.

Steve

Update....talking with the owner again. Nice guy. We're much closer on price now but we're still not quite there. Good news is that we're now talking in the low 30's. I know for some of you that will seem like an outrageous price for a 914....I agree but If the car is as described (many pics and documents to support the condition) then there just are not that many left.

Bit of history: bought new by a doc in July '73. Appearance group car. Bahia red, 44k original miles documented with paperwork. Copies of all original selling paperwork except the window sticker. All original paint, glass, interior, fuchs wheels (including original unused spare wheel and tire), original tools, jack, radio, carpet and mats. Interior is excellent. OEM dated replacement muffler (date '86). Engine has never been touched (original hoses), nor has trans. No rust although a dusting of surface rust in hell hole. Original battery tray with very slight rust. No rust at all in trunks. Rockers still riveted on. Would love to look under those but the car is so clean that I'm fairly confident that there is no need to drill the rivets out. I'm going to decide on my final price by tomorrow. Great car...Just not sure I am comfortable at his very top end of the market. I also know I'll regret letting this beauty get away.

Dying to hear how this transpired. Did you get the car? Rooting for you.

Deeply embarrassed to have added a dancing emoticon in previous post. Never done it before, never will do it again. Apologies to all.

Don't worry about the emoticon. Summarizes how I feel about my new purchase. Yes the owner and I reached agreement. I'll have the car in a couple of weeks. Here are a few pics.

Original914

Fantastic! Congratulations! I love seeing a dream come true.

The car looks like a home run in the photos. Might have cost you a bit more than you'd hoped to spend, but I doubt you'll ever regret it for a moment. Wishing you many happy years of driving it.

I'm on the hunt for one myself. Never owned one, but it's time. I've loved the 914 with a passion since I drove one belonging to a friend's stepdad back in high school (the Late Jurassic era, aka the 1970's).

Okay, even though I'm too old for these, I'll give you the dancing banana wearing the Napolean hat one last time: