It will work. Just not optimized curve. Find TDC on #1 before you start the chore and don't rotate the engine.

Clay & Perry -

What is it about the advance curve in the 009 that is the problem?

Total advance too much? Starts at too low rpm?

There are those who say the 009 is fine.....

or that it has no vacuum retard?

Just curious......



GN

Sitting on TDC right now........of course, no mark on 2.0.

Should be able to see the notch on the flywheel through the inspection window at the top of the transmission. Once that is lined up you could use a paint pen, fingernail polish, etc to make a TDC mark on the fan.

Ok, seeing from this chart what may be the issue.



On the 050, the advance curve is pretty linear from 1000 rpm up.

On the 090, the curve is not linear, but stays flat from 6 deg. advance at 1700 rpm to 2400 rpm where it starts to suddenly rise at 2400 rpm to 3400.

I can see where this could cause problems.

Interesting the two charts differ somewhat.......

GN

Already did that. Used small mirror to see 27 deg. BTDC red mark and go from there.....

Used paint pen.

Thanks.

It may have been mentioned, but the 009 has too much advance. What ends up happening is you end up with way too little advance down low so that you don't over advance above 3K RPM. The Mallory's that Jake use to sell were fairly linear and had 16 deg total advance (12-28).

Aaron -

Thank you.

Ok, guys. What are my alternatives if I don't want to use my 009 and don't want to belly up for the big bucks for the 123ignition.........

Suggestions, please.......

With thanks in advance.....

GN

Great chart, helps to visualize the considerations.

Hoping to NOT muddy the water here but what about something like this?

Click to view attachment

TD -

No mud at all. I looked at these and seriously considered it.....want to see the advance curve first - and see how one would keep the advance to no more than 22 deg.

Checking now to see if I can get the advance curve off of Pelican's site.......if not, I'll call them tomorrow.

On another note, I can get the Pertronix FlameThrower for $133 on Amazon - but one thing that concerns me is about 1/3 of all buyers have something wrong.......not good.......but those for whom it works rave about it.........

GN

Aaron -

The total advance is easily reduced by bending the stop tab for the weight that is attached to the spring.

Logically, with the total advance being 22 deg., a 25% reduction in that gap would result in a total advance of about 16 deg.....which would probably work fine.

Or, I could add a small spring to the two posts on the other weight - but not knowing what the result would be.....

The only problem is the flat spot between 1700 rpm and 2400 rpm (as far as advance) remains and I see no mechanical way to change that.

GN

Wondering where I could get a Bosche 009 made in Brazil - its advance curve looks perfect.

Very linear and only 20 degrees total.......

Anyone know?

GN

Found the advance curve for the Pertronix D182504 Flame Thrower Distributor:

https://photos.google.com/album/AF1QipOHpcB...HWl1g9ImZ6cMX02

Looks perfect for a 914 2.0.


GN

@Gatornapper - I have a couple

Please let us know what they say.

Have you used them? If so, what has been your experience with them?

Any other members here have experience with the Brazillian 009's? I used to spend a lot of time in Brazil and was fairly fluent in Brazillian Portuguese (upon introduction they thought I was a native) - so maybe I'll get along great with these dizzy's.......

Are yours new? PM me with what you want for one.

As Pelican doesn't open until 11am EST, I won't have an answer from them for an hour or more - but will post it for sure.

GN

If you are looking for a distributor that works well with carbs, get the stock distributor for a 74-74 1.8L L-Jet engine.

Then get this from Pertronix.

https://pertronix.com/electronic-ignition-c...;model=914#auto

Any of the three will work fine. The Ignitor I is what we have been running for years.


Put it in, set the timing to 7.5 degrees at idle. Leave both vacuum connections disconnected.

Then

Clay -

Thank you! What distributor would that be?

The Pertronix was ordered Monday and will be here next Monday.......

RE: The advance curve on the Dansk (which is now $67) - Pelican Parts does not have that information and sent me to the European supplier for the Dansk distributor.

Every indication is that the Dansk is a clone of the 009 and thus shares the advance curve of the 009........

GN

I don't know the part number, but you should be able to place a wanted to buy ad in the parts forum.

Clay

Clay -

Thanks. Talked to Pelican yesterday - they say the dizzy for the '74 1.8 is the Dansk, which is a clone of the 009........which I now have 2 of........

hmmmm.............

GN

I put a brand new Pertronix SVDA on a customer car, with the vacuum advance connected and it ran great, for about 250 miles and the Ignitor tanked. I switched to a 1.8 distributor with vacuum advance and points. This is the 3rd Ignitor that failed prematurely, I'm not a fan.

I tried to put points in the Pertronix distributor, but I couldn't make it happen

Whomever you talked to at Pelican doesn't know 914s.

There is a number on the 1.8L distributor that says 009, but it is NOT the same as the Bosch 009 distributor. The advance curve is completely different, and an L-Jet distributor has a vacuum advance.

I will check my L-Jet parts stash this weekend. I am fairly sure I have an L-Jet distributor.

Clay

This thread is practically begging for a table that lists;

Factory
Recommend non-stock or Aftermarket
Not recommended


1.7
1.8
2.0
2.0 /6
2.2 / 6
2.4 / 6
3.0 /6
3.2 /6

Perry -

Yes - their track record does not look good - something like 1/3 of those who purchase on Amazon/eBay have negative experiences.

Yes, about 2/3 have great experience.......I'll try the ignitor, but carry a spare dizzy with points.....

Thanks,

GN

Bulls-eye.

Perry -

Word seems to be that you do NOT leave the ignition ON and engine not running with these......burns up the ignitor module.

A serious design weakness that with good electronic design could easily be fixed....

A hat I wore in the long distant past was Sr. VP of an electronics company......

GN

Clay -

Do you see the '74 1.8 dizzy on either chart on Post 52 or 55?

Also, what are the three digits prior to the 009? I hear they are definitive.......

GN

The ignitor I is prone to failure with KOEO for extended periods. The ignitor II is less touchy about that, has reverse polarity protection, is more stable at high rpm, and has adaptive dwell control.

So I have a and OE dizzy that came off of a 1.8L , number 231 181 009 / 022 985 205 AA. Can anyone tell me if this is a "good" 009 or is it the one with the flat spot? Thanks!

I'm guessing, but the chart here

https://www.pelicanparts.com/techarticles/9.../914_timing.htm

along with the chart on Post 55 seem to indicate that your dizzy is the last one on the Pelican list, and different from the 178 009.....

Maybe someone who knows the 914 dizzy's better than I can help.....

GN

Jim -

Good news - makes sense Pertronix would fix that problem...

GN

UGH! search on any # of the 100 or more Pertronix threads. Its all been covered before.
I continue to use the 1847V "I" version. its cheap simple and the KOEO issue will only occur when the PU & magnet are aligned, so to avoid, DONT leave the key on & engine off

Best price yet - Dansk - says it's for '74 914 carbureted......$56....

https://www.partsgeek.com/catalog/1974/pors...istributor.html

But also says it equals Bosche 009.....

VERY INTERESTING.

A Pelican Parts forum discussion on this subject from 18 years ago.....seems the thinking on the 009 was the same way back then........

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-914...stributors.html

As you said, "The "009" mechanical advance dizzy is commonly sold at Bug shops and has a limited advance curve, designed for constant speed applications (non-automotive)."

Like generators........

From a Pelican Parts forum discussion 18 years ago....

From the Pelican Parts forum post in 2001, the dizzy you want is 0 231 181 009!

You have a "GOOD" 009! Congrats! Avoiding jealousy....... ;-)

GN

Rich -

Sorry - I'm relatively new at this 914 thing and still learning. And my tendency - obvious to all - is to keep researching something ad infinitum.....

Meanwhile, back to, "What is a 009 Dizzy?"

Apparently there are THREE.

One works fine, and was an original on the FI system. It is a:

0 231 181 009 - or 022 985 205AA

The other is the one with the flat curve, like mine, that many say is not good on a 914:

0 231 178 009 - no other number is on my dizzy, so I don't know what its other number is....

Does anyone know the numbers on the 178 009 - or the third one?

Pelican lists 4 - 914 distributors - and the last one on the list, the 205AA, is indeed an 009 - but its the 181 009....the last on their list......

https://www.pelicanparts.com/techarticles/9.../914_timing.htm

GN

GN-
I copied the dizzy part wrong. The good one is 231 181 009 / 022 905 205 AA. The VW part number is....905.... not "985".
Ray

Ray -

Thanks - I did have the correct number.

Now - anyone know where I can get one??????

Before I put a WTB in the classified section?

GN

Go with WTB. That's where I found mine for $40. I think I will install a Pertronix II and be done with it. I have had a bad experience with Pertronix III dropping sparks at idle.

Hold on here - so we are putting down for future reference that

231-178-009 is BAD

but

231 181 009 is OK?

So the 231 181 009 aka 022 905 205AA has a curve described by the 205AA part listed in the Pelican link below:

https://www.pelicanparts.com/techarticles/9.../914_timing.htm

It looks like a decent curve with no flat spot, so yes I believe that 231 181 009 is a good dizzy for carbs or L-Jet since there are no FI contacts. It is an OE part for 1.8L.

I agree - research I have done confirms that......

That there are GOOD 009's and BAD 009's is, I believe, the origin of the confusion........

And I think it is GOOD that the 914 community be aware of this......

IMHO of course,

GN

What I'd like to know is where does the 022 905 205AA number come from? or all the other 205's listed on Pelican's list?

Is it marked on the dizzy just like the 0 231 178 009 on mine? Mine has no other number....

Enquiring minds want to know.......

GN

FYI....

Click to view attachment

AH-HA!

It's a VW Part number!

The 0 231 178 009 has neither the VW nor the 022#............

GN

Wondering if at this point we shouldn't move this discussion to a Distributor thread???

GN,
That's the Bosch number 231 181 009. The VW part number is the the right of the VW logo (022 905 205 AA)

Here is a graph of the curve base on the Pelican table data for the VW 022 905 205AA aka Bosch 231 181 009

Click to view attachment

NOW it makes sense!

Thank you!

On the Pelican list, they use the VW numbers.

Now - wondering what the Bosche numbers are for the following VW numbers, ending in:

205 D
205 E&F
205 J

GN