I've searched and can only find 'Media Blasting Vs. Acid Dip' threads, so I'm hoping to get some feedback on 'Garage Stripping' methods. For those of us taking the car down to bare metal, and re-painting it in the garage/driveway/basement (long story) is there a 'best way' to get it all off before filler/primer?

I used one of those spongy wheel things attached to a drill last night on the pass-front fender and it took about an hour. I CAN'T think of doing the entire car like that. I'm not looking to punk-out on the time thing, but It'd take me a few weeks of evenings to do it with the wheel thingy.

Should I go get a bunch of 60-Grit sand disks and go at it on the grinder at a low speed? That seemed awefull abrasive.

Is chemical stripping better? I tried some Jasco that I had left over from another job and it curtled the re-spray off pretty quick, but didn't seem to phase the second coat.

For the trunks, I'm just going to rough it up and prime/paint. But the rest of the body needs to come down to the shiney stuff.

Ideas/Suggestions/Stories of Peril and Dispair?

Small propane torch and a scraper, heat gun and a scraper. Heat the finish until it bubbles and scrape.. Pretty easy and cheap.

You can use a wire brush by hand to get the recessed area's.

there is another thread on this but mar hyde tal strip 2 is the way to go, just make sure you shake it up good and have plenty of ventilation or youll pass out.

i would think a torch would warp the panels if it got too hot...

Doug, here is a good stripping method.

I owned a shop for 20 years. I had my employees strip using the torch method. I taught my son how to do it when he was 13 years old. The trick is to keep the torch away for the surface and keep it moving. We stripped the front shroud on an a 1954 Austin Healey 100-4. It's aluminum. Can't sand the paint off of aluminum because you can't tell when you hit the metal.

I don't like paint stripper. If you don't get it cleaned out from the nooks and crannies it can re-activate during paint.
It also leaves a residue. If you don't properly nuteralize it the whole job can be compermized.

To strip in the garage,I would use a chemical stripper if going to bare metal. I'm right now sanding my dads car with a D.A> and 60 grit,(40 grit will cut a lot faster if going bare) but I'm not going all the way down since it won't be a 100% car. Normally I will sandblast which if done CORRECTLY won't damage the car. Too many people use to high a pressure and/or aim directly at the panel. Sandblasting is very messy and expensive for the equipment, but also does a great job. Sanding in my opinion is the right way inside if you can. Chemical has a waiting period and as mentioned prviously has some very hazardous fumes.

There was a thread here recently about "soda blasting". It sure looked effective.


John

So I'm gathering that it's all personal preference. I kinda figured that's what I'd get out of this.

I think I'm going to use a combination. I'll use samding in the areas I can, and chemical in the areas I can't sand. I read somewhere that milk will neutralize the acid better than water, then you can go back with water to get rid of the milk smell....who knows. I'm about ready to light a match and walk from this thing...going it alone sucks some times.

Thanks for the feedback...keep the opinions coming!

You could always hose in down with salt water and let it sit outside for a couple of years. That would get the paint off too

a resto body shop that did mine had the car totally stripped in 2 days. Haul it down to a shop, spend two days of labor costs and the stripping material and let someone else doit. Worked for me!

I've done alot of complete strips and repaints in my past
bodyshop career. Chem stripper works alright, but is messy and strong fumes! It also takes alot of clean up!
I've had good luck with 6" 80grit on a DA sander. Currently in my own garage I use a Porter Cable 6"
electric DA sander hooked up to a PC triggered vacuum-
it really keeps the dust and mess to a minimum!

Good luck with your project!

rezron

ok, i see the torch method now...hm. I have used chem stripper quite a few times on different cars like my old 69 firebird. I used it to cut through the heavy paintjobs that were on it down to primer, then i da'ed the rest of that off after it all dried and wiped it down well w/ prep solvent. Never had a problem. Seems like its more money but price out a couple rolls of sandpaper and the time it takes to sand, if your going to bare metal w/o blasting it, i would chem strip then sand...works ok.

I like air powered dual action sanders.

Only car it wouldn't work on was my teener.

Seems the PO coated it in 3/16- 1/4 inch of layers of Saturn Yellow lacquer.paint.


The paint was so thick it cracked like the bottom of a dried up river bed. Rust stains were oozing from the cracks.
Stripper wouldn't touch it, the DA would melt the paint onto the sanding disk in about 15 seconds

Things I do for a car with a good hell hole and longs.

Ended up using a paint scraper and a putty knife between the layers and layers of paint, followed by the DA and a bazillion sanding disks.

Now with the factory paint, a DA is the way to go.

Not keen on a torch. Heating the metal can cause it to begin to oxidize and rust. Hafta treat the back side of a weld ya know. Some people have success with it, but it's not my choice on a car with metal that will oxidize while you look at it.

Ken

Here's what I did....

7" 50-grit on a DA sander
5" 80-grit on an orbital sander
5" 3M Spongy thing

Took it all down with the 7" sander. Just enough to take the paint off.

Then I went in with the orbital and cleaned up the left-over primer.

Take the Spongy thing, and hit the nooks and cranies that the sanders can't get.

I spent about 2.5hrs and the the entire passenger side of the car.

My wife took part of the camera to Chicago for the weekend, so I'll upload pics tomorrow.

Found the part to upload pics!

Here's a shot of a half-naked teen...from the rear. (I crack myself up)

And from up front. The garage is getting cramped with stuff...I need to start putting things back together at some point...eh?

I use a wire cup brush on a grinder, takes paint and goop off real quick. Also a great workout for your forearms, especially if you use one of the big cup brushes. Once they get spinning, they don't want to slow down. Did the area under my removed pass side fender in about a half hour.

QUOTE (type11969 @ Mar 14 2005, 08:55 AM)

I use a wire cup brush on a grinder, takes paint and goop off real quick. Also a great workout for your forearms, especially if you use one of the big cup brushes. Once they get spinning, they don't want to slow down. Did the area under my removed pass side fender in about a half hour.

The wire cup brush on the grinder is awesome. I am very interested in trying that heat gun approach though as the wire brushes do wear down and they are not cheap. One thing that I found with the wire brushes was that when they lose wires out of the brush , they can hit you and stick in you. Make sure you wear protective clothing/facemask etc.

QUOTE (balljoint @ Mar 14 2005, 10:24 AM)

QUOTE (type11969 @ Mar 14 2005, 08:55 AM) I use a wire cup brush on a grinder, takes paint and goop off real quick. Also a great workout for your forearms, especially if you use one of the big cup brushes. Once they get spinning, they don't want to slow down. Did the area under my removed pass side fender in about a half hour. The wire cup brush on the grinder is awesome. I am very interested in trying that heat gun approach though as the wire brushes do wear down and they are not cheap. One thing that I found with the wire brushes was that when they lose wires out of the brush , they can hit you and stick in you. Make sure you wear protective clothing/facemask etc.

I got back in the house one night, and my arm looked like I was doing Accu-puncture. Kinda funny...

I tried the heat/scrape thing and maybe I'm not doing it right. All I ended up with was yellow muck on fire at my feet, and then it dried to stickey yellow muck on the car that I still had to sand off.

I apologise for airing this idea in public.....

but has anyone thought about using brake fluid for this purpose. I thought it was really good at removing paint....??

Just a thought.

I've found that the wire cup brushes that have groups of wire braided together last much longer and don't throw wires as bad, the cup brushes that have all the wires seperate don't work as well, don't last as long, and throw wires like crazy.

Plus I ended up with a wire buried under my skin by my ankle .5" deep after using a loose wire cup brush. Ouch.

BTDT, Ouch!

I don't buy cheap Harbor Freight quality wire wheels and cup brushes anymore. You get what you pay for.

I should have posted this before. It's in my "rusto" thread.

There is nothing, and I mean NOTHING, that removes paint better than these things. And without tearing up the metal or overheating and warping the panels. Eastwood sells a 6" version also which would work so quickly, you won't believe it.

QUOTE (type11969 @ Mar 14 2005, 05:55 AM)

I use a wire cup brush on a grinder, takes paint and goop off real quick. Also a great workout for your forearms, especially if you use one of the big cup brushes. Once they get spinning, they don't want to slow down. Did the area under my removed pass side fender in about a half hour.

the cup brushes also are really good at heating up the panel and warping it! You may not think you have done it but you probably have.Sand it!!

I edited my post above yours Scott. The 3M pads don't warp panels either.

I'm tellin ya, NOTHING works better. You can spend 5 times longer sanding.

QUOTE (Gint @ Mar 14 2005, 10:51 AM)

I edited my post above yours Scott. The 3M pads don't warp panels either. I'm tellin ya, NOTHING works better. You can spend 5 times longer sanding.

I have used those on small areas and like them. I usually sandblast, but on a car like the one I'm doing now I sand, simply to start smoothing as I strip. This car isn't intended to be a 100% car but just a really nice weekend blaster for my folks.(Sanding down to the original paint and sealing.) If they want one to keep, I have another to do as a NICE car, A REAL nice car. If they don't want it ...I need to find a girlfriend/wife that does, so it can stay within my reach

Hey Gint, did you hook those 3m pads on a grinder or drill? I have not found an arbor for an angle grinder. Drill sucks, works good with the tiny rol-lock pads in tight spaces.

Where can I buy a bunch of those? Looks like Gint is getting them in bulk.

Doug, you are going to have fun sanding down all that bare metal so you don't have sanding scratches that come back.

We tape the seams, door gaps, etc with 1/2" masking tape, and use Aircraft Stripper. You don't have to worry about getting the panel too hot, or grinding off metal, or getting a bunch of dust everywhere. You do want to use a cartridge type respirator though.

The most important thing about using chemical stripper is to brush it on with one swipe, and don't touch it. That stuff stratifies immediately and if you brush over it, it doesn't work as well. Another thing that helps is to cover the area you've brushed with plastic film. It help force the solvents down into the paint. Brush it on and walk away for awhile, or work on another area, don't try to "help" the stripper work. The other nice thing about the stripper is it leaves a phospate coating, so you've got a little protection. We also put cardboard under the car to catch the sludge.

Unless you've got experience with torching paint off a 914, I wouldn't do that. It sounds like a great way to warp panels. But what do I know?

I wouldn't use any abrasive sanding discs beyond what Gint shows. We also use the 3M Bristle discs which come in four different grades and a few different sizes. They take the paint off but don't damage the parent metal. Any abrasive disc can cause heat warping though.

40 or 80 grit is fine on a 50's vintage Detriot body. There isn't that much metal in a 914. Unless you've got some major experience you can really do some damage with that. Besides if you grind it with 80 grit, then you've got 80 grit scratches to sand. I don't car what any body man says how great the new primer-fillers are. If you have 80 grit scratches before you paint it, eventually the filler and primer is going to shrink into those scratches, and you'll see them in the finish paint. It might take a year or two for all the solvents to bake out of the paint, but those scratches will come back to haunt you.

Using chemical strippers does provide some health and ecological challenges, but nothing I know leaves the panel as pristine conditon, and doesn't compromise the integrity.

QUOTE

But what do I know?

LOTS more than me!

I found a place locally that has the disks. I'm going to go get a few today and see how that goes. I've got an external garage that's NOT heated, and has no windows. So the chemical striping methods are tough for me to do...especially when I 'm using a propane heater, and it's 10degrees outside!

The torch method just plain didn't work for me. I scrapped that idea about 5min into it.

I'm going to go over the car with the scotch-brite pads again before I prime. I've got a bit of body-work to do first as well.

I bought ALL KINDS of PPG primer, paint, clear, hardeners, mixers, puttys, pads and anything else they said I need to 'do the job right'. We'll see if it was all worth it in a few weeks when I get ready for paint!

You can get those 3m disks from an auto paint supply house.

I read somewhere that if you cut down to metal with anything more aggressive than 220, you risk having your primer and paint shink (as there is a lot more surface area with the gouges). Dunno if that is some persons impression or real world knowledge.

I've read a LOT of different opinions on the matter. The guy at the paint store told me the primer I'm bought will fill up anything up to about 80-grit. I'm sanding it all down with 200 when I'm done with the filler. I'm roughing those areas with 50-80 before bondo. Then the whole car with 120, then 220. Then priming, then 500 then paint, wet-sand again, then paint.

I only bought a single-stage paint for this one. I don't have the skill for a 2-stage job at this point. I'm doing more for this car than any 2 owners would have done, so I don't feel too bad. If I end up re-painting in 5yrs, so be it.

Great string of information. This got me thinking....I'm thinking of a low budget paint job that'll look good. I have NO experience in this area. As far as the prep work, how far do I have to take the paint down? I just figured it would be easiest to take it down to bare metal and start fresh - right? or too much work for an average paintjob?

Those 3M disks leave a fairly fine finish as compared to how aggresive they *look*. Much less aggressive than 80 grit. It will suprise you.

You want to run them at a slow speed like on a slow electric grinder or sander/polisher. Less than 3K rpm.

QUOTE (Travis Neff Posted on Mar 14 2005 @ 01:29 PM)

You can get those 3m disks from an auto paint supply house.

Yup. That's where I get 'em. The next time (if there is a next time) I'll order some 6" units from Eastwood. I could not find 6" disks any where else.

QUOTE (CptTripps @ Mar 14 2005, 12:46 PM)

I've read a LOT of different opinions on the matter. The guy at the paint store told me the primer I'm bought will fill up anything up to about 80-grit. I'm sanding it all down with 200 when I'm done with the filler. I'm roughing those areas with 50-80 before bondo. Then the whole car with 120, then 220. Then priming, then 500 then paint, wet-sand again, then paint.

The guy that sells the paints, and even the tech for the paint company will tell you "our primer-filler will fill 80 grit scratches". I promise you these guys won't come over 18 months from now, strip your car down, and help you sand those 80 grit scratches out, reprimer the car, repaint the car, and pay for all those expensive paints. You've got to smooth them to a finer grit, or you are going to regret it later.

The only thing I'll ever grind (on a car that is) is where filler is going to be applied, and if possible I prefer to sandblast those areas. Just my preference.

If you can feel it with your fingernail, it's going to show up later. Unless you are going to cover it with plastic.

I NEVER would try to fill 80 grit with primer. I use U-Tech for my under coats and there 2K primer surfacer does great on scratch filling (150 grit) but 80 grit is way to much to fill. The only time I put any paint directly over heavy scratches is a etch primer,then filler then epoxy then sealer. You'll get a dozen diff. opinions on the correct time to prime,fill etc. so it is just preference. I prefer a coat of etch before any mudding. I would also recommend going to 400 before priming unless you are using a high build. Sanding scratches have a way of showing through several coats of paint.

QUOTE (9146986 @ Mar 14 2005, 06:42 PM)

QUOTE (CptTripps @ Mar 14 2005, 12:46 PM) I've read a LOT of different opinions on the matter. The guy at the paint store told me the primer I'm bought will fill up anything up to about 80-grit. I'm sanding it all down with 200 when I'm done with the filler. I'm roughing those areas with 50-80 before bondo. Then the whole car with 120, then 220. Then priming, then 500 then paint, wet-sand again, then paint. The guy that sells the paints, and even the tech for the paint company will tell you "our primer-filler will fill 80 grit scratches". I promise you these guys won't come over 18 months from now, strip your car down, and help you sand those 80 grit scratches out, reprimer the car, repaint the car, and pay for all those expensive paints. You've got to smooth them to a finer grit, or you are going to regret it later. The only thing I'll ever grind (on a car that is) is where filler is going to be applied, and if possible I prefer to sandblast those areas. Just my preference. If you can feel it with your fingernail, it's going to show up later. Unless you are going to cover it with plastic.

I have *NO* intention of leaving it at 80-grit. I was just quoting the sales guy.

I'm leaving it at 50-80 where I'm filling with bondo, but that's just to help it adhere. (As reccomended by a link that was given in an earlier post.) The rest will go to 220.

I bought 8 of those 3m disks at the local shop. I got the ones on the 'Rolock' spindle. That's all they had. They are 4.5" disks. I'll let you all know how they work out tomorrow when I dig into it a little further. I'm starting the drivers-side in the afternoon. I know how long it took for the pass-side, this'll be a good comparison.

On another note...How have people in the past taken off the VIN sticker? Or do they just leave it on, and paint around it? (masked of course)

I agree...this is turning into a good thread.

QUOTE

On another note...How have people in the past taken off the VIN sticker? Or do they just leave it on, and paint around it? (masked of course)

I had it put into a big vat of acid with the rest of the tub. But that's just me...

the sticker in the door jamb went bye bye. Ive tried to save them before, just look nasty. Filling 80grit w/ high fill euro primer is no problem, Filling more than that can be a problem after it shrinks down slightly, but thats over like 40 grit scratches. Always a good idea to scuff it up w/ some 180 though first. Etch prime before each fill is alittle much i would think unless you let it sit awhile between grinding and filling.

If you aren't dipping the car, and the VIN sticker in the doorjamb is OK, mask it off and be careful around it.

It's been posted that you can get replacement doorjamb VIN stickers from Porsche. IIRC, it takes about six to eight weeks and is like $60 or something like that.

QUOTE (9146986 @ Mar 15 2005, 09:53 AM)

If you aren't dipping the car, and the VIN sticker in the doorjamb is OK, mask it off and be careful around it. It's been posted that you can get replacement doorjamb VIN stickers from Porsche. IIRC, it takes about six to eight weeks and is like $60 or something like that.

I'll mask it off and hope for the best.

Related: Is there any way to tell the EXACT DAY my car was made? I'd always had delusions of buying a 914 that was built the day I was born. 01/17/1975

Aircraft brand paint stripper works where Jasco fails to remove paint. Aircraft Brand is serius stuff (Jasco used to be good, but I think was re-formulated safer) I am surprised they sell it in crazy california, but you can pick it up at Kragens.

It will eat rubber, and plastic, so you will need many thick rubber gloves, change them often. Thin vinyl gloves offer little protection. The stuff eats paint like crazy, even tar undercoating. It will also eat your skin, and burn like fire on you, so safety glasses and skin protection are must, but it works great.

So the 3M Pads I bought with the drill attachment SUCK. Yeah, they'll get the paint off...but it takes FOREVER!

WHile at Lowes yesterday, I found the grinding-disk pads you were all talking about. BIG F$%KING DIFFERENCE! These things ROCK! BE SURE to buy the 'adaptor plate' before you just go buying disks!

For good measure, I did 2 doors, and 1/2 the hood with one disk. 5 should let you do the whole car. You'll have about $60 into everything, but it's WELL worth it. (Some Lowes have the adapter 'free' in a piggy-back package.)

I hooked mine up to my Milwaukee 10000rpm 4" grinder and it took 10min to do each door, and I was about 10min into the hood when my pad gave out. It DOES NOT grind into the metal any more than...say...300 grit sandpaper. It also leaves a real nice finish. Didn't heat up the metal any more than sanding would have. Dust was a bit heavy in areas that had filler in them, but that's to be expected.

I *WISH* I'd done the whole car this way. Would have made things MUCH easier. I'll have the whole car ready to go in about another hour of 'touch up' with these.

Pics to come...I'm being lazy right now.

QUOTE (CptTripps Posted: Mar 20 2005 @ 08:06 AM)

So the 3M Pads I bought with the drill attachment SUCK. Yeah, they'll get the paint off...but it takes FOREVER!

You got the wrong ones then. And a drill doesn't have the torque to get the job done anyway. You need to put the ones I was referring to on a electric grinder/sander/polisher and run them at a reasonably slow speed.

Oh, and,

And you aren't getting the panel hot? If you get over zealous with any abrasive disc you'll warp the metal. Just a caution Bud.

It's easy to do, and you may not realize you've done any damage until it's too late, or when you go to start blocking things out and find enough waves to surf on.

QUOTE (9146986 @ Mar 20 2005, 12:17 PM)

And you aren't getting the panel hot? If you get over zealous with any abrasive disc you'll warp the metal. Just a caution Bud. It's easy to do, and you may not realize you've done any damage until it's too late, or when you go to start blocking things out and find enough waves to surf on.

I was worried about that too...I tested it a few times with my temp gun. Never got over over 96 degrees. I took a small movie of how I was doing it...while I was doing it....kinda dangerous now that I think about it.

I'm building the pics now to upload everything.

Here's a pic of the hood...half-way through the removal.

And here's the movie of me removing some paint with the disk...

http://www.hardman.org/pix/914_progress/91...es/MVI_5721.AVI
(6.5mb - Not for the bandwidth impared)

I can't get anything but audio out of that .avi clip.

How about a pic of the 3m disks you bought and whatever it was you ended up using.

QUOTE (CptTripps @ Mar 15 2005, 12:06 PM)

Related: Is there any way to tell the EXACT DAY my car was made? I'd always had delusions of buying a 914 that was built the day I was born. 01/17/1975

Not from anything on the car, but you can send away for the Certificate of Authenticity. It should have the date of birth, and date of first sale.