Full Version: Badly fouled spark plugs
And Timothy, I did the measurements you suggested: pins 6 and 9 show 240 Ohms, while pins 7 and 8 show 150 Ohms (as stated before). So at least according to this the AFM appears to be OK. But it does not seem to make any difference! (See my previous posts...)
AFM could still be bad. If the flap is seized or hanging up, it won't operate correctly.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4nDzPI_kZ4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4nDzPI_kZ4
you need a new engine
The oil filler cap? That is not an air leak point. Removing the cap should have next to no effect on the running of your car, except for the possibility of oil splashing out.
Creating an air leak means opening a line between the intake manifold and the cylinder head, allowing extra un-metered air into the combustion chamber. IE, vacuum hoses attached to the intake plenum. There is a big one there on the 1.8 plenum you can pull off to introduce a huge air leak.
Zach
Creating an air leak means opening a line between the intake manifold and the cylinder head, allowing extra un-metered air into the combustion chamber. IE, vacuum hoses attached to the intake plenum. There is a big one there on the 1.8 plenum you can pull off to introduce a huge air leak.
Zach
I have a 1.8L.
If I pull the oil cap,or any other hose,it will die,and it will Not start.I think,going to try it right now.
My compression is 90PSI hot motor,and it runs good,burning lots of oil though.
It really seems like you have a vacuum problem,or leak.
I would never use old tired injectors after a rebuild,or after 40 years period.
My injectors looked okay,till I pulled them and saw how much they did leak by marks on them.
There is a aftermarket injector that works great on the 1.8L and its cheap,so are the sealing part for the injectors.Someone would know??/
Im a Noob,just trying to help.
Good Luck
If I pull the oil cap,or any other hose,it will die,and it will Not start.I think,going to try it right now.
My compression is 90PSI hot motor,and it runs good,burning lots of oil though.
It really seems like you have a vacuum problem,or leak.
I would never use old tired injectors after a rebuild,or after 40 years period.
My injectors looked okay,till I pulled them and saw how much they did leak by marks on them.
There is a aftermarket injector that works great on the 1.8L and its cheap,so are the sealing part for the injectors.Someone would know??/
Im a Noob,just trying to help.
Good Luck
oh, not to mention, an air leak would cause a lean condition, not rich. the only answer is a new engine.
I've been looking at your posting and all of the comments you have received. Please consider that you may have two or more issues going on that may or may not be related.
Of those to consider, the one that I am fairly certain about is that you have not properly broken in the rings. Properly done, you should have seated your rings in the first 500 miles. Actual mileage to seat rings depends on ring material. If ring material is iron, seating takes place fairly quickly. If you installed chrome rings, then seating can take a lot longer. Regardless of ring material, if you fail to seat the rings rapidly, they will build a glaze in your cylinders.
Another issue that promotes glazing is whether or not you "oiled" the cylinders before installing the pistons. Newly ringed pistons should be installed in cylinders that are properly honed and are "dry". Oiling the cylinder walls allows the rings to slide over the cylinder walls rather than to seat. Although the oil will be removed in the first few seconds of run time, you have nonetheless promoted glazing.
Once a cylinder is glazed, I do not know of a way to remove the glaze other than removing each cylinder. The glaze is not very hard, and can usually be removed with Scotchbrite. There have been suggestions in write-ups that you can run some abrasive material through your engine to rough up the glazing; but, I have never read of someone reporting back that such a scheme worked.
Which brings us back to proper engine break-in. The temptation for someone who has not rebuilt a lot of engines is to soft pedal a newly rebuilt motor. Which is exactly the reverse of the way to break in an engine.
A rebuilt engine, once started, should immediately be run up to about 2500 rpm and held at that speed (without a load) for about 10 minutes. Doing that forces the new valves and bearings to seat in properly. That first run is also the time when any debris in the engine will wash out into the oil. So, after the initial run in, you should change out the oil and filter.
The second phase of engine break-in can now be initiated. As someone posted above, you should take the car out and drive it like you stole it, limiting engine speed to about 5000 rpm. The driving cycle should include putting a high load on the engine by "bogging" the car in higher gears. Usually 3rd or 4th gear works well. The procedure is to shift into a gear and then allow engine speed to decay as car speed decreases. Then, just short of stalling, apply full throttle which will cause the engine to begin to pull out of the stall. This puts a very high pressure load on the piston rings, forcing them to move "out" into the cylinder, which promotes ring seating. Maintain full throttle until you reach the rev limit mentioned above. Repeat this "lugging" cycle about 6 or 7 times during that first run.
Then continue to drive the car "like you have stolen it" for 500 miles, paying attention to not allowing the engine to over rev (past 5000 rpm) during that period. Rapid engine acceleration is what you want, but not to exceed the rev limit. You won't hurt the engine doing this. So do maximum acceleration movement through the gears without going above the rev limit.
At the end of the 500 mile break-in period, change your oil once again (as well as your filter). Then you should be good to go until a normally scheduled oil change is due.
Another poster mentioned oils including break-in oil and brand of oil to run. The difference between break-in oil and your normal oil is that the break-in oil will be a single viscosity (usually 30 weight) and break-in oils have very high levels of zinc and phosphorus. The high zinc is required to properly break in any contact surfaces such as engine tappets running on camshafts. Once you have properly broken in an engine, at the 500 mile point, you should replace the break-in oil with your oil of choice.
Regarding oil brands, there are much better oils on the market other than Castrol. I don't want to touch off a firestorm debate on oils, but though Castrol is OK, you should look for a better product. Whatever oil you choose should have higher levels of zinc and phosphorous. Government regulations have forced oil formulators to reduce zinc and phosphorous levels to very low levels, which are OK for modern engines, but will ruin the older engines such as we run in our 914's. The zinc and phosphorous additive put into most oils is called ZDDP. which is an acronym for the chemical formula of the additive. Proper levels of ZDDP are usually 1300+ ppm, rather than the 700-900 ppm currently being run in oils meant for street use. You will find the proper ZDDP levels in oils labeled "for off road use only". Or, you can purchase Mobil 1 synthetic motorcycle oil which comes in the 20W50 weight our engines were built to use. That oil (don't recall its trade name) can be purchased at your Harley Davidson store, or over the internet. It's formulated to run in air cooled engines and has the higher ZDDP needed.
Gasoline contamination of the oil does occur during the run in period; however, to build oil volume rapidly (as you described) is an indication of something else drastically wrong having to do with your fuel management system. You are obviously running way to rich. Gasoline that has made its way into your oil system is usually at a very low rate and will vaporize as oil temperature increases and be pulled off the system by vacuum.
And finally, your statement that the car was running perfectly and then suddenly stalled indicates to me, that you have suffered some electrical or technical malfunction. But, that malfunction is more than likely divorced from engine break-in.
Of those to consider, the one that I am fairly certain about is that you have not properly broken in the rings. Properly done, you should have seated your rings in the first 500 miles. Actual mileage to seat rings depends on ring material. If ring material is iron, seating takes place fairly quickly. If you installed chrome rings, then seating can take a lot longer. Regardless of ring material, if you fail to seat the rings rapidly, they will build a glaze in your cylinders.
Another issue that promotes glazing is whether or not you "oiled" the cylinders before installing the pistons. Newly ringed pistons should be installed in cylinders that are properly honed and are "dry". Oiling the cylinder walls allows the rings to slide over the cylinder walls rather than to seat. Although the oil will be removed in the first few seconds of run time, you have nonetheless promoted glazing.
Once a cylinder is glazed, I do not know of a way to remove the glaze other than removing each cylinder. The glaze is not very hard, and can usually be removed with Scotchbrite. There have been suggestions in write-ups that you can run some abrasive material through your engine to rough up the glazing; but, I have never read of someone reporting back that such a scheme worked.
Which brings us back to proper engine break-in. The temptation for someone who has not rebuilt a lot of engines is to soft pedal a newly rebuilt motor. Which is exactly the reverse of the way to break in an engine.
A rebuilt engine, once started, should immediately be run up to about 2500 rpm and held at that speed (without a load) for about 10 minutes. Doing that forces the new valves and bearings to seat in properly. That first run is also the time when any debris in the engine will wash out into the oil. So, after the initial run in, you should change out the oil and filter.
The second phase of engine break-in can now be initiated. As someone posted above, you should take the car out and drive it like you stole it, limiting engine speed to about 5000 rpm. The driving cycle should include putting a high load on the engine by "bogging" the car in higher gears. Usually 3rd or 4th gear works well. The procedure is to shift into a gear and then allow engine speed to decay as car speed decreases. Then, just short of stalling, apply full throttle which will cause the engine to begin to pull out of the stall. This puts a very high pressure load on the piston rings, forcing them to move "out" into the cylinder, which promotes ring seating. Maintain full throttle until you reach the rev limit mentioned above. Repeat this "lugging" cycle about 6 or 7 times during that first run.
Then continue to drive the car "like you have stolen it" for 500 miles, paying attention to not allowing the engine to over rev (past 5000 rpm) during that period. Rapid engine acceleration is what you want, but not to exceed the rev limit. You won't hurt the engine doing this. So do maximum acceleration movement through the gears without going above the rev limit.
At the end of the 500 mile break-in period, change your oil once again (as well as your filter). Then you should be good to go until a normally scheduled oil change is due.
Another poster mentioned oils including break-in oil and brand of oil to run. The difference between break-in oil and your normal oil is that the break-in oil will be a single viscosity (usually 30 weight) and break-in oils have very high levels of zinc and phosphorus. The high zinc is required to properly break in any contact surfaces such as engine tappets running on camshafts. Once you have properly broken in an engine, at the 500 mile point, you should replace the break-in oil with your oil of choice.
Regarding oil brands, there are much better oils on the market other than Castrol. I don't want to touch off a firestorm debate on oils, but though Castrol is OK, you should look for a better product. Whatever oil you choose should have higher levels of zinc and phosphorous. Government regulations have forced oil formulators to reduce zinc and phosphorous levels to very low levels, which are OK for modern engines, but will ruin the older engines such as we run in our 914's. The zinc and phosphorous additive put into most oils is called ZDDP. which is an acronym for the chemical formula of the additive. Proper levels of ZDDP are usually 1300+ ppm, rather than the 700-900 ppm currently being run in oils meant for street use. You will find the proper ZDDP levels in oils labeled "for off road use only". Or, you can purchase Mobil 1 synthetic motorcycle oil which comes in the 20W50 weight our engines were built to use. That oil (don't recall its trade name) can be purchased at your Harley Davidson store, or over the internet. It's formulated to run in air cooled engines and has the higher ZDDP needed.
Gasoline contamination of the oil does occur during the run in period; however, to build oil volume rapidly (as you described) is an indication of something else drastically wrong having to do with your fuel management system. You are obviously running way to rich. Gasoline that has made its way into your oil system is usually at a very low rate and will vaporize as oil temperature increases and be pulled off the system by vacuum.
And finally, your statement that the car was running perfectly and then suddenly stalled indicates to me, that you have suffered some electrical or technical malfunction. But, that malfunction is more than likely divorced from engine break-in.
QUOTE(injunmort @ Sep 23 2016, 07:47 AM) 
you need a new engine
It is freshly rebuilt,I wonder if its something else???.
I just went out to my 74-1.8L pulled the oil cap.
Car will start,but then dies right away.
If the car is running and I take oil cap off it dies,almost instantly.
If you pull the oil cap off and it does nothing,then it makes me think you have a vacum leak,or something is pulling out oil from somewhere and trying to burn it from a vacum line hooked up wrong.
Just my 2 cents worth,again just trying to help.
^i was also trying to help. at least four diffent posts suggesting rings. the only thing that has not been verified is rings. injection works well enough to start/run car. blue smoke, 125psi compression on newly rebuilt engine is low even cold. the plugs are coked up and dry, does not appear to me to be a rich condition or plugs would be wet, pictures show dry. as stated before the oil cap has nothing to do with intake (and yes it does pulse in there due to that crankshaft rotating.) if a line was incorrectly hooked up to where it was pressurizing the crankcase, it would be blowing oil out of the breathers on the heads and oil filler, no mention of this. so it has to be the tires. new tires should fix everything.
QUOTE(injunmort @ Sep 23 2016, 10:38 AM)
^i was also trying to help. at least four diffent posts suggesting rings. the only thing that has not been verified is rings. injection works well enough to start/run car. blue smoke, 125psi compression on newly rebuilt engine is low even cold. the plugs are coked up and dry, does not appear to me to be a rich condition or plugs would be wet, pictures show dry. as stated before the oil cap has nothing to do with intake (and yes it does pulse in there due to that crankshaft rotating.) if a line was incorrectly hooked up to where it was pressurizing the crankcase, it would be blowing oil out of the breathers on the heads and oil filler, no mention of this. so it has to be the tires. new tires should fix everything.
I am just trying to help.Like You.
The fact that the car was running great,then died suddenly and would not start,does not make me think it is the motor.But i am just guessing,just like everyone else.
125 PSI is not great like you suggest,but its not bad either,I run 90 PSI.
The plugs Look exactly like my 1.8L car when I first bought my car,(wish I could find the thread.).
I replaced my injectors,seals,and connectors,it did help,running 2 sets of used 40 year old injectors seems to be a bad idea at best.
What I found was the old connectors to the injectors dont work anymore,they dont plug into the injectors tight,and caused misfires,and fouled plugs.When you plug them in 1 of the pins would slide back and not have a proper connection.(It sure made my plugs foul).
It seems he has not fixed the problem yet,so I am offering up my suggestions,nothing more.
I know running new injectors,seals and plugs for the injectors wont fix the problem,but it will help eliminate problems down the road.
Again Just trying to help,like everyone else.
Cheers. Grant
Fuel pressure has also not been tested, despite several suggestions of doing so.
--DD
--DD
How does an injector plug not making good contact foul a plug? If it doesn't make contact the injector won't fire. That's not gonna foul a plug!
QUOTE(Vacca Rabite @ Sep 23 2016, 05:43 AM)
The oil filler cap? That is not an air leak point. Removing the cap should have next to no effect on the running of your car, except for the possibility of oil splashing out.
Crazy stuff being said around here
In addition to what I said about the AFM, there something else that you can do to rule a few things out. I'm sure you have noticed the fuel ring and how the fuel loops around the engine. Disconnect the rubber hoses that attach to the CSV, and build a bypass pipe (a short section of 5/16" brake line). Attach the rubber hoses to this pipe, make sure both sides of this bypass pipe are flared so the rubber hose doesn't pop off while under pressure.
You could also take it a step further by buying some brass barb fittings and a brass T, instead of the brake line pipe. With the fittings assembled, you could have a take off for your fuel pressure gauge. It's up to you on how it's built, it's only temporary.
Not to be too cheeky but have you run it by the rebuilder?!
Hello,
I have a problem on my newly rebuilt 1.8L engine, with L-Jet.
Other slightly strange things.
a) I've noticed the car burns a lot of gas. I barely get 20 mpg in mixed city/highway driving.
b) I have about 600 miles since the rebuild, engine ran well all along.
c) The only other issue with the car is that I can not get the idle right: it seems to idle at 1800 rpm most of the time, but if the engine is well warmed up (after about 1/2 hour of driving) or if I hold off the clutch as I come to a stop until the rpm's come down to 900, it'll idle at 900. I've tried two different throttle bodies, thinking it may be the throttle that sticks, but it behaves the same way with both. I started to suspect that the distributor is sticky and does not retard the idle sometimes.
Any suggestions, highly appreciated.
Thanks,
Andrei.
QUOTE(andreic @ Sep 15 2016, 06:43 AM)
Hello,
I have a problem on my newly rebuilt 1.8L engine, with L-Jet.
Other slightly strange things.
a) I've noticed the car burns a lot of gas. I barely get 20 mpg in mixed city/highway driving.
b) I have about 600 miles since the rebuild, engine ran well all along.
c) The only other issue with the car is that I can not get the idle right: it seems to idle at 1800 rpm most of the time, but if the engine is well warmed up (after about 1/2 hour of driving) or if I hold off the clutch as I come to a stop until the rpm's come down to 900, it'll idle at 900. I've tried two different throttle bodies, thinking it may be the throttle that sticks, but it behaves the same way with both. I started to suspect that the distributor is sticky and does not retard the idle sometimes.
Any suggestions, highly appreciated.
Thanks,
Andrei.
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?act...t&id=514695.
I know this is not his problem,but this is why I wanted him to look at the connectors to the injectors.It fixed my miss,that I was unable to find.
Good Luck:
I know this is not his problem,but this is why I wanted him to look at the connectors to the injectors.It fixed my miss,that I was unable to find.
Good Luck:
aaaand , we changed the shifter knob, the car
runs great, thanks for all the help
runs great, thanks for all the help
I see I've ignited quite a few passions with my non-firing spark plugs... (Forgive the bad pun.)
I did more testing today. I discovered that I most certainly have a fuel problem: I checked the oil, and it is 1" above the high mark. This time I am certain that I put in the right amount of oil, 3 quarts exactly, and it was halfway between the high and the low mark. So my plan is to first diagnose where the excess oil (i.e. fuel) comes from, and then deal with the oil getting in the cylinders.
A neighbor who is a retired car mechanic and who has worked on Porsches for many years stopped by today. After running the car (poorly) for a couple of minutes we looked at the spark plugs, and he said that one looked like it was looking like it had run ultra rich (lots of soot), and the other three looked like they were slightly wet, but we could not determine if that was gas or oil that was making them wet. (The amount of wetness was slight. Certainly not soaked in oil.)
The plan I made with him was to try to diagnose what I can about excess fuel without running the engine, then try it with new spark plugs and see after running it a few minutes if the spark plugs give a more clear indication of what is wrong.
In the evening I did a couple more things. I bypassed the cold start valve, as Timothy suggested. I also tried to measure fuel pressure as DD suggested (the bypass of the CSV is actually a T-joint, with the leg of the T being a hook-up for a fuel pressure gauge). I don't know if I did something wrong, or something else is a bigger issue, but I did not get any reading of any fuel pressure from the gauge (stayed flat at zero), with the fuel pump running. I think the problem may be with the gauge, since I could clearly hear the fuel running through the system.
I then took out all 4 injectors and tried to see if they leak when there is pressure in the fuel system. They do not. For two of the injectors I even tried to see what happens when grounding the corresponding pin on the ECU connector, and they clearly fired up fuel. I don't know how to tell if their spray pattern was good, but they did roughly what they were supposed to do.
So now I have it down to either the CSV being stuck open (now it is bypassed so it won't matter), or the ECU having gone bad and keeping the injectors open all the time. Whatever it is, it is not a minor adjustment -- the FI system puts out a **ton** of fuel (I must have at least an extra 1-2 quarts of oil more than what I started with, and this is only after running the car for perhaps a total of 10 minutes!).
I did not dare run it with such a fouled oil. My plan for tomorrow is to change the oil (again!!), and try to run it with new spark plugs and the CSV bypassed. If it still runs rough it means the problem was not the CSV, and it is either the ECU, the AFM, or wrong fuel pressure. I have a spare ECU (which was not tested...) so next step after that is to try the spare ECU. If it behaves the same way I'll do more digging with the fuel pressure gauge and the AFM.
I have my work cut out for me... Thanks a lot to all who volunteered opinions.
I did more testing today. I discovered that I most certainly have a fuel problem: I checked the oil, and it is 1" above the high mark. This time I am certain that I put in the right amount of oil, 3 quarts exactly, and it was halfway between the high and the low mark. So my plan is to first diagnose where the excess oil (i.e. fuel) comes from, and then deal with the oil getting in the cylinders.
A neighbor who is a retired car mechanic and who has worked on Porsches for many years stopped by today. After running the car (poorly) for a couple of minutes we looked at the spark plugs, and he said that one looked like it was looking like it had run ultra rich (lots of soot), and the other three looked like they were slightly wet, but we could not determine if that was gas or oil that was making them wet. (The amount of wetness was slight. Certainly not soaked in oil.)
The plan I made with him was to try to diagnose what I can about excess fuel without running the engine, then try it with new spark plugs and see after running it a few minutes if the spark plugs give a more clear indication of what is wrong.
In the evening I did a couple more things. I bypassed the cold start valve, as Timothy suggested. I also tried to measure fuel pressure as DD suggested (the bypass of the CSV is actually a T-joint, with the leg of the T being a hook-up for a fuel pressure gauge). I don't know if I did something wrong, or something else is a bigger issue, but I did not get any reading of any fuel pressure from the gauge (stayed flat at zero), with the fuel pump running. I think the problem may be with the gauge, since I could clearly hear the fuel running through the system.
I then took out all 4 injectors and tried to see if they leak when there is pressure in the fuel system. They do not. For two of the injectors I even tried to see what happens when grounding the corresponding pin on the ECU connector, and they clearly fired up fuel. I don't know how to tell if their spray pattern was good, but they did roughly what they were supposed to do.
So now I have it down to either the CSV being stuck open (now it is bypassed so it won't matter), or the ECU having gone bad and keeping the injectors open all the time. Whatever it is, it is not a minor adjustment -- the FI system puts out a **ton** of fuel (I must have at least an extra 1-2 quarts of oil more than what I started with, and this is only after running the car for perhaps a total of 10 minutes!).
I did not dare run it with such a fouled oil. My plan for tomorrow is to change the oil (again!!), and try to run it with new spark plugs and the CSV bypassed. If it still runs rough it means the problem was not the CSV, and it is either the ECU, the AFM, or wrong fuel pressure. I have a spare ECU (which was not tested...) so next step after that is to try the spare ECU. If it behaves the same way I'll do more digging with the fuel pressure gauge and the AFM.
I have my work cut out for me... Thanks a lot to all who volunteered opinions.
the csv, of course, why didnt i think of that? wtf is a csv so that i can think of it? i just cant resist rubbernecking a trainwreck with bullshit. and since we have convenient neighbors, ask the gm engineer why you have to put fuel in the tank, i am sure it has to do with battery life. btw, definitely pull the valve train, all shpuld be revealed.
/
/
Cold Start Valve.
--DD
--DD
^your going to subscribe to this idiot?
Oh boy ...
![popcorn[1].gif](http://www.914world.com/bbs2/style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)
after 3pgs now the spark plugs are not firiing,really?
i thought he HOT SPARK or at least he claimed that
i thought he HOT SPARK or at least he claimed that
Whats in the water in the midwest?
" I see I've ignited quite a few passions with my non-firing spark plugs... (Forgive the bad pun.)"
Igniting passions does seem to be your favorite pastime.
Igniting passions does seem to be your favorite pastime.
QUOTE
I checked the oil, and it is 1" above the high mark.
That much oil in the gas can kill the bearings.
IMO you need to find a shop that KNOWS 914's well before you damage the engine enough to require a complete rebuild, if you haven't already.
QUOTE(HAM Inc @ Sep 24 2016, 08:38 AM)
That much oil in the gas can kill the bearings.
That's why I decided to change the oil before trying to run the engine again.
QUOTE
IMO you need to find a shop that KNOWS 914's well before you damage the engine enough to require a complete rebuild, if you haven't already.
Unfortunately there is no shop around the area that knows 914's well. The one guy who was knowledgeable about them (Doug at Accumoto Motorsports) retired half a year ago, and moved to Florida. So I have to rely on myself and the helpful members of the world.
The engine gives no indication that anything inside the short block is wrong, and I don't think I've run it long enough and hard enough with bad oil to do damage inside. I think at the moment the main problem is with the FI system (which I hope to be able to diagnose soon, since most things have been checked out already). Whether or not that problem caused the cylinders to glaze irreparably will have to be decided after the problem with the FI is fixed.
QUOTE(injunmort @ Sep 24 2016, 01:28 AM)
^your going to subscribe to this idiot?
I thought calling names was not allowed.????
Why bother to even post in this thread.
You have no intention of helping anyone,you make other people who are trying to help look and feel like there are idiots.
Everyone else is trying to help,.maybe not with the best suggestions but we are trying to help.
I feel sorry for you,going around with such a chip on your shoulder,must be hard to make friends or family.
^here's your participation trophy thanks for playing with everyone else that gets nothing done. . you may now return to your safe place ,
it is still the tires, not the fi or rings that causes it to smoke. the op doesn't want help to solve a problem, he wants to increase his post count.
it is still the tires, not the fi or rings that causes it to smoke. the op doesn't want help to solve a problem, he wants to increase his post count.
Sounds lie you sucked a Sea Gull into the intake on take off!
i love the statement that there is no indication that there is something wrong with shortblock. my experience tells me that heavy oil smoke would indicate something is amiss in the shortblock, and since nobody else suggested it, i will go out on a limb and suggest the rings. that is if this unicorn even exists.
I think you mean uni"con"!
QUOTE(injunmort @ Sep 24 2016, 08:34 AM)
i love the statement that there is no indication that there is something wrong with shortblock. my experience tells me that heavy oil smoke would indicate something is amiss in the shortblock, and since nobody else suggested it, i will go out on a limb and suggest the rings. that is if this unicorn even exists.
I think you have 914 World confused with Facebook. Most people are civil here.
I don't normally wade into these cesspool moments, but douche baggery is why I gave up on FB except for business posting. I would like it if assholes don't F up this place too.
QUOTE(injunmort @ Sep 23 2016, 10:38 PM)
after 3pgs now the spark plugs are not firiing,really?
That's funny, because the rest of us are reading (and replying) to a thread with the title "Badly Fouled Spark Plugs." Also, the OP asked in his original question about why his car is running rough, then posted a couple of pics on page 2 of the fouled plugs. Everyone else here is trying to help troubleshoot for someone that may have a combination of problems with their engine, and a few folks are really engaged in helping the OP find an answer. But snarking at someone you suspect may be a troll is a valid response as well, I guess.
Did you start reading the thread on page 3, or did someone wee-wee in your Wheaties yesterday?
-- Whit
Defending yourself mic?
How old is the gas? When did you last fill up? Doesn't explain gas in the oil and smoking but you may have multiple problems. Bad gas will certainly make a car run rough
mic and HAM, have read this whole thread? read pages 1-3 before you accuse med of douchebaggery, you douche bags. pg1 post 4 from me, rings. followed by others suggesting the same including HAM. the op does not adress the rings and i am the douche bag? re read then respond intelligently or i would suggest you suffer from affliction as the the op.
I was going to shy away from this train wreck, but I would like to correct two point made earlier.
High zinc in our oil is to protect the flat tappet cams.
Running a fresh rebuild for 20 minutes at 2000 rpms is to properly break in the new camshaft. No load, lots of oil splashing around.
I am a mechanic of 35 years, with MANY engine rebuilds under my belt including BMW, Corvair, Ford, Chevy and Toyota.
High zinc in our oil is to protect the flat tappet cams.
Running a fresh rebuild for 20 minutes at 2000 rpms is to properly break in the new camshaft. No load, lots of oil splashing around.
I am a mechanic of 35 years, with MANY engine rebuilds under my belt including BMW, Corvair, Ford, Chevy and Toyota.
Tbrown, I agree about both your points, but I've seen nothing in this thread to indicate any disagreement with those points. 
Reading through the thread, you have:
1. Black sooty plugs
2. Blue smoke out the tailpipe when running
3. Increasing oil level in crank case
4. Occasional no run situation.
5. 125# on compression test
6. Bad gas mileage
The sooty plugs could be many things, incorrect heat range on the plugs, bad wires, bad plugs, weak spark/coil/rotor. As many others have said, when a plug is fouled, it needs to be replaced. I've even filed the firing points and for whatever reason fouled plugs rarely work right. Could also be as has been said many times too much fuel due to too high fuel pressure, or your cold start valve continues to spray creating a super rich run situation.
This is further supported by your increasing oil level. Either you have too much fuel spray or not enough spark. You need to correct/eliminate one or the other or both.
Blue smoke? RINGS...... FIrst get rid of that Castrol Crap, put in the proper Oil. Valvoline V1, Joe Gibbs, or Brad Penn. Castrol used to be a solid product, now is unreliable.
I also think that this is a new motor? It could be that they havent been seated properly, but my guess is you have trashed them with a too rich environment. What do I mean?? Well you have so much fuel in the cyls that it is seeping past your rings and getting into the oil raising the oil level and because of this the rings/cyls, maybe pistons (unlikely at this early stage) are shot...........
YUP, I'm saying that I think that even once you fix your fuel/spark issue you are looking at a ring job/rebuild. Now once you sort out the fuel/spark issue, I would change the oil and go beat on it, see if you can get the rings to seat/reseat and start working properly once they have proper lubrication and oil film on the cyls.
But if I may, you have largely ignored or rebuffed most of the input people have given you. Why bother asking?
Either way good luck!
1. Black sooty plugs
2. Blue smoke out the tailpipe when running
3. Increasing oil level in crank case
4. Occasional no run situation.
5. 125# on compression test
6. Bad gas mileage
The sooty plugs could be many things, incorrect heat range on the plugs, bad wires, bad plugs, weak spark/coil/rotor. As many others have said, when a plug is fouled, it needs to be replaced. I've even filed the firing points and for whatever reason fouled plugs rarely work right. Could also be as has been said many times too much fuel due to too high fuel pressure, or your cold start valve continues to spray creating a super rich run situation.
This is further supported by your increasing oil level. Either you have too much fuel spray or not enough spark. You need to correct/eliminate one or the other or both.
Blue smoke? RINGS...... FIrst get rid of that Castrol Crap, put in the proper Oil. Valvoline V1, Joe Gibbs, or Brad Penn. Castrol used to be a solid product, now is unreliable.
I also think that this is a new motor? It could be that they havent been seated properly, but my guess is you have trashed them with a too rich environment. What do I mean?? Well you have so much fuel in the cyls that it is seeping past your rings and getting into the oil raising the oil level and because of this the rings/cyls, maybe pistons (unlikely at this early stage) are shot...........
YUP, I'm saying that I think that even once you fix your fuel/spark issue you are looking at a ring job/rebuild. Now once you sort out the fuel/spark issue, I would change the oil and go beat on it, see if you can get the rings to seat/reseat and start working properly once they have proper lubrication and oil film on the cyls.
But if I may, you have largely ignored or rebuffed most of the input people have given you. Why bother asking?
Either way good luck!
QUOTE(The Cabinetmaker @ Sep 24 2016, 09:28 AM)
Defending yourself mic?
From what? That was my only post in this thread.
I'm just reading along...
I do kind of wonder what would cause the car to go lean, then compensate and run rich again when the OP removed the FI electrical connector for each cylinder. Could a combination of a problem with the AFM and a vacuum leak do something like that? A vacuum leak could explain why the OP was running fine, then the car crapped out completely and started running rich on all cylinders
Remember, I have no experience with FI, I'm posting this as the village idiot looking at the problem from a fool's perspective. It just seems that the above could be a part of the problem.
-- Whit
QUOTE(injunmort @ Sep 24 2016, 09:50 AM)
mic and HAM, have read this whole thread? read pages 1-3 before you accuse med of douchebaggery, you douche bags. pg1 post 4 from me, rings. followed by others suggesting the same including HAM. the op does not adress the rings and i am the douche bag? re read then respond intelligently or i would suggest you suffer from affliction as the the op.
Yep. The OP has largely ignored advise and exhibits confused headless chicken syndrome and may indeed be a clown that got banned for previous douche-baggery... but maybe he isn't. Maybe he is just a confused headless chicken.
Either way, calling the guy an idiot and castigating people for trying to help him is, well - you get the idea.
this one has turned the corner. the comp test seems to have been completed, howzabout the leak down?
QUOTE(injunmort @ Sep 24 2016, 12:50 PM)
mic and HAM, have read this whole thread? read pages 1-3 before you accuse med of douchebaggery, you douche bags. pg1 post 4 from me, rings. followed by others suggesting the same including HAM. the op does not adress the rings and i am the douche bag? re read then respond intelligently or i would suggest you suffer from affliction as the the op.
Chill dude...............
QUOTE(injunmort @ Sep 24 2016, 09:50 AM)
mic and HAM, have read this whole thread? read pages 1-3 before you accuse med of douchebaggery, you douche bags. pg1 post 4 from me, rings. followed by others suggesting the same including HAM. the op does not adress the rings and i am the douche bag? re read then respond intelligently or i would suggest you suffer from affliction as the the op.
Wow.
Project much?
You started with the snark, then went further and implied the OP is a troll. I snarked back and asked if you had a bad day yesterday, but don't think what I posted insulted you in any way. Now you are straight out calling names and insulting people.
All I did was quote you as saying that the OP didn't mention his plugs were not firing until page three of the thread. I pointed out that the thread is tilted: "Badly Fouled Spark Plugs," and that the OP posted pics of fouled, poorly firing plugs on the second page. With that title, I would expect to see non-firing spark plugs as part of the OP's problem.
and yes, I did see post four on page one. You were seriously trying to help. I think that you have convinced yourself the OP is a troll because he didn't listen to your advice about the rings. While others are still trying to help with the original question posted, you are sniping from the side and being rude.
There is a chance you are right and the OP is a troll; I still give the benefit of doubt to him. Others here seem to agree that he is serious, they want to help him solve his issues.
If you go back and read the thread, please notice that I was not the first person to respond to the unhelpful comments you were adding to the thread. I was only more direct and open in my post than the comments made before I posted.
If that makes me a douche, cool. After all, I am apparently the unwilling ambassador of the Masengillian Contingency. You should be careful you aren't becoming one of us though...from what I have seen here, you could be one of our leading citizens...
I actually feel kind of sorry for you.
It bothers you so much that the OP might be a troll that you can't let it go and ignore the thread.
It bothers you more that others are taking the OP seriously, so you question why and then you insult other forum members because they are trying to help the OP.
It must also bother you that we don't see what is so obvious to anyone with half a brain.
-- Whit
PROBLEM SOLVED!!
Sorry for the many posts, and I apologize if this has brought out some anger in some people, leading them to troll. Trust me, I was probably the most frustrated of all.
The trouble turns out to have been the ECU. After changing the oil with fresh one, and putting in new spark plugs I tried running it again, with no change whatsoever -- very rough running, no idle, blue smoke coming out.
Then I replaced the ECU as a last hope measure. And lo and behold -- suddenly running perfectly. It was still spewing a bit of blue smoke, but that corrected itself after driving it hard for about 5 minutes. I also did the "lugging" procedure recommended by Len, just in case it was needed, but the car now runs perfectly, no smoke coming out of the exhaust, exhaust smells normal, etc.
So warning to others: even though I myself had never heard of the L-Jet ECU's failing, they apparently can fail in rather weird ways (I suspect it kept some or all of the injectors wide open all the time).
At this point I only have one last question. The previous oil got fouled with gasoline; I did change the oil, but not the filter, so a small amount of fouled oil still is there in the engine. The questions are:
a) Is it OK to drive the car with this oil in for another month (I'll be putting car in storage mid-October, and usually I do an oil change just before that), or should I change the oil right away?
b) Many people said that Castrol 20W50 is not ideal for this engine. What is a recommended oil? Brad Penn 20W50? Or a straight weight oil?
Thanks a lot again for the support, especially the experts (Timothy, Len, etc.)
CAR IS RUNNING AGAIN! HURRAY!!
Sorry for the many posts, and I apologize if this has brought out some anger in some people, leading them to troll. Trust me, I was probably the most frustrated of all.
The trouble turns out to have been the ECU. After changing the oil with fresh one, and putting in new spark plugs I tried running it again, with no change whatsoever -- very rough running, no idle, blue smoke coming out.
Then I replaced the ECU as a last hope measure. And lo and behold -- suddenly running perfectly. It was still spewing a bit of blue smoke, but that corrected itself after driving it hard for about 5 minutes. I also did the "lugging" procedure recommended by Len, just in case it was needed, but the car now runs perfectly, no smoke coming out of the exhaust, exhaust smells normal, etc.
So warning to others: even though I myself had never heard of the L-Jet ECU's failing, they apparently can fail in rather weird ways (I suspect it kept some or all of the injectors wide open all the time).
At this point I only have one last question. The previous oil got fouled with gasoline; I did change the oil, but not the filter, so a small amount of fouled oil still is there in the engine. The questions are:
a) Is it OK to drive the car with this oil in for another month (I'll be putting car in storage mid-October, and usually I do an oil change just before that), or should I change the oil right away?
b) Many people said that Castrol 20W50 is not ideal for this engine. What is a recommended oil? Brad Penn 20W50? Or a straight weight oil?
Thanks a lot again for the support, especially the experts (Timothy, Len, etc.)
CAR IS RUNNING AGAIN! HURRAY!!
Would you mind mailing me your ECU, I repair them. I'm highly interested to what exactly failed on yours.
QUOTE(timothy_nd28 @ Sep 24 2016, 02:07 PM)
Would you mind mailing me your ECU, I repair them. I'm highly interested to what exactly failed on yours.
I will gladly do that. I am also curious what failed, and it would not be bad to have a spare ECU. PM me your address and I'll mail it on Monday. Also let me mnow what you expect it to cost to fix it.
Thanks for all the help!
A.
Glad to hear you found the problem. Happy motoring.
Back to our regularly scheduled programming
Back to our regularly scheduled programming
Glad you found the trouble, hope you can get out and enjoy some motoring this weekend!
--Whit
--Whit
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