uhh....

WCC AUSTRALIA anyone???

mexico?
still the west coast

QUOTE (Aaron Cox @ Apr 28 2005, 04:28 PM)

still the west coast

and Baltimore, MD is on the West Coast of Chesapeake Bay (an East Bay if ever there were one...) so let's not get *too* carried away...

and i will remind you all once again the Reno is farther west than Lost Angeles...

Vegas does have a lot to offer, but I don't know if it is the best place for a WCC.
1.) There is a lot of open desert to cross to get here.
2.) There are only short sections of twisty roads around town.
3.) Traffic really sucks heading back to Cali on Sunday.
4.) Limited number of Club members in town to help with planning.

Personally, I would rather go to Reno / Tahoe if that is a real option.
I volunteered my services just so we would have another option.
I really like the idea of moving the WCC around to as many cities as possible.
Anything 'West of the Rockies' qualifies as a potential site in my book.

How could WCC05 not be a 914club event? Without this BBS there would never have been a WCC to begin with. I don't think you could EVER get 70 914's in one place without the use of this BBS.

QUOTE (bowlsby @ Apr 28 2005, 01:25 PM)

While Vegas isn't SoCal, its near enough to be the venue when its planned for SoCal. Vegas and Portland are both 10 hour+ haul from the Bay Area, so either way... If its Vegas in 2007 (I like the 2-year look-ahead), then does the Bay Area get skipped? I think we should be looking for WCC2007 in the Bay Area and WCC2008 in Vegas...

Vegas or Portland both a days+ drive from here.

QUOTE (bondo @ Apr 28 2005, 12:45 PM)

QUOTE (andys @ Apr 28 2005, 01:40 PM) Since the last two WCC's were held in SoCal, I would just like to comment that those involved in the organizing now have some history and experience putting on "The Show." If an '06 SoCal event was organized by that same group, it would go a long way towards a smooth and well executed program. As was mentioned earlier, these kinds of events take a surprising amount of time , effort, and an inventory of contacts, to put it all together; much of which already exists. This is worth a lot, in my book. Just thought I'd toss this out for consideration. Andy WCC 04 was in norcal, and organized by a different group. I don't think anyone would be insane enough to organize 2 WCCs in a row, and I certainly wouldn't ask that of them.

You're right............Sorry, forgot to engage brain first

Andy

QUOTE (VegasRacer @ Apr 28 2005, 01:44 PM)

Vegas does have a lot to offer, but I don't know if it is the best place for a WCC. Personally, I would rather go to Reno / Tahoe if that is a real option.

Racetrack in Reno

QUOTE (jkeyzer @ Apr 28 2005, 12:28 PM)

We have made the Washington/Oregon crowd drive to our events twice now, not to mention the Canadians this year. I think we should let them rest next year and have the event in their area. It's our turn to drive.

I agree. My vote stays for Portland for a number of reasons. Its a haul for the SoCal contingent, but Its more family friendly, fewer "distractions" and will definitely be cooler.

So when is the "Official" poll thread happening?

we need one for reno vs portland

I vote Portland 05', Reno 06'. Reno is close enoughto the Bay area to be considered Norcal

QUOTE (VegasRacer @ Apr 28 2005, 01:44 PM)

Vegas does have a lot to offer, but I don't know if it is the best place for a WCC. 1.) There is a lot of open desert to cross to get here. 2.) There are only short sections of twisty roads around town. 3.) Traffic really sucks heading back to Cali on Sunday. 4.) Limited number of Club members in town to help with planning. Personally, I would rather go to Reno / Tahoe if that is a real option. I volunteered my services just so we would have another option. I really like the idea of moving the WCC around to as many cities as possible. Anything 'West of the Rockies' qualifies as a potential site in my book.

1. desert vs fields or hills? Lancaster proved people would go out to the desert.
2. Track is fine
3. How about Monday traffic?
4. 10 is about right

Other plus'
-Las Vegas hosts SEMA and many conventions throughout the year.
-Buffets are cheap
-Night life
-entertainment

I like Reno too, Hot August Nights!

Tahoe is too confined for large car groups IMHO.

Howard, speaking of WCC '05 not being a 914Club event (liability issues I suspect), what is required re: insurance, etc. Did the "gang of 12" who threw a party for 100 of their friends assume the risk? Were you able to get insurance as a broker? What would the Portland/Vegas organizers do in this regard?

Also, as I mentioned before, I think the chances of using Portland International Raceway are near zero. I am sure the chances of any piggyback with PCA Parade are absolutely zero. IF there is someone or several who wish to organize a Portland event, it will primarily be scenic touring and socializing rather than AX/track activity.

You need to remember it is called the Reno-Tahoe International Airport. Tahoe is close (45 min) and cooler. You could just shoot up to the hills and drive in a cool climate on curvy roads. Tons of scenery, fishing, mt biking, skiing, gambling, drinking, snow mobiling. My garage is so full of recreation equipment that gets used I can barely squeeze my 914 in. The new Villages at the base of every ski hill provides for plenty of lodging for those who like it cool. Reno has the affordable hotel rates and is 40 minutes to the raceway and 15 minutes to an AX venue.

Not to hijack thread....but this Sept 30th marks the 50th ann. of James Dean's fatal....I beleive the Porsche folks are planning something at the site.

Anyone here going or know of any events that weekend? I plan to go if all goes well with my 914.

QUOTE (Porsche Rescue @ Apr 28 2005, 05:33 PM)

...speaking of WCC '05 not being a 914Club event...

"the 914Club" is who, *exactly* ?

is there a membership roster? bylaws? officers? anybody who can legally sign a contract in our name or have an insurable interest? do we have a treasury?

as an entity, we don't exist, legally. we aren't a partnership, we aren't a corporation, we're just 'a bunch of guys.' (and gals...)

when i put on the event in Reno *i personally* signed the contract for catering with the Reno Hilton / National Automobile Museum and was on the line for every nickel of charges.

this legal never-neverland is going to be an impediment to our ability to promote events.
most places that *do* rent AX-suitable lots want an insurance policy in excess of $1,000,000. SCCA and PCA National worked hard and for a long time to establish relationships with insurance carriers. it's hard for 'a bunch of guys' to promote any kind of event with moving vehicles without incurring some kind of liability.

Portland is probably too far away from Phoenix for me to attend. The Bay Area is a possibility. A central West Coast location would be nice (LA, Vegas, SF). Even better is a dry location since my 914 leaks. Don't they all leak?

I like Vegas. My kids and wife really, really like Vegas (don't tell them it's not a family location or they'll think I've been lying to them all these years).

P.S. I brought my whole family to LA. So did two of the others from Phoenix. We had a blast. Do you think we could talk Howard into doing another midyear unauthorized WCC in the Fall?

Could be wrong (often am), but it is my understanding that the site admins. are the ones who said do not use 914world.com in association with WCC '05. I assume liability is the reason. Note that "914world.com" appears on shirt, rally plaque from '04, but is nowhere to be found on '05 stuff.

QUOTE (jkeyzer @ Apr 28 2005, 02:44 PM)

How could WCC05 not be a 914club event? Without this BBS there would never have been a WCC to begin with. I don't think you could EVER get 70 914's in one place without the use of this BBS.

Sorry, Jeff, bad semantics on my part.

No doubt the turnout would not have been as good if WCC05 was posted on PP or PCA.
But 914club members, not the'914world.com' held this event. There is no reference to the 'club' on our shirts, hats, license plates, dash plaques, etc. because I was not given permission to use the name or logo. The 'club' did not participate in the planning nor execution of the event (I did get permission from Jeroen to use the Orange WCC logo).

In answer to the next question, no, I don't know why, but do not believe if affected the event. Just trying to warn the next 'sucker' that he is the one throwing the party. I had to sign for and guarantee the Hotel, Track, Paramount Ranch, and food services.

In addition, I purchased a $2mil Liability policy for the event. But that type of policy won't cover the track exposure. That was the main reason I chose Willow Springs rather than an AX venue. Willow provided $5mil track coverage for ~$550 for the day.

And I don't care where it's held. If I'm still above the grass I'll be there. Austria would be perfect!

What is the cost to ship a car to Austria for a weekend and back?

Vegas Baby, Vegas!!

(Of course it helps that my In-Laws live there which makes LV built-in daycare & logging)

at this point it is 58 to 58, talk about close.....

How hard would it be to buy cones, and a timer setup for the WCC?

That way we would only need to find is a large parking lot, to setup our own AutoX?

QUOTE (Hawktel @ Apr 28 2005, 06:58 PM)

That way we would only need to find is a large parking lot, to setup our own AutoX?

you have the cart before the horse.

getting the lot is ALWAYS the hard part.

get a signed contract for the lot and the rest can happen.

Who wants to assume the liability for such an autocross? You gotta buy insurance and I think Howard is saying it can't be found. We were fortunate to be invited to join GGR PCA in '04 and they have insurance. It may, and I emphasize MAY, be possible to join an OR PCA AX event but it is a real long shot. Their schedule will not be set until Jan. 06 and that is too late for setting an '06 date. Like I said, scenic touring and socializing is probably it. And even that has some real risk issues for the organizer(s). Sounds like Howard assumed a good deal of that for us. Thank you Howard.

If we go to Vegas, we can rent the track at Pahrump (Spring Mountain Motorsports Park) inexpensively. They will provide the insurance, just like Willow Springs did.

QUOTE (Hawktel @ Apr 28 2005, 04:58 PM)

How hard would it be to buy cones

I can cover that baby.

I can make Vagas or San Diego but up to the Pacific Northwest. My $0.0002

Renting a parking lot, getting cones and stuff is easy...it's the INSURANCE.....the policy offered by PCA or POC or thru a regular track is the big hurdle.

Of course Unca Howie could probaly get a quote...."I" asked my Cousin that owns an Agency in Lancaster and he couldn't find anyone willing to write a policy for a parking lot meet....

YMMV

Scenic waterfall area
http://www.multnomahfallslodge.com/

Scenic columbia gorge highway is just one reason for visiting Portland.

QUOTE (VegasRacer @ Apr 28 2005, 11:31 AM)

The site for the previous 2 WCC's were a direct result of having someone sick enough to step up to act as host. (thanks Jeff and Howard). The dates were determined by the availability of sites and activities. I am willing to take the lead in planning a future WCC event in Vegas. There are only 2 other active Club members in Vegas. We would need A LOT of help from people out of town to pull it off. If Craig (or someone else from the PNW) is crazy enough to host the WCC for 2006, I think we should accept their offer. Having the experience of a 3rd event will make it a bit easier to plan a future WCC in Vegas. My vote = Portland in 2006, Vegas in 2007.

John,

Is the small racetrack near the Air Force base still there? I raced there several times years ago with the POC. It would be a great track for our club to use.

QUOTE (morphenspectra @ Apr 28 2005, 05:32 PM)

Scenic waterfall area http://www.multnomahfallslodge.com/ Scenic columbia gorge highway is just one reason for visiting Portland.

You guys should put a dam on that and sell the electricity to CA

Hillclimb anyone?

SOVERN (Society of Vintage Race Enthusiasts) puts on a hillclimb on the Marhill Loop road (a private road) near Portland every fall.

Sound FABULOUS! Very Vintage! Very Porsche (like 906, 910 and such)!

Odds of making it happen ... very close to 0.000.

SOVERN has big $$$ and lots of connections (or at least one very good one).

Nice pipe dream at least

Eddie

VEGAS in the SPRING and PORTLAND in the Fall ???? I really don't count cause I'm unemployed and Broke.....just as the government sees me as "not looking for a job" because my unemployment ran out months ago. Yah RIGHT!

I voted for Portland, because of the original idea of combining it with the PCA Parade. (I'd like to attend one of them in my lifetime)

I'll throw out a couple more ideas.

Reno has been mentioned. I'll add Tahoe to that. Reno/Tahoe.
(Tahoe holds a lot more appeal than Vegas or Reno.)

The other thought would be Yosemite. That place is just stunning. We'll have to see how they handle the roudys...
Maybe after Riverside Motorsports Park is open this might be a possiblilty since it is close (Merced). Talk about a Disneyland!

http://www.rmpracing.com

Map of the layout
http://www.rmpracing.com/map_popup.htm

two words.
VEGAS BABY!

That would get this flatlander out there to meet all you hooligans.

QUOTE (xitspd @ Apr 28 2005, 05:34 PM)

Is the small racetrack near the Air Force base still there?  I raced there several times years ago with the POC.  It would be a great track for our club to use.

The "small race track near the Air Force base" is now part of the Big Las Vegas Super Speedway. Their rates are out of sight. That is the main reason Rupert built his own track in Pahrump. I am confident we could get the necessary insurance to run at the Spring Mountain Motorsports Park in Pahrump. I have several well placed contacts and friends who are on the staff, including the #2 man is an old SCCA racing buddy (and 914 owner). He still has a couple of teeners on jack stands in his back yard.

I seriously doubt that we could have an autocross at ANY site without the sanction and support of a SCCA or PCA region.

Inside info - Just last week they got the final approval and the SMMSP will be expanding. The new track will be almost 4 miles long. It is scheduled to be completed by the end of the year.

wow. Look at the size of that.

QUOTE (VegasRacer @ Apr 29 2005, 02:32 AM)

I seriously doubt that we could have an autocross at ANY site without the sanction and support of a SCCA or PCA region.

As SCCA board member for my region we get asked a few times a year if other car clubs can run with us. We always welcome them, no other charge other than our normal fee for non SCCA members. Sometime they provide drinks (soda, water, no booze) and snacks. Attend a meeting or two for your area and see what you can do. To find the SCCA region near you go to www.scca.com

Wow, Portland is ahead, but not by much. Surprising how close it is.

I know I already said I would go to either place, but if it was in Portland, I could lend a helping hand since it is somewhat close.

QUOTE (Headrage @ Apr 29 2005, 12:41 AM)

What is the cost to ship a car to Austria for a weekend and back?

I would have been happy if I could have joined the WCC05 without my car

Maybe it will work next year for ME, but I'm afraid I will have to leave my teener in Austria ...

QUOTE

Maybe it will work next year for ME, but I'm afraid I will have to leave my teener in Austria ...

If you come, I'm sure somebody would loan you a car for the weekend!

QUOTE (VegasRacer @ Apr 29 2005, 03:32 AM)

It is scheduled to be completed by the end of the year.

That makes Vegas sound very inviting for 2007.

I've never driven on a track, but that one sure looks like it could be fun!

alright, let me shed some light on a few things ...

first, there is *NO* 914club. like rich said, no official club, no dues & fees, no bylaws, no officers, nada, zilch and nothing.
this is a website run by individuals who happen to be crazy enough to like those little cars.
we simply provide a platform for all you 914 nuts out there.


Howard: "WCC05 was not a 914club event. It was a party thrown by a dozen local people for their 914 friends"
right. and wrong. if you follow my description above the 914club is made of individuals and their friends, therefore WCC 05 *was* a 914club event.

Howard: "Their instructors (unpaid) really helped make our track day possible. They contributed more to WCC2005 than the 914club did."
exactly! because there is no 914club. no organization, no rulebooks, no president with connections to other porsche organizations, no event coordinator, no roadmap for putting on a WCC ...

Howard: "If 06 is to be a 914club event, then admin should handle it."
huh? the admins are just that, volunteers that keep this *website* up and running and make sure you guys get your daily 914club dosage.
none of the current admins has any experience putting on such a event. the admins don't "own" the 914club.
they don't have any special privileges. they don't get paid for their work. remember, there is no "914 Club"!
i'm not sure how an admin could have helped ...

Howard: "I had to sign for and guarantee the Hotel, Track, Paramount Ranch, and food services. In addition, I purchased a $2mil Liability policy for the event."
it is individuals like you that step up to the plate and make things happen. i applaud you for all the hard work you put in to make the WCC 05 such a great event. i applaud all the other individuals that helped you with this event, you know who you are, thank you!
and that brings me back to my first bullet point. there is no 914club!
the 914club can't help you set up WCC 06 because there is no 914club. there are certain individuals that will be able and willing to help, but don't expect help from "the club" as a organization, because there is no 914club.


am i getting my point across here?
Andy

so where did the track fees go?

QUOTE ("Z" @ Apr 29 2005, 01:01 PM)

so where did the track fees go?

seems pretty clear to me.

Howard, personally, rented the track, paid for the insurance, and then 'sublet' the right to use the facility to the subscribers who paid track fees.

QUOTE ("Z" @ Apr 29 2005, 10:01 AM)

so where did the track fees go?

from my understanding (if i heard Howard correctly) about 50% of the entrance fees went to the special olympics, the rest, together with the money from the sponsors, went into paying for the meals, events, trackfees, insurance and such.

Andy

I think keeping 914club a 'non club' is the best way to do it. We had something similar for a local RC track. The daay after we made it a 'real club' (against many of our suggestions) there was nothing but problems. It went through 3 presidents, and I think somewhere around $50K was stolen over the course of 3 years.

Keep it a website, and keep awesome people stepping up to the plate to give of their time, and you can't go wrong.

If it IS in Vegas next year, I think we all need to chip in and get the Admins (and Howard) some 'special' time at the Bunny Ranch.

Following all these discussions about what it took to put on WCC2005 makes me appreciate even more what Howard and the other organizers did. Even though I could not attend, as a 914 owner I benefit just from the fact that the event happened.

Andy's comments about no "914Club" got me to wondering - should there be a legal entity for WCC? Not 914World.com, but a separate entity like "West Coast Classic, LLC". The event would actually be put on by this organization in the future and 914World.com would be listed as a sponsor for providing the web resources for organizing and advertising the event.

I don't see that such an arrangement would change the nuts & bolts of how an event gets put together. It would still depend upon someone in a particular location who was willing to step up and lead it for a given year. What it might do is to provide the legal umbrella for when such a thing is needed.

Just a thought.

QUOTE (ErnieDV @ Apr 29 2005, 02:14 PM)

I don't see that such an arrangement would change the nuts & bolts of how an event gets put together. It would still depend upon someone in a particular location who was willing to step up and lead it for a given year. What it might do is to provide the legal umbrella for when such a thing is needed.

I think that'd be a real quick way to make a bunch of enemies out of all of us.

MHO: Keep it the way it is...

Geeez,,,,what a bunch of joke challenged yaaaahooos....