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Chi-town

Sep 12 2018, 04:41 PM

So I purchased a 74' Marathon Blue 914-4 that has been sitting for 12 years.
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The bad:
It been converted to electric back in the late 90's.
It ran 25 Optima Yellow top batteries and had a range of about 40 miles and weighed 2 tons

It has random holes cut in the front and rear divider panels.
It has rear springs so stiff I'm actually afraid to try and remove them.
The tires are melted to the dollies it's sitting on.

The Good:
It doesn't have any rust in the rockers, jack plates, or Hell Hole
It came with brand new still in the box 320i calipers and rotors
It's 97% complete
I got it for a really good price

The Project:

I have removed all of the electric conversion and it's components. I have roughly 100lbs in copper cabling, 150lb electric motor, and a load of electronics that I have no idea what to do with.
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I purchased a Subaru 3.6 H6 out of a newer Outback (256hp / 247ft/lbs). This engine has active valve timing on both cams and it will be run by a Link G4+ Fury standalone ecu to avoid the headaches of the factory Immobilizer / Can Bus systems.

I have two transmissions at the moment, a 5 speed STi with the optional factory LSD and 4:44 final drive and a 6 speed STI with the 3:90 final drive. Ideally I would like to run the 6 speed for durability and strength but fitment may be an issue (taller that 5 speed).

The mounting is what is going to be the fun part. I have access to one of Ian's cradles and a Rampage unit. My goal is to find the best in each and produce a new design for the 914 community.

Besides that I plan on leaving the patina on the outside, sprucing up the inside and driving the crap out of it.

(more pics coming shortly!)

effutuo101

Sep 12 2018, 06:47 PM

Cool! Do it!
I am just down the 5 from you. Looking forward to seeing this run!

colingreene

Sep 12 2018, 07:44 PM

whats up dude.

falcor75

Sep 12 2018, 09:54 PM

Get all the copper to a metal recycler and you'll get paid nicely.

914forme

Sep 13 2018, 01:02 PM

Rampage unit? that is a new one, would love to see pictures.

Chi-town

Sep 13 2018, 03:08 PM

Originally an Electro Automotive "Voltsporsche" conversion, then he added upgraded electronics, then the batteries died and it just sat.

amfab

Sep 13 2018, 06:30 PM

two tons?! I wonder what it felt like to drive

Chi-town

Sep 13 2018, 06:55 PM

He said he could never get it to stop well that's why he purchased the 320i brakes for it.

Chi-town

Sep 23 2018, 08:36 PM

Finally got the electric motor and side shift trans out
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Subaru STi RA 5 Speed with 4.44 final drive converted to FWD and added a torsen LSD
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I ordered the conversion hub and rear plate from Bremer in Australia. The conversion hub pit perfect, the plate not so much. Anyone had issues with this? The alighnment dowels don't line up and the bolt holes are so tight the bolts barely fit through.

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r_towle

Sep 23 2018, 08:57 PM

Let me know if you would like to sell the entire electric package, without the batteries.

Rich

Chi-town

Sep 23 2018, 09:08 PM

QUOTE(r_towle @ Sep 23 2018, 07:57 PM)

Let me know if you would like to sell the entire electric package, without the batteries.

Rich

Yes I would, PM me and we'll work a deal.

effutuo101

Sep 23 2018, 09:21 PM

Watching this thread.
I also thought about the 6speed. But only could find a 5 speed when I was building.
Chat soon

76-914

Sep 24 2018, 11:39 AM

I'd like to see your build. I'm in Temecula but I have family in your area so I get over there often. PM me your address or phone number so I can visit your build one weekend. Kent

Chi-town

Sep 27 2018, 11:43 AM

QUOTE(76-914 @ Sep 24 2018, 10:39 AM)

I'd like to see your build. I'm in Temecula but I have family in your area so I get over there often. PM me your address or phone number so I can visit your build one weekend. Kent

Once I get it a little more sorted you're more than welcome to stop by.

I'm dropping the engine and trans in with the CW914 cradle to take it over to my fab guy to start the new cradle design in the next week.

The goal is to have the new cradle designed, tested, and in production by next month.

It will be solidly mounted to the body in front and rear and use the factory Subaru mounts with a removable trans mount bar.

Aircooledfool

Sep 27 2018, 03:27 PM

QUOTE(Chi-town @ Sep 27 2018, 12:43 PM)

QUOTE(76-914 @ Sep 24 2018, 10:39 AM)

I'd like to see your build. I'm in Temecula but I have family in your area so I get over there often. PM me your address or phone number so I can visit your build one weekend. Kent

Once I get it a little more sorted you're more than welcome to stop by.

Very excited for the new cradle! Suby 3.6 ready to mount.

effutuo101

Sep 28 2018, 12:42 PM

I have one of the early CW cradles. There are a few thing I would like to do.
Looking forward to seeing your new design.

Chi-town

Sep 29 2018, 07:09 PM

Here's a good laugh for the day. Something wrong here..

Scored some Alfa Romeo GTV-6 aluminum front calipers for cheap this morning. They were kind nasty when I pulled them off but they cleaned up ok.
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JRust

Sep 29 2018, 10:26 PM

Nice on the alpha calipers? Do they have the right bolt pattern to just bolt up?

Chi-town

Sep 29 2018, 10:35 PM

QUOTE(JRust @ Sep 29 2018, 09:26 PM)

Nice on the alpha calipers? Do they have the right bolt pattern to just bolt up?

Yep, for the 911 3" bolt pattern with vented rotors. They are almost half the weight of the cast iron calipers also.

76-914

Sep 30 2018, 08:40 AM

Chi-town

Oct 1 2018, 03:34 PM

I'm putting down some part numbers and information I've gathered to help save searching and headaches for some.

Mounting

Renegade is the only commercially available cradle for the Subaru transplant at this time. They get $1000 for it and it uses the 901 trans so if you want to use the Subaru 5MT then you'll need some fab work done.

Myself and others are working on more options.

If you're into fabbing your own then check out Smallcar Specialties front mounting setup.

Coldwater914 (Ian) No Longer Exists even though his website is still functional.

If you're using stock mounts in your cradle design or have a CW914 cradle...

Flywheel Bolts (All of the EZ engines are Auto unless from Japan and then only a few MT). These fit all Subaru engines with a manual flywheel.
800610740 (x8)

Before you put that used trans together take a close look at where the release bearing slides, if it feels anything less that smooth you need one of THESE.

You can use which ever WRX clutch style fits your transmission. 2002-2005 for pull style, 2007+ for push style.

For an N/A application you shouldn't need more than a stage 1 organic and stay away from the metallic puck style clutches unless you are racing.

CV options
Subarugears makes a 108mm adapter cup to use a 911 CV which is handy if you're going 5 lug with 911 stubs and hub also.

Swayaway has custom axle shafts to go from the Subaru DOJ (inner joint) to a Porsche style outer joint.

ECU Options

For the EG33, EZ30D, and EJ series engines you can use the factory ECUs or standalone ECUs.

Keep in mind the EZ30D and EG33 only came in automatic and load calculation in the ECU looks at gear thresholds so you may not get may peak power as you probably won't get full ignition advance.

For that factory style wiring you'll want to talk to the experts HERE, they can also supply most factory connectors also.

For the EZ30R and EZ36R the factory ECU is equipped with an immobilizer circuit. At this point no one can defeat it in the tuning world. This means unless you have the necessary modules and the keys from the donor car the factory ECU is useless.

The link Fury is to me the best option at this point. It can control all the features of the EZ series engines including E-Throttle, AVCS, and AVLS. It uses factory triggers for cam and crank signals and can do full sequential ignition and fueling.

There are other standalone ECUs available that will run these engines but Link has really good support and has base maps ready for them.

That's it for now, I'll keep adding as I assemble this thins.

76-914

Oct 1 2018, 06:54 PM

QUOTE(Chi-town @ Oct 1 2018, 02:34 PM)

I'm putting down some part numbers and information I've gathered to help save searching and headaches for some.

Mounting

Renegade is the only commercially available cradle for the Subaru transplant at this time. They get $1000 for it and it uses the 901 trans so if you want to use the Subaru 5MT then you'll need some fab work done.

Myself and others are working on more options.

If you're into fabbing your own then check out Smallcar Specialties front mounting setup.

Coldwater914 (Ian) No Longer Exists even though his website is still functional.

If you're using stock mounts in your cradle design or have a CW914 cradle...

Group N Engine Mounts - These are still rubber just a harder durometer for rally use
D1010FE120 (LH)
D1010FE110 (RH)
D1010FE (5 speed)

Mounting plates needed for all H6 engines to use the Group N Mounts (EJ and EG33 not needed)
41031PA100 (NLA, source used)
41031PA110 (NLA, source used)

Flywheel Bolts (All of the EZ engines are Auto unless from Japan and then only a few MT). These fit all Subaru engines with a manual flywheel.
800610740 (x8)

Before you put that used trans together take a close look at where the release bearing slides, if it feels anything less that smooth you need one of THESE.

You can use which ever WRX clutch style fits your transmission. 2002-2005 for pull style, 2007+ for push style.

For an N/A application you shouldn't need more than a stage 1 organic and stay away from the metallic puck style clutches unless you are racing.

CV options
Subarugears makes a 108mm adapter cup to use a 911 CV which is handy if you're going 5 lug with 911 stubs and hub also.

Swayaway has custom axle shafts to go from the Subaru DOJ (inner joint) to a Porsche style outer joint.

ECU Options

For the EG33, EZ30D, and EJ series engines you can use the factory ECUs or standalone ECUs.

Keep in mind the EZ30D and EG33 only came in automatic and load calculation in the ECU looks at gear thresholds so you may not get may peak power as you probably won't get full ignition advance.

For that factory style wiring you'll want to talk to the experts HERE, they can also supply most factory connectors also.

For the EZ30 and EZ36 the factory ECU is equipped with an immobilizer circuit. At this point no one can defeat it in the tuning world. This means unless you have the necessary modules and the keys from the donor car the factory ECU is useless.

The link Fury is to me the best option at this point. It can control all the features of the EZ series engines including E-Throttle, AVCS, and AVLS. It uses factory triggers for cam and crank signals and can do full sequential ignition and fueling.

There are other standalone ECUs available that will run these engines but Link has really good support and has base maps ready for them.

That's it for now, I'll keep adding as I assemble this thins.

Exclude the "D" model from that observation.

ThePaintedMan

Oct 1 2018, 07:53 PM

You, sir, are a wealth of knowledge and a huge asset to this community. Thank you.

Chi-town

Oct 1 2018, 09:31 PM

QUOTE(76-914 @ Oct 1 2018, 05:54 PM)

Exclude the "D" model from that observation.

Fixed

Thanks, I try and share what I have.

Chi-town

Oct 1 2018, 09:45 PM

Oops dupe

76-914

Oct 2 2018, 09:47 AM

QUOTE(Chi-town @ Oct 1 2018, 08:31 PM)

QUOTE(76-914 @ Oct 1 2018, 05:54 PM)

Exclude the "D" model from that observation.

Fixed

Thanks, I try and share what I have.

I appreciate that, too. I'm always willing to learn anything Subaru.

914forme

Oct 2 2018, 07:42 PM

QUOTE(Chi-town @ Oct 1 2018, 05:34 PM)

I'm putting down some part numbers and information I've gathered to help save searching and headaches for some.

You know in about 6 months someone will need to search for this thread to find this information.

Thank you for sharing the info, iWire was a great find.

jimkelly

Oct 6 2018, 07:34 AM

Chi-town

Oct 6 2018, 09:45 AM

I looked and looked for a white one but everything out here is blue, silver or red.

76-914

Oct 6 2018, 09:48 AM

Yep, Jimbo has done an excellent job collecting Suby builds. Many times I've pulled your signature up to find who posted what. I nominate Jim as our resident Subaru Librarian.

Chi-town

Oct 13 2018, 06:35 PM

Time for the first test fit so I bolted the engine and trans together, then bolted it to the CW914 cradle.
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Then I bolted the whole mess into the car...
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Then I found out the motor mounting plates on the cradle need to move 4" forward so I pulled it back out and removed the cradle.

At least now I know which direction I'm headed with the new design.

Aircooledfool

Oct 13 2018, 06:39 PM

One step forward, two back but looks like progress!

Aircooledfool

Oct 13 2018, 06:41 PM

Does it look like the 3.6 will fit without having to cut the back of the engine bay?

76-914

Oct 13 2018, 06:49 PM

QUOTE(Chi-town @ Oct 13 2018, 05:35 PM)

Time for the first test fit so I bolted the engine and trans together, then bolted it to the CW914 cradle.

Then I bolted the whole mess into the car...
Then I found out the motor mounting plates on the cradle need to move 4" forward so I pulled it back out and removed the cradle.

At least now I know which direction I'm headed with the new design.

What's with that? Never seen one of the CW cradles. Do the output flanges not line up or are you trying to avoid a truck cut? What is the ground clearance from the bottom of the cradle?

Chi-town

Oct 13 2018, 07:12 PM

Aircooled- when I move it forward it should fit with no cutting.

76-914 - the flanges line up but the engine needs to go forward. The 108mm CV's will do 25 degrees before there's an issue.

I am trying to avoid cutting the trunk as right now the starter and clutch fork hit.

I can't give a ground clearance measurement as my car is on dollys with 4 flats lol. I can say the oil pan is flush with the floor pan.

76-914

Oct 14 2018, 07:25 AM

Yea, I worried about that also but eventually capitulated. Now I'm glad that I did. The slave cylinder is easy to access for bleeding. The cutout for the breather was avoidable but I didn't want to mess around with the intake. Look at BIGKAT83's post's. He used a Subaru starter that was indexed differently to avoid the cutout of the starter area. The solenoid sat at the 9 o'clock position, IIRC.

914forme

Oct 14 2018, 09:01 AM

Clocked starter PN is somewhere in my posts also

ChrisH also used it with success.

If it is 4" forward that slave cylinder might not be an issue.

You can also get higher degree angle 930 joints if needed. I would just for piece of mind and chrome moly cages.

Moving the the combination 4" forward will be great for the 3.2-3.6 line of engines, would work for the -4 stuff also. But then you start working with more expensive parts on the back end. 108mm stuff is not cheap, but piece of mind is worth it in my book.

Chi-town

Oct 14 2018, 03:32 PM

76-914 - Doh! I didn't even think of the Bosch type starter, I think I have one somewhere, I'll have to dig it out.

914forme- it's gonna be somewhere between 2"-4" not quite sure yet. The 108mm CV are the only way to go with any kind of real torque. They are much cheaper in the off-road community than the Porsche ones and available with a lot of added features.

rnellums

Oct 14 2018, 08:26 PM

I have an EZ30 (with the larger cast manifold compared to the 36) in a CW cradle that fits with no cuts (excusing one notch for the clutch slave)

I did flip the throttle body using a tight radius mandrel bend though. Moving the drivetrain forward that far seems like it may create more headaches than it solves.

914-300Hemi

Oct 14 2018, 08:45 PM

Chi-town

Oct 14 2018, 10:21 PM

There's a few reasons I'm going to move the motor forward:

The throttle body is literally up against the rear trunk wall, I can't even fit my finger in between.

The tail of the trans is too far rearward into the heat shield area. With it more forward I can lift the rear of the trans to get it back to the right angle without cutting the shield.

Clutch slave and release fork clearance without cutting.

There's about 6-8"" between the front cover AVCS protrusions and the rear bulkhead. I'm going to try it with the motor moved forward 2", check the CV angles and clearances. If I am still not happy and have any angle left in the CV's I'll move it 4".

The throttle body clearance issue is the least of my concerns as I only plan on running the stock intake manifold to get the car running and then I'll switch over to ITB's.

Chris914n6

Oct 15 2018, 12:51 AM

I've got a 2011 WRX trans so some of this might not apply.

I think you can cut off the top of the fork as the other years don't have the helper spring.

I'm sure someone can find a slave with the same bore and fab a bracket. Nissan makes several that are low profile. I've got a pusher with it mounted on the bell so it's a different solution.

Rubber mallet to bend the heat shield out of the way, just in case you want it back later.

Stock CVs can handle 1.5" forward or back, as it's the size of the Renegade Hybrids blocks for SBC swaps. Make sure you calculate in full circle... including susp movement.

Flip the intake? I'm sure others would be interested in knowing.

PS. Diameter of the Suby flywheel someone?

Chi-town

Oct 15 2018, 09:05 AM

I did think about swapping to a push style clutch case but I've had too many fork and bearing failures throughout the years with them.

I'm redesigning the cradle anyway so the move forward isn't that hard in the scheme of things.

I'm ordered a set of ProAm high angle CV's so I can do a bit more than 1.5" off center. I will run a full suspension cycle to make sure they stay happy all the way through.

You would have to make a custom adjustable alternator mount to flip the intake manifold. I plan on switching to ITB's so it's not a big issue for me but if I'm going to produce cradles for a kit I want it to be as bolt in as possible.

76-914

Oct 15 2018, 09:11 AM

QUOTE(Chi-town @ Oct 14 2018, 09:21 PM)

What is the correct angle in degrees of the transmission. I can see from some tech drawings that the transmission does tilt down towards the rear in it's stock configuration. The ITB conversion will be interesting. I suppose it will require a different map for the ECU??? Is that available? I forgot to mention what Chris just did. Chop the end off the clutch fork. You say the transmission sits too far back. Are you using the 6 speed? More pic's for the suby crowd, pls.

Chi-town

Oct 15 2018, 09:55 AM

It's back out of the car at the moment while I make plates to move the mounts. I should have it back in sometime this week.

I'm running a EZ36R so the factory ECU is not an option for me due to the immobilizer issue. I have a Link standalone that I'll be using.

The bottom of a Subaru 5 speed should be almost level with the ground to keep the fluid where it should be and not stuck in the tail.

I did measure and there's no way to run a 6 speed unless you want to cut the trunk floor and make a tunnel for it.

76-914

Oct 15 2018, 10:03 AM

Yeah, I knew about the Link ECU but didn't know if there was an available map for the ITB set up. Or maybe that won't necessitate a map change? IIRC, I trimmed my heat shield a bit for my home made shift mechanism @ the rear of the transmission. Nothing major.

Chi-town

Oct 15 2018, 10:08 AM

Yeah it get's kinda tricky with the ITB's. You have to run a MAP load calculation to TPS only fuel mapping switch over point due to them hitting 0 inches of vacuum at only 20-30% throttle.

flmont

Oct 15 2018, 02:50 PM

I would love some info on those axle's ?? Thanks

Chi-town

Oct 15 2018, 08:25 PM

Well right now it's just a set of 4 joints sitting on my tool box not complete axles. Once I get the engine back in I'll take some measurements and get a shaft made for trial.

flmont

Oct 15 2018, 09:51 PM

Ah,..Ok Thanks

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