Brad and crew got my 20+ year old Jaide conversion resurrected a couple of years ago but I couldn't leave well enough alone. A fellow V8 converter sold me his built 400hp engine before Christmas and I thought I could get it installed by the April's WCC05 by merely replacing the clutch and rebuilding the old Carter carb. The KEP clutch turned into a fiasco so I decided to buy an all new Renegade kit (less the engine and tranny mounts) besides I already had their great radiator. Bill P gave me some v-belt parts since he was going serpentine and Renegade gave me a nice deal on the w/p for supporting them over the years. Well I come to find this is not a week-end bolt-in so here are my woes and triumphs…

V8 Gurus..., Edelbrock Manifold and Head miss-match
More V8 questions for the gurus..., It's been over 15 years..
Just like "Rides" hot host, designer, and, a team of 40 to work on my car...
Help V8 Gurus! Engine removal..., ...not clearing the axles? V8 topic: Anyone know what header baffles..., ...are used for?
V8 Topic: Help!, Harmonic Balancer not fitting...
Which is better: Renegade or KEP clutch, (or kevlar vs.organic)...
Renegade V8 TOPIC: Shifter?, How did you lengthen it?
GM harmonic balancer differences..., V8 topic
More V8 conversion questions..., ...the rebuild continues
Where to mount a Holley Elect Fuel pump?, in a V8 conversion...
mounting the HEI distributor
"simple" HEI wiring is not so simple to me
V8 topic: front mounted electric fuel pump wiring, ...where to tap 12V?
How do you replace the two shift coupler bushings?, ...just drive the shaft out, is there a pin on it?

Which brings me to my "July" issues...

1. Per Scott's instructions, I rotated the water pump to point the 1 1/4' inlet outward but now locates one of the 1" fittings under the head, not like in their online instruction picture. Why is mine "special"?

Notice how "wide" the Jaide engine mount is? Here's Bill "narrow" Renegade bar for comparison.

2. that hose inlet to xbar is CLOSE...

3. My slick Polyurethane engine mounts are "short", you might be able to see the bottom bolt is ~1/4" from the engine boss. Hope the guys at Speed Merchant will exchange these purchased months ago...

Felix, this is going to sound too easy but, the 1.25 inlet can turn around without having to turn the WP. Remove the WP and install it the way you need it and turn just the inlet around.

Get that car on the road!!

Hi Felix,

Your pump location is very similar to mine. I'm going out to breakfast with the family in a few minutes, but I'll shoot pics when I get back.

Hey...your car isn't the only special car....JLO has "special" parts, and so does THE BEAST.....I thought all 914's are "special"...

I'll post some pics in an hour or so...

Bill P.

QUOTE (skline @ Jul 3 2005, 05:11 AM)

Felix, this is going to sound too easy but, the 1.25 inlet can turn around without having to turn the WP. Remove the WP and install it the way you need it and turn just the inlet around. Get that car on the road!!

Scott,

The problem is it only rotates 180 degrees because RH uses a tstat housing... I can point it up or down.

My Simpson fitting screwed in so you could position 360 degrees...

QUOTE (nine14cats @ Jul 3 2005, 06:43 AM)

Hi Felix, Your pump location is very similar to mine. I'm going out to breakfast with the family in a few minutes, but I'll shoot pics when I get back. Hey...your car isn't the only special car....JLO has "special" parts, and so does THE BEAST.....I thought all 914's are "special"... I'll post some pics in an hour or so... Bill P.

Bill,

My concern is the short hose has to make virtually a right angle to the outlet under the head.

I'm dropping by MikeP's at 10:30 and we are going to visit Chris Julian. Call me if you want/can come.

If not, I was planning on dropping off some $ to you later...

That sucks.....

Hopefully you guys have fun at Chris's! post some pics if you took any... I want to see some progress!

For that t-stat housing check Summit Racing's site. There are a dozen options including one that pivots to any angle and some that have 0 degrees of rise. I am sure you can get a fit.

Alex

QUOTE (Andyrew @ Jul 3 2005, 11:29 AM)

That sucks..... Hopefully you guys have fun at Chris's! post some pics if you took any... I want to see some progress!

I'll dig up Chris' thread and post...

Felix,

Here's a few shots of my RH setup from the RH "factory". You can clearly see the hose is kinked and will need straightening. Also, the last shot shows how close to the block the bend goes.

Bill P.

water pump

#2

water pump #3

WP#4

Bill, that hose goes ~300 degrees around the pump! I may try to find some tstat housings at Summit...

BTW, let me know if you need sketches of graphics you are thinking of for your race car...

I'm liking AN fittings like on Chris' car...

I asked Mike about the routing of the hose. He said it is to minimize kinks with soft radius bends.

Let me know what you come up with on the t-stat housings.....

I'm gonna go stare at the hoses again....

Bill P.

Bill,

Found this 360 degree swivel thermostat housing: CSR Performance Products CSI-912C at Summit

Well some progress. Assembled everything to fit but had to use washers under the brackets that Scott did not recommend. Maybe I do need to use the supplied balancer spacer even with the gear drive thickness. I don't like that the balancer will not have much collar on the crankshaft and it will be 1/4" closer to the firewall.

To make my Jaide engine cross bar fit, I used my dirty 20+ year old engine mounts. I could be wrong but it seemed all my old Jaide parts fit nicely the first time. I assembled it on a couple weekends while I was in school. 20+ years later these "highly developed" Renegade parts need modifying, component matching, etc. I guess this is the "fun" part.

Still have the w/p inlet pointing up or down into the engine mount. The tstat inlets are usually 1 1/2" and this is 1 1/4". Alot have o-rings too so the search will continue at Speed Merchant and more FLAPS tomorrow...

Ok, test rotated the water pump like Bills with one hose going all around the outside of the pump.

w/p inlet is okay but the fitting is right up to the engine block. I can swing the pump away from the block but then the Renegade specified belt is too short...

plastic 1" are in right orientation but the inlet is not.

Hey hey, Felix! Looking good.

We are kinda' in the same part of our projects. Hope we both make it to the V8 gathering with both of our running teens!!!! =-))))))

Keep up the good work.

Found a swivel chrome tstat housing for $24 at Speed Merchant and a 1 1/2" to 1 1/4" reducing hose, thanks for the idea Alex. Still tight but "fits" in the right orientation. On to the clutch...

Swapped my 1 1/4" and 1 1/2" lines under the car, nice work Brad crew. Heavy duty brackets and in two sizes so I had to swap those too. The Simpson pump was on the right and the Renegade is on the left. guess they want to be somewhat "different".

QUOTE (rogergrubb @ Jul 9 2005, 11:04 AM)

Hey hey, Felix! Looking good. We are kinda' in the same part of our projects. Hope we both make it to the V8 gathering with both of our running teens!!!! =-)))))) Keep up the good work.

Yep, now I'm shooting for the Speed Merchant July 12 street rod meet! The electric fuel pump may take some time but we'll see...

Felix,


Quit screwing with those HID lights and get 'er running first!!!! =-))))

You're as bad as I am when I'm loosing motivation. Call someone to lend some hands or moral support. That's what I did and it's been great.

Thanks Roger so far you are my only motivation.

Well, I took off the lid and haven't decided where to put the fuel pump - under tank or in front trunk. Even if I put it in the trunk, I'm sure I have to remove the tank to attach the lines. Besides I need to install the 22mm Welt bar in there. The worms keep coming...

Family members keep flying in expecting me to spend time with them. What's up with that?

That's ironic,

My g-friends mom is in town for a month visiting from Mexico City...

Ayyyyyy ayyyyy, ay ayyyyyyyyyyy... =-)

Now I get to REALLY brush up on my espanol.


I'm mounting my electric pump near the engine 'cuz that 30 Y.O. shit fuel line probably won't take the pressure... LOL Plus yanking that tank again is a waist of my time. Valuable, "get'er done" time.

I've met very few "good" excuses........ Granted, family is a good one.

Well got back to the dirty work in the engine bay. Replaced my stock brake balancer with a Tee from Adam (3liter914-6) Thanks! Also installed billet Optima mount.

next up, install :
clutch, tranny
electric fuel pump
22mm sway bar
exhaust
carb, tune
headers

Ok, that's it...

Drilled the holes for my front 22mm Weltmeister, just awaiting new bushings from Automotion to assemble. What a pain cutting the metal to clear the bracket with just a angle grinder and metal shear! A dremel would have been real handy.

Are washers needed on the droplinks since they slide within the width of the U tabs?

I will bring my tank to a rad shop this week to boil it out and maybe have them solder the small return line before reinstallation.

Got the fittings for my Holley fuel pump and regulator, just need to mount and connect them. Does anyone know how to adjust the regulator?

I removed the baffle from other header, what a job. That took alot of grinding, drilling, , and

Still have to pick up new Borlas from MikeP but I can see a small light at the end of the tunnel. Half the battle is motivating myself to begin work...

you will need to have a fuel pressure gauge fitted to the output of the reg. temparary or permanent . and adjust to 4-5 psi for a carb. then verify your float level in the carb. this makes a big difference in the carb running rich or lean under all conditions ie: idle, power, part throttle.

You can use a swivel t stat housing to point your hose anywhere you want on the water pump. I think Mr. Gasket has them.

Mark

QUOTE (marks914 @ Nov 29 2005, 09:07 AM)

You can use a swivel t stat housing to point your hose anywhere you want on the water pump.  I think Mr. Gasket has them. Mark

Mark,

It's hard to see but I do have the swivel tstat housing. I was told that Meiziere has one 1 1/4" but this set up should work.

Anyone know why these bushings from Weltmeister have a shoulder when the originals were straight?

Monthly update:

Got the bar in but don't know where to set the down link on the horizontal bar.

Also, do I leave the space in the u-tab on both sides of the drop link or add spacers/washers?

QUOTE (neo914-6 @ Dec 29 2005, 12:09 AM)

Also, do I leave the space in the u-tab on both sides of the drop link or add spacers/washers?

You need that lower Heim Joint to be able to move, so dont just stack washers... they make special cone shaped washers for exactly that reason.

As far as the horizontal bar goes, set them the same on both sides, the are adjustable so you can increase or decrease the amount of force transfered. Closer to the end is weaker, closer to the bar is stronger

QUOTE (Crazyhippy @ Dec 29 2005, 10:48 AM)

they make special cone shaped washers for exactly that reason.

Where do you get these?

Thanks!

Their called rod end spacers.

Hererod spacer

QUOTE (sj914 @ Dec 29 2005, 02:11 PM)

Their called rod end spacers. Hererod spacer

$8 shipping for $2 parts...

You could try a shop that does suspension work.

here's another link

Great link thanks....................

Bob

Hi Felix:

I was cruising the site and wanted to offer some suggestions based on my experience. 4 years ago, I met Scottie at PorscheFest and was BITTEN to do
a 914 conversion car. It is done and has been running for about 2 years: 500HP 383, 930 trans, rollcage, big Willwood brakes, full suspension mods. It is a HOOT
to out-drag Corvettes on the straights and terrorize them in the corners. I started with with idea of going to Scottie, but quickly learned that he was not a reliable source. I don't trust him and he knows it!

Suggestions:

-The first thing is to GET RID of Scotties cheap plastic 90s in the cooling system. They were NEVER designed to work in an automotive application and when I pulled them from a friends car, found that the threaded part had COLLAPSED from
heat and tightening pressure. On my car I chased around until I found BRASS parts that will cost about $12 ea, but will last.

-If you are getting help from Brad "all914.com", HE IS THE EXPERT and is absolutely honest! Follow his suggestions.

-The RH engine cross-bar is JUNK and it is easy to see that they BEND with the car sitting dead in the driveway. I made my own out of 2" X 2" and made it a structural part of the car. Your engine mount looks good and should do the job for your application.

-Go for the t-stat housing as already suggested that allows the neck to rotate to any angle. It has 2 parts a base plate and a neck free to rotate. If not Summit, they are cheap on e-bay.

-With 400 HP, you may be OK on the cooling side. However, it you have troubles keeping the car cool, I would recommend going 1-1/4" with ALL cooling hoses.
My bud is a graduate mechanical engineer and taught me that most efficient cooling occurs when the water flows at the HIGHEST RATE. This is science, don't listen to Scottie back-yard nonsense.

Question: How goes Chris Julian's car? Has he fixed the huge oiling problem he had a while back when he was down south here for the annual 914 gathering.

BTW: smoothing driving (especially shifting) as you did in you slalom video should
keep that 901 trans living a good while. It seems that they will take a 400 HP engine (actually the issue is TORQUE) if driven carefully.

Best of luck,

Terry

QUOTE (Terryst1 @ Jan 1 2006, 05:55 PM)

Question: How goes Chris Julian's car? Has he fixed the huge oiling problem he had a while back when he was down south here for the annual 914 gathering. Best of luck, Terry

Terry,

Good to hear from you, I "think" I have most of the issues solved but I will revisit the use of the plastic elbows.

As you know Chris doesn't do things halfway so he plunked down huge coin to completely rebuilt his engine to modern specs and at least 500hp. He even followed your advise on the cross-over headers. He is close to re-installing the engine but has not done so yet. His new company has absorbed most of his time and doesn't even check this bbs much anymore. Let me know if you're ever in the SF Bay Area...

Keep in touch!

QUOTE (Terryst1 @ Jan 1 2006, 05:55 PM)

Hi Felix: I was cruising the site and wanted to offer some suggestions based on my experience. 4 years ago, I met Scottie at PorscheFest and was BITTEN to do a 914 conversion car. It is done and has been running for about 2 years: 500HP 383, 930 trans, rollcage, big Willwood brakes, full suspension mods. It is a HOOT to out-drag Corvettes on the straights and terrorize them in the corners. I started with with idea of going to Scottie, but quickly learned that he was not a reliable source. I don't trust him and he knows it! Suggestions: -The first thing is to GET RID of Scotties cheap plastic 90s in the cooling system. They were NEVER designed to work in an automotive application and when I pulled them from a friends car, found that the threaded part had COLLAPSED from heat and tightening pressure. On my car I chased around until I found BRASS parts that will cost about $12 ea, but will last. -If you are getting help from Brad "all914.com", HE IS THE EXPERT and is absolutely honest! Follow his suggestions. -The RH engine cross-bar is JUNK and it is easy to see that they BEND with the car sitting dead in the driveway. I made my own out of 2" X 2" and made it a structural part of the car. Your engine mount looks good and should do the job for your application. -Go for the t-stat housing as already suggested that allows the neck to rotate to any angle. It has 2 parts a base plate and a neck free to rotate. If not Summit, they are cheap on e-bay. -With 400 HP, you may be OK on the cooling side. However, it you have troubles keeping the car cool, I would recommend going 1-1/4" with ALL cooling hoses. My bud is a graduate mechanical engineer and taught me that most efficient cooling occurs when the water flows at the HIGHEST RATE. This is science, don't listen to Scottie back-yard nonsense. Question: How goes Chris Julian's car? Has he fixed the huge oiling problem he had a while back when he was down south here for the annual 914 gathering. BTW: smoothing driving (especially shifting) as you did in you slalom video should keep that 901 trans living a good while. It seems that they will take a 400 HP engine (actually the issue is TORQUE) if driven carefully. Best of luck, Terry

HUH???

I appologise in advance for the impending highjack of your thread, but miss information, and blatant lies should not be given the oportunity to propigate

- The "Plastic" fittings were designed by a Major Automotive Manufactur, they are made of the same material as the intake manifold (which has coolant runnning through it) on the Chevy LS1. The threads on yours stripped because they are pipe threads (tapered) and you are not smart enough to stop torquing on the fitting when it's tight. I have personally torqued a hose clamp onto the fittings while hot from boiling water, and witnessed no observable defflection.
Nothing wrong w/ using brass fittings, but be sure they aren't necked down inside, which will kill the flow. And dont over tighten them, or you will be bitching about the aluminum mounts not being strong enough

- All914.com does not exist. Brad is a fairly active member of this board. Great guy, no argument. He is THE guy to talk to for set-up, suspension stuff etc. Last i heard, he is not in the conversion buisness however. It's kinda like asking your dentist to take a look at your broken hand... Better than most, but he will refer you to an expert.

- Bull The RH mount has over twice the torsional ridgity of the factory mount. If you want to make a heavier one... more power to you, but dont try to blow smoke over it.

- The RH mount works just fine w/ the RH Water pump inlet, the problems arise when people try to use their own motor mount bar. The rotating inlet is a good solution.

- There is a guarantee behind the "backyard nonsense" It is Guaranteed to work. According to your friend with no real world experiance, you should also remove the thermostat, as the water will be flowing faster, but it is well documented that Chevy small blocks overheat without a thermostat The Chevy Motor must have never met your friend

In conclusion, if you have a problem w/ Scott, that's fine, just dont try to make up defficancies with his product to cover up your own agenda