Yep; my TB is original. Curiosity is telling me to yank it to look underneath for the PN but my head and back are saying no. Voices….

don't pull it out. why disturb it.

between us we have the PN for the TB and the dist i reckon for an EC-B.


EDIT

@StarBear .
got the camera in enough to read the last part of the dizzy PN
looks like its a 231 181 009 Bosch PN same as yours.
rest of VW PN goes around where i can't see to read.
safe to say its a AA same as yours.



Click to view attachment


found this thread about the man who rebuilds throttle bodies.

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=271012

its got images of 1.8 throttle bodies with same PN as mine.
022 133 067A (H)
but the retard port to dizzy hose looks blanked off unlike mine which is opened up for dizzy hose.
mysteries continue?

one of the throttle bodies pictured belongs to @nihil44 .
he is in australia.
if he reads this he might be able to cast some light.

@StarBear & @JeffBowlsby

figured out the part # discrepancy in my throttle body.
there is a consistent typo in the PET catalogue.
PET lists all throttle body numbers final three digits as 062.
it should be 067.

i did a search through google images and scanned some ebay adds.

the 1.7s all end in 067.

the 2.0s even end in 067.

PET lists even these as 062s (incorrectly?).

1.7

Click to view attachment


2.0

Click to view attachment

Awesome investigative work, @wonkipop !
Yep; PN on mine on the side of the TB stem like the photo above. 067A with the Audi logo and a little “1” to the right of the logo.
Soooo, the TBs on the 1.8s ARE a different part number. Next obvious question is “HOW are they different?” Or just “A” to designate PN for supply to Audi? The VW versions don’t have the A; sort of like a supersede designation?
The mystery evolves.

@Starbear - what you need to see, if you can easily, is if yours has an H cast/stamped on it anywhere.
it might be somewhere else.

i think the way it works is that all the 1.7s are 022 133 067 with either a D or an E also on the throttle body. the D or E is stamped elsewhere and not immediately after the numerical PN? the D is on the earlier 1.7 cars and the E is on later 1.7s. i'm guessing A, B,C would be EFI VW engines with D jet earlier than 914s.

for a 2.0 the TB is 039 133 067 with either a D, B or C stamped somewhere else?
but not relevant to this discussion. but interesting i suppose since the parts catalogue implies its revised or different along the way.

for a 1.8 the TB is 022 133 067A with either an H, L, R or S stamped elsewhere.
the A immediately after the numerical numbers signifies it is the first significant variant of the original 1.7 throttle body? bigger bore on a 1.8 for a start?
the H L R or S signifies some other smaller variation in the throttle body?
so far i have only been able to come across images of TBs with the H stamped on them like mine.

your TB is likely an early batch of the 1.8 TBs and has the PN stamped on the spindle like 1.7 TBs. after earlier batch they change the casting, or maybe even the supplier of the casting?

Maybe that little “1” I saw was an “L”. Will recheck and post.

something i got to check is i swear i came across an 062 throttle body on an images search earlier, but i might have confused it. i'll have to dig around and see if i screen grabbed it and filed it. sure is slightly weird this PN discrepancy with the PET. the germans don't usually make mistakes like that?

there is a 1 stamped on mine as well. its next to the VW logo.
its under the PN.
it goes 1 (VW LOGO) (AUDI LOGO).

Here's mine. Definitely a "1" and varies from your description (VW, Audi, "1")
No letter that I can find, unless it's back under some surface not visible unless the unit is removed and inspected; clearly not next to the PN.
Click to view attachment
Yeah; consistency is pretty "loose".

i had to reread up how VW parts numbers work again.
a mystery because it can never be fully explained unless you knew all the obscure parts groups and inconsistencies in numbers.......

but

first three letters in this case means engine group developed for.
would be the type 4 engine. (it can mean other things like model, but it will mean enigne in this case because its an engine part.)
022 = type 4 engine i think. (039 is the porsche designed 2.0 L variant)

second three letters mean the engine part.

133.
1 = engine.
33 = throttle body.

third three letters mean

location identifier.
067 = where it is on the engine (or could mean on the car itself).

letter at end means variation. A is usually the first. sometimes the first has no letter after it and then the first variation (ie second version) has the A. its inconsistent too.

at some point VW changed its catalogueing order and throttle bodies were given a different location identifier of 062 in all their updated catalogues.
as a result of that 067 became 062 in PET and there would be some internal accounting that meant any replacement throttle bodies were reassigned the number. either with a new label on the box maybe or if parts were actually made in new batches maybe even stamped with a new number or whatever they did to cope with that to make sure you got the right part.

so the H L R or S variants of the throttle body mentioned in the PET catalogue are new reassigned numbers and could appear differently on the original parts we have.


the PET catalogue is not much use except to say there are four variations.

you have to find examples of the original parts in the 4 variations to work out what they were actually stamped.



so far we know there was an A version.
that could mean A version of original 1.7 throttle body = 1.8 throttle body.
all the other numbers are the same from 1.7 to 1.8. nothing else to distinguish except 1.7 TBs have no letter after the number as far as i can find.

i'm thinking it means A = what identifies a 1.8 throttle body from a 1.7 throttle body.

and that H could still mean the first sub variant beyond it being a 1.8.
but & is still really what i think.
given confusing possibilities of VW PNs its possible the first batch of throttle bodies (like yours might be StarBear) they just have the PN ending in A and there is no H because at that point maybe there was no other version yet superseding it?
but after a second version has to appear - says its an L, they give the original version in its later batches a H as well. you just don't know with VW.

the only way to really do this is to collect images from people.
see what they have.
and try and get info from cars reasonably certain to be original.

I wonder if (?) the other letters denote the second-party supplier/vendor. Bosch did that with lots of their stuff (condensers, etc) though with additional numbers. Another wrench to our brains!

could be. those 2.0L throttle bodies have LUS stamped on them - whatever that means ?

i found US vehicle emissions standards for the 70s.
there is a difference between Cali and Fed (49 states).
Cali is trying to get NOx down. (but accepts higher CO as a consequence).
its like an interim stage just before cats (cats will drop high CO by converting it to CO2. cal accepts higher CO to lower NOx (main ingredient of smog) for 74 on the way to implementing cats in 75.

74 is a funny year in terms of emissions standards? i've got a feeling that earlier in the 70s it was the target date for cats but lobbying by manufactures resulted in an EPA concession to delay it by a year and phase it across 2 years.

@StarBear . you are right about letters being manufacturer of part. some of the letters anyway.

LUS on 2.0 Litre TB = manufacturer. its a sub contracted supplier item.

1 + VW LOGO + AUDI LOGO = made by VW/AUDI in their own plant and by VW/AUDI GERMANY. a 2 would mean VW Mexico. a 3 would mean VW Brazil. (at least that was what the information i found said).

1.7 and 1.8 TBs were all made by VW themselves inside one of their factories.

Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment

The H that is stamped on the 1.8 TB stands for something other than supplier or manufacturer.

But for all the 2.0 L owners with their special porsche engine (which it is) its been made by a supplier that porsche brought into the chain.

@JeffBowlsby .

there are plenty of threads you can find with a search on thesamba covering painted stamps on engine tin.

seems type 1 engines also got the stamps.
a lot of time hidden on back of fan tin so not always visible.
never saw them on aussie beetles, but they could have been there.
not sure if type 3 engines got them, did not find any evidence from samba members posting images of them.

seems all the stamps are for quick recognition of completed engine stock inventory.
ie what spec it is, what EFI set up its got, what it goes into.

apparently I O might mean IN ORDNUNG. ie in order. or as we understand it - an OK stamp.

@StarBear & @JeffBowlsby .

i have managed to find some stuff about the implementation of the clean air act in the USA that indicate the original plan to have the US car fleet fitted with cats by 1975 had to be delayed slightly.

There was a problem getting enough cats made and into the supply chain early.

i'll keep digging as i get bits of spare time.

The plan was drawn up by the US Government in 1970, EPA was founded etc.
California was granted the special dispensation that it still has to this day, originally to set their own standards, but in reality to simply introduce standards proposed by the EPA a year earlier. The EPA figured this was a practical way to do things, phasing in technology for 50 states over 2 years instead of 1.

Cat original timetable were proposed for all 50 states by 1975. Which meant California would have had cats in 1974. But it got shifted. So 74 is a kind of stand still year in some ways though california went ahead and lowered NOx emission levels. A by product of lowered NOx levels was an increase in C0 levels. Cats would have lowered the C0 and turned it into C02 and HC into C02 and H20. They took the C0 hit from no cats for one year in order to drop the NOx which was a major ingredient of smog.

Thats why the 73 California 1.7s have unleaded engines. They are getting ready to take the cats the next year in 74. The unleaded part of the timetable stayed on track.

In 74 all the engines in 50 states go unleaded capable for all cars.

A second reason for unleaded which i never realised is that the lower compression ratios of unleaded engines also lowered NOx emissions as they ran at lower combustion temps.

so i think something goes on with 74 1.8s where they get them ready to be a cat equiped 1.8 and a non cat 1.8 but it never happens in reality until 75. but the evidence gets left behind.

in the end its all in how the throttle body hoses get hooked up to the distributor.
the TBs have both ports (or have the capacity to have both ports) they are just used differently from cat cars to non cat cars in 75.

there is a bit of evidence on this website from threads 10 or more years ago about the different ways the TBs on 74 1.8s were hooked up to the vacuum advance/retard distributors - it seems in a variety of ways. i think that is what the different throttle bodies are about. whether or not a port was capped or non capped and whether it was hooked up or not hooked up.

the port operating off manifold vacuum and connected to the retard port on the distributor would achieve the low NOx at idle level (via retarded timing at idle) if the state required it (california?).

the other port operating off vacuum at part throttle and connected to the advance port on the distributor is a fairly standard form of vacuum advance for fuel efficiency and economy. likely to have remained hooked up on all cars for all 50 states?

i think early on with the 1.8s they might have been playing around with it as variables.
but by the time you get to something like my car or starbears they just hook them all up and make it basically a 50 state car (and from then on only offer a 50 state car?).

still does not quite explain the A or B sticker. but the interesting thing about the A or B sticker is both cars are 50 state compliant - and from what i can tell in the photos the A car (blue car on mr. b website) is the same as our B cars. I can see the distributor hookup, its the same, and i can see the engine bay charcoal can, its the same.

a further possibility for the A or B on the sticker is that it refers to a engine group test batch standard. the cars were certified by agreed to tests of vehicles taken off the production line at specified intervals conducted by the manufacturer and submitted to the EPA and or CARB. These were the full tests that measured HC, CO and NOx concentrations (as distinct from simpler annual exhaust checks required of owners).
Its possible that EC-A and EC-B might mean that vw/porsche did two separate such tests for the EC engine, both of which in the end conform to all 50 states, but have different paperwork. the sticker indicates which test a particular engine fitted in the car conforms to. The difference may be because there is minor variation/or even just a second test of the same variation?

I say this because apparently that is what the engine group code on the sticker really means. it means the manufacturers engine group, but a little more - the manufacturers engine group test for EPA and CARB certification purposes.

For there to be a california 1,8 and a non california 1.8 there has to be somewhere an emission sticker that says EPA approved only? its going to be something other than EC-A or EC-B (they both say california + EPA).

It could be for instance EC? a sticker photo drive amongst members with 1.8s might find what is there.

@StarBear .

further thought on what the H on TB means.

It means the H variant - but is also on the L variant.
H is listed as the 49 state variant - for MY 1974 - see parts catalogue listing.

see photo (attached) from thread about rebuilding 1.8 throttle bodies.
photo shows TB with H stamped has blocked port (undrilled) which if opened would take a vacuum hose to the retard side of distributor in some cars - eg our cars (or all californian cars).
looks exactly the same as the TB on my car, same PN, man. identification and H, apart from that port being not opened up.

Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment

You won't find the L variant, at least not with L stamped on it?
all they do for the L variant is drill out the idle retard port on the H variant parent casting, insert a coupling tube and then package it in a box with L variant identified on labelling?

To put it simply, wonki and starbear have L variant TBs for 74 (which parts manual says is californian 1.8 part) - its an H with the port drilled out?
i don't think you would go and make a separate casting just to have an L stamped on it.
you just use the parent part and do a further operation on it.

Click to view attachment

difference between a 74 1.8 throttle body and a 75 1.8.

for 75 the area around the idle screw is enlarged and forms a bigger mass of metal including around the base of throttle valve spindle.

74 (from my car, 067A - 2 vac ports)

Click to view attachment

75 (067C - image does not make clear if 1 or 2 vac ports).

Click to view attachment


found so far.

1974
067A (H) with one vac port.
067A (H) with two vac port. probably the L variant in PET?

1975
067C (no further information re ports or variant)

changes around idle screw probable reason for 2 new variants listed in PET for 75.
2 variants could be a repeat of 74. i port/2port.
or could be different. need more info for 75s.

@JeffBowlsby

breakthrough?

1. example from your exceptional cars on website.
74 1.8. build early Jan 74. emission sticker is EC-A California + 49 States.

Click to view attachment


engine tune sticker. note hoses are shown on these stickers - and indicate whether hose is on or off for setting initial idle. sticker indicates hoses off as per 1.8 tune. only 1 hose is shown.

Click to view attachment



2. wonki car.
74 1.8 build end of jan 74. emission sticker is EC-B california + 49 States.

Click to view attachment


engine tune sticker. sticker indicates hoses off as per 1.8 tune instructions. 2 hoses are shown. (the sticker is heat/age damaged but you can still see the two hoses).

Click to view attachment


i never looked at these things closely before for different VWs. eg examples of tune up stickers for late model buses. these have idle set with hoses on. tune up sticker shows that. dumb cartoons but deadly accurate.



Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment


conclusion.

EC-A (cali + 49 states) has 1 vac hose connected from dist to TB.
which one i am not sure yet, its hard to tell from photos of engine bay of blue 74 on your website.

EC-B (cali + 49 states) has two vacuum hoses connected from dist to TB.
wonki + StarBear cars.
advance dist (left) to advance TB (rear of car). retard dist (right) to retard TB (front of car)


(god is in the details - mies van der rohe )


now whats an EC-B that is only 49 states?
you have one of those stickers on your website.

-----------

EDIT - re marathon blue car on your website mr. b
i have looked hard at the images of the engine bay on your website.
interesting stencilled engine number too - 607 maybe, but first letter is degraded and illegible.
what i can see with a reasonable degree of certainty is that it runs a vacuum hose from the distributor advance side to the TB port facing rear of car (advance at cruise).
BUT thats not what the tune up sticker is saying. its saying one hose only. further disconnect retard hose on distributor at idle tune up setting so thats the only hose. (if there was a second fully connected hose VW practice with the stickers would be to show second hose and to show it connected) which means it should have a hose connected only to the retard side of TB. further its saying there is no advance line connected. (which given other accounts of distributor hoses would mean there was a hose on distributor but it was left lying open and tucked under the dist). so something is inconsistent between sticker and engine as photographed. i doubt anyone would change an emission sticker or a engine tune up sticker. (its possible - however they both look aged/original but in good condition). more likely would be throttle body/vac connection changed/modified along the way.
need other examples to nail this one.
but it is an EC-A stickered car. and tune sticker indicates only vacuum retard activated, not vacuum advance. those two clues are saying that much about an EC-A car.

Click to view attachment

a bit more information re EC engines in USA cars.

the 74 412 ran L jet alongside the 1.8 914.
i found an image of an original EC in a 412 Variant.
its a very different setup to the 914.

1. the 412s ran EGR in 74!
2. far as i can tell (not 100% on this) from image the EGR was connected to a TB port on forward facing side of throttle body (using orientation of the TB in a 914 - to rear of car in 412). the vacuum line from the EGR connected to the cast bump directly below the idle screw (see images above of 914 throttle body). the bump below was left undrilled and not used as it was in some 914s for idle retard. they drilled out the upper bump and fitted a coupling. the vacuum line to this port also tee-ed off near the TB and ran to a second port in the intake manifold plenum.
3. the distributor was not a dual vac chamber advance/retard but had only a single vacuum advance chamber. the vacuum advance hose connected to the TB port on the rearward side of throttle body ( using orientation of TB in 914). as per some 74 914 the port is being used at cruise to advance for fuel economy.
4. the tune up sticker had a dist diagram with only one hose drawn and it was shown connected for idle setup.

i could not see an emissions sticker in the image i found. this engine would have had a version of the 914 classifications? ie either plain EC or EC-letter identifier. all 74 412s were fitted with the EC engine. very hard to find further information on the 412.

it is interesting how different it is. that it is running EGR before the 914 does. and it has a different set up for the EGR. i am not entirely sure how it works on the 412 but i think it might be recirculating exhaust gas at idle but also it is able to do it at cruise. i believe the 75 914 would have recirculated EG at cruise.

a 412 only ran an auto box in the usa so set up was probably tailored to engine characteristics for the gearbox?

Click to view attachment

i did some more trawling through older car ads still around on internet.
found this example of 74 1.8.

no emission sticker/engine stencilled number in images unfortunately.
but has following.

1. tune up sticker with two hoses to dist as per wonki/starbear/van b cars.
2. vin number date 02/74. its about 700 cars after wonki car.
3. it was sold new in mississippi (so not a california car).

a pity no emission sticker image was available to 100% confirm what EC-? it was and how it was listed as being compliant.

Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment

SUMMARY OF POSITIONS OF VACUUM HOSES BY EXPERTS.

This helps summarise what can be known with some certainty about the variable vacuum hose layouts.

Version 1.
the late Cap'n Krusty.
credentials are impeccable.
he states both ports on dist connected to both ports on TB.
both ports on TB are opened up in casting.
he lives and works in california.
he works on a 1.8 L jet before it hits the showrooms.
see posts extracted from thread date (2010)
he is seeing cali cars from the start - they are as per wonki, starbear and van b.
EC-B (California and EPA emissions sticker).

Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment


Version 2.
Clay Perrine.
credentials impeccable.
he states only the retard vac port on dist is connected to retard vac port on TB.
advance port on TB is capped/closed.
retard port is opened up and connected to retard on dist.
vacuum advance line on dist is on but tucked under dist and left open.
see posts extracted from thread date (2019)

Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment

Dr. 914 backs this up.
he'd know.
adds that version 2 comes into effect jan 01 74.
versions 1 are being made after jan 01 74 so does not necessarily supersede.

Click to view attachment

this would fit with marathon blue car = EC-A.
EC-A is California and EPA emissions sticker.
Fits with marathon blue car idle tune sticker though not with hose layout now on car in photos.


Version 3.
others claim there is a TB with an open advance port and a closed retard port.
only the advance on the distributor is hooked up to TB.
in this type the retard hose is fitted to the distributor and is tucked underneath.
though it looked like zonedoubt's car is a 75 and has a 067C TB.
however there is an image of a 067A TB with the same configuration so they likely do exist in 74.

Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment

--------

There is known to be an EC-B emission sticker and it is only 49 states / EPA.
Not california certified.
At present i cannot link it to any of the three versions.
There would be a idle tune sticker to go with it showing only a hose to right of dist on tune up sticker if version 3 is EC-B 49 states?

---------

Below images of what each version of TB would look like.

I have seen images of version 1 and version 3.
I have not seen images of version 2. i'm guessing its advance port is blocked or capped somehow.

Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment

Hmmmm…. Thinking I should add the two unconnected vac lines to my tune up sticker repro. What do you think, @wonkipop ? I’ll check the master image from which I developed the repro.

@StarBear .
depends how fanatical you want to be adding the hoses.
your stickers look pretty darn good the way they are.

i have never noticed my old one had hoses.
i picked it up looking at the sticker section on mr. b's site.
saw the one with only one hose.
thought hang on. went into the garage and looked at what was left of mine.
saw two........easy to just mistake them for wrinkles or scratch marks - another 914 rabbit hole.

last night i did a bit of reading up on 1973.
not 914 history, but broad history.

i was only 13 at the time - probably why i can't remember much besides kicking footballs, playing cricket and general running around aussie kids did!
(but there was an oil crisis in aus, i remember my father not being able to get enough fuel and we had to stop using the "big" holden and start going everywhere in my mothers beetle).

74 MY production starts beginning sept 1973.
(think thats right).


Yom Kippur War begins oct 6 1973.

Click to view attachment

does not come out of nowhere, had been building for 4 months prior.

Click to view attachment

oil producing arab nations immediately impose oil embargo at beginning of war.
targeting western nations supporting israel. sparking first oil crisis.

Click to view attachment

in response to oil shortage and rationing president nixon imposes nationwide 55 mph speed limit. november 23 1973.

Click to view attachment

within space of first 2-3 months of 1974 MY 914 production there is no petrol,
no speeding.

perfect storm - intersects with the imposition of stricter emissions limits in both california and to some extent the other 49 states.
(i believe california is a very important market for porsche at that time, roughly 50% of sales in the USA are to california, think i have that right - and 75% of all porsches are sold in the USA - remaining 25% rest of world and germany).

----------

porsche must have seen the events in the middle east coming?
(along with Ford, GM and Chrysler et al).
it had been building as a threat since may 1973.
egypt was rattling its sabre all year prior.

-------------

what i think. just a thesis as they say in research.

EC-A is the car that meets the california emissions target and passes the curbside idle test. it has retarded timing at idle to lower NOx emissions at standing idle.

EC-B is also the car that meets the california emissions target but in addition has extra vacuum advance of timing at cruise for fuel economy.

Both scenarios are completed at the time the cars are being prepared for production?
Represent two possibilities both of which pass CARB and EPA and are 50 state compliant.

The EC-A is probably the preferred variant? - but with fuel economy potentially a big issue about to become bigger, vw and porsche choose EC-B as the one to go first on sale?

The EC-B car (starbear/wonki/van B) has slight driveability issues when compared to the EC-A car? doesn't come down off throttle as well or drive as smoothly at part throttle as the EC-A version? some people do say this with 1.8s. and its complicated territory. the decel valve is also implicated in driveability issues at that exact time, 73-74.

Richard Nixon's imposition of 55 mph speed limit renders fuel economy a moot point.

most cars are going to be a lot more economical at 55, its the efficiency point where air resistance doesn't kick in hard and the engine is just loping along.

after Nov 73, vw and porsche don't have to worry about fuel economy at high speed cruise? there is no high speed cruise (legally speaking).

They bring EC-A back into play and the cars start having that set up. (accords with dr. 914 and his view that EC-A starts in jan 74). EC-A drives a little sweeter?

interestingly - its not hard for dealers to plug and play between EC-A or EC-B.
just pull a hose and plug throttle body advance port. both scenarios are legal as both are california/EPA approved. doesn't matter about the sticker, thats just the way the car comes initially set up. its a legal mod and legal variation. dealers/mechanics would have known for sure how they could play with the car to make a customer happy and stay within the emissions laws.

?????

------

49 state car. this is the hardest one to work out.
reason being they were certainly selling a 50 state car in places other than california -so why have a 49 state car and why sell a 50 state car in a 49 state.
it has advance only on dist and throttle body?
for fuel economy at high speed cruise?
no retard at idle - not necessary - 49 states did not have the harsher standard for curb idle? car does not run as hot at idle either with no idle retard.
the sticker distinguishes these cars not by EC-A or EC-B - it indicates what it is by only having EPA compliance shown on sticker.

??????? more info/research needed on the 49 state car. a bit thin on ground.

-------

A does not equal USA and B does not equal california.
(evidence is that both A and B are California + EPA).

A does not come before B in chronological time.
(evidence and claims by people who would know for sure says B comes before A).

what A and B are is two possibilities for 74 MY in a very difficult time and environment?
A = emissions compliant and superior driveability (might have been subtle?).
B = emissions complaint and fuel economy (has the edge at high speed cruise?).

vw and porsche have the two options up their sleeve.
and flip for B to begin with?
by late november 1973 any "advantages" B has are rendered marginal by nixon 55mph.
A gets introduced back into the picture.

---------

its only a thesis. ready to be pulled apart.

but the 1.8 is interesting in my view because its the first time L jet is used.
and it is born into a first oil crisis and a first pollution crisis.


---------

still don't have an answer to engine paint stamp codes - original question.

but looks like an EC-B could be either a 604 or a 605.

it looks like an EC-A could be a 607 engine stamp? but only one example so far to go off.

My head and brain hurt…..

@StarBear - not as much as mine did trying to work it out.

never understood the retarded ignition at idle until going through this and looking at VanB's problem. (i used to stare at the double vac distributor on my 1.8 30 years ago and wonder WTF it was doing).

everyone focuses on 1.8s as being an emission response design.
which they are.

but we forget the oil crisis.

there was more going on back then than just the EPA killing off engine horsepower.
motoring life got real complicated for six months from oct 73 to mar 74.

Click to view attachment

@StarBear

here is the quick summary version.

EC-B
we have the emission compliant / high speed cruise economy version.
put simply. (its a blunt simplification but its basically what happens).
retard to retard = emission
advance to advance = cruise economy.

EC-A
that is the emission compliant / sweeter driveability off throttle part throttle version.
retard to retard = emission.
no advance = sweeter twisties in the mountains driving.

both are 50 state compliant.
only emission compliance was legally enforceable.
both had to have that.

fuel economy was a free choice strategy.
all they had to do was prove that either versions difference with advance did not adversely effect idle emissions. certification test would have proved that.

fuel economy version only becomes evident in high speed cruising.
by that i mean 80 mph all day on ze indashtaaate.
(some sources say 10%, some as much as 20%, you are going to notice at your wallet).
but difference disappears once you can't do more than 55 mph.
so you may as well go sweet driving option.

my thesis is.
porsche first wanted to do EC-A. the sweet driving. its the purist position.
then they thought again about that because of anwar sadat and his mates in the middle east.
so they went EC-B to begin with.
but 3 months later tricky dicky nixon stepped in anyway and made the call irrelevant when he stopped the fun and made everyone crawl.
so they went to EC-A after all, after xmas. at least you could have fun in the mountains.

------

need EC-A and EC-B version stickers with 49 state certification and intact original hose set up or tune stickers to know what that really is for sure.
but suspect has no retard function activated, only advance function.
and suspect there is an EC-A version of that as well.
already know there was an EC-B version floating around.

-------


once you get your head around the distributor and what its doing with the throttle body,
the rest of the detail above makes sense. that was just me collected the evidence of whats out there. and trying to make sense of it.

funny enough dave darling did make sense of this 10 or more years ago.
but no-one was reading him closely enough.
back then he took everyone at their word, about the different versions,
and just laid it out in practical terms, what each version would do.
he didn't manage to address chronology.

the chronology is the bit that on first glance does not make any sense.
ie. why would B come before A?
thats the bit that was doing my head in.


-----

and i haven't even talked about 75 MY cars.
which all got mixed into previous discussions a long time back on this site.
and that mixing up did not help people sort out question.

but i have worked that one out as well? maybe? its just a guess.

the EC-B which we have.
went on to evolve in 75 and use the advance port on the TB to run the EGR.
one of the benefits of EGR is it not only reduces NOx emission at cruise by making combustion cooler - it gives you a slight increase in fuel economy.
so the EC-B style strategy came back in the 75 cali cars.
retard to retard for emission at idle.
EGR to advance for emission and economy at cruise.

driveability probably went to hell. i don't know. never driven one.

the 75 49 states is a little less clear.
it does not have a cat as the obvious thing.
but i think its got nothing.
its just got retard at idle and thats all.
i need to find more images to study and verify.

Yep; that sums it up nicely! Interested to see with more data on other early-mid 74 1.8s.
Do you have all the info and pics you need for mine?
Meanwhile, I've pulled up the base image that I used for the tuneup sticker; it has just the one (retard) hose as shown here. Really did look like a smudge or Sharpie scribble. With the two variations for 1.8s, I think I'll just keep the "base" version, without the hose(s), so as not to confuse someone who should have two hoses. @Van B
Click to view attachment

where did the image of the tuneup sticker come from @StarBear ?

i take it that was not yours.
someone has an EC-A that provided it?
contact them for details of engine set up?

definitely leave your sticker alone.

From a forum member. Will check back on the thread.
Yeah; sticker is good (and generic) enough.

@StarBear .

Found another one that was for sale at Classic Cars of Sarasota.
(wasn't a bad looking car, looked v original, sold, someone got themselves a good one i think)

VIN 01/74
karmann build date 14 Jan 74.
its 852 cars before mine and built 12 days prior.
(interesting - they built at least 81 cars that day, gives some idea of production levels).

two hose tune up sticker.
orig two hose vacuum hook up still on it.
as per wonki/starbear/van b.

could not read emission sticker, not quite in good enough res/focus.
but - i would say based on the rest of it - is an EC-B as it matches ours

Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment

More interesting stuff.
Found the tuneup sticker thread - at http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...engine++sticker
From member @oakpark but his ID doesn't indicate what car he has and he's not been on since July. COVID or just busy? Oakpark - do you know which car this was from?

BTW, here's his original image that started it all. 2 hoses, 1 port.
The one I started with was from @JeffBowlsby , just a bit further down in the thread. 1 hose, 1 port. Jeff - do you know which car this was from?

Interesting tidbit observation: Even the sticker with the two hoses shows only ONE vacuum can port.
Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment

I dont, sorry. I right click alot and dont recall them all...

Perhaps one/both of you can create the correct vacuum hose diagram for EC-A and EC-B cars?

Thanks, Jeff.
Thinking about updating it - just not sure which arrangement(s) go with for the EC-A car. So far, two variations of stickers: 1 hose, 1 port and 2 hoses, 1 port. Have yet to see any with 2 hoses and two ports. My repro is now more "generic", with no hoses, 1 port.
Click to view attachment

they draw both ports on the dizzy diagrams @StarBear .

i think the one you used as a basis might have had a little distortion from wrinkles.
kind of ended up looking more oval and less like a cylinder tube on your drawing?
you did draw it in though on your repro.

Click to view attachment

too many mysteries yet mr. b

need some more cars to come up. as @StarBear says - the EC-A car.

yet to sight a 49 state car.
but parts book and sticker says they exist like you said.

A thought- lots of members listing early 74s in the VIN database. Maybe contact a few with queries?

good idea

i might put up a separate thread in garage section that is - attention 74 1.8 owners and see if it gets any interest? people might see that, the other one was buried in van b's thread which had a different topic.

@StarBear

found this. maybe of interest.

don't know if anyone nailed down a date they moved vapor can in 73 from the frunk to the engine bay for 74 MY.


NOV 73 VIN 4743908482
karmann # = 4629626 = tues 13 nov 73
has frunk can.

your car is wed 28 nov 73
has engine bay can.

thats the k number and not the day the cans were installed.
but sometime in there.

they managed to build 1,278 cars between the two cars.
in 10 days. average of 127.8 cars a day.
the car i came across was car # 126 for the day.
its got a 6 in the k number instead of a 5
cranking them out.

the car appears to be an EC-B.
its got advance port connections.
california delivered.
haven't stumbled across another EC-A yet.

Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment

Interesting. Good idea with the new thread; maybe in the Originality Forum?
The adventure continues!

another good one i found digging back into sales archives.
maybe a bit over shined and over prepped, but a very intact car.
lots of interesting information aside from TB set up.

thursday 6 december 1973 build.

697 cars after @StarBear car.
a start of the day car - #7 off the line.
6 days between starbear car and this.
= roughly 116 cars per day production. pumping them out!

its an EC-B off the setup of vac line and throttle body type and tune up sticker.
pity dealer did not take a photo of emission sticker/engine tin stencil, took a photo of everything else! it was sold new in cincinatti. not a california delivery.
huge amount of detail, particularly with document file that came with car.


Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment

other firm information of interest to originality for restoration by 1.8 owners -
i'll post up next.

@JeffBowlsby

free first service card.

Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment

i guess most people handed these in at 600 miles and never got them back from dealer?
not in my file for my car. this guy kept everything.

next. some sort of folder/book.
particular to cicincatti porsche dealer?
or is it something a fastidious and proud owner made himself?

Click to view attachment

typical problem and unusual problem.
vapor lock.
side decals failed/peeled - new ones had to be fitted.
usually the 74s had the drop out decals, owner might have changed it to the earlier style because he liked it better?

Click to view attachment

firm confirmation of plumbing to engine bay charcoal can.
another one exactly like wonki and starbear cars.
or is it?
plumbed up VW way, rather than porsche way?
in this car the can appears to be reversed in orientation from wonki car, but the hose layout is the same (with the S curve hose off the fan cowl).
so this one is plumbed porsche way?
my car is after this one, mine is a late jan build.
914 mysteries continue.
found quite a few of these confirming images re plumbing i've found trawling sales of very good condition original cars. this is the first one i have seen where the can is reversed in orientation (see the shape of the end of can). could have been taken out and put back in the other way around - or is evidence of a first installation set up by the factory - more questions. (if you put the can in this way, you would need a longer small hose to join the vapor line to get around to lhs of can. i did not change that hose in my car or alter the can). there are receipts in document files for all the usual work it takes to recommission a car dated 2020. this car sat for a long time somewhere in storage which explains its generally good condition. lots of fuel line work and injectors fuel tank etc done. so can could have come out and gone back in. i've never touched the can in mine.

Click to view attachment

further evidence of 74 1.8 engine bay hose colors.
i noticed that one line off the decel valve on my car was a very faded red or brown color. just one hose. along with green vacuum retard hose off the distributor.
all other hoses were mid to dark grey color.

this car shows clearly. one reddish brown hose off decel. green hose off dist.

original hoses from wonki car (bagged after replacement).
i left the green hose on the dist.

Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment

14 jan 74 car at top of page is exactly same as mine (late jan 74) for charcoal can plumbing and orientation.

Click to view attachment

@JeffBowlsby

after all the info came in from members with 1.8s - and some searching through older BAT ads with lots of detail photos we turned up the following on engine tin number stamps.

by and large 4 numbers.

604, 605, 606, 607.

we have reliable original cars with 604.
these are EC-B (for all intents and purposes established as EPA/49 state).
these cars are 1.8s that came new without the console and gauge pack.

we have reliable original car with 605.
this is an EC-B. this car came with the console gauge pack from new.

(i always thought the 1.8s did not get a guage/console option like the 2.0s but turns out they did, StarBear got one).

we have a reliable original car with 606.
this is an EC-A (for all intents and purposes the california car since it has the CARB approval). this car was a base 1.8 from new with no gauges/console.

i found a detailed BAT ad with a well documented EC-A with 607.
documents show it came new with gauges and console.

we know from parts manual that EC-B came with different throttle body than EC-A.
EC-B definitely had two port throttle body and full distributor hook up.
it seems very likely that EC-A had single port throttle body and only one hose hookup to distributor.

from parts manual the only other difference i can find in 1.8s is provision for guage hookup with engine. the so called Taco Plate.

i think this is a possibility.

EC-B no guage/console = 604
EC-B guage/console = 605
EC-A no guage/console = 606
EC-A guage/console - 607.

we have a spread on these 600 series numbers from 11/73 to 06/74,
so they use them throughout 74 MY production run.

is support of this i found some material for type 1 engines for beetles.
these are stamped with M followed by three numbers.
those codes describe what the engine has in terms of specific carburettors or fuel injection. it meant the right engine came out of stock to be mated with the right fitted out body at the end of the production line.

i think a similar thing goes on with 914s when you look at the factory photos.
the virtually fully finished and fitted out bodies are mated with the suspension and drive train right at the end.

you want the correct engine going in the correct body.
and there are only 4 variables as far as i can tell.
they need to know this as the cars are not really being built in batches.
we have found EC-A and EC-B cars built only a few numbers apart on the line.

IO it turns out is for engines that failed initial inspection and had some rectification required. after rectification they were stamped in order and returned to the line.

there is one other number i found on a BAT advertised car.
it was d370 and the engine looked to be a EC-B.
a good guess might be a replacement engine under warranty?
or something like that.
when i get time to spare at odd moments i'll try and keep searching out these codes.
i have found a fair bit on the ones for type 1 engines.
but the type 4 stuff is not information floating around.

@wonkipop

Wonki...Your research is exhaustive, appreciated and commendable. I need to wade through this in greater detail althought I have been distantly keeping tabs on it all along.

But one thing piques my interest...you identify 4 engine tin codes which are really two sets of two codes that you suggest indicate both with/without the center console and gauges as a prime variable. The EC-A and EC-B designations appear on the emissions sticker so obviously they pertain to emisions in some way. And I like your throttle body/vaccum line arrangement discoveries.

But the center console with its gauges was an optional equipment item that is plug N play and has nothing to do with emissions. All 1974 914s had the same chassis harness with the center console connections in the cabin floor, whether the car was equipped with the console or not. Seems odd that the optional console would be somehow related to the engine tin code.

Your thoughts?

its still a bit of a speculation.

its hard to get a real exhaustive sampling.

between members and what you could find on BAT from old ads i got about 30 reasonable cars on file.
the BAT is surprisingly one of the handiest resources - people take a lot of photos to sell the cars. and sometimes the fluke shots are in there to identify things.

the only way to really know is the VW archive.

i'm going to see if i can find the contact details for the director of the museum and archive. if i do i will write a letter and see if i can interest them in looking into it.
if i lived in germany i would just go and knock on their door and talk my way in.

it was a bit of fun to get this far with it.
thanks to you alerting us to the EC-A or EC-B thing.
didn't even know about that stuff until a few weeks ago.


its entirely possible what you suggest with the plug and play thing.
but its the only thing i can think of where you would want the engines coming from hamburg, already completed to have the right taco plate on.
they were building some cars to order for customers.
i was astonished to find out that some 1.8s came with the guages from the get go and it was not a dealer install item.

its all academic - only so if the numbers go according to my theory.
and its only a theory.

Strangely enough I have two distinct thoughts as I read this:
First, it’s so cool to see the deduction result in a solid theory on OEM coding.
Second, f-Ing VW and Porsche. Neither of them cared enough about this car to enshrine these differences for posterity. But now Porsche is so enthusiastic about claiming this car as their own…

The center console /gauges were just an optional equipment M-code that could be added to any 914 in 1974. The oil temp sender and its cable was part of that M-code and was separate from emissions categorization on the emissions labels.

Unless (?) the tins for the console/gauges cars were just a bit different, like an extra hole or slit for sensor/sender wires to the gauges. Thoughts?