Hi All

Have seen this on an unrestored car…does anybody have anymore details…? I assume the 022 refers to the 1.7L but what about the other number?

Any insight would be appreciated…thanks

Andy

I think most engines had the markings. With all the variations of the type IV engines it was important to positively identify with quick and simple marks like these.
It helps to know the VIN of the car and or the serial # of the engine when posting these photos.
There are other threads, and Geoff Bowlsby has a good set of photos here:
https://bowlsby.net/914/Classic/PLM.htm

Those number are quite different than any I’ve seen. There was a thread on tin numbers 2-3 months ago.

sure look different to mine too.
mine probably look like your 1.8 starbear.

those there numbers in that photo look quite unique. maybe a real early car?

This is what every one I've ever seen looks like (mine), though numbers vary. I think a prior thread indicated they were lot numbers to match tins with the types of engines produced.
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mine looks like that- sort of. number is 604 instead of 605.

the guy with the brush and stencil must have been sober when he did yours.
mine is smeared - stencil slipped?
they drank a lot of beers at lunchtime in hanover in the 70s?

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There was a thread a few months ago. Might make sense of your 604 and my 605 since yours was produced a few weeks before mine so a different lower tin set number. For production allocation and coordination maybe.

I do not believe these were stenciled; it looks more like a stamp to me. Look at the 0 in post 6 above. the center of the character is pretty much void of paint and the character is mostly seen in outline. If you press a stamp hard, you squeeze the paint to the edges and you get an outlined character.

i think you are right. they do look like stamps don't they.

----

i found a thread dating 2006 on this site.
maybe that @StarBear mentioned.
interesting read.

lots of speculation as to purpose.
suggestion about them being inventory stock numbers for engine tin batches.

i looked closely at these photos i had on file from wikipedia.
originally from Bundersarchiv.
VW engine plant at hanover.
looks like engines for 411/412.
photos are low res but you can see just enough.
the stamps appear to go on in the later stages of engine assembly but are not present on tin early in engine build?

doesn't look like its an engine builder team stamp.
seems to be a moving assembly line of overhead slung engine stands moving along.


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Wow! How do you find this stuff? Great job; keep it up!

its part of my real job - historical research.

we got stuck down here in the world's longest lockdowns.
i found a lot of this stuff a year ago "in prison" and filed it away.
i pulled these photos i had and looked at them closely.

the last photo looks to me like production line inspectors going over the engines?
engines look finished.
the guy with the cotton coat on has the classic look of a QA guy.
and at the moment or just before the stamps look like they appear.

the thread i found had some anecdotes from german members here talking about recollections by former VW employees - good stories but didn't gell with these photos or the idea of stamping the engines late in the production build process. if the photos are to be trusted the stamps are not there on tin when delivered from suppliers or sub contractor i d stamps.

i know these stamps were not on type 1/type 3 engines.
i had a german built squareback 40 years ago with the original tin on the engine.
no numbers on that. saw plenty of beetles back then, aus and german built.
no numbers.

interesting stuff.


quirky little detail - in last photo - the timing plugs are not installed.
probably the guy who did the final tune on the engines once installed at the very end of the production line had a pocket full of those and screwed them in at the end of the tune before the car was run on the rolling road.

I have a good colleciotn of these on my webpage. I don know the full story, but they seem t be related to invidual year engine identifications.

The 73-74 1.7 and 2.0 engines also have this stamp I.O. which I am told meant 'in order'. Unverified info.

https://bowlsby.net/914/Classic/PLM.htm

According to my list:

604 is a 1974 1.8L, but I don't know which engine code it is?
605 is a 1974 1.8L EC-B engine code, CA-model
606 over P is a 1974 1.8L EC-A engine code, USA-model

Att 1.8L are EC-code engines but there were sub categories. Look for the label on the drivers side interior engine bay side panel, it will tell you. EC-A, EC-B etc.

i've seen a snatch of footage where you can see a 2.0 L 4 being assembled by one of the engine builders at the porsche factory in stuttgart. but that likely was an early proto engine when porsche were working on the design of the 2.0?

i can't see that bit of tin on my 1.8 without a mirror.
but i think my 1.8 only has the one marking on the LHS side near the alternator port.
there might have been a stamp on the rhs but its not visible anymore if it was.

its interesting that the whole package is there, exhaust system and all.
they would not have been able to do that with the 914 engines due to the exhaust system. probably didn't put that on until it got to karmann and was mated with the gearbox.

ok, my car is a jan build 74 1,8 and it was delivered to maryland.

i've read some stuff on emissions laws in the USA from back in that period that suggests it was not as simple as california and 49 states. i think i came across some stuff that said maryland adopted california smog laws alongside california due to it being basically washington DC. Also i read some stuff about Chicago as a city adopting California standards earlier than elsewhere and having the smog tests enforced equal to LA.

that bit of 604, 605 info is real interesting. i don't have a 606 stamp but its definitely a Maryland delivery.

ok mr. b

mine is an EC-B on that sticker. jan 74 build.

i am pretty sure the ink stamp is 604. you can see photo above.
the last number is very smeared.


hadn't read that sticker closely before.
says conforms to EPA regs for 74 model year.
guess that answers a question i had once.
how did smog laws apply, model year or calendar year.
looks like sticker indicates smog laws effect in USA model year for all cars?


EDIT
looks like starbear got himself a california car?
i got a 49 state car.
but there is also another form of the 74 california car?
so i take back what i say about EPA laws and model years.
starbears got a story about his being karmann plated late in 73 and then vin numbered much later in mar 74 or something like that.
sounds like his could have been a valid order california car that had to get diverted to 49 states due to something going on with california in 74?

i'd always read that the 74 1.8s were a single USA wide conforming model.
i came across that somewhere. basically met california smog laws and they sold them everywhere in continental USA.

Yep; just checked sticker: EC-B. States “California standards applicable to all 1974 cars”.
Always thought mine might have been a CA car. Delivered to Portsmouth VA and dropped off at a dealer in Richmond. It was way in the back and not prepped. The sales folks didn’t know it was there. Couldn’t afford the two 2.0s on the lot and the only 914 was ugly green with Steelers. Ugh. Saw this one way in the back. Might (?) have been dropped off for transshipment to CA, but who knows. I snagged it and the dealer got a sale. ‘Nuff said!

Not sure. JEff’s first post indicates 605 EC-B is a CA car but when included in Wonkipop’s reply it indicates 49 States.

sounds like my sticker is the same as yours mate.
california and all states.

yep -

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i really feel its a batching thing. but thats a wild guess.
my car was karmann numbered late jan and vin numbered 01/74.
its a car that went straight through the system fast.
the engine stamp is a 4 when yours is a 5.
yours is vin march 74 but an early karmann number.
it probably did not finish hard core final assembly until mar 74.

i think the engines were built in batches that were run through the hanover plant.
they would have dedicated days or weeks of the year they ran a batch of 914 engines through. the different batches would have been kitted with the fuel injection components and other things specific to certain cars being assembled off site at other factories.

@JeffBowlsby

slightly off topic.
something is weird about the engine production line photos.

tin wear is 914 tin?
don't think i am imagining this.
buses and 411s/412s had very different tin around the perimeters where it mated with body and around the fan.

some images below.

i could be wrong but i think all the buses and 411s had the coil off the mag fan shroud (1.8s did but not other 914s?).
engines in factory photos have coils on the tin mounting position.

but - they are all fitted with standard VW rear engine exhaust systems and big blocky VW standard heat exchangers.

?????????????

PS - see 411 brochure. I O painted on tin in front of fan shroud.

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mr. b, whats the little silver sticker under the EPA one?
in the photo of mine above you can see a trace of where it was in mine but its not there anymore.

Tellin' yah all I know, which isn't sayin' much.

1974 EC-A and EC-B labels attached.

The one 1975 label attached looks odd to me. I have had the hardest time finding 1975 labels for the 1.8L and 2.0L and this one depicted just looks odd to me, not like the other 914 labels. The source I got it from said it was off his 914 but I wonder if it may be a bus engine or something else (Thing?) Note its not on the 914 sidewall, its on the engine fan housing that a clue to me its not right.

Whats the difference betwen the EC-A and EC-B? Seems to be emissions related.

Review the two charts here and their sources. 1975 1.8L had lots more emissions equip than the 1974 cars. https://bowlsby.net/914/Classic/Emissions.htm

Also a page from the 1975 Service and Training manual is depicted, I think its my only source indicating the EC-A and EC-B. The 914 Service and Trianing manuals for each year are on my website for anyones perusal.

And I;ve added the 1974 CA-model windshield sticker re: emmissions. I dont have one ofthese for the 1975 model.

If anyone has the clear 1975 1.8L or 2.0L windshield emmissions label or the 1975 engine bay sidewall labels please post a good photo here on this thread and Ill add it it the website collection.

All 914 years, all models as far as I know.

mr. b

this is gold.
that sticker.
thats probably what i had as sticker and i have a plastic can in the engine bay.
there is a trace of it in the same spot (can still feel where its tacky).
is it in all the cars all years?

you remember we were pondering the plumbing on the charcoal can set up for the engine bay cars.

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=347951

StarBear and I (engine bay cans) are very sure we have original plumbing in above thread.
which we suggested is plumbed up differently to the layouts for the frunk can cars.
and there is official literature which supports the plumbing for frunk cars and for engine bay cars in their different forms.

an EC-A is a frunk can car with the porsche evap system (plumbing diagrams you have)? frunk can cars come first for early part of 74 model year in 73.
A = first version?

an EC-B is an engine bay can with VW evap system (plumbing diagrams we have)? engine bay cars came after in second half of 74 model year. B = second version?

they did move the can one more time closer to the battery but all the photos i have seen show that its plumbed like the earlier engine bay can in the VW manner. so it would still be an EC-B?

just a thought.

mr b

was there any difference between a cali 2.0 engine and 49 states?

A conditional yes. Depends on how ‘engine’ is defined. Includes FI? exhaust? Emissions equip or tuning? Which model year?

fascinating.

there is nothing in the factory manual i have ever come across that would point to there being a cali 1.8 in 74. you know - no different settings, CO mix etc in the tune up.
no indications or side notes for a cali specific thing.

pretty interesting.

i think there is after that in 75 isn't there? only cali got cats?

did earlier cars/later cars have the same sort of stickers that said both cali and US.
or did cali cars have a cali only sticker to identify them?

Don’t think that’s what the ECA/ECB means.

The S&T manual page posted above is for 1975 models, it lists both ECA/ECB, yet for 1975 all the charcoal cans were in the engine bay.

yep that cans that thought.

the mysteries.

maybe its just something they did to make the prehistoric version of cancel cultural warriors down there in sunny so cal think they were still getting gear that was superior to the rest of the great "unwashed" of the country? (no politics intended - i'm somewhat unwashed).

ps
@JeffBowlsby .

i'm still looking at that factory engine prod line photo.
and thats 914 2.0 engines those boys are making.
you can tell from the throttle body.

don't think any VW engines got that throttle body?
not even 2.0 L bus motors, pretty sure they had the sideways throttle bodies.

i know they are not photos of guys making 912E motors.
they had things on the fan castings to hold smog pumps.

what are they doing with an arse dragger exhaust system hooked up?

74 of course.
inclusive of FI and exhaust.

ok

@JeffBowlsby .

The tech page is from a training manual from 1975.
correct?

that names a A and B version of the EC engine.

and in 1975 there was a difference in the cars for cali and the other 49 states?
cali cars had cats. (min?). egr. etc.
was this equipment on 49 state cars?
i remember reading that cats were phased in stateside due to supply chain production questions. so cali got them first in 75 and rest of america next in 76.

so my proposition is A and B in 75 are because there is two different versions running concurrently. one for cali and one for 49 states.

go back to 74.
i can find no evidence anywhere in anything technical that there is anything other than a USA wide approved 1.8. California and 49 states.

but there is an A and B version.
the stickers you have prove that.
does not mean they are concurrent?
could mean they are chronological?
an engine bay can car is going to have the port on the rhs of blower fan opened up for the hose to the can.
a frunk car has the port on the lhs for the can? i think.

whats the date on the EC-A sticker car? do you have it.

just another thought.

i mean in my game A and B versions can mean a lot of different things.
there is an A and B version side by side.
and there is an A and B version one after the other.

its blowing like a gale down here so i got nothing better to do.
apologies.
the roof is probably going to come off my building soon.

i believe what you are saying is right.
the A and B thing is due to emissions changes or differences.
my thought is that for 74 its chronological.
they shift the can.
its big enough to warrant an emissions approval for variant a and b.
but both versions meet california and all states - as cans are in universally and have been for some time.
in 75 its concurrent?
there is a california specific variant and a 49 states variant? don't know. you would.
what are the stickers like in 75?
do they state 49 state specific only (if don't have cats and not sure about that anyway) unlike the 74 stickers which do say meets california and all states together.

Wonk,

That page from the 75 S&T manual also includes the GC code 2.0L which indicates an -a and -b version for USA and CA market cars. We can be 100% certain thats what those desgnations also mean for 1974.

My head is spinning from all the questions. Answers to several/most of your questions are here, please review.

https://bowlsby.net/914/Classic/Emissions.htm

Thinking about the 1974 labels, like you I am not aware of any difference between the USA and CA cars. I am leaning towards the idea that the 1974 ECA/ECB labels including the windshield label were to satisfy USA and CA emissions labelling requirements, even though physically and mechanically there was no difference with the cars. I have CA-only windlsheidl labels for 1971 through 1976 cars on my site, which suggests that this label probably exists for the 1970 cars too, but I just have not seen it yet.

I have the same questions, in sum, I dont know. Its not 912E, exhaust looks more 411/412/bus wit its passenger side exhaust tip. Its D-Jet FI (ECU connectors visible on several engines). The stampings format on the left and right side of the tin appear to be consistent with 1973-74 2.0L GA code engines (see below) but the stampings are are illegible. The engine tin profile in plan appears to be 914 but could it be something else? The air cleaner bracket appears to be 914 2.0L.

Probably batches. Mine sat around for weeks waiting for engine tins!
Through in CA/49-state confusion and who knows unless someone finds some assembly line notebook. After all, I don't think I even knew that number was there until a year or two ago!

@JeffBowlsby

mr. b

i found this in factory manual.

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you are correct re 1975. it shows up.
small a and b mean USA (49) and California variants of EC engines.

also as commonly accepted for 73
EA = USA (49) and EB = California.

but there is no EC-A or EC-B shown here.
i think EC-A and EC-B means something else besides California or 49.

i went to your site and had a look at your engine sticker section.
you need more stickers from people.
time for an information drive.

i picked up a couple of things from what you had though that were interesting.

1973
EA and EB stickers are identical in terms of stating emission compliance.
says the same as starbear and my 74 stickers.
notes that both EPA and California compliant.
thinking about it both engines would be compliant in terms of california emissions.
only thing about an EB is it is dual fuel and can take 91 RON.
so unleaded requirement in california does not fall under emissions laws.
its another separate requirement that california brings in for new cars?
and it does not show up on stickers distinguishing between california or 49 states.

1975.
engine stickers don't distinguish engines as EC-A or EC-B
the stickers instead refer to ENGINE FAMILY and have two different numbers.
15 and 16 I think.
stickers distinguish between being california and EPA and EPA only.
believe 1975 is in the first year where you do get an emission sticker that says
one is for california (and by default any other state) and another that says EPA only (49 states) on the stickers?

it would be nice to know what car the 74 EC-A sticker is from.
date of manufacture/vin. point of sale.
that would start to unravel the 1974 EC-A and EC-B?
it definitely means something.

i wonder if they ran the engines up on an engine dyno at the factory before they sent them to karmann?

they might have only had an engine dyno set up for vw rear engine configuration and needed an exhaust system on it. 914 exhaust would be cumbersome to support, might have fouled with coupling of dyno to flywheel.

seems a bit wasteful in terms of time.
they could have re-used it i suppose after they were finished.

re profile of engine bay tin.
as far as i know that engine only went in buses, type 4 cars, 912Es and 914s.
profile of the engine bay mating shape is completely different in buses, cars and 912s. i think it can only be a 914 tin.

Here's my engine bay sticker. Clean and clear. EC-B. Body completed 11/73 per driver door jamb; unit completed 3/74 per COA.
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1973 1.7L EB code has lower compression, to meet CA emissoins. Its on your posted chart.

yep.
an EB is a 73 cali 1.7 dual fuel running D jet.

but thats not really an answer as to what an EC-A or an EC-B is in 1974.

......starbear and my car are east coast cars from delivery, but are EC-B.
so its not fitting the logic your using?

i'd like to accept your idea, but its a proposition/suggestion.
so far there is no solid factory evidence that EC-A and EC-B means a cali or a 49 state.
if it did i think it would be in that chart from the factory manual i posted and it would appear in so much other literature. but it doesn't. ever.

there is something to A and B, but its buried somewhere else in documents?
i'm curious now, mainly because its about my car - so i'd like to know.

ok.
when you need primary research material,
few places better than your great website jeff.

in the exceptional cars page.

1974 1.8

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vin 01 74.
californian car (see windscreen cal emission clear sticker).
is an EC-A

wonki's car.
vin 01 74
maryland delivery.
is an EC-B

should be the other way around if B = california and A = 49 states.

A and B must mean something else i think?

my car (late jan) is 1055 cars after this one.

914 mysteries continue...

Good info. @wonkipop looks like your vin number is well after mine, confirming 11/73 as my build date and more confirmation of not-very-useful COA sheet that has manuf date 3/74 and I bought in 5/74.

@StarBear .

mine is 13361 for last 5 digits.

@JeffBowlsby & Starbear.


ok. i found something in the parts book.
mr. b is right, in there there is listed for 74 a 1.8 and a 1.8 (california) for some distinct parts. he is right about cal but i can't find anything that connects them to EC-A or EC-B designation to absolutely say which is which.

(the reason this A and B triggered something mr. b is i was looking at distributors last week for Van B, a few of us 1.8ers were going over cold start hiccups - i saw something then cruising the fac manual and the parts list but it wasn't 1.8 cal or not cal.

first up.
replacement engines as listed in parts catalogue

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2. throttle bodies for 74 1.8
the engine nos. for 1974 EC engines run from EC 0 (zeros) to EC0 037 551.
552 is the first engine for 75 1.8s.
there is a throttle body for CA and a throttle body for USA.
i don't know what the difference is. can't tell from this info.

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3. distributors for 74 1.8s.

factory workshop manual says there is a
022 905 205AA and a 022 905 205AB for 1.8 cars but doesn't say for what year.
parts catalogue says there is only a 022 905 205 AB distributor. no AA is there anywhere. parts cat says there is an AB and an S for 1.8 and that 74s (see engine number range) have an S distributor. assume S is what is called AA in factor workshop manual? so 74 gets a different distributor than 75 but not two different distributors in 74 only 1.

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4. brain
all 74 1.8s have the same ECU.

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so it looks like one difference between what is termed a 1.8 and 1.8 (cali) in 74 is the throttle body.

i'm assuming mine being a maryland car is a 74 1.8 (USA). and the sticker says its EC-B
its got the advance and retard two hose set up from TB to both sides of dist. vac can.

the mystery continues.

Wow...I think you are on to something. I dont knwo 1.8L throttle bodies. Wonder if the 1.8 owners brain trust can survey their car for the TB ports and dizzy PN.

Great job...

there is another coincidence @StarBear .
My car was purchased by Jeremy and Delores of Dixon Hill Maryland in May 75 i believe.
thats the date on the delivery inspection in the glovebox manual. just in time for summer.

same as you mate!

Will check mine. Pretty sure the dizzy (original) is AA. Have been keeping my eye out for a backup but have never seen one.

all right youz two
@JeffBowlsby & @StarBear .

part # on throttle body of mine.
022 133 067A
with a H above it.

wouldn't you know it - does not accord with parts catalogue #022 133 062 H.
except for maybe the H bit, sort of.

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this made me think someone's whacked in a replacement throttle body before i got it.
did a search on web, threw up a lot of stuff that has already gone down on this website 10 years ago. you have already brushed up against this one before jeff.
everyone got a headache out of it back then and no one had their head around it except dave darling and capn krusty.

point 1.
turns out the part# on my TB is right. same as other 74 1.8s so something short circuits in the parts catalogue where VW does a part number resequence or whatever for the 1.8s and its not in there right.
the parts catalogue is right for D jet 1.7 TBs PN. they do have the 022 133 062 number - i inspected a random ebay photo .

point 2.
in that thread from 10 years back someone posted a 75 1.8 with throttle body part #
022 133 067C. it was a cali i believe with EGR etc.
i conclude that the 1.8s have throttle body part #s that are 022 133 067 followed by a Letter for region/chronological variant identification.

there are at least 2 versions an A in 74 and a C in 75.

i can't read my distributor PN at the moment.
i need a magnifying glass hooked up to a robot to crawl down there and read it.
tried taking a photo. just blurs.

what this survey would need from owners of 1.8s is

as suggested above the PN of dizzy and TB.
but also the pic of the engine bay sticker (EC-A or EC-B).

------

its possible that the 1.8 throttle body PN cast in is an audi part #?
VW part # in the catalogue might correspond or equate via internal code.
its got audi symbol cast in as well as VW.

OK; Here are my "unmolested" 1.8L data:
1. 74 MY; Build date 11/73 door jamb sticker
2. EC-B Engine sticker
3. Dizzy: Bosch 231-181-009; VW 022 905 205AA (my notes show VW superceded by 205S). Two-port vacuum can.
4. Throttle body has no visible part number, particularly in same location as @wonkipop ; not under the collar by the ribbed air intake tube. It "may" be on the underside between the vacuum advance/retard hoses, but just replaced that gasket a few months ago (after 47 years) and really don't want to open it back up again. Maybe (?) that may be a significant determination?
@Big Len: What do you have on yours? @BigLen @Big_Len "@Big Len"
5. ECU: VW 002 906 201G ;Bosch 0 280 000 103
Photos:
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@StarBear . distributor superseded PN is handy info. explains throttle body PN difference in parts catalogue. PET i have is dated 2010. throttle body in PET is a superseded PN from somewhere else in the VW range for the original TB?

photo of your TB shows it is exactly same as mine (at least on visible half).
i'm guessing you never changed your TB - you are in the fortunate position of absolutely knowing. mine could be a replacement during first owners stint.

i went and had a look at the 411/412 catalogue at VW classic.
you know about that one. on the german VW website.
hidden on the website are old catalogues.
but the PN catalogues are for euro 412s. exclude the USA catalogues.
so only earlier D Jet 1.7 and twin carb 1.8 parts, no L jet parts.
guess only USA 412s ran L jet?
those catalogues do have the original part #s for things at the time of production.

thinking thats why the AAV is listed in the PET i have as a 944 PN.
944 AAV is now NLA. but if i could find a 944 PET of recent date i'd probably be able to get to a replacement AAV and it would be good for a 914 as well?