The DOT sticker I have on my door doesn't look like what I see on other 1975 914's. The PPS said my car was Equipped for California. This is what the current sticker looks like:

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Was this done just for California?

Thanks,

DaveB

Is it possible just because it was printed with black background instead of silver, they switched the order on the different lines of print? My 01/75 sticker (in silver) has the exact same text and numbers, just rearranged. Maybe someone with knowledge of originality knows better on here.

one from my files. 75 1.8 from a cali car.
yours looks aged is all? under clear coat?

75MY made in 74 seemed to have vin sticker same as 74 MY, different text arrangement.

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and i put up a thread inquiring for historic info on 75 1.8s.
is your car a 1.8.
if so got any of this info on it.

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=358211

I put up a California tag, but wrong year .

Here's my MY74 (early) sticker. Silver and with little scallop cuts. Has anyone else seen a sticker with these cuts? I'm the original owner so I know it hasn't been replaced (removed to paint the sill, hence the tears, then put back on).
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Here is my list of safety compliance labels for your comparison: https://bowlsby.net/914/Classic/PLM.htm

There were minor differences from year to year. Made in silver and black versions - silver for dark color cars, black for lighter color cars - contrasting for legibility. All had the anti-tamper circular perforations.

Excellent qualtity repros are available now, no need to preserve the originals.

@JeffBowlsby ; Do any of the repros have the anti-tamper circular perferations? Important to me as I'm keen on keeping the originality (even the lightly cracked dash and modestly faded carpet).

See my PM to you.

Jeff thanks. I didn’t realize why there was a color difference. Is there anyone that makes a decent repo of this style? Most of what I see is for 74 or earlier styles. I like to replace mine since it is partially painted over.

In the USA, did the 1975 forward door stickers have a catalytic and no catalytic converter sticker too near the DOT sticker?

Thanks!

DaveB

thats an interesting question about the cat sticker for 75.
i've collected some stuff trying to do a bit of research on 75 1.8 L jets.
come across some very original cars on BAT and auction ad documentation.
including the very original looking 1.8 that sotherby's sold a few years back.
and none of those calif 75 1.8s i came across had the cat sticker next to the vin sticker.
and their vin stickers and door jambs were in excellent condition.
also never come across any non-catalyst stickers on some 75 49 state cars that were in original and very good to excellent condition (unrestored) in ads.

but i have seen 76 MY cars with that sticker, both cat and not cat versions.

someone here would know more.
like @JeffBowlsby

The CA 1.8L & 2.0L had cats but I have not seen the cat/non-cat label on the 75 cars, been looking for years. I am beginning to think the label was only a requirement for the 76 914s.

There are other labels for the 75 cars I have not found. :thinking:

Here is my 49 state, Chicago Ohare entry '75. Original and untouched.

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Cool, thanks. Can you post the emissions label from the engine bay drivers side wall above the relay board, or sometimes on the engine tin, and the three big white numbers on the engine tin?

ok @drem914

now that i have got hold of you out of the ether.
need some info on your car if its a 1.8
looks to be prime material/condition.

see my thread asking the questions.

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=358211



EDIT - i see mr b has bolted in and is going for the important one, those stamp nos on engine tin. he is on it.

Wasn’t planning on jumping into this thread until I saw that both @StarBear and @drem914 have a silver tag while I have a black tag one month after starbear and 13mo before drem!

I used to think the silver or dark was a date thing, but now I wonder if you got a light or dark tag based on the color of your car?!

Thank you @wonkipop . The car was indeed a 1.8L, 49 state car delivered in Chicago. It still is mostly original aside from the major changes of a 5-lug conversion and bigger 16x7 Fuchs, re-covered seats and an exterior respray. I still have my original 1.8 with FI, but it was pulled from the car and crated for posterity to maintain the matching numbers lineage. I currently have a 2.2-4 that is currently in the engine bay. I will attempt to photo the stickers and numbers you are looking for when I can get a chance to open up the crate. The VIN tag is original. The painter asked if I wanted to remove during the paint prep and replace with a repro after, but I preferred to keep the original instead. Please pm me with any questions. I'll check out you thread and provide any info I can.

thanks mate.

no rush, when you get time.
sounds like your car has a bit more punch these days.
......and it came from chicago. love chicago.

Well this is odd. One month before my car was produced, they were using a different sticker style. I wonder if they wanted to use up what they had in-house and then started the new sticker in the 02/75 lots. But - the other example that matches mine is a California car. Could they have applied these to CA cars only in 75 and it was the indicator for a catalytic converter equipped car?

Based on what @JeffBowlsby was writing, with my car being Ancona blue, the sticker should have been silver like yours. But mine is black. It is almost like they just used whatever was available.

DaveB

they were post war germans mate.
even in 1975.
never waste anything?
do the change when the old ones are used up?

my business partner is of german descent.
his father grew up as a young boy right after the war in germany.
i love listening to the stories his old man tells.
and some of them are not such great stories.
like crashed plane wrecks with skeletons still in them.

they threw nothing out those people.

they would have used up all their stickers?

as to being contrasting colors with body color.
maybe.
you would have to stack up a whole lot of consecutive cars together to ever know what the pattern was.

the point is you face the quandry of all trying to get originality.
and the answer is it cannot be recreated it can only be preserved.

i would keep your original sticker in situ if you want originality.
its there with all the passing of time and its effects.

or just accept that a renovation is a renovation and a recreation.
which is ok too. but a different thing.

i'm going with the idea that all the best colors had black stickers.

a bit like howling wolf versus frank sinatra.

my sticker is black.

BTW - Are there any examples of the sticker you posted in silver? I'm wondering if they were all black. Or silver is the new black. I only go back as far as Netflix.

DaveB

i'll go back through my files and see if there is a sliver one in what i found.
the text layout will be the same as the one on your car or the one i posted.
you have got an original sticker on yours already - no worries.
they just changed the color of the background for whatever reason depending on the car color or whatever the theory is.
they must have done the new sticker layout sometime in late jan 75.

Hehehehe. A riot.
It’s my understanding, from Mr. B if I recall, that in general silver used on dark colors and black on light colors. But not always, apparently……

Given the punch dot style, it had to be based on best contrast so the sticker can be read. What I wonder though is whether it was truly determined in a German fashion or if some Italian kid was working the VIN sticker station and picked the silver or black based on his own interpretation lol…

thanks mate.

no rush, when you get time.
sounds like your car has a bit more punch these days.
......and it came from chicago. love chicago.




Thanks, yes it does now go up the hill with a bit more vigor. Don't know how it got from Chicago to San Francisco and finally down to Orange County, in the 10 years in between, but would like to.
I tried contacting the orig. owner, with George Hussey's help from his database, but never got a call back after a couple of voice mails left. Still looking for an original Porsche at O'hare license plate frame, if there are any out there.

@DaveB

found a silver one in my files for you.
right time period, right text.

i can't disagree with that.

same color.

this one the italian sticker kid did?


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he got poached by ferrari.

and the turkish kid got his job.

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looks like he was on the beers and got laid the night before.

Those two cars show that there is truly a limit to German quality control!

Someone gave negative zero shits on that second car! It’s so “Wonki” you know it has to be the real deal

My 76 mostly original paint car I sold to Dax in begum that was a CA car shows the vin sticker and the misaligned silver Smog sticker for CA

Sorry that the picture is not that good but there you have it.

Bob B
Click to view attachment

I bet if someone wanted to, they could make list of paint colors for each year, and the pattern of either silver or black labels assigned to each specific chassis color would become evident. Two different shades of red do not establish a pattern.

those two 75s i put up are the same shade of red.
one is black and one is silver sticker.

see the post before for DaveB with 75 silver sicker.
see the post below with the other 75.

the 76 is a different red i believe with its cat sticker.
but the other two are the same.

i've seen a couple of other examples where both stickers are used on the one color.
i'm pretty sure i have come across a phoenix red 74 with a silver sticker, but my phoenix red has a black sticker.

silver would not work so good on white.
i think it was not necessarily hard and fast with some of the colors and they could use both stickers.

i also have a feeling that scrambling sticker colors kind of lends itself as well to security anti tampering measures. the factory might have had a log? does anyone know how it was intended that these stickers worked as a security feature - in terms of US law that is - and what other car makers did. where these a kind of universal sticker or are they particular to VW. there was nothing like them here in australia.

I have about 165 of the 914/4 DOT compliance decals, and have found 5 varieties in two colors (Black & Silver) each. Type 4 is quite rare, and was used for perhaps just 5 weeks in Jan 1975 and the early part of February. There are several errors known, some more spectacular than others. They were used in the USA and Canada, with Canada getting a small additional label. The CAT and NON-CAT decals were only seen in 1976 model year. Here are the 5 types:

couldn't wait, went off and searched out answer to my own question.


USA is fantastic.
all this stuff back in time is retrievable directly from govt. archives on line.

NHTSA section 567.
came into effect 1969.

for all you guys,
your legal vin plate is the sticker in the door jamb.
not the plate in the front trunk or anything else.
its the door sticker the feds recognize and mandate.

the stamped plate in the front was an unregulated plate (in the eyes of the USA Fed authorities) that many manufacturers had been doing off their own bat for decades before. used by registration authorities in other countries, like europe or australia, or even the individual states of the USA prior to 1969 to identify the vehicle but not regulated by the law or an act of parliament/congress etc in those countries.

now i get it.

all manufacturers in the USA and importing manufacturers conformed to this label law after 1969 for the USA by either riveting a plate in the door or doing what porsche and VW with a tamper proof label in the door. the NHTSA act specified you could do one or the other.

everything printed on the label is word for word mandated by NHTSA 567.

and the letters have to be in contrast to the background.

so -----> there would have been a little bit of leeway for some porsche colors with their stamped labels in terms of contrast and not with others i suspect.
so you could probably get away with a silver or black label on some cars and do either, but not others. possibly why its not hard and fast with certain cars as to what color label.

heres the act in original form.

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moral of the story.
technically under federal law you should not be tampering with that label.
because thats the VIN plate in america. the one and only.
and if you do, you were supposed to order a replacement through a registered company with authority to make a replacement. via the dealer.

above is interesting in relation to a BAT car that @Jett pointed out in another thread.

technically that car is incorrectly titled?
the vin in that case under fed law is the Vin sticker.

but i'm not a lawyer or a registration authority.

so DaveB's original usa vin plate/label is a rare one.
doesn't have germany written on it when VAG was on the top line.
fascinating. lesson - never assume anything?
didn't spot that and thought it had worn off his sticker or was lost in reflections/overspray.
never seen that particular one without germany on it.
thanks for visual run down of all the types.

history.
always tells a story, what the story is often hard to say.
but ......there will be a reason even if trivial.
in this case i'm guessing the feds stepped in around early 75 and said you had to include country of manufacture origin or location of company hq.

there is a bit of a blurb around importers in the original act.
and them having to be on stickers.
which they are not on most of the VW or 914 vin stickers.
the importer would have been VW North America?
a kind of subsidiary of Volkswagen.
they must have got tackled on that?

As I recall Porsche reassumed a controlling interest in the 914 in late 1974, so I wonder if the change in labeling was related to that?

You’re the MAN, Jeff! Thanks for all you do around here!

Late 74 is also the moment in time that the front trunk chassis plates replacing the rear trunk stamped numbers, and the plastic fuel expansion tanks showed up.

labels seem to change across entire VW range, consistent with 914s.
its a VAG thing?

VWs get germany on the label like 14s.
later germany changes to west germany, have seen that on 79 beetle label.

Click to view attachment

also - whatever is on the vin label is mandated by USA feds.
you couldn't make up any or add extra words.
even specified exact ht of letters.

if they had to add in germany, the feds told them to do it.
germany versus west germany thing is interesting.
that would be unrelated to VW - something to do with germany's official name in international law/relations. i read about that once somewhere but can't remember exactly how it all went in terms of official names for east and west germany in cold war era.

i'm guessing if you searched hard enough you would come across VW fed vin labels exactly matching all the different types of 914 labels that davep has listed above.
including the rare one he points out. probably for approx same time period.

also 911 labels of same era. probably germany appears right about the same time.
VW north america were handling the import of 911s into the USA and distribution?

thats interesting too.
front trunk riveted plate replacing stamped trunk numbers is karmann adopting VW practice. VW had been putting the body/production number on that small riveted plate across its entire range since 1970 (except for 914s). even karmann built beetle convertibles and ghias had the rivetted plate since 1970.

you are right that when it changes in 74 its because porsche now controlled the marketing. but i think its in a back to front way. the car was finally recognized as pure VW manufacture. ie no more 914/6s or shared platform across two distinct car companies. which could have been why the riveted plate had been left off since 1970. porsche did not want that recognizable vw plate on its 914/6s? instead wanted the fancy karmann plate which some earlier karmann built 911 bodies had. and back when vw and porsche started the project i think they all assumed the 6 would be a lot more successful than it ended up being. it would have been an early protocol. its a wonder they did not bring the riveted plates in for 73.

EDIT
ps
i did find something about that riveted plate on other VWs when i was looking for those wacky numbered 75 914 karmann plates that @MCShack had spotted.

its got to do with how VW were making their mainstay cars. beetles, buses and type 3s.
those cars had floor pans and separate bodies. i think the floor pans had their own production number as did the bodies. VW introduced a protocol that meant when the two came together halfway down the production line already highly assembled as distinct halves of the car, the whole thing received the production plate at that moment and it was riveted on. easier to do on the moving production? dunno. i'm not sure how true that account was. its kind of not so relevant to uni body cars like the ghias, or 412s or 914s. or even sciroccos. but they introduced it and did it across their range. the 914 was the last car to go over to it.

and what your car is showing bob is that all cat/non-cat labels are silver.
no need to worry about the contrasting background color thing - no stamping out holes.

looks like the "turkish apprentice" was given strict instructions on how to achieve the effect.
line one up with inner door jamb. other with outer edge.
set up ex mm from bottom of vin.
despite our jokes it is pretty germanic.

one more absurd detail.
the VW riveted plates always had the paint code on them as well.
stamped vertically at the start of the plate in rotated letters.
i think the 914s left that off.
paint code stamp stayed on the karmann plate they retained in the door jamb?
must have been a fantastic bureaucratic exercise by managers sweating over that plate.

here you go mr b.

911s solder on with earlier VW type layouts - identical to VW apart from having Dr. Porsche AG etc instead of Volkswagen AG. 75 914 labels are not matching these.
they match VW labels from 75 on.

porsche probably using up their box of Vin labels given they didn't pump 911s out the door like VW did with beetles.

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how you tell a restored 911 has a replacement label.
porsche were not using the term west germany in 75. they were in 79
its not on an original vin sticker from the 74-75 period.

Click to view attachment

vw were using west germany around 79 too. also not using that term in 75.
but did slip in "germany" right around that time.

---

have not seen a porsche vin label with just germany written on it like VW did.

i looked into it again to remind myself what that was all about.

prior to 1968, west germany had a formalised understanding with east germany that there was one german nation and they were divided. they settled on/or used the terms western germany and east germany. i think a modification was that east germany was something like the socialist democracy or socialist republic of (east) germany or similar.

in 68 east germany broke the agreement - announced it did not recognise west(ern) germany. they characterised west(ern) germany as a foreign country and not german. in response west(ern) germany reacted in some quarters by adopting the simple name of germany. (ie get stuffed east germany we are it).

at some point by the late 70s they resolved and agreed again that west germany or western germany was recognized and that each other were part of a "greater" divided germany.

i'm sure somehow all that played out in what they wrote (or didn't write) on those labels and manufacturing plates. and whether to put it or not put it on for risk of offending/rebuilding relations with the eastern half. a diplomatic episode.

the west germans were ALWAYS focussed on re-uniting germany. from the minute it was divided after WW2. tenaciously and diplomatically. the east germans less so (in official govt terms).

learned all this from my grandmother and had forgotten half of it.

when i was younger i used to talk about west germany.
she would always say don't call it that, its germany.

most folks think the terms western germany, germany and west germany were loosely used throughout the post war period.
not so.
there is a chronology.

it goes.
western germany. then germany. then west germany.
the words are important because they mean subtlely different things.
except for the use of germany alone which was strident and occurred for a time from the middle to later 60s and until the mid to later 70s.
a period sometime after the berlin wall goes up and disappears from use and reappears again after reunification.

i'm digging into this now.

a question for the expert.
@JeffBowlsby .

is it true that 1976MY 914s do not have the stamped metal manufacturers ID plate that 74 and earilier 914s have on the side of the headlight bucket and then shifts to the front firewall near the petrol tank on the 75 914s?

I dont think of my self as any kind of expert, just a guy interested in the details.

Yep to the question. VIN 4762901920

The stickers aren't misaligned. The one with the VIN is aligned with the inside guide (the door gasket) and the one about the catalyst is aligned with the outside guide (the bend in the sheet metal). Makes perfect sense. LOL

@JeffBowlsby

This is one of the three VIN and Chassis numbering questions that I have been trying to determine. I agree and think it was narrowed down to 04/74 to 05/74 where I started finding a Chassis tag in the front trunk recessed spare tire area below the right headlight bucket. The same thing goes for not finding the Chassis No. stamp in the rear trunk floor near the passenger side taillights which were closer to the rear trunk lock in earlier years. I have no idea when that change occurred, so I may have to add that to my list of VIN and Chassis numbering projects.

What to make of this label?

@JeffBowlsby

thanks for that answer on stamped metal manuf. plate jeff.

question prompted by karmann built vw beetles i looked at after @MCShack brought up the strange k numbers of some 75 MY 914s.

i noticed the stamped metal manuf plate disappeared off beetles.
it was in a highly visible position in the front trunk.
disappeared for 76 MY beetles.
thought at first these were cars that lost them during restoration.
but every beetle sales documentation i came across did not have them.

i looked at some standard beetles made at wolfsburg.
the plate disappeared on those too.

the following thoughts would only apply to cars bound for the USA market.

VW dropped the old style metal manufacturers plate during or at the end of the 75MY across the range. it introduced a new style plate with the water cooled cars coming in.

i believe what happened is that VW stopped putting two similar plates/labels on american market cars at the end of 75MY.

instead those cars got the Vin sticker label only.
it had the legal status in the USA anyway, the other old style metal plate was redundant.

all the way up to the end of the 75 MY the metal plate had stamped on it
MADE IN GERMANY. the vin label lacked country of origin during 70-74/5 MY.

the reason they redesign the layout of the vin label to give themselves space at the top is to include country of origin. since they are going to get rid of the manuf plate.

again, this is only USA cars.
I believe other VW models, including the ROW 76 914 would have retained the manuf plate. i'm guessing the plate went over to a new design.
i'm further guessing the new designed of the plate was the same or similar to what i have seen on golf mark 1's in the UK.
but i have never seen a 76 ROW 914.
i don't fully understand the whys of that - but i believe its possible that just like the USA adopted the Vin Label dictated by law in 69, the european countries (EU market) adopted their own standardised Vin system in around 76 and the old manuf plate was not up to the standard. ROW cars up to that time only have the manuf plate.

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early golf manufacturer (or is it euro vin?) plate.
this might be a repro but they are something close to this.
a 76 ROW 914 probably had something resembling this and likely in the front trunk?


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MADE IN GERMANY.

this is how it goes with the VW manuf plate or later vin labels across german built range.

up to end of 1964MY - MADE IN WESTERN GERMANY

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from 65MY to end of 75 MY (approx) - MADE IN GERMANY

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after this point old manuf plate ceases.

USA Vin Labels - GERMANY. (only name of country, drop the term "made in").
from late in 75MY until end of production of 914s.
courtesy of DaveP's run of 914 Vin Labels posted previously.

Click to view attachment

by 79MY - on german built VW range it becomes - WEST GERMANY.
not sure when the change in name happens at what model year.
but by 79 it has happened.

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________

the rare vin label.
as davep has shown us, there is a rare label.
looks like the one with germany on it at the top line but does not have the name of country in yet.

its either a mistake label. and it could be.

or.

its a registration of a short moment in time where there is hesitation about what should go there. what is the name of the country?
the discussions were happening around this time in (West) Germany.
so at first the labels get nothing. (don't need to, still have manuf plate in frunk).
then they settle on GERMANY as they have been using it since 1965 (though its offensive to the East Germans and had led to the blow up in relations in 1968/9). and then shortly after that maybe a year, two years later, it goes to WEST GERMANY (the name that was finally acceptable to both East and West Germany.

the davep collection is fantastic.
that one sticker that only lasts a little while with the space ready for the name.
there will be i have no doubts plenty of other models across the VW range that recieved that label for a short time during the 75MY.

and then Germany appears a little forlornly for a couple of years.
because something has to go there.
and then you get WEST GERMANY.

------

all the badges and plates on 914s are a great little record of history.
the old karmann plate looking like it was unchanged since some time in the 50s.
WESTERN GERMANY.
the manuf plate which was provocative and is a response to the berlin wall and the high point of the cold war.
GERMANY.
then usa vin labels which are kind of coy and have nothing - until they have to.

if the 914s had lasted a few more years they would have worn WEST GERMANY on the vin label.
did not quite make it to that point in time.

-----------

i think thats the reason the vin labels get redesigned.
nothing to do with porsche vw company internal relations over a sub contracted car agreement.

1976 914s were USA market only. No ROW 76 914s.