Last years Musr was just about the best time I've had in a 914 in my 30 years of 914 ownership. 25 914's on the highway in line was one of the most awesome sights I've ever seen. We've been planning the return trip since we got back last year.
Today my dreams were shattered. I lost # 2 cylinder on Monday. Fire is good, injector has good spray, valves are adjusted right. All the basics were checked and rechecked. Purchased new compression tester today(damn I hate it when tools disappear), and the news is not good. 1 thru 4 read like this; 135,30, 90,135. Checked # 2 first. Read zero. Freaked out. Checked the rest and came back to # 2. After about 5 revs, it jumped to 30, but that was it. Gave a squirt of oil in all cylinders and no change. I have two heads in the shop that are supposed to be ready next week. If I'm capable of a monster garage thing, The 914 will make the trip. Besides intake/exhaust, and head gaskets, what parts will I need on hand to do the head swap? Can I get them in a week?

All info will help.

Heart broke in T town, Curt

I have had many problems, and like most here, I can surely empathize with how that makes you feel.

Sorry man, it's one of the most stressful things I know of, engine trouble.



M

We don't use the head gaskets anymore so leave those out.


Dropped seat maybe??

Geoff

Dropped seat is my guess also damn it!

Dropped seat "usually" has zero read and would not cause the other cylinder to be low as well.....could be rocker arm issues.....

30 is #2. 90 is # 3. Different sides. How would rocker arms affect this?

Missed that...thought they were on the same side....

If it makes you feel any better I am pulling mine as well. Rings are bad and the trans has a nasty clunk from too many burnouts.....

Hey Curt... what a bummer. You'll have a happy day soon tho hang in there buddy
bruce

Get the engine out this weekend. I have 2 cars without engines as I type this. Both of them will run this weekend. Neither of them have engine tin..and one of them has no heads.

Call the machine shop tomorrow and make sure the heads will be done before 5pm so you can pick them up.

You can do this.. and we can help. I can walk you thru a top end rebuild (I'm fresh off of two of them)

First.. get the thing cleaned up at the car wash (underneath).. take brake cleaner with you and a floorjack.. then yank everything out. Get it to the point that you have all 4 bolts loose and call up a buddy to physically help you lower the engine on a floorjack... you can actually do everything you need to do without removing the engine/tranny from the floorjack.


I want to see you at the MUSR.


B

Brad,

please kick my ass like that every day! with motivation like that 914s will be roaring to life cross country.

jbb

Locals make fun of me.. they call me the "Tony Robbins" of the 914 world.

Do you want me to list off all the tools needed to pull the engine/tranny ??



B

Making a harbor freight run this weekend (my drivetrain is already out). planning on a drill press and part washer. can you run acetone or toluene (think sniffing glue) through the hf part washer motor?

jbb

Yes.. you can run anything you want thru it.. they are cheap to replace...LOL

B

Sorry Curt - i wasn't trying to hijack this thread. Brad's right, go for it!

I will be in Hot Springs, come hell or bitching customers. I may be in the truck, but I will be there.
I've r&r'd motors before, so I have all the tools. I plan on taking extensive pics and notes for the FI reassembly. I know where most everything goes. The big thing will be if I can kick my machinist in the ass, and get the heads.

Thanks for the words of encouragement, Brad. I'm sure I will be contacting you for much info. A list of necessary parts to have ready would be the first thing. I will remove the engine this weekend, and have it ready for the swap when I get my heads.

All this said, I'm still assuming its only the heads and doesn't need rings, since the oil in cylinders didn't help.

Jeff, I have to go for it. Just don't have two grand to let Rennsport Tulsa do it for me.

Being a person who is stubborn, obstinate, and hates to admit defeat, I rechecked the valves on #2(for the fourth time) Hey, intake was tight! Loosened it up, and compression went right to 90. Still to low on two and three, but better than 30, and does indeed indicate valves. Could be it wasn't fully closed when I set it yesterday, but not likely. Exhaust was on the money.

Lots of work going on today, so I won't be able to button it up till tonight. I will see if we're hitting on all four, let it get good and hot, and recheck vlave when it cools off to see if it's moving.

What kind of noise should I hear, if any, to incicate a loose seat?

It will be a horrible noise. You'll now when its dropping a seat.

Thanks for jumping on this.. I want to see YOU and your 914 at the event. Not you and your truck.


B

I just run mineral spirits in my parts washer. It works well, is cheap, and readily available.

I did this at the suggestion of an old school mechanic...

By the way, I agree that is a HORRIBLE noise....It was so bad I almost cried....getting teared up thinking about it. Well, thinking about the new heavy breather I'm putting in to replace it helps....

If you don't mind, please and thank you. My engine comes out Monday and it's the boy's first 914 job. That'd be a handy list for him to have.

I can't offer you any technical advice, but I surely do feel your pain. Hang tough, Curt.

You can rebuild it - you have the technology!

Well, sometimes when a valve seat drops, it sounds like "THWACK!" That's the sound of ~1/8" of valve clearance from having the seat be out far enough to keep the valve from closing.

Sometimes when a valve seat drops, it doesn't sound like much of anything at all. The occasional "soft" sounding backfire through the intake, as the burning charge gets past the leaking intake valve... But you'll notice the thing is only running on three cylinders. The starter will crank unevenly as well. "RR-RR-RR-..-RR-RR-RR-..-" That's the "poor man's compression test", there.

Every once in a while, a dropped valve seat will make a "thump! bang-bang-BANG-BANG-WHAM-WHAM-WHAM-CRASH!!!!" noise, as it pops the cap off a rod and then uses the flailing rod to make splinters out of your crankcase.

Note that all of these different types of dropped seat have noises that are made afterward that are identical. "OH GOD NO NOT AGAIN YOU STUPID ****ING PIECE OF ****! I AM GONNA BLOW YOU UP WITH DYNAMITE AND ...." Usually followed by the sound of tools being thrown around the garage.

BTW, you can strip a complete engine down (from complete FI'd motor to bare engine with the heads off it) in 3 hours by yourself, cursing the whole time, and never repeat yourself once. I have a witness to this fact.

--DD

Ok, everything is disconnected(I hope), mounts are loose, and it will come out in the morning. Seems a lot easier than last time, since I kept my notes. Still needing that parts list to make this thing go right. Talked to the machinist this morning and he assured me the heads would be ready first part of the week.

I can do this, I can do this, I can do this...

No.. you should be saying (I will do this).

Stay on it. DD is correct. You should be able to drop the engine and have everything off of it in 3 hours or so.

Clean clean clean.



B

I'm awaiting a bud to come over this morning to help with the drop. I actually think I could do it myself, but no need to take chances. Will post pics as soon as it's out.

Only spent 2 hours unhooking everything last night, and I had to stop now and then to supervise my son who was changing a wiper motor in his Ford truck, and to empty a bud can or two or three.

This would be simple with a lift and a tranni jack.

I now know that this thing is going to happen, and my spirits are much higher than a few days ago.
Thanks for the words of encouragement.

Keep the tech advice coming.

Hey! I know the rest of that song!




M

I've been following this post with foreboding interest...
ever since I began AX-ing it's in the back of my mind "something (could) happen "
then, how'm I gonna get home? Guess I'd have to inact the ol' towing ins. coverage, eh?
Maybe, since I thought about it, it won't happen
New Mantra:
Nut'ns gonna happen Nut'ns gonna happen Nut'ns gonna happen Nut'ns gonna happen
bruce

No need for a lift..or a tranny jack. Once you have done this same job at the race track 3-4 times and thrashed all night to make a race.. this is NOTHING. You have 2 weeks before the event and you live close to it. Quit your whining and FIX the car... sorry I'm jealous that I'm not standing there helping you drink the beer.



B

Motor is out and apart.16 pics coming up let me load them all before comments begin please.

#1

another of my shop. about 800 feet of my 10,000 foot cabinet shop is reserved for the 914's

#4 cylinder

#3 cylinder

forklifts are good!

me and my motor

Hmm, how does that come off? Look at all that curly hair! not bad for 54!

24 pounds of unneeded crap

custom muffler that was on the car when I got it.

two glass packs! looks like shit, sounds great!

#3 on bottom , #4 on top

#2 grandson. Always glad to lend a smile

Now to the damage, # 2.

Another angle

This is the cigar I'm goin to smoke when this is all done.

Ok, last post.
I see an engine running way rich. It was caused by a faulty mps. I see lots of leakage from the heads.
Most heads I've pulled off have been hard to break the bolts loose. These came off with a 3/8" rachet , no cheater bar, and not much effort.

That appears to be a dropped valve seat. Damage was not catastrophic at least, i.e. rod through the case....

Also, maybe it is the angle of photograph, but a few of those cylinders look highly polished inside the bores. How old are they? Are you looking at doing a top end?

Did this harm the rod bearing or the cap? how can I tell?

The car has 113,000 miles. As far as I know, this is the first time it's been into.

Its hard to say if it did any more damage with out going further into it. At 113,000 miles, Id be inclined to do a full re-build in the near future. By the looks of the pic, I wan to say it did not do much, if any damage, because your valve is still in one piece. If it was really hammering away, it would have exploded, or punched a hole in the piston.... Did you drain the oil yet? Check the strainer for any fragments of bearing, and go from there

oil is drained, but strainer is not removed yet. I'll check that tomorrow.

Good job getting it all apart.

Did the machine shop finish your other heads ???

I would'nt worry about the piston with the mark in it. It didnt hit hard enough to do any damage.

If you have new P+C's install them. If not.. run the old ones.


B