thank you sir!

i'm still amazed that that clay model actually survived ...

what a find! thanks for posting the pics, wilco ..
Andy

No problem.....

If you are looking for any further missing stuff
let me know this.

I will see what I can do.


Wilco

this place is the best. period.

Hmmm... 2 different models...

Compare them and see the differences...

I had no idea this data existed.



I am so grateful that you guys take the time to show this kind of history with us...

Just very kewl stuff..!!!!!!!

Regards,
Twystd1

Jeff,
the pics I posted today shows the same model.
But it was more than one times redesigned.
See also page 21 and 22 in the DGVWPB.

Don't hesitate to make your own inquirys
but I know you will have the same result.

Wilco

Great info!!!

Gugelot has been misspelled (gudelot) on the 914garage.com french website.
Now you can read gudelot on all the french websites ...
That's the way rumors and wrong informations spread all over the Web ...

By the way, this is one of the most interresting thread I ever read ! I love this place

Fabulous information, Wilco! We've all learned a little bit more on the history of the 914's beginnings. You rate "member of the week" in my book.
Don

Who are you!?!

You come in here and between the clay model and the factory restoration photos, single handedly smoke virtually every post that's been put on these pages!

(Andy, please translate the American English vernacular to Wilco... Wilco, it's a good thing)

WTFingG!!!

Thanks Wilco. Great Pics!

Wow, amazing photos of the model and thanks for posting. The 914 always has seemed to be a interesting German style car, similar to the German styling of the 60's to me.

Ah, heck what do I know stuck here is Suriname now.

Correction

Today I had a telephone call with Norbert.
He told me that the Klie 914 is a 1970 model with first licence in 1973.
The car was more than two years in the Porsche test department and have
many different parts.
The side vents in the dash are allegeable with this Informations.
The dash part you can see on the attached photo is from the Klie 914.
If you have the DGVWPB (Andy) compare this with the photo side 25 in the
upper right corner.

Further Informations about the Klie 914 will follow.

Wilco
Click to view attachment

Wilco, I'm really impressed about all this fascinating material and data you're posting here

did you ever post something of this stuff at the PFF
I can't remember seeing this before

anyhow ... it seems that you choose this place the right to be

keep on posting

Gustl

Wolfgang,
hab ich nicht und werde ich auch nicht bis....
ja bis jemand so einen Thread startet.

Wilco

Explanation: PFF is the german Porsche Fan Forum

Excuse me that I answer this post in german.

well ... that's o.k. for me

looks to be the same car!

DGVWPB, page 25, upper right hand corner, caption says (losely translated):

"The electronical Check-System was omitted from the production cars to keep the price down."

the car has some '73 features, dash sidevents, center console. i'm guessing this picture was taken somewhere after '73, after klie had "updated" the car ...
Andy

do you have a description of what this did and how??

more pictures of the clay model ...

NOTE: on the second pic, you can see the normal single headlight versus the dual-headlight, which was only build once, on what is now Dr. Piech's red 914-8 ...

Andy

PS: these pictures appear to be from the latest stages of the clay model as it is almost exactly the same as the current pictures wilco posted.
even the license plate matches!

yes. electronical self-diagnostic system. for each circuit, there is a diagnostic light (above the knobs), when you turn on the ignition, the system runs a self test, and if a circuit fails the test, the warning light will stay on ...

Andy

So the Klie 914 was a factory test mule. Which factory??
Could be an early 1970 model? The VIN number and other chassis infomation would help us.
Fascinating!

Don

Thanks Andy for cleaning and updating the website

@Dan
1)In the Porsche Design center
2)The VIN comes at last
3)Firstable two further pics...
The passenger foot rest

Click to view attachment

The interior back wall from the Klie 914


Click to view attachment

Dan,
Here is the maintenance book with the VIN

I post the pics how I get these.

Remember.....its not my car

Wilco

Click to view attachment

so it's a fairly late '71 ...

VIN: 471 29 10319

remember that europeans write the 1 like you guys write a 7, and the 7 always with a horizontal line, so don't get confused there ...

Engine #: 0080472

the dealer started this maintenance booklet on "03/19/1974", the owner is listed as "Heinrich Klie" ...

Andy

here are any pics from the "Klie" 914


split mid console

Click to view attachment

looks like selfmade

Click to view attachment

one pic from the Klie model with the original bumper

Click to view attachment

Danke, grobe abbildungen und informationen halten sie ihn zu kommen. Nehmen

sie ihn einfach.

ÄHHHHHH
What do you mean ?

A funny translation

Please write this in english once more


Wilco

Wilco,
Does the "Klie 914" have the early dash-mount wiper switch(another telltale of an early /4), or had it been updated with the later column-mounted stalk? Do you know what is happening with this car? Restoration? Refurbishment? Parts car(hope not)?
Thanks for all your contributions and input, this is interesting and fascinating history!

Danke!

The "Klie 914" has the later column-mounted stalk.
This 914 is a really unique car, many parts and configurations are
made by the Porsche development.
The owner of this car is a real 914-fan and he is restoring the car
to bring it back on the street.

Wilco

Thanks for the pictures and the information. Keep it coming.

Take it easy.

My spanish is better.

Let me help you develop this matter, although it may be periferic:

Re: Some Background:
In the early 60s, Gugelot together with the Bayer-Werke designed a plastic car that was based on a BMW.
Like the 914, this car separated itself from others through it's clear-cut lines. The car pictured in
Ludvigsens "Bible" and wrongly labeled the "Gugelot-Auto" was in fact a one-off prototype that never
made production.

Gugelot did design an interesting Swedish sports car called OBC Mantorp (after a racing course in Sweden). OBC was founded by a German, Mr. Ottmar Beckmann, who turned to Gugelot to complete his own design ideas. The car was supposed to be made of a core of polyurethan draped in glassfibre and had a mid-engine BMW engine, ranging from 100 to 200 hp. It never reached production since the project ran out of money but a completely new factory was built in Swedish town Klippan (on the west coast) in 1973-74. The car itself was constructed in a shed just by the Swedish racing course Falkenberg. I'll try to submit pictures of the only prototype (from the brochure that was made) as soon as possible. It doesn't look like a 914 at all, but has much in common with the BMW M1. And – there are gullwing doors!
Best regards from The Swede.

Thanks for sharing!

I'd like to nominate this thread for classic status, as it seems to have dissappeared since the shuffle.

This is one of the best threads I have ever read on any forum... period. It felt like a treasure hunt.. or something like it... fun exciting stuff!

This IS super cool. I know its been awhile, but thanks Andy and Wilco for the treasure!

that was frickin' funny

there is NO way i'll ever see the Gugelot design has anything in common with the 914.
i'll just point to the front. you can't look at that beak and think 914. it's pure french-ugly.

the 'fleur

p.s. i had no idea this thread was so old...

Surprised you didn't nominate it for the "Comfy Chair" award!

Great read from all!

Personally, with Porsche offering their own design services for many outside firms since its inception post-WWII - including many VW designs, some of which made it to production - why would one doubt that they could indeed design the 914, even if a departure from the 356-911/912 lines. You can look at the 924 to 968 & 928 chain as another set of departures.

Frankly, I think the Froggies are spreading that Gugelot rumor! ...you know - "I fart in your general direction!" & how the French & Germans have always each other! ...and this comes from a part German, French, English, Irish & Cherokee/Seneca Indian mix-mash M.Python fan!!

The clay models show a clear line of development on the final version.

It would also be "very interesting" to see some pix of the other 4 schemes in competition with Mr. K's scheme - if anyone runs across something to post here.

Cheers!

Nothing to do with the french. The source of the Gugelot story is the Karl Ludvigsen's book "excellence was expected". Karl is not french.

Just "pulling your legs" collectively, Johannes - no harm intended!

BTW - Do you know if Gugelot was French - as I had thought - or Belgian or ??

I think Ludvigsen himself was a Swede or a Dane or somewhere other than Germany himself, so it's really an international circle of rumor & innuendo.

Long's book below, in particular, does a good job of a quick debunking of the "Gugelot Theory". Personally - and as a design professional myself - I see no more than a passing similarity in some features of Gugelot's & others' designs, with the 914's styling - which often happens in what is often referred to as parallel development or innovation (2 disconnected groups/persons developing something similar but separately).

Heck, if one could claim being the genesis or authorship of a design simply by having done something similar previously, then I could claim so on the Mazda Miata & BMW Z3/Z4 on the basis of a scketch which I did for my college applications' portfolio way back in 1969/70!

For all interested - in addition to Brett Johnson's 914 tome, I recently got 2 really interesting & useful 914 resource books, that talk about some of this history of the design (Long) & worth the pix alone, & a compendium of past articles (Clarke), which are available online from the usual suspects Barnes & Noble, Borders, Amazon, PP, Pelican, etc. as listed below:

"Porsche 914 & 914-6", 2nd Ed., Brian Long, Veloce Publishing, Dorchester, UK, ISBN 1845840303

"Porsche 914 - Ultimate Portfolio", compiled by R.M. Clarke, Brooklands Books, Surrey, UK, ISBN 1855204320

Enjoy the read! Tom

German, with Dutch ancestry.
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_Gugelot


American
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Ludvigsen

Thanx Andy! ...interesting reads on both!

One correction though re: Ludvigsen - he'd be a German-American, Dutch-American, Swedish-American, or whatever his immigrant ancestry is/was. Similar to how you put Gugelot as a German with Dutch ancestry.

Do you happen to know which he was, as the wiki article didn't say, but his first & last names clearly use the "Old World" spellings?

"American" is mostly an amalgam of many races & cultures & only related to their current place of residence. So I was going by the spellings of his names to guess at his ancestral origins.

Whereas, the only true Americans which can be considered as separate race/cultures from the Anglo-European, African, Asian or other ancestry from elsewhere in the world, are the Native Americans. "Wrong Way" Columbus called them "Indians" (Indios in Spanish) because he thought he was in India, and that grew into the other term "American Indian".

I myself am a "Mixed-blood" Cherokee/Seneca Indian (1/4 Blood), with English, Irish, Scots, French & German ancestry. So I had some ancestors here already, as the others were coming over in their boats!

Perhaps a small point, but important to the all too often marginalized First Peoples of this land!

Found theese interresting pictures from the BMW project

http://www.hansgugelot.com/en/bmw-bayer_sports-car.php

Link updated on 02/04/2014

Relinked to Internet Archive on 02/04/2014

Interesting design when you see these. Reminds me of the 1960's Saab & Arbath sports cars of the day, especially the rear greenhouse glass enclosure layout.

His urethane foam core with 2 gel coat skins are interesting too. My Dad was a chemist who used a similar construction for factory built housing in the late 1960's HUD "Operation Breakthrough" program. The only one from that program which was seen much internationally, were the concrete modular system used for the 1970 Montreal Olympics athletes' housing.

Another picture of the 1967 Gugelot - Bayer car

Click to view attachment

This shot makes the F&R wheels look pinched too close together, but not on the pic of the Orange one above you posted with the caption: "1967...."

Johannes - are they of the same car & just a camera optics thing, or different prototypes?

Same car. Wide angle lens effect.