james, i already said i was biased against the trunk mount coolers....

its all good.

Aaron the asstalker

Is Rich Johnson's car a track car using the under the trunk fan design?

I do like unobtrusive simple designs...

Too many choices

I suggested the rear cooler with a fan as well. It could be made to work. It's a 2.2S, not 3.8.

Remember, I'm the guy who did the 'impossible' by fitting 225s on the back of a narrow bodied car, I'm pretty sure I could set up a very functional oil cooler in the back of a 2.2.

Come and get her and do it for me Joe

or at least give me a parts list (vendors, manufacturers, model #'s)

Fine. Take detailed pictures of the underside of your engine bay and under your trunk.

I'll set it up and intall it on Friday at the RRC.

Cost is $500 + parts.

There you go.

Truer words have never been spoken!

It may be an opinion, but odds are it'll be right. The Cap'n

Bias is fine, as long as you don't let it completely blind you. The perfect is the enemy of the good, and all that...

I hope someone does do the under the headlights thing, as I think it's an interesting solution that would be more than adequate for even a pretty hot engine. I don't think it's a good solution for Gwen, though.

For the record, I like my set-up.
The bottom line is this: 111 degrees at Thunderhill's got nothing on me.


KT

You've got good kharma riding with you. My luck ain't that good.

A few posts back someone mentioned adding steel mesh to re-enforce openings. I did this on my oil cooler outlets and it made an incredible difference in structural rigidity. When I cut the holes the surrounding sheetmetal became very unstable and would "oil can" very easily. I welded in some grill work liberated from an extra engine grill and it is now solid as a rock. Just thought I'd echo that it make a big diff.


Click to view attachment

And a gratutitous oil cooler pic:

Click to view attachment

East coaster, that is hot (in the Paris Hilton sense). I really like the job you did there. Even the grill you welded in is 914-correct

East-coaster's oil cooler installation is one of the nicest I've seen.

The other award goes to Brant for his super "twin oil coolers mounted in the head light buckets" installation.

Gentlemen, congratulations.

I'm good with that offer Joe. Thanks

Now to get to the RRC...

Any idea how much cooling (approx. reduction in temp) this design will provide?

Joe,

How much do you think parts will cost for the under car with fan?
Would it be better if I bought and brought the parts?

Probably around $600 in parts.

600 for a rear cooler?

must be a fluidyne cooler then....

I'm thinking about $250 for the cooler, $100 for the thermostat and $250 in lines and fittings.

What happens if it doesn't cool enough?

What if the fan can't generate enough cool air from under the car at 60+ MPH?

So I just talked to Rich Walton at Jerry Woods Enterprises (JWE). He likes the idea of the 2 small coolers in the fog light location. BUT he's never done it either

He thinks that it can be done outside the chassis behind the horn grills, like was suggested already. Thereby not cutting the car much and cooling well. The lines will already be in the proper places if I decide to go big full frontal later

He'd also charge me a ridiculous amount to do the work...but he'll do the work

The thing he was most concerned about is why my little 2.2S was generating that much heat. Even my typical 220 temp. was higher than he'd recommend. They like their cars (albeit taildraggers with coolers outside the chassis) running between 180-210.

He suggests checking the cloggage condition of the engine's current oil cooler.

How easy is that to get at and check out?

My point, exactly. The Cap'n

First thing, not yet discussed at all: how are you checking your oil temp? If you're going by the gauge on the dash, has that ever been checked for accuracy? PA Speedo could do this for you.

Second, you can see the bottom of the oil cooler from underneath. Driver's side of the car, rear of the engine, aft of the aft-most cylinder. There will be an oil line coming out below the cooler. To see the top of the cooler look at the fan cooling shroud, and see if you can distinguish a second "bump" above where the cooler will be. It's often a different color than the main shroud. If you can, and you can see the bolts that hold it down (there are several), that shroud can be removed to expose the top of the cooler. I have no idea how hard or easy this would be to do with the engine in the car, or with the FI bolted to the engine. I expect it would NOT be easy. Cleaning the cooler (and the cylinders) is something that requires the FI to be removed, and that fan cooling shroud removed. This is no big deal with carbs or CIS, but with MFI...

Brad installed external oil pressure and temp gauges in the center console back when he was working at HPH. The pressure sender was just replaced by Tony at Heyer Performance.

All due respect to Brad, while I'm sure he installed the right parts, there's no telling what the calibration of those parts are. What are your oil temps normally? Say, for a typical commute from PA to San Jose? Do you fly down 280, or crawl along on 101? What's the highest temp you remember seeing during your commute?

I prefer to fly
Once the car is warm and humming along on my 25-ish mile commute, she runs pretty consistently at 220.

You might need this.

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=e...s%3Den%26sa%3DN


click on PORSCHE-2

hey sunshine!
are you opposed to the cented front mount cooler?
you needn't make it as bulky as mine....
but running cooper lines along th e body helps disapate as well....
i used refrigeration grade copper, welded with silver soder....
my lines get fairly
warm but never to hot to touch.....
but up here it doesnt get as hot as you lucky californians.....
take care
Steve

Steve,

i run aluminum lines in my retired race car cooler... (now street car)
same thing. disappates heat.
I theorized that the aluminum tubing would be less suseptable to cracking.
I ran mine outside the longs
brant

Back to the original question..........
Doesnt Jim Lamonica's 914-6 have behind the foglight grill oil coolers for his 3.6? That is a very saweet looking install, someones gotta have pics!?! So cal contingent?

I thought I would throw in my two cents, here is the installation I'm working on that uses two small coolers. I wanted to keep as much usable trunk space as possible. I'm using 90 degree fittings coming out of the coolers and everything fits under the tire cover which is raised due to the DPD AC condensor. I'm going to build ducting that wraps around the spare tire and exits out of the side of the fenders.
Click to view attachment
I am running the oil lines on the drivers side because the AC lines are on the other side. I did have a rear mounted cooler and fan but it didn't provide enough cooling.

Dean, I'm anxious to see your results. I applaud your creativity.

gjvytjm

Thanks for chiming in Dean. Your design looks interesting. Can we see more pictures? Like what does it look like from the front of the car?

I only have a 2.2S engine so it shouldn't be getting as hot as 3Ltr. engine.

I like how you are preserving the front trunk space.

I really want to do something that cools efficiently, the least invasive and the most low-profile/elegant.

I've been thinking more about the spare tire preservation requirement and it has been brought to my attention by a co-worker that my full-spare only matches the front tires of my car. I have 205s in the front and 225s in the back. So my concern for its preservation are somewhat flawed. Plus I don't have a jack or lug wrench for the tires either...

So I'm back to focusing on the front cooler designs

Hiya Steve,

I have been opposed to the front cooler mount because of trunk space and spare-tire preservation. But as I posted earlier, my full-spare concern is somewhat illogical

Copper or aluminum lines seem interesting. Not so flexible. I've heard that copper costs are shooting through the roof though. So much so that construction sites are being robbed and stripped of their copper plumbing

BTW- I drove G TEENER to work today.

By the time I arrived at the office, the temp was registering 220. Drive time 7:30 am PST, temp approximately 75 F.

yep, shawn anderson called me and reminded me of that....

IIRC jim has at least 2 coolers... (might have a middle one also?) behind the fogs, with working headlights and all....

Gwen,

maybe just bite the bullet and go with the proven GT pieces?
(you said you were back to thinking about frontal coolers)

and, as i posted, you can use a vertical mount space saver.... so.. its all good

OK, so here's another issue that was brought to my attention with the GT design.... How noticeable is the lift created by the hot air venting out under the car?

The foglight design vents in to the wheel wells, so no lift.

And no, I don't want a vent cut in to my front hood

You can vent any front mounted cooler into the wheel wells. You don't really even need any ducting.

205 vs 225 is irrelevant because that is the width of the tire not the height. As long as you have a 205 or smaller spare it will work. Plus a spare just need to get you to a tire shop, so it's okay if it's not a perfect replacement. A jack and a wrench aren't a big deal because if someone stops to help it's likely they'll be able to use the pieces from their car (regardless of make). Although, a wrench wouldn't be a bad addition to your car. I feel the extra air flow under the car isn't an issue except in a fast car on a big track. But I'm sure there are some people with real world experience.

honestly... I never used to notice any lift.
I'm sure there is some theoretically, but not to the level that you can actually feel anything by the seat of your pants... (at least not my seat)

still... front hood is theoretically better
here is my front hood on my retired car:

There has been a lot of talk about the air vented through the front trung floor creating lift, but I wonder if the effect is really significant relative to a stock car. On a stock car with no front inlet where does the air that strikes the front bumper go. The front bumper is sort of bow-like and most of the air probably goes under the car. Unless you have an agressive front spoiler/air dam. Cut an opening, force the air through a cooler, vent it through the floor, where does it go? Under the car. I just don't think there is a big difference.

Now an exhaust through the top of the hood is another matter, and I think that may be beneficial from an aero standpoint.

Esthetically, the top of the hood exit duct doesn't appeal to me. My car isn't a hard-core track car. It gets tracked only recreationally

Most of my driving is low altitude street flying ( ).

So why all the cars with the holes cut out the back of the trunk and out to the ground through the trunk?

Different strokes for different folks. Some people vent it down, some people out the side, some people up. Some people vent, others don't.

Some people put them in back under the trunk, too.

rofl james....

decisions, decisions, money, money

I'd like the fog light design to work. I think it fits my form and function desires. I'm hesitant to finance the R&D and muck up my car if it fails.

not really mucking up. i have faith

i can prolly get you Jim L's number through a mutual friend, he is using fog light coolers to keep his 3.6 cool....