Slightly different take...

'Know your enemy' has two parts:
1) Everybody is trying to kill you -- mindset
2) Learn traffic patterns -- tactics

Some days when I'm feeling vulnerable I think to myself "Maybe I'll just become a weekend joy rider." But the fact is, weekend joy rides may be more dangerous than daily commutes. A few years ago a distubing trend arose where the majority of accidents where an apparently 'safe' demographic of riders -- weekend re-entry riders -- empty nesters getting back into motorcycling. Increased fatailities were chalked up to a combination of unfamiliarity with territory (where are the poorly marked, off-camber, decreasing radius turns), lack of practice, and inattentiveness.

I'm a weekday rider. I drive the exact same 20 miles a day each way. This includes 3-5 miles of lanesplitting per day. I've learned the territory. I learned the traffic patterns. I feel disconnected from my motorcycle even after 3 days of non-riding.

I am afraid to put the bike riding on long-term hiatus because my skills will deteriorate, and that lack of practice would get me in trouble for next time out.

Dibs on the suzuki. I like the old-school look.

And I think less faschia looks way faster than some bulging fiberglass hulk.

Does anyone have one of those suzukis to sell? My Puegot wants company.

Andy,
I do not wish to "give advice" as I do my own thing and, as anyone would, I opperate within my own comfort zone.

1) I never recommend that anyone not feeling up to owning a bike, for what ever reason, get one. Calling someone a pussy and taunting them may only lead to their quicker demise and is juvenile IMHO.

2) Since you feel up to the task marinate with this: Since I have been riding (since I was 18 in '94) I have been hit 3 times, had the bike hit while parked 2 times, and layed a bike down 2 times. I do not drive out of my skill level anymore, but I did not take a safety class originally. My first day of owning a bike I hit the side of a Winnebago that decided to make a U-turn form the right lane infront of me (left lane). I woke up in the hospital. Many of my accidents happened in the first 6mo of ownership which is the statistically highest time for things to go wrong. I have more accidents than most folks, and not a single one (other than one of the laying it down on my own) was my fault. # of miles traveled = increase in probability of accidents. I have MANY miles on me as I commonly would travel 500mi one way on a weekend and lived 50mi from work for a while.

3) Some types to consider, I think that the advice here that has been repeated over and over regarding certain models is fair. You will get board of a 250 quick, but it still may be a better fit for now. It is not like you are gonna have to divorce your bike when you get tired of it I disagree with the Buell recommendation and the concept that the insurance will be less. Harlys have some of the highest insureance due to the ease of steeling and selling parts. Buell ads a sport bike aspect to this. No financially good. my first bike was an 82 Honda Magna and it was perfect. It did have 750cc, but it was not a race bike at all. Very dependable and tough. Of course I LOVE BMWs! Very good bikes
When you take the MSF course they will supply you with a rebel or a ninja or some other 250 that you can thrash. Do this first and gather some more data for you to make your decision.

Be safe, let no one taunt you as responding to taunts leads to the dark side and potentially an early death. You seem to have the right mentality to learn the skills you will require.

On the other side of things....

Honda Rukus. ~100mpg. Top spped ~35. If you only have a few miles between work, school and home, it might be perfect.

I thought about getting one when I lived in Baltimore. But I figured it would just get stolen. Rode my mtn. bike instead.

Zach

Andrew,
of the 8 guys I used to ride with, I *think* 5 of us started out with EX 500's.
Nice little start-up bikes.

B:
sorry about your friends. IT can happen at ANYtime, ANYplace.

Hi if i was you i go for the the Honda cb400s
hondamatic they are very good stater bikes
being a automatic 2 speed 1 high 1 low
they were made in the 70 and 80 look one
up on ebay.

I put this in the thread in the sandbox section...

Aprilia SR50. Its a scooter, gets 120 miles per gallon due to its direct injection engine.

Looks cool too. Cost about $3000. There are many other scooters that are cheaper.

Best advise I can give a novice streetbiker is...

Get a dirtbike first, get used to the bike sliding and reacting to unforseen obstacles. Once you feel comfortable in the dirt then think about buying a streetbike. I have owned bikes for 25 years, the first three streetbikes said hello to the pavement. Then I began to race dirtbikes nationally, since then I bought a 1200cc Buell and a 1450cc Harley both of my new bikes have kept the shiney side up. Dirtbikes are the key to riding your bike (for me atleast) . IF you ever get in a hairy situation, you will be familiar with sliding and this will increase your chances of getting by. BTW when I ride with Harley guys, they can not believe the stuff I pull off with my Harley. When we get to our destination they are telling me they almost shit thier pants at any given intersection where some car jetted out in front of me or something... Half of the time I don't even know what they are talking about. Luckily overcoming unforseen obstacles has become second nature on a bike for me. But I am not untouchable. Look as far down the road as you can.

Good Luck

Keith

My first bike was a Suzuki 370 enduro and I gotta say that was the most fun I ever had on two wheels. That was 25 years and 7 streetbikes ago. I would strongly suggest enduro for a beginner, but it sounds like you really want a street bike. Old BMW boxer twins are cool like 914s are cool. They aren't super fast, but they'll keep up with traffic, and they look pretty good going slow. You might pick one up for your price range, and it'll be dependable, but it'll look rough. That's when half the fun starts really; making it your own bike. K bikes are better, but they aren't typically $1500. Any 80s-90s Jap bike can be a dependable machine, and you can kill yourself on a moped, so I wouldn't go too small as much as I wouldn't go to big.

Watch for old people and cell phones!

Good luck to you, whatever you decide!

I know you've heard all of the safety comments and I totally agree with all of them. I got my first bike in 1968 and have had one continuously until 1996 when I sold my last one.

The only advice I can give is (and I know you don't like the idea) start with an enduro. They are light and nimble, handle pretty well and because of the lighter weight, you can stay under 400cc's and have plenty of power to get out of trouble.

Andy,
Arent you under 18 and in CA? Unless things have changed since last year you will not be able to get a licence until you are 18 and you will have to take the 3 day or night course offered through 1800 CC RIDER. If you get a moped or scooter (not sure about the scooter) you will only need the learners permit ever. But, at 16 you would only be able to get a permit anyway. With a permit you are relegated to surface streets, daylight hours, and no passengers. Sorry if you already know this, just thought that I would share

Evil,

Im 19, turning 20 in nov. I've owned my car since I was 15... maybe thats what your thinking (kids these days... they grow up so fast huh?)

hehe

Also, Evil, thank you very much for the tips and advice above, it was very helpful and informative, I apreciate it very much!


Also, Im sorry, but I rather dont care for the riding position or the look of a euro bike. It just doesnt appeal to me. Part of me getting a sport bike is because riding a sport bike is a want that i've been hiding for 4 years now.. I knew they were unsafe, but I've held off on my "hidden" passion for these bikes long enough.. Dirt is not my thing. But I may use some friends bikes and learn a little that way.

Thank you all for the suggestions. Keep them coming, Particularly on learning and such.. I know what kind of bike im looking for and now im just waiting for a killer deal to pop up.

i just finally got a dirtbike this year, but i really want a dual sport, (to each his own) but if youve never ridden a bike they can be tricky, i have a few friends that have bikes and theyve high sided without trying to show off or anything, just from being an amateur rider, just be careful and know your limits

heres my baby

Dang, your right. I was thinking that time stood still or something

Oh and the euro bike comment doesnt really apply to the one I am selling right now

As a referance point, how much are you selling your bike? Shipping it here would kill the deal.. and im sure it being a bmw would make it slightly more than I want to buy.

BTW.. I like THAT look... All the pannels on it, full bike/street bike look...

I am trying to get $3500 for it. It was in San Diego, but Craig is hooking me up by selling it for me from OR. He has saved me $400 so far as the shipping to this coast would have been $800+.

Me too, it is 100% customized with the K1100RS fairing package. Originally it looked a bit different as it is an 87 K75S. 750cc, sideways 3cyl engine, with FI and it is built like a tank. If I had room I would kkep it, but I got a 96 K1100RS that looks the same and can not ride both.

Sidways 3-banger? Sidways which way? I love BMWs.

I love my Triple British bike too though. Gobs of torque with really good high-end performace too. The best of both worlds. 148 hp at the crank makes the world get blurry in a hurry when desired. In fact, it's made me stop caring about making the 914 *fast*, because it won't ever be as fast as the bike. Well, not with my pocket book.

Here she is:

LOL randy.. I have the opposite feeling about the bike...

"it wont ever be as fast as my 914... so I'll just get a slow MPG one, and enjoy it!"

My boss has a hyabusa.. and I want to terrorize him with my v8 when the 550hp 302 goes in... mu haha

Mike, Is that a standard thing to do? I think the ferrings are a really nice thing apearance wise to the bike, was it hard? Not like with my skills I cant do it.. but butchering a bike is one thing... butchering a 914 that I've already butchered is another.

BMW is not your normal bike. The parts cost would kill many if you did not know where to get good used. Trying to do the same thing to a jap bike would be a bitch.

The 3 all face to the left inline front to back.

Truely, my bikes have ALWAYS been the most reliable transportation that I have owned. They really are the modern equivelent of the horse to the cowboy. Like a friggen family member.

The bussa will likely still be faster! How do you expect to keep your tired from spinning with 500 ponnies? Not giving you a hard time, but am really just curious.

BMWs and most European bikes have charm/character/soul that the Japanese bikes lack. That's partly why I decided Triumph over Honda/Kawasaki/Yamaha/Suzuki. Hey, that's the same reason I drive a 914 and not a Honda car. They're wonderful machines, but perhaps they're just too refined for my taste.

What a nerdy cool engine config on the BMW. Neat!

Re: the Scooter idea....

Andrew,
go to a Motorcycle recycling yard, you will see Row, after Row, after Row, after (get the idea?) of Scooters.

Andrew:
My son just bought a 2000 Ducati Monster 900ie (pic) and is planning on selling his 1992 Yamaha FZR600. Let me know if you are interested in the FZR - not sure what he is planning on asking.
Later,

Um, no offense, but that K75 has about as a much soul, excitement and handling as a roto-tiller with all the blades broken off of it.

Triumph triples do sound wicked.

A Honda V-4 with gear-drive cams at 7K rpm? Music.

The FZR sounds worth looking into.

Mark, dont go bashing my K75. I said it is a tank, in many ways

I had a 82 (V45) Honda Magna, and a 94 Magna. I found the 82 to be unstoppable. I like Hondas, too.

Kawasuckies are for losers, though!


Just kidding

Mike one of the reasons I want a sport bike is to rev to 15k... But I understand that tq helps to get you out of scary situations.

Tom, The yamaha is a great looking bike! But at 91hp... thats too much for me.

Randy... Have you seen the pics of my car? 285 35 18's on the back for street rubber. 23x 10.5 goodyear slicks for the track.

Andrew,

You want a bike that screams. The only way you'll get that howl is a Japanese inline 4. The smallest displacement on those is 400cc, and in the US, those tend to be fairly rare.

I can only think of two near-15K rpm screamers near your $1500 budget -- a Yamaha FZR 400 and a Suzuki Bandit 400

Maybe a Honda CB-1

It seems you may be a little too focused on a physical limit on power. I'm not saying that power isn't addictive, and doesn't invite trouble, but there are plenty of other stupid things that can be done on a motorcyle in traffic that have little to do with excess power.

The goal is to exercise just enough prudence to keep you within safety margins for those situations that novices come across that remove them from the riding public in grisly ways.

I have a 600cc single streetbike. It barely does 70 mph on the highway. It may keep me from going too fast and driving into trouble, but it won't keep trouble from running me over from behind.

I say suzuki gs500E bullet proof bike for cheap!!

or.......


[size=7]VESPA!!!!! stylish and great gas milage (60- 80 depending on model) cheap parts easy to work on and 2 stroke baby!

VESPA!!!

look for an old RZ350 or 400. If ya think ya got balls, get the RZ500. LOTS of fun, cheap and unique.

http://www.mcreports.com/Pages/Indivbikes/Yamaha/RZ350.html

oooo yea rz350's are bad ass!!!

I just took the MSF 3 day course this past weekend. I had never, ever, been on a bike before, but thought it looked like fun and I wanted to learn. We were on Suzuki GZ250, which look like harley but only 250cc engine. I am 6'0" and a little over 200#, and this bike did not accelerate very well with me on it, but it "fit" me nicely.

At the end of the weekend, after I had passed the riding skills test (w00t!), I asked the instructors about what to look for in a first bike. Both said look to the Japanese brands, 500-750cc, and to pay particular attention to how it "fits" you. You apparently can make some adjustments to the handlebar position, and raise/lower depending on your leg length, but since each bike is a little different they emphasized the importance of finding the one that fits best. Relaxed riding position, not having to stretch for the ground or lean to one side when at stop lights, etc. Having the larger engine will make it more useful to you for a longer period of time as you develop your skills.

They also said that as a general rule, the sport-type motorcycles are more expensive to insure (at least in Indiana, YMMV). A Ninja 250 is more expensive to insure than the GZ250. I don't really have anything to compare their advice against b/c I've never tried to insure either.

Taking the MSF course certainly gave me a better appreciation for riding and dealing with the "cages". I rather like the previous idea of making all new drivers start on motorcycles in order to develop a good sense of respect for the rules of the roads (and Darwin will select out those that don't learn).

I'd like to learn more, but all the classes beyond the beginner level require you to own your own bike. I do like the looks of the SV650 (and 650S), but I'll just stick to my teener for now

Andyrew, (since my suggestions were shot down by nay-sayers)
I was originally looking at getting a motorcycle in 2002. My mind was changed when I was driving my dad's 911T on the highway and a driver in a lexus ran me into a center divider at about 80mph. I was in the left lane, he was in the right. If people can't "see" you in a car, how can they see you on a bike? Imagine the same but on a motorcycle -- that's why I never bought one, and probably won't for another year or two.

I don't understand. You're saying you won't buy a bike now because you are less visible, yet you probably will buy one in the next few years. Is Andrew supposed to wait with ya? I don't get it.

Brando plans on gaining 200# in the next few years so he will be more visible

My bike coupled with my experience helps me to out manouver idiots like that. Usually

Driving is dangerous, riding is dangerous, sex is dangerous, living causes death.

Andyrew,

Take the cotton balls out of your ears and start actually listening to what some of the good folks are saying here.
Your fixation on a sport bike for the "look" and 15k redline is rediculous.
Get something that you can learn on first. A sport bike covered in plastic will be very expensive to repair after you dump it. And you will dump it.
If you really want super RPM, go find a Honda CB1. 400cc, no low end at all, but a fun top-end with stratospheric redline.
Be warned though, it's difficult to use high rpms in town.
Trying to get to that top end and enjoy that high-rpm rush is what will get you in trouble.

Get over your image, go get a dirt-bike with a street licence plate (ie. enduro) and LEARN.
Then sell it and get the bike you really want later.
I've had all sorts of bikes, standards, cruisers, sportbikes, enduros, supermotards, dirtbikes. And done all sorts of riding from commuting through SF to touring long distance to racing on the track. Want to know what's most fun to ride? The enduros, and supermotard (for the street). (Personally if I could only do one sort of riding it would be trail riding on my dirtbike)

I know you generally show reasonable judgment around here, and some self-restraint with your V8, but you really sound like you've got your head wedged someplace unpleasant this time...

Oh, and you will never, beat that Busa with your car. (unless your boss can't ride for shit.)

Okay, I'm done ranting now...

(mostly)

I don't think that you have to go out and get an enduro or street legal dirt bike to learn on. But with $1500 bucks in hand, you're going to get a pretty ratty old sportsbike that will have been dropped and abused. The money would be better spent on something that has some life left in it, but doesn't meet your 14k redline, sub 60 hp, sportbike requirements.

OK, I think I'm done.

Nocones, when are we going riding?

I ride every day Randy my man.
I guess that would mean, ...just about anytime!

No 914 can smoke a hyabusa unless it's AXing. =-)
Modded bikes would be stupid fast.

New bikes:

Top Speed
ZX-12R - 188.27mph (303km/h)
Hayabusa - 186.41mph (300km/h)

0-100km/h
ZX-12R - 2.6sec
Hayabusa - 2.6sec

0-140km/h
ZX-12R - 4.2sec
Hayabusa - 4.1sec

0-200km/h
ZX-12R - 7.0sec
Hayabusa - 7.3sec

1/4 mile
ZX-12R - 11.13 @ 140.14mph
Hayabusa - 11.43 @ 142.95mph

Horsepower/Torque
ZX-12R - 165bhp @ 9,800rpm / (130nm)95.8ft lbs @ 7,800rpm
Hayabusa- 156bhp @ 9,000rpm / (134nm)98.8ft lbs @ 6,800rpm

Try one of these you will sure stand out in the crowd.Click to view attachment
www.ural.comClick to view attachmentClick to view attachment

Rogger.. 550hp and slicks.. I think I can break 11's. My car wont have as much tubeing as few big hp v8's out there, f/g lightweight junk going on it (asside from the flares those dont lower the weight) and removable everything non neccesary.. Im looking for 2150 race trim.

Let me clear up some stuff.

I dont need 15krpms... I just dont want it to be a tq monster with no high rpm power.. over 10k is fine.. 7k is not... I dont like the harley big bore sound.. But I dont rather like the go cart motor sound either, I will be making custom exhausts for whatever bike I go with, and fiberglass ferrings for when I drop the bike for replacements. (kinda planning ahead.. a little)
10-15k is the rpm range I'd ask for..


Also my boss is 6'2 ish, and he says he likes riding his wifes 250 ninja more than he likes riding his hayabusa because its more nimble, handles better, and the riding position is better... (I dont see how.. because the ninja is a small bike)


Theres a lot of jumbled info up here.. So I'd like a colab from you guys really quick..

List all the bikes that fit into these requirements.

• 10-15k redline
• Under 75hp
• Gets over 50 mpg
• Fits 6'0 165lb guy
• has ferrings, Not a euro
• Can be attained for under 1500-2k (Deals will be out there, lets not include "deal" bikes)
• No more than 140 top speed
• Light/handling bike

Thanks guys!

Anydrew,

I agree with a lot of the other posts about going through the msf. A few weeks ago i took the msf course. The class quickly builds your confidence, but it's up to you to keep on practicing and honing your riding skills.

As far as the requirements for the bike your looking for. And from what I've been researching on my own, I would recommend the sv650. Of course it doesn't come stock with fairings, but you can probably make your own or find deals on some aftermarket ones.

What are the priorities? Let me do that for you.

The first constraint has to be cost. Therefore, you will be looking for a dime-a-dozen bike that that was popular, oh, 10 years ago or so.

Second, you want RPM but no horsepower. The 12K RPM barrier was only broken in the last 3 or 4 years. Bikes that exceed 12K RPM are still $5K+. They're also in the 95+ hp bracket. So they're out. Also, how you can't get RPM without horsepower being a byproduct? I don't think bike makers listened to the fringe element in their rider surveys that said "Make it spin to the moon, but keep it gutless!"

Third, you want 'fairings'.

Building your own exhaust would seem to be a fruitless exercise, because the dime-a-dozen bike your looking for probably has huge dime-a-dozen aftermarket support. Ebay browsing has to be much easier than fabrication.

Also, why build your own exhaust if you don't want more power? If you want noise, simply get a full race system. It'll give you all the noise you want, suck the bottom end power right off the bike like nothing else, but still give you that kick in the pants feeling when cam finally catches up with the freer breathing exhaust.

Even though you have considered them 'too big' (I don't know why) the dime-a-dozen category in the USA is the 600 class sportbikes. One that has been made since '92 or so is the Yamaha FZR 600. It tops out at 75hp, probably gets 50mpg, has fairings, and gobs and gobs of extra stuff all over the internet (like handlebar risers and rearsets).

Read on...

Motorcycle.com FZR dyno specs

Motorcycle.com FZR 600 comparison

Sooo... Theres only one bike that fits mine or your description?

Come on guys... I'd like a list of bikes here... There are 1000's of bikes on ebay, and i am not familiar with any of them.. (I do know that harley probably doesnt have any street bikes though.. lol)

I know its a lot to ask for... but just start listing bikes.. I want a list to search for the good deals.

FYI cloudbuster, my dad aint buying "only 75hp".. I would have to keep it under 6k for a while just to learn how to ride.. or throw on a msd rev limiter..

http://orangecounty.craigslist.org/mcy/189397886.html