Ooops, in my last post I meant to write:

Yeh...I was wondering that as well, sounds like an illegal or backyard bubba for beer or crack.
Doesn't sound like a licensed shop putting food on the table for their families.

Is anyone else still waiting for their copy of Excellence to arrive in the mail other than me? I must be last on the list.

I quote my prices based on what Brad Roberts quote me and on this site in the beginning. You remember who Brad is?? I "think" he knows his shit and what it costs to do this conversion yourself doing the work.

Now, if you scored a "once in a lifetime" deal on a six engine,, great more power to you.
I tried for 3 years to find a decent six engine in the NW (3.0l or 3.2) so don't tell me how easy it effin is to do.


I am only one of the guys who respects Jake cuz he actually does R&D and makes or has made quality 4 parts.

I finally got mine yesterday

$4000 in conversion parts? ....the $6000 included engine, parts and labor to install the engine. It only took me 2 weeks to find 4 engines that would have worked for under $4000. I spent every hour looking at used engine sites, craigslist, ebay, etc. People would be suprized to learn how many cheap engines are out there that are in good shape. In two more weeks my car was running and on the road.

And I agree Mr. Raby does a great job with T4 development. I just dont appreciate his constant put downs of six conversions. I understand that for every conversion he loses potential market, but I have never understood why an industry figure such as Mr Raby feels he has to attack alterntives to his $T4 wizardy. His work should stand on its own merit. I think it does, but he seems to have doubts.

..and Mark H, that back yard bubba that did my conversion has done over 25 conversions including those of other non-club members. Geez who poked you with the sheering scissors? ...and there is a world out there beyond this board that knows a thing or two about 914's. I never bought the hype on this board about six conversions being tremendously expensive and pretty much proved it in short order.

I recieved my Excellence today and was astounded by the prices. If the word gets out to the public, every POS parts car will be starting at $1000. If the cars are going up that much in value, why aren't the parts worth more!!!

As for 6 conversions, I picked up a running 2.4 MFI delivered to my door for $750. Yes, I paid a premium for the the orignal parts for the conversion but the tab came to $3k total.

as long as one can find "disposable, hand me down /6's that might or might not blow up in the near future", people will always bitch about expensive near-new-0-miles big /4 motors....I don't get the comparisons....same goes with the Subaru conversions...as long as one can get cheap JDM or autowrecker motors, these people will knock a newly rebuilt performance /4....try pricing brand new aftermarket Subaru parts....$2K for pistons, $1.5K+ for cams....complete turnkey motors go for $12K+

I like 'em all, I just don't have to try and draw totally unfair comparisons...you cannot compare a used /6 engine with a near brand new /4 based purely on cost...

I did. I looked into cost of a Raby built T4 (spent the time talking to Jake and had verbal quotes), I investigated the investment of a T4 kit and having somone build it for me and I thoroughly assessed what was involved in a conversion with a used six. The used six conversion made the most sense to me after interviewing several well respected 914 enthusiasts and mechanics. It was the easiest turn key solution for my circumstance. But again similar to you I like most 914 engine options. I just dont have a T4 agenda with profit motives that skew my opinions as some six bashers do. I'm really just an objective minded 914 hobbiest with no financial ties to one engine platform or another.

Now the real sickness happens after the six engine conversion. I have spent far more on wide body conversion, 5 lug conversion, suspension mods, roll cage, assorted body parts, oil cooler, short ratio transmission, track oriented upgrades, wheels and tires. The engine was really the cheap part of the game for me.

So back to topic where do small displacement conversion sixes fall in the valuation mix?

Grant, we'll have to call your car the Immaculate Conception. I mean you got the killer deal on the engine, the conversion parts and on the shop labor to put it together.

My 2270 with 160 foot pounds of torque will still come in cheaper.

But the question is:

When it breaks, will he tell us??

I couldn't resist!!

That wasnt the topic
The topic was 914 valuations related to the recent artical in Excellence.
So BOT why arent the LE's listed in his artical(s)?

OK you know me so I'm saying this in spirit of fun. Really? If you count your hours assembling the engine, all the parts nessary for rebuild, machining cost, fuel delivery (are you going with $$$$carbs or $$$$$$$$$aftermarket FI?). Are you installing a new clutch to handle all that new found power? Also the clock is ticking. Will you have your engine assembled and running in the car in two weeks? Didnt you indicate you ordered the 2270 kit recently?

All kidding aside this is going to be great! I have been looking forward to seeing one of Jakes engine kits in the Bay Area. If you get it assemebled and running I think you will be one of the few here with that have a running Raby inspired engine.

Hey once your finished we should have a drag race. My 2.4 is a torquey little engine too

I know you're just joking around. I don't think even Jake takes your pokes seriously anymore. :-)

Yes, I just ordered the kit so it's obviously not going to be done in two weeks. That's fine because I wouldn't have time to work on it in the next month or two anyway. The kit includes a new clutch and pressure plate balanced from fan to pressure plate.

It doesn't even look like putting all together is really going to take that much time. The tear down to pull the core crank only took me 2 hours. But really I'm looking forward to the build up.

I haven't decided yet what to do with fueling but I'm leaning towards SDS EFI or Megasquirt. Even purchasing SDS outright for fuel only is around $1200 with the o2 sensor kit. Megasquirt can be done for $500 or less. New Webers can be done for $1100 - used $500. Even with the most expensive fueling option I'll be under your $6000 (though very close).

resell-value is for weenies ...

i'm just about done dropping another $15k into my car, that'll bring the total well over $30k ...

and i'm already thinking about taking it all apart (again) and acid-dip it and redo it from scratch ...

resell-value can

Andy

Oh yeah, drag race - you're on!

Thats part of all my kits.. It has to be to offer a fully balanced rotating mass.

A customer that had never assembled an engine before put his kit together in two weekends from start to finish. With the prep work and configuration of the kit all of the hard/guess work is complete out of the box.

When I finish the 2270 video over the winter the ease of assembly can't get any easier..

slight hi-jack....Anthony, the guys that started Megasquirt is coming out with a new ECU, factory installed surface mounted components with a proper connector and case (similar to a MoTec)...no screwing around with soldering and such....target price is $350...still no "factory" support, but there is enough help to figure out the setup and tuning....1st 50 prototypes are fuel only and are being tested as we speak....once proven, then they'll ad spark control and who knows what else.....

I think, that being it is an entire "kit", it isn't proper to say "Raby inspired". I think the term "raby inspired" is used to refer to engines that are built using some of Mr. Raby's ideas, but not as one of his complete kits. I could be wrong, though....

Wow, that sounds pretty good. Fiid and Jeff were very encouraging on Megasquirt. I've been thinking that I might do like Jeff and get MS all working on my current engine so that by the time I build my 2270 I'll have the experience and a working system and won't be experimenting on a new engine.

Is there a link where I can read about this? I don't see it mentioned on megasquirt.info.

Microsquirt

I plan on getting one for my Volvo 240 Turbo motor that I am building

Actually I refer to my engine kits as "Raby Inspired"....
The only way to get a full Raby seal of approval is the complete engine that has made it through 10 hours of dyno work and has the pedigree worthy of the title..

i would thinnk a radiator car could be done right enough that if one wanted to, the removed front metal can be replaced. In many cases a collision or rust damaged car could be used, hence a bit of missing metal (as long as you save the pieces0 can be welded back in if one wiched to de-convert back to a stock motor. Look at all the cars with the AC hole cut in them, yet teh AC was removed years ago! Run the pipes carefully under teh car, and cut ans save the intake and outlet hole pieces, and you should in the future be able to "restore the car" many expensive 356's have had floors, fenders, doors, battery boxes replaced becuase of rust, and many of those panels are exterior cosmetic panels that are hard to get right looking, yet teh cars still sell for a lot.

With collisons, rust and such on most 914's 9and it will only get worse in coming years0 a good radiator install, with all the saved metal, would be a snap to return to stock look. if your trunk is already rusting, and the front already dented, the loss in value by adding a radiator would be minimal. The cost savings in buying ahigh HP V8 verses a simular HP flat four is substantial, maybe making up for any future loss in value, Sure there are higher center of gravity issues, but a V8 914 handles better than most V8 equiped cars. Motor to your passion I say, witht eh number of 914's produced far exceeding that of the 356's the values may take a bit longer to reach 356 levels. The only real big loss in value is a radiator conversion on a prestine original car.

I don't know, if I was looking at a car that had a radiator, and it shouldn't, it would tell me a lot about the car, and the previous owner. Particularly, that the owner simply gave up and joined the masses and went water cooled because it was the easiest way for him to solve the problem at hand (power, overheating, whatever). Then I would wonder what else he took "alternate routes" for. That is not to say that any modification can't be done right, and many water conversions on the club here have, it seems. But I would keep looking for "the right car".

maybe the 914 should have had a radiator in the first place??? Seems if Porsche had kept making them, they would have a radiator by now. The aircooled was a fine motor, I love them, but they do have limitations, the cooling can be an issue, they make more noise, and the design precludes the more modern multivalve design, that and other things forced Posche to add the missing radiator to the 911 series.
if anyone is looking for a radiator equiped 914 i have one for sale (don't need two) or if you want, buy it and weld up the holes in the front and go back to air cooled. If you want a modern high power in-expensive motor in the 914, adding a radiator is one way to go, maybe not the only way, but certainly viable. It like pick you own style. but the advice on keeping the parts you remove for radiator install will assure that if the 914 becomes worth its weight in gold in original configuration, you can put it back, and recover the value.

Hey could someone just scan and post the valuation info from excellance
for those that don't receive it?

Isn't that called a Boxster? Of course Porsche would have put a radiator in the 914 by now.

I think the ultimate decision is whether you want a vintage aircooled 914 or some type of hybrid. Personally, I want the vintage car. A hybrid doesn't interest me but I certainly understand why for others the 914 is just a great chassis for the conversion of their choice.

Me, i am thinking of a way to get the radiator working in the engine bay. May not work too well with a tall Vee engine, not much room above,a nd the headers are close tot eh lid. A Subaru powered car should have more space above the engine, and allow this (maybe) . That would be nice, a conversion water cooled engine, with no front trunk modifications.

Its been done...and successfully. Search for Scott Thachers car or contact him directly. His screen name is his real name.

For what it's worth, here's what I know.
I thought the "vintage feel" was important too. That's why I have a completely stock, pretty damn nice 1.7 as well as a very well done and sorted V8. I figured I would drive the V8 on colder days (with it's real actual hot heat), and on hotter humid days (with it's modern AC system), and drive the 1.7 on the better convertible sort of days. Reality: The 1.7 has been driven 3 times in 2 1/2 years. The V8 is a DD from April thru the 1st salt of November or December, and I get genuinely sad when I have to park it for the winter.

My observation has been that the overwhelming majority of those who say they don't care for the V8's for whatever reason, have never even ridden in one, let alone driven a well done example. I have been lucky enough to have had the chance to drive everything from a super nice old 240Z to a supercharged Mini to a 180k Bentley GT, with dozens of others in between. Without question in my book, none of them can come close to the fun of driving that V8. All the old crap about "too heavy", "higher center of gravity" and "screwed up front to back weight distribution" is all just that, crap. The real difference in "feel" between my 1.7 and V8: when I put my foot in the throttle on the 1.7, I can sense some aceleration coming on; In the V8, I'm pushed back into the seat HARD, and I have the distinct "feel" that if I let go of the steering wheel even a little, the car will shoot out from under me like a rocket, and leave me sitting in the middle of the road.

I will have the V8 until I'm too old to drive it anymore. I'm not so sure about the 1.7.

And you will feel horrible when the car is sold to someone in Arizona, and they backdate the exhaust, install carbs, and trash the emissions equipment