oooookay... I'm so confused. I wish I had seen the original thread last night.

Jen

umm i linked it a few posts up

I know. I thought the use of s were just a figure of speech, like the way we use s

Jen

Are there any other who have been scammed??? It seems like this person is feeding off this club to build a GT clone. Should be DAMN easy to spot.

Victorville is a small town, is there a cruse or a place that the Gearheads hang out

there? He shouldn't be to far away on Friday and Saturday nights.

Seems that a lot of the orders were from this ad.

Carl was this you or was he using your club addy back then?

Classified Ad

If I can find his card, I wouldn't mind conctacting Officer Daniels (the officer that stopped by Ron's shop that was a former 914 owner I posted about a while ago). Since he is local, maybe he could run some #'s. Hopefully he will show up at the swap meet. He said he would try.

Guys, this is just getting worse and worse.

Came home tonight and the FIRST email in my box was from Sergio Meza, and I don't know what his username is but I do know he's here on 914world.com.

Sergio says "my roommate" ordered a GT lid from him, then per usual stiffed him $260. Sergio is, understanably, pissed.

I gave him the same personal info I gave Craig & Eric, told him about this thread, asked him to come here and tell us what parts he lost, what the M.O. was and if he had any other info. It's probably going to take some time for him to digest this, see what leads we've come up with, etc etc, but anything he can offer is going to help. So...I'll give him time to get caught up and I'll go see what I missed today.

That's lower than snail slime

Oh holy crap I'm gonna get killed.

OK, let me try to answer a couple of these:

So.Cal.914 yeah, I mentioned I've seen the 908 at Farmer Boys Thursday night cruise. I went last week, I'll go again tomorrow, and hopefully the crowd will be different enough that someone will know him.

Eric that was my ad. Doesn't look good for me, but yeah, it was my ad.

Dr Evil, yeah, that is absolutely the guy.

Craig, did you get my package?

Also, does anybody happen to know if that wife of his drives an older Mercedes? I was doing my nightly cruise up the street I think he lives on and saw a truck just like the one that has now twice cruised by my house real slowly, parked in the driveway next to a mid-'80s Mercedes 450 SL. Wrote down the address and both plates just in case that pans out.

I still don't think this is everybody or everything. We're still only up to $1,200 and this sophisticated a plan should be well into the 5-digit range. I started thinking about high-dollar Porsche parts that he could use this scheme on and I think we need to see if any sellers of these items have dealt with him.

--3.0+ _6 engines command $7500 or more
--Full body kits like the Group-5 kit I asked about are something like $1400
--Boxster trannies are, what, $3K?
--Genuine Porsche wheels range from $500 a set to an average of $2,500

I also SERIOUSLY doubt this is limited to Porsche parts. Why would he limit himself to something this traceable and this unsellable? I'm betting there's big screen TVs, car stereos, computers, satellite systems, hell a good digital camera is $2K.

I'd hate to say it, but I don't think I can be ruled out as a suspect. In a court you don't have to prove innocence, but this isn't a court. Moreover, I think we should go through my old posts, old emails, anything anybody has under the drdstny UID and see if there's any mention of Paypal or buying stuff or wanting stuff or anything that implies I'm not married, have a rommate--whatever. I need some help, because I feel the need to clear my name. I need the group to let me know what would satisfy them. I know that cocksucker is on this board, reading this, and that's fine too, but I don't want my reputation destroyed before it's even built. What proves I did? What proves I didn't? I HOPE my word alone is enough, but I shouldn't assume.

I think it was Monday I couldn't log into 914world.com, went nuts, tried logging in several times, and finally the password worked. I don't know if Vagina tried to change the password then decided against it or what, but I'd like to know if there's some way to see if drdstny has logged into 914world.com from anywhere other than my house and how far back that history is.

As far as proaction goes, I have a note on the front door that says "HOLD ALL PACKAGES AT WILL CALL, DO NOT LEAVE PACKAGES WITHOUT SIGNATURE" just in case anyting else shows up, but what else can I do? This whole experience has been draining to say the least and I'm just running out of ideas. Yesterday, I thought we had a good handle on this, then Sergio appeared. Now...?

Digital. Camera. Or a prosumer camcorder.

For taking porno pictures.

Crap.

This guy is still out there? The pictures of him with his wife/mom(?) is definately STEVE "TURD" STROMBERG!!! Didn't he used to (or still live) in Costa Mesa? Now, Vacaville? There gotta be a way to stop him..... seriously....

I got screwed by him blindly and not quite done with him yet. However, what Carl had gone through right now, is the lowest I've heard. I have confronted TURD at his home in Costa Mesa and at Rimco so actually where does he live now?

I know there's more out there that got burned badly by TURD and now, I'm wondering if we all should band together and direct our complains to the FBI (dealing with Carl's case) and local police of where TURD is stinking their towns, just to get them realize the magnitude of the problem that we have to deal with. I could go to the small claim court to suck the life out of him but it's not strong enough to nail his ass.....grrrr....

oh, by the way, the picture of the car w/ crushed rear qtr panel isn't a 908, its 906 for sure....grew up with two of em....

j

Carl,

YES, he has the early model MBZ...yes!

He also had early 80 Buick or Oldsmobilbe ClunkerFuck....

Pick up truck? Don't recall that....

Hey guys & gals,

Please forgive me if I'm ranting and fouling here with my previous comments....I just lost it when TURD's name cropped up....I'd want to help in any way I can to nail that sucker up the wall....

j

What $$$ limit is grand larsony? That will get the attention of the local police and good jail time.

Holy! Just read all this. I had a phone conversation with you know who when he was working at Otto's place. Almost placed a parts order through him. Called back and John told me he canned him. John may want in on this too. Best of luck to all you guys.

obviously the thief lurks. stop giving up the game plan out front. nail down the id and move forward. costa messa members know exactly where ss lives or lived and have contact info. if the house has new tennants, someone has relocated. this is the tip of the iceberg.

eric, you might consider stamping serial #s on your control arm packages in some obscure spot.

k

I e-mailed Wayne and Dave (GPR Dave) last week and alerted them.

Got an e-mail yesterday from Wayne saying he tried to scam PP but they caught it and cancelled the order.

Glad I was able to help someone else at least.

Everyone keep your eyes open. This looks to be the single largest scam directed at the club and it's members and vendors. As a fairly small and tight knit group, we're trusting and... easy pick'ns.

Sure Aaron, as soon as I post supporting you, you go and reverse your position. No wonder I only lurk.

Carl, Man I feel for you. It sounds like you have the right attitude. Keep your chin up. Stay above board and help those who have been scammed realizing you will be under suspicion and I'm sure you will end up with your reputation intact.

Is there an admin who is, or is willing to try and be the point of contact on this? It looks like he was targeting this board, and the "914 community". Ideally the contact should be someone who hasn’t been scammed.

I have no idea what is really happening here. But an organization, to deal with this type of thing efficiently, must have a plan in place and BEFORE it happens and the really must be practiced BEFORE. Since the club is a non-club/non-organization I doubt “we” are prepared.

Do not take this in any way as being critical. I wish I could help, but as a mostly lurker I don’t feel I have the reputation or recognition to be credible and I know I do not have the skills to lead this.

And on that note I’d like to say thank you to Eric, Aaron, Dr. Evil and everyone else who is helping to out this invader.

has anyone contacted the FTC yet?

This thread NEEDS to die for the investigation's sake. NOW
Mark D.

Then don't post.

QUOTE

Now, I have provided Craig and Eric with more information about me than a mortgage application, all in good faith, all without them asking for
it.

This is true. Carl provided both Craig and I with all his personal contact information the minute I PM'd him back with the address of Eugene Belyarchik. I even got a prompt phone call from Carl stating there "We have a big problem".

I think the best way to look at this is, everyone is a suspect. Even Carl states that in his recent post. "I'd hate to say it, but I don't think I can be ruled out as a suspect." I've always had that view. Not to single out Carl but not to rule anyone out. With the Opening of the "Con-Man" post a few days ago and the extension of this post there's more information flowing in via the thread and PM's so naturally, a few questions that have come up.

Carl, this will be directed at you. I'm sorry. At this point I hold no malice I just need some answers. You have been very consistent with the grey 914 and the 908 story and I'm honestly hoping you have answers for these questions. If you do, it will help direct our efforts... seriously. Please help us here:

1. "I have provided Craig and Eric with more information about me than a mortgage application" - True. If I was pissed at PayPal because they reversed a $2,100 laptop charge and Craig and Eric contacted me the same problem (PayPal reversals) one of the first things out of my mouth would be "Those SOB's at PayPal... they did the EXACT same thing to me last month!" I would have dropped PayPal in a heartbeat. In fact, because they're not honoring a claim against a verified address, I'm changing my sites ecommetry to "Authorize.net" In full disclosure, you failed to mention a crime with the exact same MO happened to you. Not until Mike brought it up did we hear about that. Seems substancial. Why?

2. "I have provided Craig and Eric with more information about me than a mortgage application" - Again, with the exception that the EXACT same thing happened to James, Mike and the Club and you made good on those. This didn't come out until almost two weeks later in the con-man thread. Mike came forward. James came forward. I understand that you can't or shouldn't be responsible for purchase that "Eugene" took off your porch but... Again, in full disclosure mode, I would have said "James, Mike and even the club got hit with reversals as well... they were unrelated but..." Right from the start I would have mentioned the laptop incident and the fact that "other" vendors on the club and the club itself got hit. Even if they were so-called "unrelated". They're related now as Club vendors and PayPal reversals. This didn't come out until the new con-man thread. All told, you've been involved in 4 PayPal reversals up to the time Craig and I spoke with you, 3 from club vendors, yet you never mentioned them. Why?

3. Why come back? I'm the thief. I've gotten away with this elaborate scam. Sorry... I'm outta here. I'm gonna lay low. Maybe watch the club and laugh at your sorry asses while you try to track me down. This may not be a question for you but one for the masses. Why? Why would I come back? Why would I steal Carl's identity? How would I steal Carl's identity? I realize that boards like InVision and V-Bulletin can be riddled with security issues but... why pick you? Can anyone tell me how the system was compromised? IP addresses can be made to look like anything, especially by a fairly knowledgeable propeller head. How and why did this Eugene get in the 914Club InVision system?

4. The classified ad has really prompted this. This One. As I see it, that post is how Eugene got all his stuff (or a majority of it) and you state; "Eric that was my ad. Doesn't look good for me, but yeah, it was my ad." You're right. This doesn't look good for you. To me it reads 1/2 Carl and 1/2 Eugene.

Carl wanted a club badge - Carl got a club badge and even paid for it with a check when PayPal reversed his charges.

In the ad you say to Craig - "boxster, put me down for everything on your list. I need the eyebrows, doors, housings, everything apart from the pivots." This is in Post #12. Now these are "Eugene" purchases.

It looks like "you" ordered Sergio's engine lid from this WTB ad. (Post #5). You claim in post #58 on this thread "Sergio says "my roommate" ordered a GT lid from him, then per usual stiffed him $260. Sergio is, understanably, pissed." So it now seems this is a "Eugene" purchase.

This "is" your ad. There are items through out this WTB ad that "you" requested. These are now being claimed as "Eugene Purchases". Why?

Carl, please make sense of this for me (and others). You seem like a good guy and very forthright. You can either run away from all of this, which in itself will answer a lot of questions or... you can camp out and give us some explanations and solutions or at least tie up some of these loose ends. This would really help us concentrate our efforts.

If I were you reading this, I'd probably be fuming right about now, especially if I was innocent. Please. Take some time and let us know your side.

please readers... let the next response be Carl's and carls only

If anyone has anything else to contribute please weigh in. I agree with Aaron though... this is not a Carl lynch mob. Carl has been very forthright and for all I know... he'll simply solve all of these issues.

If you have any further info on the guy in the picture please let us know. We are checking with West Side Equipment Rentals to see who rented that trailer the 906 clone is on during the GAF week. Hopefully this is a solid lead and we can make some headway and find this guy.

I stamp "stars" on them!

(sorry... little obscure humor for Martin... at least I can still laugh)

(Carl edited this on 3 Nov 06 to remove some uninvolved pronouns.)



I will address your issues.



I did! To you, to everyone I know!



I did! Take a look at the WTB ad, I even say as much!



That's not true at all, and these two comments upset me because you actually heard this story from me the day I called you. How many times did we talk on the phone that weekend? This was no secret at all, I told Mike L. WAAAY before you and I ever crossed paths because THAT was the Paypal unwind that cost me on the badge, bolts and Rennshift.

Also, it wasn't the exact same MO. I hadn't used my eBay account in MONTHS, seriously months, and I had 2 extra Dell laptops and decided to sell one and trade one for a plasma cutter. I put the only unopened XPS on eBay and someone wrote me saying, "What is your buy-it-now price?" I said it depended on the shipping costs, but I would certainly do $2,000 plus whatever the shipping is. They came back and said, "So if I Paypal you $2,100 you'd end the auction now and sell it to me?" Foolishly, I agreed. Shipping was $47. A MONTH LATER, after I'd already spent the money, they reversed payment. Now, the buyer was in Dublin, CA. Should we assume it was Sergio? I never even considered that. Never.

Now, when you come over, you are welcome to examine the Miller Spectrum 375 plasma cutter, still new in its unopened box, still labeled *TO ME* with a UPS label, then you can call who bought it, contact them and verify I traded the other Dell laptop for it. You are WELCOME TO, I asked what I could do to help and I stand behind that.

The thing is, this is IRRELEVANT! I can't bitch at you about a laptop sale. It has nothing to do with anything we're discussing. The two Porsche items I purchased were IMMEDIATELY repaid. Immediately. I get no credit for that? I get no credit for hitting up Mike Lezniak IN ADVANCE and saying, "You know, I think I'm about to get screwed by Paypal over a laptop deal gone south. If that happens and you get your bolts payment reversed, please let me know and I'll make good."

Ask Mike. ASK HIM! At least 2 weeks before anything Eugene-like happened, I watched in horror as the only two Porsche things I've bought since selling the black car to Greg just came apart in my face.

Now, you think that's suspicious? I suppose I see where you're coming from, but I don't think it would be more suspicious than me blathering on and on about what you deem "the exact same MO" happening to me. On top of the irrelevance, it's none of anybody's business. If I had *BOUGHT* the laptop it would be a huge sticking point. If I had RECEIVED the laptop it would be a huge sticking point. I didn't; I sold it. So what? Who cares that I got ripped off? That makes me innocent and free from blame in this case? It would HAVE TO BE in order for me to cite its relevance. The only purchases I made with the laptop income were reimbursed PROMPTLY. End of issue with the laptop.

But I did tell you, Eric, and you weren't the only one I told.



Excuse me? It was ONE reversal. One laptop. As for why, this was covered: it was unrelated and addressed before you and I spoke.

I'm sorry, this is just baffling to me. Perhaps you can help me understand how it is that I as a seller losing money correlates to you as a seller losing money when both of our buyers are different people in different parts of the country. Help me understand how to follow the money from the dude that got my laptop to you. This seems to be your major point of contention, and it doesn't hold water with me.



My identity wasn't stolen, my address was, and clearly someone got my password to this site. They deleted a post, and I put it right goddamn back. If I deleted it posing as Eugene, why would I put it back within an hour of being locked out of my own account? Was it or was it not the EXACT same post, VERBATIM? I mean, I can see deleting a post because a WORD incriminated me, deleting the word, then reposting the post, I guess I can see that. I can see doing so to edit the post and then of the differences say, "Well, the version I had saved differed from the original because I made some edits in the website that weren't in what I saved and I forgot what those were. Sorry, but at least we got the meat of it."



Again, we've been over this. None of this happened until I sold the black car to Greg. Eugene came to look at it. He lives close by. I may have mentioned 914world.com, my UID--the license plate on my car says DRDSTNY; how hard do you really think it is? I believe I was picked for proximity alone.



He didn't have to. He had my username and was therefore halfway in. He knew I had a 914 and he was therefore half absolved.



Sorry you feel that way. I have been completely up-front with you, gave you every method to reach me, explained my victimization and when the damning finger points my way...I didn't have an alibi? Wait, should I have? Should I have just said nothing until pressed to answer? I believe in saying "this doesn't look good for me," I said, "Damn, this sucks, I feel for you man, and I understand your suspicions, do what you need to do. I hope you recognize cooperation when you see it."



Irrelevant. You're confusing the jury. Has nothing to do with ads, you, Craig, Sergio, anything. You're also conveniently leaving out the fact that I PAID WITH MY OWN PAYPAL ACCOUNT. YOU guys got shafted by some fuckhole Eugene off *HIS* Paypal account. When mine went south, I made good. I don't know any Eugene, Yevgney whateverhisnameis. I made good BEFORE this bullshit Eugene thing, not after. Not under coercion. Not because I thought someone might get suspicious, but BEFORE, because THAT'S WHAT HONEST PEOPLE DO.



No, not true at all, now you're being vindictive. Now you are REALLY going over the line. Eugene did NOT purchase "everything but the pivots."

Yes, I wanted everything on that list. However, Eugene bought Euro turn signal housings, two seat tracks, front and rear trunk hinges or springs or struts (can't recall) and THAT'S IT. Craig told me so. Craig did NOT sell Eugene the headlights, eyebrows, doors and housings. Why did you leave THAT out? Seems suspicious to me that the stuff I'm missing was not sold, but the stuff I'm NOT missing DID get sold.



Really? The same way I "ordered" 5-lug conversion parts or the way I "ordered" headlight buckets, eyebrows and housings? I asked about them, I got an answer, I wrote it off my list, and when I discovered AA sells the mesh to do it yourself for $55, I passed on the $250 lid because I already have a lid, a welder, and some extra "propeller head."

I did not ORDER Sergio's lid, I asked about it. The WTB ad is not a receipt or even an order form.



Yep. Well, some of it. The thing is, this is VERY circumstantial. Not everything on the list has been appropriated by the thief, and not everything the thief appropriated was on the list...like YOUR FUCKING TRAILING ARMS which are the most expensive thing stolen to date at, what, $820??



No idea. You do a disservice by implying to the forum that everything I asked about was bought by Eugene. Please explain the MAJOR discrepancies like the headlight situation and maybe I'll come to understand your question as being anything but antagonistic.

I looked for some new parts, some reproduction parts, and some used parts, making a nice neat shopping list. Once I knew who offered them, I scratched them off my list. I did not order any new or repro parts, because those would always be there by the time I needed them. USED stuff I bought right away, and most of that was Bruce Stone, paid in cash, in person, in two trips. I went as far north as FRESNO for the doors because they were free, I went back to UTAH, Eric, for the engine, 4-lug wheels (my car had none), struts, 4-fucking-bolt trailing arms and 4-bolt front struts. Why the HELL would I go to the trouble of driving 1,400 miles, round trip, for parts of a lesser quality than what you shipped to my house for FREE if I knew they were there, or even coming soon?

Why do I need to explain this? Why does it matter? I have a history of doing things very spur of the moment and driving long distances to get exactly what I want. When I'm done, I'm done, I'm not in this to make a profit. I gave you references of Tony and Greg, both here on 914club, BOTH of whom have bought NICE, RUNNING, DRIVING cars from me for $1,800 or less. Does that sound like someone who's in this for money? I sold Bob Mitchell's car at an $800 loss inside of 6 months of buying it. Is that a thief at work?

When Ron came out and PPI'd the car for Greg, I gave him a TRUCKLOAD of parts absolutely free as a gesture of camaraderie. I gave him a sideshifter trans core. I gave him a right side mirror, I gave him instrument clusters and a BUCKET of small parts, just to say "thanks for coming over." Is that what a thief does? I always thought it was what we did with each other on this list- STUPID FUCKING ME!

Doesn't it seem suspicious to you that I didn't mention my good will to Ron? Doesn't it seem suspicious to you that I didn't tell you what any of my references would say? Doesn't it seem suspicious to you that I left every contact open-ended, so you could do your own investigation and ASK them and come to your own conclusions without me tainting what I thought they'd say?

YOU DIDN'T ASK THEM! You didn't ask anybody! I gave you permission to investigate, and you DIDN'T! You're pointing the bone at me! You're dragging me through the mud out here in an open forum and you expect me to snap my fingers and make sense out of all this? I CAN'T!

Now I'm pointing it back at you, Eric, right where you fucking live. Go to <a place> in American Fork, 10 goddamn minutes from your house in Sandy. Ask for <a person>. Sit down with <a person> and ask him to describe me. Ask him how long he's known me. Ask him if I'm capable of theft. FUCKING ASK HIM! You won't believe me, ASK HIM! Ask him if I told him you were coming to meet him! Ask him if he knows anything about this! Ask him about my position on racism. Ask him about my political views. Ask him about my faith. Ask him what I do with my spare time, and who I spend it with, and why.

I can't make it any fucking easier for you, Eric, short of having <a person> go to YOUR house but then he'd know why you two needed to talk and that would spoil the integrity of the interview.

ANYONE who knows me KNOWs I would not do this, and you don't know me, I get it, so TALK TO SOMEBODY WHO DOES! Talk to people here on this board who've had past dealings with me! Rack up the tally, did I make a good deal, did I do what I said I'd do, did I make good on something gone bad, did I buy what I said I'd buy? OH CRAP, I didn't buy that $130 goddamned Treo Tom Tom because I was TOO BUSY talking with YOU at all hours of the night trying to HELP you find the fucker that is WALKING ON MY BACK.

FUCK, you missed out a GOLDEN opportunity here! Greg made two payments on the black car, the first one was with PAYPAL! He made the payment from 1200 miles away without EVER meeting me, without EVER knowing who I was or where I lived, and, like MAGIC, the thing he paid for was here when he arrived! And it was a GODDAMNED CAR!!! Would a thief conduct that sale appropriately and then do a TOTAL 180 within 45 days of that? With the same audience watching? With the same Paypal fiasco?

BMXerror told me about a thread on this board. The thread, he said, was about a scammer living in Victorville. BMXerror lives in Hesperia, the next city over by a few blocks. BMXerror said, "thought maybe you could help because you live in Victorville."

Me? OK, why not.

I see your post, I think, "Geez, that sucks," and I think about last year's swap at Glenn's where he gave my 3 kids free donuts and sold me a NICE mirror for $5 and I thought about Ron coming over on Greg's behalf to do a FREE PPI on a car he had no vested interest in and I thought about Bruce Stone who sold me the best sideshifter I've ever owned for $150 and fronted me $10 worth of parts and I think, "Man, I really want to be a part of this group, I want to surround myself with people like this in life, so hey, Eric, how can I help you?"

I wrote YOU. Doesn't that seem suspicious? Doesn't that seem like the hallmark of a guy getting ready to rip you off? I mean, after all, if someone said "Hey, Eric Shea got ripped off by a guy in Victorville," wouldn't it have made more sense for me to say, "Yeah, too bad, I'll drop him a PM" and then NOT DO SO? Doesn't it seem suspicious that I wrote you asking where the guy lived so I can go pick up your parts? Doesn't it? DOESN'T IT, ERIC? What the FUCK? Why would I INVITE disaster if I KNEW I had done something wrong? You would NEVER HAVE KNOWN ME if I hadn't written you! NEVER! You MIGHT have come to my house looking for your parts, but if I were a thief I would have answered the door, feigned stupidity and turned you away. You'd see no Porsches anywhere, 3 Audi Quattros and an Explorer, and the goddamned police would have been NO HELP because you don't get this fucking good without KNOWING what it takes to get away with it. If I had been the thief you would not have ANY reason to believe I had a 914 or was on 914world.com. I wouldn't have let you in, I would have denied having a 914, I would have denied ever hearing the name Eugene, and the cops wouldn't be able to do squat based solely on your accusation. You would have left empty handed and $300 more broke from the gasoline.

But if your trigger were any lighter, you would not have posted asking for help in Victorville, you would have just gone to Eugene's address looking for parts
and I would have heard about this disaster then, but I would have invited you in then and there BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT WE DO HERE ON 914CLUB.COM and you would have seen for yourself and you would KNOW ME and at least THEN you wouldn't NEED to talk to people I refer you to because you would have KNOWN.

I CALLED YOU, Eric, I had to dial 411 and ask for your number because you did not give it to me, I CALLED YOU! I did not know ANY way to impart my innocence to you so I gave you my address, my employer, references, everything. I GAVE THAT TO YOU UP FRONT. You did not ask, I recognized the severity of the situation and I wanted you to know I had NOTHING to hide. I STILL DON'T! I PM'd you asking how I could help with the Victorville scam situation, told you I lived in Victorville and the SECOND you gave me my own address I was IN THE CAR, on the way to the PD, calling YOU on the phone!! I WENT TO THE POLICE BEFORE YOU DID!

Doesn't that seem suspicious? Doesn't that seem like something a criminal would do? Call you, minutes after you gave the address? Going right into the belly of the beast where badges and guns and handcuffs live? Doesn't it seem suspicious that a thief who KNOWS DAMN WELL what address you would give would ASK FOR IT? Would even IMPLY he lives in Victorville? Would even offer to help? Yeah, criminals are WELL KNOWN for their openness and willingness to work with law enforcement.

WHY would I give you my address if I ripped you off? WHY would I give you my employer so you could contact me in the middle of the day (because I don't do personal email at work, you KNOW THAT TOO because you've gotten one from me at work and you know what they look like)? Why would I make sure you could reach me by AIM if, like this moment, I am underneath Downtown Los Angeles and unable to answer my cell phone? Wy the HELL would I tell you where I'm going, what I'm doing, what I do for a living when you can reach me, when you can't, if I ripped you off? Why would I take a call from you while I was in LAS VEGAS celebrating my 40th birthday with my WIFE, PEOPLE WHO *_KNOW_* ME, AND A FERRARI F40? Why the hell would I bother?? Doesn't it seem suspicious that I was in Las Vegas TWELVE HOURS AFTER WE SPOKE ON THE PHONE? Doesn't it seem suspicious that I called you up on the phone, full well knowing that the weekend of my LIFE was happening the next day, to tell you how to reach me? WHY THE HELL WOULD I DO THAT if I were ripping you off? I could have waited until Monday to call you or return your PM. Be honest here: did you EXPECT such a quick response, or were you thinking it might have been Monday before you heard anything?

I conduct myself properly. I am proud of who I am, and I have no regrets about giving you all that information. I don't fault you for thinking me guilty, I said as much, but you cannot expect me to sit in a corner, suck my thumb, and hope you just go away.

You don't KNOW ME, Eric, and that's the problem. In as short a time span as possible, I tried to show you who I am, but you can't trust a man's self-assessment: character is what people say about you behind your back. You never asked anyone who knows me to talk about me behind my back. And, frankly, I have no way to prove to you that I did not do this, because I swiftly and repeatedly acknowledge that it looks like I did. You don't HAVE to believe me, but it would really help just this once.



You have no idea. You REALLY have no idea.

Carl,

I missed all the ruckuss the other night. But there is one thought that popped into my brain as I read this thread.

Is there any chance that you have an unsecured wireless network running in your house?

Zach

"I conduct myself properly. I am proud of who I am, and I have no regrets about giving you all that information. I don't fault you for thinking me guilty, I said as much, but you cannot expect me to sit in a corner, suck my thumb, and hope you just go away."

powerful words, and i tend to agree....

thanks for chiming in here carl.

Forum readers, please lay off this post until eric can respond

fixed the quotes in the long post above ....
Andy

Everything that Carl said regarding me (Mike L. ) is 100% true for the record.

Oh yes I do... Thanks for the reply.

I'll let you calm down. Later I'll reiterate the points I felt were unclear and try to answer your concerns.

I'll deal with any accusations directed toward you publically, here so not to further blather on about you. Any other issues I will contact you via your cell or home phone.

I means a lot that you took the time to reply (even if it was only a few words)

I'm going to put some young'ns to bed.

Two things:

1. Carl, you even admitted that things didn't look great for you, that you might come off as a suspect. So you must expect that others might perceive that as well.

2. Eric said in his post that he was playing devil's advocate. It read pretty diplomatic to me. He even specifically wrote that he hoped you would respond and disspell any of his suspicions.

Jen

Jen, I'm not mad that he suspected me. I'm mad because:

1) He had all the tools necessary to exonorate me from day one and CHOSE not to use them before posting his accusation (and it WAS an accusation)
2) He left out a SHLOAD of stuff that would have supported me
3) He added stuff that supported the view that I'm a crook
4) He added stuff in a derogotory manner that had NOTHING to do with the situation ( the club badge, for one ) JUST for the purpose of padding the case against me
5) He LEFT OUT all the stuff I've done that no thief would EVER EVER EVER do, like the fact that as soon as Sergio contacted me (this was like yesterday or so), I replied to his note, CC'd Craig and Eric, brought him up to speed and said "please CC everybody here so we can keep track of what's happening." If I was a crook, why didn't I just brush Sergio off? Why didn't I just pay Sergio the $250, because that would have kept him quiet and he would never have known about the situation with Craig and Eric.

No. And when others show up (and they will, because this STILL isn't the kind of dollar value associated with this complex a fraud), I'll do the exact same thing.

Now, let me ask you, and everybody else here, a 2-part question:

(a) If you were Eric, and you got ripped off by someone saying they lived at my house, what would you require of me? What would be acceptable cooperation? What would be the MINIMUM you would expect to satisfy you that when I say "I didn't do it," you believe me?

( b ) If you were me, and some sleazeball had packages billed to HIM but shipped to YOUR address then came by and picked them up while you were gone, what would you do when you found out this happened?

I bet nobody comes up with anything that hasn't already been done.

I'm pissed off because I realized I would be suspicious and then tried to give Eric plenty of information to find me, to meet me, to meet others, to talk to others, to research my dealings here and other Porsche and Audi boards and work and everything I could think of to ease his mind. I gave ALL that same information to Craig and Sergio. And Eric didn't use it. He didn't talk to anybody, he did NO homework. He just posted saying, "Looks like it's half you and half Eugene."

I went to Eric. Nobody came to me. This fact has been completely forgotten.

If you were watching TV and there was a news flash that a killer was on the loose, and they said the killer lived in your neighborhood and drove the kind of car you drove, and they put your picture on TV...what would you do? Would you go to the cops, or would you let your loudmouth neighbor call them for you?

Relax before the hole gets deeper. Your saying a bunch of stuff that you can't qualify. It's not helping.

I understand your anger.

Carl,

1. If I had tools to exonerate you, I would. Trust me. I don't have a hard-on for you. None of the questions I asked had tool associated with them to exonerate you. Otherwise I wouldn't have asked them.
2. I put in a shit load of stuff that supported you. Read "all" my other posts on this subject.
3. I asked questions about discrepancies that supported the view that you were a crook. I didn't "add" anything.
4. I "never" attempted to "pad" a case against you. I asked questions Carl. Questions, like, what's up with that classified thread? I even stated that the classified thread is what really got me thinking - read below for clarification.
5. Regarding Sergio - I found out yesterday at 8:30 through other means. His story entered a new twist, a room-mate. I attempted to contact him immediately.

Again, read below Carl. I damn near contacted and suspected everybody. I read every single post of yours here. Yes, I even saw your posting on the Audi board thanking them for the wealth of information etc...



No I didn’t and neither did Craig. Craig and I have discussed this. The first I heard about the laptop and the reversal was from Mike. Seriously, we did not discuss this over the phone nor was it discussed in the previous daily e-mails we’ve exchanged. Mike (Dr Evil) informed me of that in a PM on the 24th and I’m sure he’ll vouch for that. We have the PM trail. When I learned of it from Mike I e-mailed you. Remember?:

*************************
Subj: Re: scam dude
Date: 10/24/2006 3:15:13 PM Mountain Daylight Time
From: PMBPerformance
To: Carl_Payne@xxx.xxx

What's the laptop thing Mike's talking about? Do you think this guy bought your laptop? Was he actually using your PayPal account?

*********************************

It just seems odd to me, especially when other club members became involved. I asked a question…



I don’t want to get embroiled in semantics.

• You sent something out which was paid for via PayPal
• Later the buyer reversed the charges
• I sent something out which was paid for via PayPal
• Later the buyer reversed the charges

Exact same MO in my book. mo•dus op•er•an•di - a particular way of doing things.



I wouldn’t say you got no credit… in my prior post I write: “At this point I hold no malice I just need some answers. You have been very consistent with the grey 914 and the 908 story and I'm honestly hoping you have answers for these questions.” –and- “You seem like a good guy and very forthright.” And finally, before your reply I write “Carl has been very forthright and for all I know... he'll simply solve all of these issues.” You’ve chosen to attack me. I understand your anger and I hope it will blow over so you can go back and answer the questions asked.



Well, no you didn’t. Not until the 24th. That’s my issue…

************************************************
Subj: Re: scam dude
Date: 10/24/2006 7:43:50 PM Mountain Daylight Time
From: Carl_Payne@xxxx.xx
To: PMBPerformance@cs.com

Received from Internet: click here for more information

On 24 Oct 2006, at 14:15, PMBPerformance@cs.com wrote:

<<What's the laptop thing Mike's talking about? Do you think this guy bought
your laptop? Was he actually using your PayPal account?>>


I sold a laptop on eBay. Shipped it and everything. I actually sold a lot of stuff on eBay that week, a lot of Audi parts, some software, nothing major.

The laptop, however, was a brand new Dell 17" worth about $3K. it sold for $2100, the guy paid with Paypal, and I went shopping. I bought a Rennshift, a 914club badge, Mike's bolts and that was about it.

The guys who bought the laptop is totally unrelated to this whole mess. But, the important thing is, he/she/whatever said I didn't send it, reversed the payment, and those 3 items unwound. The Rennshift actually RE-wound, as James and I talked to PP, they said he met Seller's protection requirements, and he got paid about a week after they reversed payment. Mike and Mike (bolts and badge) ended up getting checks from me.

Paypal closed that account last week (?) whenever it was; I'm sure I told you, and their reason was because my address was associated with a fraud claim.

Haven't seen the club posts yet, I'm sure this is what you're talking about so I'll go look, but that's the gist of it.

**************************************************

I started the second thread earlier that day:

**************************************************
Con-Man in SoCal, Yevgeniy (Eugene) Belyarchik Options
Eric_Shea
Oct 24 2006, 02:27 PM
**************************************************

The relevance I see?

• This is the first time I’ve had a PayPal Reversal. I agree it may be irrelevant and subjective but I (me personally) would have instantly mention my PayPal problems. This is all new to me. I’m sure you handle things differently.
• This is the first time I’ve heard of Mike and then James having problems. The relevance is 914club vendors that had PayPal reversals from you. You never mentioned it before.
• I got stuff stolen from me and it was shipped to your house. I’m looking under every rock I can Carl.

Regardless if it were a separate incident Carl, it bears a resemblance to PayPal, Reversals and 914club Vendors. We first began communicating the issues on 10/13. Eleven days later, this comes out and not from you… the guy who’s been so forthright. Above are the two e-mails dated and time stamped when we discussed it. Not the first day on the phone as your suggesting to everyone in your reply. Let’s drop it… that’s simply for clarification.



Then it affected Mike = reversal #2
Then it affected James = reversal #3
Then it affected the club = reversal #4

Yes, you made good and we all see that and honor that. My question wasn’t “any” of that. My question is why did it take a second thread and 11 days before Craig and I knew about that stuff? As far as I can read… that still hasn’t been answered. You say through out your post you did, that day on the phone but… the e-mails above show a different path. I’m not going to chase you down on this, especially if it’s without merit. It just seems important with all these PayPal reversal scams flying about.



Here’s a path for you to follow again:

1. You sent something out which was paid for via PayPal
2. Later the buyer reversed the charges (club vendors were affected)
3. Craig and I sent something out which was paid for via PayPal
4. Later the buyer reversed the charges

It is not a bone of contention Carl. I just asked you why you didn’t mention any of that until 11 days later. Maybe I’m digging way too deep here but if that string of things happened to me it would have been one of the first things out of my mouth.



Semantics again Carl. I think we all know what was meant. I know what happened also, Again, it’s not what I asked. I asked; Why? Sure would like anyone to chime in with an answer. You know this stuff… how could he get your password? If you find the answer, we may find the crook. This is why I ask questions.



Everyone is then half absolved. Does anyone have an answer as to how someone can log on using another persons screen name? So far no answers. Carl, again, I’m not trying to be mean or vindictive, I’m just looking for answers to areas that don’t make sense to me.



Relevant. There is no Jury. The relevance “is” that you were honest and paid for it. The “other” items in that thread “seemed” to be tied to the scam. Am I wrong? GT Lid, Euro Lenses? The only items not in that thread are MY FUCKING TRAILING ARMS (as you put it). It “seems” Carl, (SEEMS) that both good guy and bad guy were mixed in that thread. I tried to contact Sergio to see how the transaction went down… no reply. Craig and I have been talking on and off line almost daily.



Carl, I’m not being vindictive. I never said he purchased everything... you did, in the classifed thread. "put me down for everything on your list." I asked a question. The Euro Lenses on that list were part of the Eugene scam. Craig mentioned to me in private that he didn’t send the brows and covers but Craig also just PM’d me stating “I am curious how he knows Eugene did not buy the headlight parts? I never said he did or did not, actually I never mentioned those parts and had forgotten about them until I read the post this morning that included Carl asking WTB parts in the classifieds.”



First answer all post. I understand you’re angry.



It wasn’t antagonistic at all. I just wanted answers to the questions. You see them as major descrepencies, I don’t. We’re two different people. In that classified thread you ask for:

1. A Badge
2. Euro Lenses
3. A GT Engine Lid

To me... that's a classified thread that has you asking about everything that's been stolen with the exception of my trailing arms (and the badge of course). I think my question was appropriate.



Sorry Carl. This is where you're wrong. I asked pretty much “everybody” that I knew had contact with you. They can weigh in.



Probably because you weren’t cc’d on the e-mails or a 3rd party on the phone calls. Sorry Carl. Nearly all of the people I spoke with have been following along and they didn’t think your story held water. This is one of the reasons I posted my questions here. I have to admit, there’s something about you Carl that makes me want to believe every stitch. The other side is… this is the most bizarre fuck’n I’ve ever taken. On one hand… it’s a thief, so by nature, that’s makes him stupid. On the other hand… if he’s pulled off all these front porch robbing, PayPal scamming, 914club boning, password stealing maneuvers, I’d say his talent is being wasted. I don’t have a bone of contention Carl. I’ll say this, I’d be willing to bet everyone here hopes you’ve got great answers… I’ll bet everyone here hopes you fight back. I do. I hope you’re right.



With 55 posts under your belt, I searched and read every single one. I saw nothing “other than the Classified ad” that suggested you were anything but a welcome addition to the club.



I’m not sure I have exhibited a light trigger here Carl. This happened 10/12/06. Carl, you must understand, that contrary to common thought, that all of that interaction can look suspicious. That’s just a fact. Yeah, yeah… I watched Columbo too. The killer was always the guy following him around trying to help him solve the crime. I figured that out by the time I was 11 years old. I understand your anger and frankly, I predicted it. Again, I'm just looking for answers.

Side Note: Please don’t give me lessons on how we do things on the 914club. Maybe it’s you who could ask around.

Carl, I understand you called me, and said you called the police. You must understand, I’m on the other end of a phone and a computer. I don’t know you at all. You could be Steve Stromberg. I don’t know you Carl. I don’t. You could tell me you have a friend at NASA that was checking for Eugene on the moon. I don’t have a report number or an officers’ name or… or… or…



Excellent Carl. Excellent way to live. I don’t think you’re guilty nor do I think you’re innocent. I like the fact that you gave all of us all that information. Like Jen said, I was trying to be diplomatic and I expected some answers. I got very few. I don’t expect you to go in a corner and suck your thumb. I thought you had fairly high character from all your threads I read. I just needed answers and we’ve been making a lot of progress with this thread in the open. I frankly don’t want you to “hope I go away”. If you’re innocent Carl then damn it, be innocent.

If you have any ideas as to how this could have been pulled off, weigh in. I’ll back off on this whole thing. This 914 community is too damn small. Whoever it is “will” get caught. Carl, read my post with “Empathy”. It shouldn’t be hard for you to walk a mile in my shoes as you think back about your laptop deal gone awry.

Sorry Andy... html language isn't working for me. Quotes be quotes. I'm tired.

Personal opinion...

You guys need to schedule a phone call together for a couple of hours.

With greatest regards, To BOTH of you.

Clayton

OK, you covered a lot of ground and I don't need to respond to every point. Here's the stuff that warrants a response:





From my viewpoint, I was attacked for helping. That's an oversimplification, but you get the idea.

I think that's viewpoint again.

About the laptop:

I honestly, genuinely did not think it was relevant. I'm SURE I mentioned it to SEVERAL people, and perhaps I assumed I mentioned it to you. It was a HUGE deal around this house, I assure you, and if I didn't mention it to you on the phone, then I did mention it on the phone...just not to you. When you tell evrybody about being wronged, it's difficult to recall who you're telling twice.

I just...I still don't see how it's relevant. However, I had an hour to think this thought over as I drove home, and here's how I think it might be relevant. Correct me if I'm wrong.

<DEVIL'S ADVOCATE MODE ON>

I sold a laptop. The buyer backed out of his Paypal purchase. In trying to recover my $2,100, I discovered I had no recourse whatsoever because nobody signed for the laptop. Disgusted and seeking revenge on anybody I could return the favor to, I did the exact same thing to 914 people, using the exact same methods. Mwahahaha, nobody will ever get me, I can just blame a fictitious entity. Let me use the name of some fat kid in High School or some bozo who ripped off my Slurpee.

</DEVIL>

Am I close?

See, the problem with that is the GROUNDWORK. Think about what it takes to open a Paypal account. You need a payment method. You need some way to pay for your stuff. Right? You need a bank account or a credit card. Now, I'm sure you could just open an account and accept money and pay for that stuff with the same money, but Eugene had a CONFIRMED ADDRESS.

You get a confirmed address with a credit card or bank account. BOTH of which require identification. BOTH of which require some sort of proof you are who you say you are and you live where you say you live.

OK, so we've covered the residency requirements, how about the identity? I'm at an absolute dead-end--no offense, no sarcasm, I simply have no idea how to find a person who looks like me but has a different name, know their personal information like driver's license number, etc, to open a bank account or obtain a credit card.

THAT, my friend, is identity theft, wouldn't you agree? The notion that I am somehow responsible for this theft and fraud--in ANY way--is tantamount to accusing me of identity theft. Because THAT is what it would take to pull this off FINANCIALLY. Logistically, hell, anybody can ship to an address and live at another. Cakewalk. But to get the funds to begin with...not so simple.

The other problem with this is that I had a Paypal account at the same time "Eugene" did. The proof of that is the 3 purchases going south. Yeah, you're right, it was actually 4, but let's stick to 914world.com situations ONLY for clairity and ease.

My account worked fine. I would have no need for a second account if I could just populate my own with ill-gotten gain, or MAKE ill-gotten gain with some fraudulent sales...say sell a laptop and not deliver it.

HEY, that reminds me--has anybody checked eBay to see if Eugene was stupid enough to use his own name as a seller ID?

Anyway, back to the issue. So knowing how much groundwork would be needed to open a Paypal account, it's safe to say that both my account and Eugene's existed at the same time. With me so far? If you look at the timetable of purchases and events, both my purchases for bolts, badge and the like would have to have happened within days of Eugene's purchases. Why would I open one account when I have one of my own?

<DEVIL'S ADVOCATE MODE ON>

Because I know I'm going to commit fraud and don't want to sully my own Paypal account or reputation on 914world.com.

</DEVIL>

OK, I follow that, I guess that makes sense as far as MOTIVE, but doesn't explain the ability to open a bank account or get a credit card necessary to open a Paypal account by the time both my purchases and Eugene's purchases happened.

THAT kind of crap does NOT happen all of a sudden, out of the blue, with an upstanding guy with NO history of even the slightest hint of a criminal record, inside a month or less.

Think about what it takes to get a bank account or credit card. You'd need a birth date, a social security number, a current address, a previous address, an employer, a mother's maiden name and an income. In order to continue the Devil's Advocate motif, I'll need a little help and imagination. Give me some creative ideas how I might stumble upon ALL of the things necessary to open a bank account or obtain a credit card.

OK, ok, you know what, there's another way this could happen. Eugene could really be my roommate. He could be a person I really know. He could be a guy who wants to upgrade his GT clone.

Actually, there's another way this could happen. He could be somebody I know casually, somebody to share in the spoils of war. Were that the case, that would explain how he got stuff I already had. Maybe he didn't have it but I did. Maybe I'm protecting him because he has a long criminal record and we have the 3-strikes law here in CA, and if I get caught it'll only be probation and restitution.

Over $1,200 worth of parts? NO friendship is worth that.

The point is, a little bit of imagination comes up with all kinds of scenarios, and every single one of them COULD be the truth. But why would you accept ANY of them when I tell you I'm innocent, these are circumstantial as any of the other scenarios, and that I have no history of doing this?



Fair enough. What questions did I not answer?



OK, but I think we established that I didn't and don't see how it's relevant just because you and I both got screwed the same way. I hope the Devil's Advocate scenario above shows I tried to understand this, so let me know if that's what you're thinking or WHAT it is you're thinking.



I don't fault you, and didn't fault you. I just think your methods were way way way over the top and too extreme considering how much I offered long before the extremity. The closest I can come to my rationale of this is the phrase "No good deed goes unpunished."



I can't account for that. The only thing I can offer is that I truly did not believe they were related. Clearly I DID tell someone about it or you wouldn't have found out about it. I also really believe I told you and if I DID tell you I would be careful not to hammer that point every time we spoke or it would be akin to me blaming your misfortune on mine.



Then my anger and disgust clouded the issue. Remind me what needs answered and I'll address it. If the point was that I didn't address the laptop sale for 11 days, then my answer has been stated a couple times now. Basically, because NONE of that transaction involved you, I had no reason to bring it up. I also have no reason to discuss the $7,000 Sun Microsystems E6500 I sold or the $30 Reese trailer wiring kit that got un-Paypalled. They simply don't have anything to do with the transaction.



You are digging too deep. From my perspective, if our roles were reversed and you'd mentioned the laptop sale to me, I'd go right for the throat with, "You've done this before and you have a pat answer."



Exactly, that's why I spelled out how to get that information from MySQL. I agree with you 100%. I asked for someone to run a check of every IP address the drdstny account was logged in from. There is absolutely no telling how long he had access, but a list of IPs other than home & work would give us a better estimate.



Very simple. You have the screen name, you guess a password and you keep guessing it until your login is successful. You can do this with a "wget" or a "curl" and a POST method from any terminal window in any operating system, and you can run it unattended all night while you dream of 5-lug trailing arms. Nobody has offered me any technical facts, but the smart admin is checking the database for repeated login failures. Finding none, they would post in your favor. Finding any, they would post in mine. Unable to find, they would not post. So far...no posts.

Am I technically capable of pulling this off? Yes. But knowing how and doing it are the same as you knowing how to shoot a man and Ennis Cosby turning up dead.

I don't think the drdstny account was compromised until Eugene saw opportunity. Me posting a long-ass wish list gives a thief a big chance to buy the things on that list and sell them. I have been imagining hopped-up 914s running around here, but the fact is, who the hell wants contraband on their car? I now think it's WAY more likely this stuff was earmarked to be sold.

<DEVIL'S ADVOCATE MODE ON>
So I ordered the parts and sold them.
</DEVIL>

Why? Why didn't I just buy them? What did I do with the money?

<DEVIL'S ADVOCATE MODE ON>
I bought a plasma cutter. $1,200 worth of parts, $1,500 machine, you do the math.
</DEVIL>

Are you KIDDING ME?

<DEVIL'S ADVOCATE MODE ON>
Actually, that's a total lie. I used the money to buy the black tar heroin I've been shooting up which gives me psychotic renderings of fact and general schizophrenia. Eugene is my alter ego, and his driver's license and mine use the same picture.
</DEVIL>

We'll be at this all week.



I didn't see it that way in context. I'm sorry.



Well, I DO have Euro lenses, but I don't have access to the drdstny account anymore to find out who they were from. I know I paid $20 for them and they are sitting on my bench right now. They were cheap because they are slightly different in color. I knew this in advance of purchasing them, so why would I buy a second set?

<DEVIL'S ADVOCATE MODE ON>
Spares, you idiot.
</DEVIL>



We've ALL been on this pretty much constantly. It has been taxing, to say the least.



Then Craig has forgotten. For one thing, there's this email:


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Message-ID: <044701c6f270$72053280$bd4ebd43@Laughlin>
From: "craig.laughlin" <craig.laughlin@xxx.xxx>
To: "Carl Payne" <Carl_Payne@xxx.xxx>
References: <cb3.fc0885.3266cba9@cs.com> <F7085970-6385-4629-AD40-7C8DC65BCF21@xxx.xxx>
Subject: Re: scam dude
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 21:46:58 -0700
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Carl, Good evening. Thanks for the update and your deligence in working =
to find Eugene.
When looking for a 914, look for a 5 lug car and euro front lenses. If =
you get close enough, look into the clear part of the lense to see if =
there is the lite kit installed.
I e-filed a postal report with the USPS postal inspectors office here in =
Oregon.
Craig=20




Got it. Limited run, jumped on it. Will gladly give it back if asked.



Got them, totally cheap and since this is a daily driver they don't have to be perfect.



Know where to get it, don't need it today, and now that I know I can get new mesh I'll make one anyhow.



I disagree, but this is a small thing.



It was wrong of me to assume. I apologize. Greg was the only person who contacted me, but he didn't directly say who asked him. I just don't feel ANY support and I wrongly lashed out.

<sigh>

It just doesn't make sense. Yeah, my viewpoint is tainted by knowing I'm not at fault, but with all the imagination I can muster I simply can't understand...

I mean, what's next? Does the seller of a set of C2 rims hold the key to convicting me? If someone says they shipped a reflector and got their payment reversed does that mean you REALLY suspect me?

Actually, that's a good point. I had a reflector and a side-shift trans all lined up to buy, both off the WTB list, and I told both of them I was having Paypal troubles and would have to decline. Glenn had the trans, remember? It was in that thread about me wanting to spend $600 on a known-good trans and it got nuts about the definition of "rebuilt."

Full disclosure: I agreed to buy the trans, not knowing my PP account had been limited. When I found out it was, I told Glenn I would have a friend pay him. That friend is Stephanie, my dad's wife, who said she had Paypal. She did not, she has BidPay. I told Glenn those details and regrettably declined the trans.

I don't know, Eric. I've walked the mile in your shoes, and I am just saddened and offended more than I am mad. The more I think about it, the less I think I'll convince you or anyone else. There are just too may possibilities and too many potential reasons for my accounts of events.

<DEVIL'S ADVOCATE MODE ON>
I'm telling the absolute truth. Now what?
</DEVIL>

And I am empathetic to that. I think you've gone a long way to further your cause. Thanks for your time and response.

Weigh in gang. We need to catch a con-man that's feeding off this club and community.

So far it's been:

Craig - Camp914. Your generous host for WCC2006 and all around "prince" of a guy.
Sergio - GT Engine Lid.
Pelican Parts - Effort Thwarted.
Me - Lacky 5-lug, Caliper-Boy and all around dork.

************REWARD***********

1st Prize - You help find'em you get to keep the Elephant loaded 5-Lug "Pro-Arm" trailing arms. $660.00 Value not including the cores and now free shipping.

2nd Prize - A set of steak knives.

3rd Prize - You're all fired. You call yourself amateur detectives? Put that coffee down. Coffee is for detectives. You think I'm fuching with you... See this watch? It cost more than that Hyundai you drove to work today... that's who I am. (shall I go on?)

Just a quick weigh in here. Carl please note that the email that you posted from me, has no relation to headlight parts.
Craig C. Laughlin

I understand that. I think I thought of this as an either-or situation, and it didn't occur to me until this post that the issue is "How does Carl know Eugene bought ONLY the parts mentioned?"

Well, I guess I don't. Much in the same way I don't know that Eugene bought ONLY a set of 5-lug control arms. I've been going on and on about one set of 5-lug arms because that's all Eric said. Much in the same way Eric thinks the laptop is relevant, I believe if you'd been ripped off for more you would have said so. So...I guess in the heat of anger because you didn't say they were taken I took that as license to say they weren't, and I apologize.

I don't know, after a month of fighting this theft and the bigger home security issue, I'm wiped out.

I have to go to work. I might not be able to post again until late tonight unless where I'm going has Internet access.

fixed ...

I have steered clear of participating in this discussion, as I have no dog in this fight. However, since by trade I deal with examining criminal investigations 12 hrs a day, I feel compelled to note one thing for those reading this thread: "inferences based upon omissions" are the runaway leader as the tool that most often leads an investigation to the wrong conclussion. Sometimes, an omission is based on a desire to hide guilt. Far more often, it is simply the result of questioner and questionee having a different set of thoughts kicking around in their head at the time the question was asked. The hidden danger lies in the fact that the one under suspicion is then put in the unenviable position of needing to prove the omission was not motivated by a consciousness of guilt. Put more simply, they must try to prove a negative, which is virtually always impossible to do.

I am not accusing Eric or anybody else of doing anything wrong. Just offering an experienced word of caution. I will say no more unless asked to do so.

I agree. Which is why I sought an answer. I even stated:



Meaning, I don't expect Carl and I to be on the same page and think alike. The laptop isn't the big deal... it just seemed strange "to me".

I'm not even qualified to be a neophyte in this arena. Chris, what's your professional opinion? On or off the thread (if you don't mind). The entire process has unfolded in these threads. This is extremely convoluted at this point. I'd "rather" move on in a productive direction if there is one... I would value your opinion as I'm sure would others.

I want to be clear. At this point I could care less about the money or the control arms. I spoke with Sergio earlier this morning and we share the same feeling that, in this Porsche community, we don't want or need this to happen. Believe me, it's "nice" to say to a customer... "just send me a check."

Therein lies the rub. I have tried to sort through it as it was posted. I have had to re-read several posts to try to make some sense of it all, and in the end I am still very confused about much of it. I think I have a handle on the basic outline now, but I still don't have a real strong feeling one way or the other. There are a couple issues that just smell hinky, and justify your questions. On the other hand, there are several factors that are totally inconsistent with Carl somehow being involved in bad things here.

As an attorney, your start a case evaluation by identifying the "facts beyond change", and build from there. I don't have a good enough feel for many facts here to be able to have that foundation on which I would build my assessment. Sorry.

Guys, I'm done with this. You know you're in a bad place when you can't post anything because you worry how guilty it makes you sound or if it makes you sound innocent enough.

I spent all day wondering what was ordered at Pelican, or AA, or V.A.G. or German Auto Wreckers or anything else with Porsche inventory. I now realize my prediction of additional fraud and the group's running tally are going to collide. Soon.

How much more will the group put up with before they need somebody--ANYbody--to pay for these crimes? The fact is, the ultimate total list of victims--let's just round up to 20 for dramatic effect--could say they feel I'm innocent and honest and helpful through all this--I'm not worried about those 20 victims. I'm worried about that one uninvolved guy that thinks those 20 victims were too soft on me. I worry about the vigilante who has seen enough evidence to convict, and he carries out the sentence.

The previous 2 threads on this issue had talk about breaking legs, friends in Philly and fires and "club meetings at <his> house" and smashing cars and recovering costs in "other" ways...and I've freely given out my every contact number. What was I thinking? We'd be safer if I was wrongly arrested. How much vigilantism do I put up with before I confess to a crime I didn't commit just to keep my little girl safe?

This whole thing was poorly handled, it jeopardizes my family's well-being. I could ask for this thread to be removed, but there will always be one of the lurkers who remembers this saga and brings up my name the next time someone else gets the shaft.

I cannot prove my innocence, I cannot make you believe me, so I'm done trying. Let me know what you want to do. I won't crash the BBQ this Sunday.

The defense rests.

And the reward for the longest post in 914club history goes to... envelope please....
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riiiippppp...
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Carl Payne!
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Ta daaaaa!
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Sheez... too much time on your hands fellas! Sorry I missed all the fun. I really can't piece all this together... something about a laptop, photos of and his wife having sex, some dude named "Eugene" and Craig Laughlin.

Is there a goat or the #4 914 prototype involved at all?

I'm confused!

is there new allegations?


Carl, from my point of view, don't run off and hide. stay ,hell come down to G & R

you seem like a very stand up guy to me. sounds like you could use some club

bonding