Updated 2/15/07
Hi,
I am new to this forum, been deciding to buy or convert my car, I have found out a lot of good info from this great forum and have noticed that all the conversions are built top of the line... (forgive all my misspellings please)

Well, I have found some problems with the cost, so what am I after, preformence or just a better 914 car.
*a little of both*

I choose the better 914 car, building just enough, not overbuilding the car, I think the 914/4 was just fine, but with the decline of the 2.0 heads, it has become a nightmare with the rebuilds, so the 6 cyl is the answer, but how far do I take it. for me the $ counts and I want to limit the spend while still having a fully fun 914.

So, with Volkers help & thrifty mind, we will build ours on available not hard to find parts, I we will build a poormans 914/6 conversion..

Volker thinks that a larger motor is not the answer, it puts too much HP on the stock car components, he believes 140-180 hp is all you need for a good preforming, non race car, that way the existing brakes and trans will do. Too much HP costs..

*updated 2/15/07 Total install price $10,000 so far*

Engine: DONE & RECEIVED
911S 2.4 w/180 HP
block #6129118, magnesium

*Flywheell was easy to find, I reused my clutch and pressure plate.*

*Had to upgrade Tach*

Carbs: DONE & RECEIVED
We will be using Zienith, make and model I need to get..
Volker is altering the choke system and machining the venturi's from a stock 27mm to 30mm

*Accelerator linkage: used stock 914 cable and welded up a bracket mount and made a link connection to carb. bye-passing the rear swing link, cost was $5.00*

Sheet Metal(Tin): DONE & RECEIVED
(missing back piece as per bid)
cost $115.00 from Dr Evil a very nice member....
*Had to cut and paiste the old 914 rear tin to close off opening*

Headers: DONE & RECEIVED
*stock shift rod clearance was cool*

Oil hoses:
*bought oil hose from Porshe and clamped them on.. welded up adapters at engine locations*

Oil Tank: DONE & RECIEVED
*boil out and sealing cost $60.00*
donated by Grantsfo another very nice member, he is sending FREE, cost $0.00, thank you

Front Motor mount: DONE
JOHNMAN has agreed to make me a custom mount for $180.00 plus shipping, another very nice member, posted his template today, will be done in a week... then shipping
*welded up in place great, I added two bolts each to secure before welding*

Relay board reconfiguration:
*Working, posted on end of thread*

this is the start picture of my car, I will be fully documenting all processes as they occure..
*posted updates at thread end*
Click to view attachmentClick to view attachment

a 2.2S engine is 180HP, no?

Sounds like a fun project.

opps, sorry 2.4 180 hp... fixing and thanks for the catch

Welcome to the club!!

All the resources are here to help you get your project done and under budget.

After you gather all the parts, you could very well do the swap in a weekend with a little help.

My "Shall I say...SIX?" thread may be helpful to you.


KT

Mine's complete .... with all the components above .... just having a small engine oil overheating problem. So now, a remote cooler .... after that, who knows ......and as far as doing it in one day by yourself

Why Zeiniths instead of Webers? I'm not a fan of the Z carbs.

Just out of curiousity, why?

Thanks guy's, hope your right on getting the parts & under budget, need to gather them up quickly, Volkers on a mission, hey, I will post a pic of him, a lot of you guys have heard of him and wondered how's he doing. I get a update going on him for ya..

The basic's, he is charging $8,000 for rebuilt motor, labor on install and any modifications that may come up. The parts I am asking for here are on me. I pay for them and provide them to him..

got my credit card or mail a check ta get er done, ..

sheet metal for the motor, I have lost track of the guys name that prefabs that stuff, need help..

Well, as per Volker, webbers are trouble waiting to happen, dependability issue's, he is modifing the zeniths for depenability and cost of future rebuilds and parts, he in opening up the ventouries (**7^^% wish I could spell)
from a stock 30mm to 40 mm, a machine shop task, also something on the choke, drilling them out and altering some how, don't know that part yet.. I will post pic's and what and how he did it later...

All right another cheap six member! Welcome aboard!

I have an original 914-6 sportomatic oil tank that could be cleaned up that I have been saving just for such an occasion if youre interested. I'm always up for helping out a fellow cheap six convert!

It needs to be boiled and sealed but it looks useable its yours for free if you want it.

sent PM with my stats, thank you...

modified orignal post now, no need for info here...

[quote name='SLITS' date='Nov 8 2006, 04:24 PM' post='812195']
[quote name='Cruzing' post='812115' date='Nov 8 2006, 02:48 PM']


Headers: On eBay from same seller as sheetmetal above. Otherwise headers at about $400 a set ..... stock good effin' luck and if you have luck somewhere between $900 - $1300 a set used


Oilsump: Done
hoses:...... aftermarket and Braided stainless

front motor mount:Maddog copy of Rich Johnson mount ... on eBay...$275 - $$350
searching

Ignition wiring harness:make your own and use the /4 relay board
searching


Click to view attachment
[/quote]

Maddog copy & header, could not find on a Ebay search, any more referance's I can use?

thank you.. ya guys rock...

10k falls in the cheap 6 catagory

i thought "cheap sixers" where in the 4000$ range

Brand new 2 ltr heads CNC machined better than NOS

Club member Martin Schneider makes a 914-6 header that many of us use.

http://www.msdsinc.com



KT

I would recommend that you have Volker inspect any carbs before you buy them since many times ones that are for sale are are worn out especially where the throttle shafts seal to the bodies. Tripple barrels, no matter what brand are expensive and repair kits are expensive too. I haven't seen Volker in several years but I have raced against his son in Mexico and he builds very good engines.

so far the cost is 8,150 plus postage COD due, so where can I buy your 6 cyl. for $4,000, love ta make ya a deal..

the cost of the heads that where linked..

Have your very own set of heads featured in the "Hot VWs build up series "Type 4 Torquer"! These heads couple 200 CFM ports with a 2.0 914 chamber and kick serious ass on the dyno and on the street!!

A 200 CFM CNC head with 44X36 valves and 2.0 914 chambers AND RELOCATED PLUGS!

LE Stands for "Leading edge", another development of Hoffman Automotive machine and Raby's Aircooled Technology! These heads are members are the newest generation of proven cylinder heads for the VW/ Porsche Type 4 engine. All "LE" series heads feature full CNC (computer numerically controlled) machining techniques. CNC technology enhances repeatability between ports and chambers and therefore boosts efficiency all while reducing overall costs and allowing more performance! If it sounds like a dream, wake up and realize this is reality brought to you by the team at Aircooled Technology!

Very detailed information (including flow data) concerning the LE 200 cylinder heads can be found by copying and pasting the following URL into your address bar. www.aircooledtechnology.com/le200.htm

Details

Price: $2,058.00

If you have the money, I'd rather have a rebuilt $8K motor than a questionable used $4K motor....usual suspects..eBay, Pelican, craigslist for used /6 engines...

These are healthy carbs he has on hand, that guy is way to picky to put warn out parts in, drives me nuts when I TRY to help him.. thanks for the heads up, I will check it out with him...

I am going to post up some pic's of him and updates, he tells me he beat the hell out of everyone, in those days, true? to funny, the guy knows his shit though,, thanks.. and you guys rock..

sent email to there sales deptmant, I will post up results as they occure..

OOOHHH, I thought he was selling his whole car for $4,000 is he, have not heard back yet, love to find a deal like that, wouldnt you?

there's a 6 conversion in orange guy wants over 6k , but price is negotiable.....

no relation, and you would want to transfer tubs

but i was refering to trekkor and grantsfos cheap 6 club, they spent way less than 10k..............

Ok, you guys are bantering with each other, I new. so I apoligize for misunderstanding.. tooo funny, hhheyyy I just got it, that's a joke right, the tub is the whole car.. like ahhh whats left, a worn out motor,,, you guys sneak up on ya, huh.. tooo funny..

Zeniths are a better carb than pretty much any Webber you can get in the 40mm tune. I am not a big fan of Motor Miester, but they carry the parts for the "Z" carbs. Easy to jet them to 200+hp engines. Z's have an ecelerator pump for each throat, plus a better idle circut. Unless Webbers fell into my lap, I wouldn't trade off my Z's unless I stepped up to PMO's.

[quote name='Cruzing' date='Nov 8 2006, 06:22 PM' post='812285']
[quote name='SLITS' date='Nov 8 2006, 04:24 PM' post='812195']
[quote name='Cruzing' post='812115' date='Nov 8 2006, 02:48 PM']


Headers: On eBay from same seller as sheetmetal above. Otherwise headers at about $400 a set ..... stock good effin' luck and if you have luck somewhere between $900 - $1300 a set used


Oilsump: Done
hoses:...... aftermarket and Braided stainless

front motor mount:Maddog copy of Rich Johnson mount ... on eBay...$275 - $$350
searching

Ignition wiring harness:make your own and use the /4 relay board
searching


Click to view attachment
[/quote]

Maddog copy & header, could not find on a Ebay search, any more referance's I can use?

thank you.. ya guys rock...
[/quote]

On eBay, just tupe in Porsche 914/6 for the headers and aftermarket sheetmetal

Maddog was a "member" here and had listed the mount in the Resources section at one time. I saw one on eBay a couple of weeks ago.

Oh, there is also an engine wiring harness on eBay for the early /6

The rebuild cost of a stock 914 2.0 (and the crappy 2.0 heads) is part of the reason that I converted as well. Although I didn't have the funding to start out with a freshly rebuilt engine, I found a relatively low mile stock Carrera engine for my conversion.

Some of the parts that you seek, I fabricated myself to keep costs down:

Sheet Metal
Engine Mount
Shift Rod Modification
Throttle linkage
Wiring harness (integrated the Motronic DME into the 914 harness)
Built my own front oil cooler shroud

You were lucky enough to get a usable factory 914-6 oil tank on the cheap. I went with a round racing dry-sump tank.

You may have overlooked the clutch/flywheel (but perhaps Volker has you covered).

Refer to my BLOG for some pics....

I wish you the best of luck.

Thanks Johnman & SLITS, I will check it out and posts my results as they occure..
your guys rock...

It looks like JOHNMAN is going to make me a custom front mount that welds into place, it is shown on his blog.. Cool one more down..

Actually I think Grants total conversion was upwards of 9K but that was some paint and body work, 5 lug conversion, etc. His used 2.4L was ~ 2K but I think it has had some teething problems during the year....and now he is planning more weight loss and twin plug for next year.

well it looks like I will be in the same ballpark, without any wheel/brake convertions, but a brand new 2.4s rebuilt motor is a plus also.. the rebuilds can be very exspensive..

just one thing to add

your not going to want 40mm venturi's on anything under a 3liter...
probabaly anything under a 3.2 even.

I'm sure its not actually a 40mm since it sounds like he knows what he is doing. Probably a 34mm is my guess.

Most all carbs for our cars are marketed as the size of the throat of the carb, you need a venturi to help speed up the air cominging in, which changes the size as Brant mentions above. I bet your mechanic is stating that he will mimic the setup of a 40mm Weber carb.

Travis,

I didn't think of this before..
but your right.

I'll bet that the builder wants 40mm carbs..
(Not venturi's)

a 32 or 34mm venturi would probably make a 2.4 feel VERY responsive inside of a 40mm carb.

For the wiring harness do a search here. I posted diagrams of how I mated my /6 to my /4 stuff.

WoW, you guys are good, my mistake again, I heard him wrong, he said stock 27mm, machine it to a new 30mm

amazing.. sorry,, thanks for checking my 8...

I searched and found some diagrams as you mentioned, I am not a electrical genius as you, confused and not sure, please give a dierect link here, those who follow will apreciate it also.. sorry and thank you..cause YOU GUYS ROCK, member status there I be going..

8k for a small engine?

I'll have a $4k freshened 3.0 with Zeniths done end of next week. A stock 901 will live behind a carbed 3.0 for a long time.

The issue with the early engines LOTS AND LOTS of RPM to get them to move. The 3.0 has GRUNT/ Bottom end torque. You can bust around town in 3rd gear all day long instead of constantly zinging a small motor up and shifting all the time.

I call it "drive-ability"

Pics of the 3.0 to come soon!!



B

That is a installed price w/ a 2.4 is totaly rebuilt not refreshened so ya can add a bit more to your price.. I like torgue also, 6 cyl have more than 4 cyl. no matter what the size, that is where I am coming from..
you also need to consider your other upgrades to handle your larger motor that I am not impacted by..
That way my costs savings are there. the 2.4 will lug around in 3rd & 4th without the zing also, just keep a light foot on her..
I also call that driveability.. we clash on our methods.. thats cool..

OK.. for $800 I'll throw new rod bearings and mains in it..LOL

8k is a lot of cha-ching for a small engine that hasnt been made since 1974!!

A used 3.6 with 40k miles on it sells for 8k with late model injection

He is a great sales person!! Ask him how much he wants for the business. I know he had it for sale several times.

NO BS.. have you actually driven a 2.4/3.0/3.2/3.6 car? I dont mean "talked about it" or "saw one once"?

Not trying to bust your ass. We chatted about this at dinner that night. Bottom line: he has an engine that he cant sell and he *found* you. It runs almost 10k to rebuild any of these engines.. so start with a larger one.. that way you have no room to look back and say "should have...."

B

Don't forget an engine core charge add 3-4K to your 4K rebuild cost

brad,
i will gladly pay you $4k for a fresh 3.0 engine and install
when can i drop my car off?
I can have it to you as early as tomorrow

My first porshe was a 1966 911 (w/a S motor) 2.4, loved the way it drove, loved the way it lugged around..

I was at the diner we had in coranodo mex. rest. if you were one of the guys, yeah I met ya.. fun stuff...

Yes it is a 1974 2.4S completly rebuild to his spec's, which are high standards selling it to me for $8,000 out the door installed..
I thought that was hot, I rebuilt my 1966 in 1975 for $6,000 at Dieter's..

I will not look back, cause the larger ones cost more for car alterations to take the more HP they provide, I am satisfied with the small eng. performace and handling..

Yes, he still is selling, talks about it all the time, you should see his massive enventory of used parts he has around, stacks on stacks of all kinda stuff... really is amazing..

We have become close friend, yeah he hit me hard on sales at first, he mellowed out, I helped a lot around the shop, have my welder and tool box there now, I go over and for free do the small stuff once in awhile to help him out, now he is helping back with this project...

I am going to post some pic's of him and shop and his motors he has around soon...

You confused me a bit, at first you said chaching a lot of money for a small motor, then referance how expensive they are to rebuild.. ?

anyway hope to beat ya up in the mountains of San Diego some day with your big motor...

I like this guy.

Reminds me of...me.


KT

Nice to meet ya, but, I do not care how much ya buy for me, I still do not put out on the first date,,,
(kidding) but brought back memories of High School....

I am getting use to the bantering that goes on around here with the "OLD" timers..

Trekkor,

I believe you were just called "Old"

Touchy, touchy, some are always older than others...

ok, here are pic's of the motor with template for front mount...



A 911E, rebuilt w/ all 911S parts and spec's, year unknown... case number 6129118, magnesium...
Click to view attachment

1972T-E 911/61 MFI USA SPORTOMATIC

Original configuration 84/70.4 7.5:1 165 HP @ 6200 RPM

well, know I know, WOW, you guys rock... there is 180 HP in there now...

late upper cylinder air deflector with early uncut cylinder baffles,
interesting..........