Too bad the quote feature doesn't include the small type... I just LMAO.

Best admin smack-down I've seen. Thanks McMark. I was already gonna buy you lunch, but now I owe it to you. Get that axle fixed yet?

pete

Perhaps you can enlighten me? I am all ears...

pete

Pete Stout was proll'y thrilled at the task of wringing out the 914/Subie...what with all of the 997s 996s CGTs Boxster S's thrown at him, this was something fresh
Fact is that the 914 in its basic form will take on just about any powerplant you can fit in there with a torch, hammer and a Bridgeport mill. When done properly (like this Subie) it is still a 914, fun to own and drive.
In the past 30 years I've seen a few 356s with 911 power and T4 power ( I know of a bada$$ outlaw in N.H.). Then I've seen countless 911s with V8s, and one with a rotary Mazda...but 914s get V8s, rotaries, Subies, Buick V6s, 928s, Rabbit VWs, 911s--all motor--or 1 or 2 turbos, and even Maserati biturbo power
The Excellence author that wrote up my black six thought it "Not purist" of my F and R bumperettes and Olds 442 rear wing, on a car with GT flares--but that's my expression on my canvas.
The 914 is the collectable/ restorable Pcar of the 21st century. Bring on more articles, it's a value adder !
Marty

Prodrive P2...


350HPish Subby power, mid engined, All Wheel drive, Not going to be built....

Video...


I think they coppied Keiths car personally...

BJH

1) So, Pat, in about 1992 (by your 15-year estimate), how, exactly, did Excellence lose "site" of its purpose? And, yes, I'd like to know specific examples.

2) Can you explain what "publishing whores" means, or are you just calling names?

Hmmn... what could "whores" mean? Do you know any of the people here at Excellence, past of present? Do you know that we've never taken tobacco money? Or alcohol advertising? Or free products in exchange for editorial? How about no stories (or even kind words) just for advertising? Or how about covering innovative companies who DON'T advertise? How about repeated criticism of Porsche's current (and past) products?

We're certainly not perfect (far from it, in fact), but I'll put Excellence and the rest of Ross Periodicals (less one mag, perhaps) up against any published periodical this side of CR. Especially when it comes to car-related media.

Criticize all you want -- but be sure to back it up with an intelligent analysis. Do not, however, call names. It goes a few steps past impolite....

And what an expression. Can you say FLAT FAN? Or how about BAD ASS?

Marty, if ever possible, I'd sure like to go for a ride. Or even just hear it start up. And sorry, Pat and Har914 (whatever your name it) I would much rather hear this hot rod fire up than any factory 914-4... it's something new, something well executed, something unexpected, and (wait for it) something interesting.

And I like new, well-executed, unexpected, and interesting. Expect all of them to appear in Excellence for as long as I am here.

pete

Actually spent most of my money this past year on the last of my wife's medical bills. She is cancer free 4 years this week!

After you run people's advertisments in your magazine, don't they leave a little something for you on the figurative nightstand? Don't they!! WHORE!

Don't worry, we knew it wouldn't be much longer before excellence succumbed to the mighty and power 914 Conversions Lobbying Group. You have no blame, resistance was futile.

And make no mistake, excellence is but the first domino to fall. excellence first, then the world. 914 Conversion World Domination! We're not gonna stop until even Panorama has fallen!

That isn't right...

I just took a look at the post count for the concours Originality section, and it's a bit over 3400. Compared to the general Garage section, which is at (oh no, almost EVIL!) 666,654. If I were a publisher I'd look at those numbers and think maybe Porsche 914 interest was a bit broader than just the concours market. Do you think?

Congratulations, the only positive thing to come out of this thread.

including all the positive feedback on a wonderful car and a well written and presented article.

i say ( regardless of powerplant ) ride it like you have been incarcerated for life and after 20 years in the slammer you finally get a sheep for companionship : )

That's what you call an unethical emotional appeal, and a pretty mean way to come back at SirAndy's jest. But maybe that's not what you meant to do.

It does, however, raise an issue far more important than anything being discussed here, and I am VERY glad your wife is cancer free.

And that your priorities with money are spot on.

pete

Man, it would sure be dull if we all had the same opinion.

I just don't understand why folks feel insulted if their opinion isn't shared by all. Isn't adoration of a quirky car enough? Works for me.

OK guys this thing has gotten out of hand, everybody take a deeep breath

WRX914, hars914 and myself in the start of this thread never attack you or your car.

If you re- read the comments, they were about our opinion of the selection of a non porsche parts based drivetrain in a 914 as a feature article in EXCELLENCE.

I even stated it looks like a nice car from the pics, and we are not purist like so many of you guys stated but don't like to see a car stray from its German roots.

Like hars914 I have been a supporter of EXCELLENCE and Pete from the beginning and like hars914will never cancell my script and will continue to support EXCELLENCE, but right wrong or indifferent we are entitled to our views.

WRX914 you attacked George/AA for his opinion of the article again not your car.You feel because you gave him kudos in the article that he can't disagree with the magazine. Then you bash him here because doesn't agree with your drivetrain conversion. Give me a break!

People are indeed entitled to their opinions. In fact, I welcome them -- as differing views are what make life interesting -- and often teach us something.

But some went way over the line of basic civility. WAY over.

Surprisingly, my pulse rate has yet to rise through all this. But some of the comments here are pushing my patience thin.

OMG, Pete you show 666 posts! Quick, post something, anything

Now THERE is a thinking man's analysis.

You can't do it to serve the majority alone (General Motors, anyone?), but you can't afford to ignore these numbers, either.

Oh, and good thing I'm at 667 posts now, because I am getting closer to 914 -- where it all has to stop.

Yeah a subaru to compete with lotus would be fucking nuts!!! As far as I'm concerned a subaru motor is a porsche motor. Same design but cheaper and makes more power. But still you can't beat the sound and looks off velocity stack sticking out of a porsche 6

I keep reading about the RSR motor in Excelence and has me wondering why I have never heard word one on this board? That would be my motor of choice is I ever wanted to build a new motor.

I’m fortunate enough to own an ’88 turbo look cab as well as my 73 914 2.0. Guess which one I tinker with and like to drive more? Most of my friends can’t understand why I spend time on or even keep the 914, but at the end of the day, even though the 911 is beautiful, my heart lies with the 914. Nothing is more fun to drive.

As for the article, I like reading Excellence, and especially like it when I find any reference to 914s in it, no matter the flavor. Nice work Excellence, still waiting for the 914 on the cover…

Btw, Pete, how ‘bout getting Excellence to make back-issues on-line orderable? I tried to get part 1 of the 914 restoration piece, but have to use snailmail to do it.

I've been trying to get them to get e-commerce going for years now, but we are an old-school company in many ways. It took *forever* to get a web presence, but it's finally here and the classifieds section -- if handled correctly -- will probably drive us to start up e-commerce.

Can't wait for the day.

But did you know you can call and order them, too? (415) 382-0580

Sorry for the trouble!

Oh, and 914s have made the cover on a number of occasions, just never as the main image. It might have happened in the old days, but the lessons we've learned on the newsstand make it tough to put old cars or race cars on there unless there is something REALLY unusual or an image we think will sell magazines. It's not a hierarchical thing, it's just a philosophy that uses the cover as a sales tool. And it's our most important (newsstand) sales tool.

Cheers!

This is my first post on the forum, and I am a little suprised. What is the complaint, putting a Subaru motor into a 914 or writting about it in a "purist' mag?

I signed up because as a long time Suby driver, I have the hots for my favorite engine motivating a low weight mid engine rear drive sport car. Maybe there is some how to do it articles on this site, I thought. But I don't feel the love, you know what I mean?

Not being a quitter, I will continue researching with a goal in mind. Maybe some of you folks will like a ride in a well turned out 914 using a 400 ftlb torque Subby EJ25 turbo. I think I will.

Hope to know you all better.

Mike McBride

Dont get discouraged. There is a large percentage of us forum members who really like the Suby swap and there is a fairly active community making these engine swaps. I have seen some very clean Subaru powered 914's in California that almost look like they came with the subi motor from the factory. There are only a few people who truely dont think this swap is worthy of a 914 and their opinions are only as valid as yours.

The Subaru motor is very well suited to the dynamics of a 914. I have watched a nicely tuned Subaru powered 914 compete in AX and it had similar power of a six cyclinder but with lightness that you see with a 4 cylinder application. Also nothing cooler than a 914 passing by with BOV popping away!

Thank you for your reply and candor. While I could care less if anyone likes the car or not, on the other hand I do not appreciate a third person telling me and this board who should be getting the credit for MY build. I am sure a guy like Chip Foose would have taken exception to hars914's statement if it were directed at him. Even though Chip does not build the entire car from the ground up, it still has his name on it and has the bad-ass conotation attached to it and he gets the credit that he is due. Yes, you are entitled to your opinion, but we are a sort of family here; while it is ok to bicker back and forth, it is not acceptable to step over the line of normal conduct of respect for your fellow man least to say a fellow 914 enthusiast of all types bone stock or completely converted. Last night as I was telling my wife of all of this insanity, it kinda hit me... Why the hell is this even happening? Jesus, it is just a damn article about one guys car. After reading the article once again, nowhere in the article does it say " Everyone needs to do a Suby conversion or Excellence and it's staff will not recognize you owning a "Porsche"". To be perfectly honest with you, I think it is bitchin that it is a "Porsche" chassis, but let me ask you a question... Do you own your 914 because it is a Porsche, or because it is what it is which is a absolutley fun car to drive and own? I bought it because of what it can do, not because what is says on the engine deck-lid.
Additionally, what do you care what I say to George? George is a man and if he took exception to what I said, then HE should be the one to call me out on the mat not you. I have no problems with George as a man, but I do as a business man. If you re-read my reply to George it says "I am dissapointed". Stating that you are dissapointed in no way is attacking George but like they say... The trueth hurts. I would have thought that inlight of all of the references to his business that he would have played nicely and if he had negative comments that he kept them to himself again INLIGHT OF ALL OF THE REFERENCES TO AUTOMOBILE ATLANTA that I DID NOT HAVE TO DO. But I did for him and his company and his thanks is bashing the editor for putting my car instead of one of his. This would be the equivilant to a racer saying his/her sponsor is a piece of shit... Not a good business plan if you know what I mean. Also if you would take some time and research "Automobile Atlanta" in the archives you will find on more than one occasion me DEFENDING Automobile Atlanta in a forum that is geared up for AA bashing... All I can say is NEVER AGAIN GEORGE. You have received my last dollar. I will gladly spend two to three times as much at your competiton to get the respect from a vendor whom I spend my hard earned cash. And lastly, I did not stray from the German roots as the engine in my car is derived from Porsche design that today happens to have a Subaru name on it... Kinda like Porsche using the VW type 4 engine and you believing it is a Porsche 4 cyl instead of what it really is which is a VW. The irony!!!


I got an idea... If you can't find something either constructive or nice to say

Then Chata...

Chata Fuck Up

Respectfully yours,

Keith

P.S. Many heated replys will follow this immediately

Don't worry about it Mike, happens in every family.

Welcome to the insanity...and do a search for subie's, lots of good stuff.

All this car talk is just that: talk. At the end of the day, that is what is really important. My mom has been cancer free now for about ten years. God bless to you and yours!!!

I'd say at this point everybody knows everybody else's opinion, so that "chata" is reasonably good advice. Enough already, everybody get back to doing what they like to do and we meet here to talk about where those things overlap and are the same, not where they're different. Deal?

Wifey and I both had a scare with cancer this year and thankfully we are both in the clear, sure puts things in perspective. Our thoughts and prayers are extended to everyone's families who are fighting this horrible condition.

Wow! I take a day off from work for a flu bug, get up around noon, grab the EXCELLENCE I got in the mail a few days ago and what do I see? A fuchin' great article in a fuchin' great mag on my car's "older brother"! I log in to see if there are any comments about the article and about 7 pages later realize its all been said. Its all about "whatever floats your boat". I got what I wanted - a fast, light, great handling, mid-engined, lower maintenance, better fuel mileage go machine with classic lines. I'm sure 914AROO won't appreciate like a 914/6 but I didn't do the dirty deed because I wanted something that appreciated, just something that I appreciate.
Very nice Keith, you deseve a lot of kudos; I didn't know you were so instrumental in the mating of the Suby engine to our favorite car. Pete - well done to you and Zachary; I've always been a big fan of your writing and have subscribed to EXCELLENCE for many years and will definitely continue to do so. I think any coverage of a 914 in ANY form is good for our community. If you're ever in San Jose drop by and check out my take on the Suby/914 combo; its the third one done by Renegade. Its not quite the same level as Keith's but it does okay for itself and its a blast to drive (and thats what its all about, right?).

P.S. I shudder to admit it, but the "T" on my car came from a 911T logo - oh the blasphemy of it!

Later,
Click to view attachment

Actually, the 356 and 912 still count. Porsche designed the 356 in it's entirety. 912s use a Type 4 engine which porsche contributed heavily to the design.

IIRC, wasn't Porsche the same guy who designed the T1 engine as well? And didn't Porsche contribute heavily to the development of VW back in the 1940s or 50s?

lets just close this thread...

Actually, the 912 uses a 356 engine (other than the very small production '76 912e, which used a type 4).

Did porshe really contribute heavily (directly/specifically) to the design of the Type 4? What's the details/history on that, that would be interesting.

I'm no historian, so don't take my words for fact.

912 comment, I was thinking of the 912e. Forgot to mention that it's predecessors used the 356 engine.

Judging from the post count and views, it's turned into quite a soap opera.

The funny thing is, those who started stirring the pot have gone silent. Now, why is that? And, does closing the thread encourage such behavior in the future? After all, one of the few rules we have has been flagrantly broken:

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=65705

"Don't call anyone names. Treat other members like your mother taught you - If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all."



If we're gonna close it, why not delete it so Pat et al fails to get away with throwing rocks without having to answer for it?

And, hey, I am still waiting for that proper definition of a "real Porsche"

(cue sound of crickets)

Yup, in 1933, Adolf Hitler met with Ferdinand Porsche to discuss Hitler's idea of a volkswagen. Hitler proposed a people's car that could carry 5 people, cruise up to 62mph, return 33mpg, and cost only 1000 Reich Marks. This was an opportunity for Porsche to push his idea of a small car foward, as was it to help Hitler get a real people's car for the citizens of Germany.

Initially, Porsche designated this design the Type 60, but it was soon changed to the V1 (experimental 1). Hitler also proposed to have a convertible version produced: it was designated V2. Porsche was not able to make the deadline to finish the first two prototypes, as there was not enough time to physically design the cars and to built them. In any case, they were completed and driving by 1935. Soon, the V1 design was updated, and three cars were produced. This new design was the VW3. These cars were put through rigorous testing in 1936.

These cars looked very similar to the KdF Wagen, that was to appear later. Eventually, the VW3s had metal floors, swing axle rear transmissions, Porsche's front independed suspensions, and backbone floorpans. Several engines were tested, and eventually a flat four cylinder aircooled four stroke engine was chosen. Surprisingly, the engine that was chosen was cheaper and more reliable than some of the four cylinder two stroke engines that were tested. This 22.5 hp four cylinder "boxer" engine was roughly the same as the engines that would later be incorporated into Volkswagen Beetles that are still produced today.

Why would you want to close this thread?? Too controversial? I think its a bunch of healthy discussion; everyone is entitled to their opinion as long as its kept civil.

From a guy that owns a Porsche hat...

Keith, Pete,

Nice car and nice article!

Thanks to you both.

Jeff

And drives a pickup truck, don't forget....

Seriously, I am VERY excited to read this definition.

After all, I've only published 600+ pages of magazine articles on Porsches, edited over 5,000-10,000 pages of articles about Porsche and Porsches, poured over Porsche-specific info for at least 40 hours a week for ten years now, driven hundreds (if not more) of Porsches, and have had the privilege of meeting and talking with some incredible people close to Porsche and many wonderful people who designed/raced/made/restored/modified Porsches.

So I'd like to think I've learned *something* about Porsche and Porsches over the years. Yet for all that, I'm not sure I could give you a definition of what a "real" Porsche is. I've worked it out for myself (kind of a "If Porsche called it a Porsche/I am not going to obsess over this"), but it's nothing I'd feel comfortable with setting in stone.

But I am always amazed at how much more people here and in many other places really do know about the Porsche story than I do. And by some of their perspectives. Bottom line: none of us know it all when it comes to Porsche. Not Karl Ludvigsen, not Bruce Anderson, not me, not you. No, we all have a piece of the puzzle and I still learn a lot from others.

So I am very curious if my man can give me a good definition that holds water. Maybe he can. After all, I once heard a definition of "love" that I immediately took to and memorized, and I think that should be a little tougher to define than "a real Porsche..."

So, yes hars914, I am calling you to the mat! Whereyat?

And still waiting to hear from Pat, too...

No one who posted a disapointment in the Excellence article selection posted anything negative about your car, so stop crying.


WRX914 don't flatter yourself, you are are no Chip Foose

If you paid attention to details you would have notice that you backpad interior light is missing, your driver seat has a visable tear on the edge of the side bolster and just primer on the gas tank.

Chip Foose would have never let one of his cars be photographed like that!

Chata Fuck UP

P.S. Pete I haven't gone silent I voice our opinion, I don't need to beat a
dead horse.

No worries, I don't really want to beat a dead horse, either.

BUT I am tired of people who take cheap shots and then disappear when asked to back them up. For me, these include hars 914, Pat Garvey, and (to a far lesser extent) Grant. Frankly, I'd just like to see things put right. "Publishing whores" and the rest are just outta line.

All the other criticism is/was fair game and I *totally* respect those opinions against this article and my decision to run it and am not mad at those who voiced fairly written, well thought out criticisms. Which were most of those who did.

I am hoping if I reply I will receive my copy of EXCELLENCE sooner...even though I have personally seen and driven with/against both the silver and blue conversions I can't wait to see the article! Anyone that likes the thought ogf a modern ultimate 914 "concept car" need look no further than Keiths ride. Actuially, the Neo914 is better in some respects, and when it is eventually tearing up the pavement in the Bay Area there will have to be a show down

I'm curious what everybody thought of the Oregon 911RS clone that was int he last issue. It was a copy of something it wasn't, another wolf in sheeps clothing. All Porsche, so no worries? I though it was pretty sweet - but I'm an open minded left-coast liberal that wants a 914 EV

Click to view attachmentPete, thx for the props on the black six biturbo...I'll send you a soundclip thru the Sepulveda tunnel for Xmas I took Greg Brown of EuropeanCar thru it many moons ago--he still has white knuckles
Here's the RSR engine in 9146 for all of you Stack groupies...
Marty

Pa-pow! Can't speak for the purists, but that sure gets MY motor running!

I really do need to get down to LA more often...

pete

Damn, I want one.

We've implemented a new feature: self-closing threads. All you have to do to take advantage of this new feature is stop opening the threads that you don't like. EASY!

That is SMOKIN"

Another one I would love to see done is the 2.4 4cylinder 911 moltor that is in Gay Emory's 356 Outlaw, with just a couple of mods like Fuel Injection and a Turbo.

For me that would be the Ultimate 6 conversion

Pete,
I am one who does not take cheap shots and run away. It was a personal opinion
about the magazine which you most likely get everyday. People that know me
know I am not like that. I do not take cheap shots. This thread got out of hand. I want to apologize to Wrx for any nasty comments to him personally. Lets just end this and move on.
I guess that is what I get for posting an opinion on a magazine that I cherish
every month. Wrx good luck with your car and good health to you and yours.