the engine would turn (by hand) prior to the install. initially it turned fine when trying to start it. never did light off. made a wierd noise or 2, now, it won't turn at all. full charge on bat. starter just clicks. plugs out, in gear, pass side tire chocked, i can not turn the engine with the dr side tire at all. like it's hitting something. i have 0 answers or ideas. just about at the end and ready to take a huge loss on everything. debating whether to pull the engine, and just roll the car out and tarp it. words can not express....

k

You could have dropped a valve seat, that happened on my 2.0L once.

Happened when it was hot though, but still possible.

yeah i have had a valve pop off and get lodged in the cylinder/piston area...

then it finally stopped, i think something in the oil pump locked the engine up tho, due to mateal particles coming from the huge hole in the piston

i have not started this engine. there was no metal in the sump when i removed it to change the oil.

k

Will the engine turn backwards from the point of lockup?

ill go check.

no i can't. tried to turn it with the dr side tire. trans i used was known to be good when installed. i did do a clutch package. is there something in the array that could cause this.

sounds like something is jammed in the flywheel/ clutch area...
ALWAYS make it a point to turn the engine after mating it to the gearbox!!! BEFORE install!

puttin' on the coveralls and getting started. i'll get some pictures when i separate the 2. the engine would turn over. then try it again, thunk, and quit turning.

k

Just drop the transaxle off and see if you can turn the motor then.

Report back in an hour. Otherwise you are SLOW!!!!!!!!!!!

I'd do a quick check on the starter to see if it's jammed in the flywheel teeth.

by check, you mean just remove the starter first?

k

yes

Yes pull the starter and inspect the teeth on the starter and the F/W.

Also test the starter on the ground and make sure the motor as well as

the solenoid works.

starter out. no sign of hammering on the starter gear. the flywheel edge seems WAY close to the upper edge of the bell housing area. as seen thru the hole the starter left behind. no camera right now. how much clearence should there be from the fw edge to the bell housing? i'm not going to fight this with the engine in. also, the bolts that secure what haynes refers to as the "clutch assembly' sit proud of the flywheel. is that correct? or should they sit recessed into flywheel?

k

btw. the engine does rotate with the starter removed.

HA! while rotating the engine i noted some orange spray paint on the diaphram housing. i seem to remember a certain engine coming to me with the same spray paint on the same part. the fw gear on that engine was all torn to hell. could it be the curse of....?

k

Now, the fact that it does rotate is REALLY GOOD NEWS

I would hope that the flywheel is not the larger diameter one (225 mm instead of 215 mm).

I'll try to get you a pic of a flywheel with clutch installed.

there is a tight .018" distance from the outside radius of the fw (teeth) to the bell housing. i measured this thru the hole for the starter.

k

You are going to have to at least pull the trans off of the engine to find out why the flywheel or pressure plate are sticking out so far.

If it was me, I'd just pull the whole thing and work on it outside the car. But that's just me.



Good luck to you.

I hope it's something easy.

th whole package is coming out john.

is the fw being this close to the bell housing on the trans the standard? if it's the diaphram unit is what's wrong and the fw is right i'd rather not have to pop the fw off.

k

I can't see anything bad there.

Looks right to me also. Did you test the starter?

check this one out.....

did you put a NEW oil pump in this motor?

if you did... and didnt machine the tang.... the gears could be eating into the front cover....

but that would be felt without the trans tho.....

whats the end play on the motor?

215 vs 210? disc that came out is identical (no #s) to this and the comparo picts. flywheel has been turned rusty is from long term resting in the garage while installed. can i dress it down with a fine scotch-brite. note the fingers. i think dave hunt came over and the end play was ok. don't remember the #s, that was sometime ago. time to heat up the visa.

k

Please tell me you didn't use this pressure plate!!

Kevin ..... I thought maybe you changed the flywheel. With the bigger flywheel, the tranny shouldn't fit.

I agree with Demick ........ those fingers look uneven indicating a weak spot in the pressure plate ..... or it could be the angle of the photo.

Nope, I think your right Ron. Looks bad to me also.

So does the engine turn freely with the trans off?

that fw is not the on that came with the engine. i don't think it came with one. this engine deal happened quite sometime ago and i don't have any issue with the sale. i think the starter prob is a blessing at this point. i was crazy sick with the grave's desease (if you're not afflicted, you have NO idea. not an excuse mind you) when i bolted this thing together. there are about 5 months of my life where i have no speciifc memories of certain events. so i'll step back, recheck the end play. i honestly don't know if i even checked the ep prior. all i know is there is no fore aft movement at all when i push/pull on the fw.

k

what about a pic of the starter?

i put this starter in during the wcc04' in the side yard at high perf house. it's never given me a lick of trouble.

k

Have you found any shiny spots where it was rubbing? I don't see anything in your pictures.can you compare your old flywheel (that didn't cause you any trouble) with this new flywheel?

Something just doesn't seem right. Does the input shaft of your trans turn freely?

i'm being a bit unclear. so i'll back track a bit. the pictured fw is not the one that was on the engine i took out of the car. the one pictured is one i got from a member that had been machined. the trans input shaft spins
freely without any bind or glitches. more pictures coming

I know that I sound like a broken record but have you tested the starter?

See that the solenoid kicks out and that the starter motor spins. I would start there

and if you feel strongly about the end play, check it,it's not that big a deal.

Starter gear is skipping against the top of the FW teeth. Look at the top of the FW teeth.

Looks like starter has an issue. The starter gear is getting stuck in the FW before it gets totally engaged. Then stays stuck to the FW because of improper mesh. (distinct possibilty)

Any body live close to you with a spare "KNOWN GOOD" starter you can try?

That would answer the starter question once and for all.

Thats what I see so far. Couldn't hurt to try.

Clayton

i don't know anyone with a loose, known good starter clayton. even w/a defective starter, i don't understand how it could cause the engine to not rotate, when the starter is not energized. dave hunt heard the engine do it's 'thunk'. a conundrum. thanks for the input everybody. the engine drop was sure fast and easy. practice, practice, practice...

k

I don't like the look of the flywheel to crank bolts. Looks like something is rubbing there, and that must not happen. There should be a tiny amount of endplay on the flywheel. I forget the specs, but it is very important, as is the number of shims required. I also use a new O-ring, felt washer, pilot bearing, lock washer, and flywheel bolts when I put a flywheel on an engine. A loose flywheel cost me large one time. I was told to Loctite those new bolts in place by the head mechanic at Stoddard Imported Cars.

I also use a new plastic cup in the throw-out arm, and new bushes on the T-O bearing. I know, lots of little details, but it works for me. Most of those parts are cheap, and tend to be worn out.

new pivot bushing, clip, t.o. bearing were installed. i don't understand how any of those could contribute to the 'thunk'/no turn over situation. the engine initially spun fine. then there was the mallory debacle. fixed that. spark, fuel, air. the engine was trying to start...THUNK. end of go, beginning of 'why'.

k

Kevin, if you bring those rims up, I'll let you borrow a NEW high torque starter.

i'll push the 914 to marysville and we'll stick it in. if you go to the post office, get one of the free priority mail flat rate boxes and mail the starter to me, i'll pay for postage both ways and give you one of the wheels for nothing. with the price of fuel, time and the stupid traffic. it would be cheaper in the long run. where did you buy the starter and how much was it?

k

When the solenoid kicks out, if the gear does not mesh right with the ring gear or

if the solenoid is goofed up it can stick in the outward position and put the engine in a bind.

But I am not going to ask you if you TESTED the starter again. (did you?)

Test the starter while out of the car.

Other things that can make the starter not turn are low or partially discharged battery and ground issues.

Once you rule out the starter and the battery you can assume it is your engine or flywheel.

(I know that still doesn't explain not being able to turn the wheels, but this leads me to believe that it isn't your starter too.)

i took this before the old engine pull. i'll have to try the battry charger to energize the starter. red charger lead to the to the spade term for the yellow wire and the black chargr wire to nut with the wire that secures the wire that goes to the starter body. all it does is hum. are these the correct test points for the starter out of the car?

weird. the old setup workd just fine when i put the car away for its winters sleep. how the starter could go bad just sitting is beyond me. but then, quite a few things are.

k

I would put the black wire from the charger to the frame where it bolts in. Put the red wire on the big red wire. Short from the yellow to the red to energize the starter. Not sure about the charger being big enough. Jumper cables from a good battery is a better power source.

got off the phone w/dan root. he's going to mail me a NEW starter (high torque) for test purposes when the engine goes back in.

k

Cool! I hope you figure this out.

Don't let that High Torque starter scare you first time, they make quite a unique high pitch noise. And since you are already listening for odd noises, you can rule that one out...

Ferg

i've heard dave hunt's h.t. starter in action. as long as it has the 'sound' other than the "clunk", i figure i'll be on the path to being a happier 914 owner. if there is such a thing. nice picture mike.

k