Thanks. I don't see the point in this clogging up the board anymore though... The problem is that everything here is subjective and speculative, and doesn't really solve anything. Outside of the board though, these things never tend to just go away ...

When I entered the country it was in Miami and I wasn't back in CA until almost 2 months later after spending time in FL, NY, and Egypt; I didn't end up back in CA until towards the end of the month, and filed the report on December 26th, the Monday after Christmas.

They should've gone after the guy then and there. That's where the biggest mistake was made - Oakland PD never checked the VIN or the plates against the DMV database - if they had I would've marched over with the fuzz in tow and picked up the car then and there. They're supposed to take stolen vehicle reports only from the registered owner, but in my case they saw I had a copy of the registration in hand and took that instead of actually checking.

Smokey

Sorry, I don't know your real name or I would address you by that. You have to realize that no matter what an officer told you it does not mean jack. They are hired to enforce the law as they understand it. However, the lawyers and judges are the ones that are to interperate the law. Officers can have opinions just like you and I as to who should get what, but it is up to the lawyers and judges to decide what is legally true. This whole issue is a very hard one to figure, but I would be willing to bet that, given all information, a judge would look at this and say that Aaron is the true owner. Just my opinion though. I don't believe anyone here blames you for the misfortune that has occured to Aaron, but we do ask that you work WITH him as to get this all figured out.

Ed Holley (Aka Smokey)
No matter what excuses or reasoning you wish to use, there is still a lack of due process. That lack of due process constitutes theft - Your actions and unwillingness to provide any "documentation" that you have with the DMV, continues the lack of due process - and that it still appears that you are in possesion of a stolen vehicle, with a title that is not in your name, that you are attempting to sell -

As some others have stated here this sounds very similar to another situation we saw unfold on this board a few years ago - Whether you are right or wrong will not be determined by me, but the sale and theft of this car were well documented prior to your apparent possession and attempt to sell the vehicle -

Aaron has provided significant documentation to support his story -
You have provided none -

Andy has told me there were mistakes made and he's trying to get documents that show where and when. It's his opinion that since the car has been through a lot of different owners and that I probably won't be able to get it back.

This car had a lot of owners in between when it was reported stolen and when it was recovered and delivered to the original owner as well, 37 years later.

The thing is, I'm not really interested in opinions. Andy can speculate, but what I'm asking him to do is his job. If I end up with a decision from a judge, then that's great. Until then, I'll do whatever the process needs me to.

So I think your in denial. The car was towed (NOT STOLEN) from the streets of Oakland with the non conforming plates (Illegal) which you thought "looked good". While you were in Mongolia or France or Chile or whereever you were, you lacked the sense of placing your car in a secure place. If you had put the correct plates on it or took it off the street than your problem might not have existed in the first place. But you did not. You expected the Tax payers of Oakland to store your car on public streets with an out of state plate that was registered to someone else. No one should suffer the foolishness of others. Do you honestly believe a judge would concur with you?

I've read this thread from the begining and the facts are simple. The owner of this car never gave up ownership of the car. It was reported stolen when he knew it was stolen. He never signed off of the ownership by either transfering ownership to a insurance company visa settlement or by abandonment. The fact that it was re-titled several times after it was stolen has no bearing on who's name is on a title to it now. It is the property of the original owner until such time as he surenders ownership.

I just hope "Smokey" has the opinion from the CHP officer in writing. If I remember from the last stolen 914 thread, possesion of a stolen 914 is good for 6 months in jail with bail set at $1,000,000

Smokey - the car was not towed. We've been over this.

My first assumption was that it had been towed, but that was ruled out after checking Oakland PD tow records, making phone calls to local tow yards, and actually visiting the Oakland tow yards and asking questions. I spent several days doing this and only after doing that did I file a stolen vehicle report.

The car was stolen from me: this is not up for debate. Perhaps it was stolen and sold by my friend, perhaps it was stolen my some 3rd party, perhaps Salayfo Smith himself stole it and then had the nerve to go and register it himself thinking he could sell it really quick. I don't know. What I do know is that it was stolen, and who it was stolen by doesn't really have any bearing on our current interaction.

ammason you have pm.

Judging by your illogical thinking, it looks like you believe that Aaron 'deserved' to have the car stolen/towed/whatever, which is irrelevant. Unless you can prove that Aaron was involved in the disappearance and somehow profitted from it, it really doesn't matter does it? I think you're pissed because you bought a stolen car, either knowingly or unknowingly, and the people here on this board called you on it. Will Aaron get his car back? I don't really think you'll have any bearing on that unless you do the right thing and hand it over. Like he said, the authorities will ulimately decide. Just don't piss and moan if the dime comes down on you a little for being involved.

I'd love to see you guys go to mediation on this one. I dont think Aarons case is very solid. Clearly both sides of this dispute smell fishy to me. I think any mediator worth their salt would find some contributory negligence from the original owner in this case.

I don't know about that. If I were the mediator I think I would have to side with Aaron. Yes, the person he left his car with wasn't responsibe enough to keep a watchful eye on the car, but is that really Aaron's fault the he put his trust into a guy that didn't care? I don't think so. Where was Aaron's negligence? The fact he was traveling is not a reason to say he was negligent at all. He set up provisions for his possesions, but they unfortunately were with someone who didn't pay any attention. Is that his fault?

How on earth are you negligent if someone steals your car? Would you feel the same way if it were YOUR car?

If my car was stolen and I knew who had it and where it was located I would show up with all my documents and go to the police and have the car impounded.
In this modern age there is no need to wait weeks for paper work etc.If someone wants a notorized copy rather than a faxed or emailed copy you send it next day air delivery.
I would suspect you could get someone to handle the reporting and paper work for less than the $600.00 flight .(There are a lot of people on this site in Ca)
Good luck in your recovery........Just my 2 cents

That may not be too wise as there are many complications that need to be worked out in this situation. I think Aaron is searching out his options very well at the moment.

Are you 100% sure somone stole the car originally? Its never been clear to me it was actually stolen. Reporting a car stolen and it actually being stolen are two different circumstances.

Negligence portion would be leaving car on Oakland public streets with Oregon plates with no clear custody of the vehicle while planning to be out of the country for months. I'd love to hear the "freinds" side of the story.

I suspect a lot is being left out of these posts on both sides. Smokey needed some people to take his side so I'm arguing his point here.

I'd love to see any competent judge's face when presented with what we have seen here. I suspect both parties would get that irritated look over the top of his or her glasses. I have been through enough mediation sessions to know niether party has presented a rock solid case.

....OK just so I piss off everyone. Who in the hell is this Smokey guy anyway? Does he even have current title? Who is his mysterious partner?

kaiser sousee.

k

thank u grant. The mystery man dose not want to be slammed . on a site he likes. He is a teener..

Hey Grant

He has already stated a few times that it was not left on the street. I must agree that it would be interesting to hear the friends story as he was the one around when it was stolen.

Nor should you be slammed. Like I have said before, you are both in a chitty situation. You didn't do anything knowing that the car had any cloud on it. Too bad you can't buy title insurance when you buy a car like when purchasing a home or real property.

He already said it was parked on the street - his "custodian" for the car left it on the street. Its unclear that it was ever not on the street. Was he paying his freind rent for a space to store the car off public streets? Any reciepts?

The whole story just breaks down. It did before in original posts and still does now.

I don't know about you, but I have many friends that if I were going away for a time they would watch all my stuff for free. Not only that, but they would be insulted if I tried to pay rent. Now some of those friends I would trust more than others, and some I would rather die before I trusted my cars to them. Just because they are a friend does not make them responsible At any rate, It would be interesting to hear what this frind has to say about it all. This whole situation sucks for both parties, butI strongly believe that the car still rightly belongs to Aaron as he never released his interest in the property.

The story with my friend goes like this:

When I was planning my trip, I was supposed to be gone a month. I left the car in the care of my friend, and a month later, when I found out about the sailing gig, the friend said he'd be happy to continue to take care of the car. About 2 months later he moved a few blocks down the street, and decided that he didn't want to drive the car much because it had developed an oil leak. What 914 doesn't? The place he moved to was a loft building that didn't have parking for his motorcycle, his truck, and my car, so he left it parked where it had been, informed his neighbors, and made sure to keep checking on it. Then one day it was gone, and seeing as there was street cleaning, he figured it's been towed. I got back, we went to look in the tow yards, and you guys know the rest of the story.

I never paid rent for my friend to look after the car - that just never came up. Why would money have to go between friends? I do a lot of favors for people, and being the kind of person who lets a friend drive my Porsche while I'm away is probably the reason why a few months later a different friend flew me to Egypt via Amsterdam and paid for all our expenses. I could've just stored the car at my dad's winery, but instead I chose to pay for the insurance so my friend could enjoy my car while I wasn't able to.

If trusting my friend to look after my car was a mistake, then fine, I trusted a friend - I'll take that blame anytime; I have lots of friends and I trust them all - but that hardly constitutes justification for someone laying claim to my stolen car.

Glad all you guys are on the left coast....

Stay over there.

This is one of those sad situations, Smokey you surely saw the piece on the news about the old T-bird that was gone for thirty one years and was returned to the owner that it was stolen from in California. It very much sounds to me like you unknowingly bought stolen property.

Here in Arkansas we have what is called a bonded title. I buy a car without a title (from a tow yard or shop) I have to send paperwork to the state with make, model, vin, and so on. They in return send me back a form to fill out and a $number that I have to get a bond from a insurance company iin that amount. The state then issues me a title in MY name and I can resale the car to anybody and the buyer and myself is protected by that bond in case there are future claims against the car. I would think since there is a "lien service" involved that there should be some kind of recourse with them. With that said, even though Smokey bought the car on good faith and has a title (although not in his name) the 914 should be returned to the rightful owner and Smokey and all the other "owners" should go back to the Lien service and the state.

Gee Aaron, how is this car stolen! Please prove that!? CHP said it should have never been reported stolen because it never WAS stolen. You have a car down the street with the wrong plates on it being watched by a "friend" in Oakland and street cleaning. The car WAS TOWED NOT STOLEN! They (Tow Company)did not contact you because the plate that "looked good" was not you! And by the time you looked in the tow yards it was liened. You should know well enough that cars are towed from the street and complexes in the Bay Area 100's of times a day. Just go to City tow in San Francisco. Your incompetence in storing your car on the streets of Oakland or in a complex (where all it takes is 1 complaint), puting the compliant plates on it and trusting the wrong "friend" has led to your loss. That is a lack of thought of care in your vehicle. Not eveyone is on your timetable! REPEAT this car was not stolen!

You can butter up all the people on this site with your thanks and praise, yet I can't afford your foolishness. I stopped the auction originally to take the time to contact CHP as well as friends in Law enforcement, counsel etc. and give you the benefit of the doubt. I understood your loss and the discussion was to get you your car back.
Then for 3 weeks you never once contacted me. Correct? No effort on your part to provide detailed proof of anything but incompetence. You have also failed to demonstrate any seriosness in settlement. No communication whatsoever. Yet I read all the fourm threads in great detail. "I" am just a theif with a "stolen?" car, no morals, class, heart, that needs to be snuffed! "I" should give the car back, "I" should go after the lein company, "I" should get an insurance company to pay me back my funds? On the fricken contrary.
This wholething Disgusts me! You never intended to pay the costs at all. You want me to store the car for a few months until you find somebody somewhere to give you your old car. Get real, That's not going to happen.! I have legal title on this car. I bought the car legally. I have done nothing wrong! You on the otherhand have been inept on all fronts. This ludicrous situation was never of "my" choosing

Easy now Smokey. Before you start thinking Grant is your only friend you need to know something... Grant is the quintessential devils-advocate. He likes to balance arguments. You are losing so in order to bring everything out into the open and discover what is really going on he argues your side. Often, this uncovers more truth. He calls it stirring the shit But I have known Grant long enough to know he is intelligent and knows what he is doing when he does that. He is correct. There are holes in both of your stories. He is just trying to "out" one of you.
This is not the place this should play out. You are clearly not willing to let Mr. Mason work it out with you. Why don't you two place the car in the physical custody of a neutral third party and go to a mediator. Bring all of your witnesses and paperwork and let them decide.
If you want to stick to your position knowing your selling someone elses stolen car then you really shouldn't hang out here. You will find the names you are called disturbing. But, then again, it is important to have an accurate self-image.

Great now look who chimes in. This couldn't get anymore F'd up

Oh to be 10 yrs old again 'finders keepers losers weepers'

I have suspected this is probably closer to the true story, but who knows?

10 years old?
More like 3.5...

My 8 year old daughter has more sense than that -


Smokey wants to completly ignore the laws, or only apply them when they appear to be in his favor, and claim that the car is his based on some far fetched idea that Aaron"deserved" to lose the car -



What a crock of shit...

I don't understand how this car is not stolen. Someone took it from me, and Oakland PD themselves told me that it wasn't towed and that it was stolen. It wasn't towed. I don't want to waste any more time debating that.

I offered to pay for the car weeks ago, just as I did a few days ago, and didn't get a response while I've been following up on my side of this investigation. I told you I'd take care of all details as I've had multiple offers from people here and friends in Oakland to handle everything from paperwork to car storage for me in CA, but your intentions it seems have never been to sell the car back to me without making a profit.

If this is just going to be us going back and forth with speculation then let's just save ourselves the trouble and stop posting. As I've said before, we're both going to do what we're going to do, and making wild accusations on this board isn't going to help anyone.

If anyone here has any specific questions then please ask; otherwise, Smokey, please save everyone here the headache.

Prove it Aaron! Prove it!!
I am the only headache from Wild Accusations! And when did you offer to pay me? When? You are unbelievable!

Why do i find myself drawn to such idiocy?

This clearly sucks for ammason. The car was taken from him. No question about that lame fact.

But dang. Good lesson here: A car left on a public street for any extended period of time is subject to being towed. Leaving such a car out there for so long with out-of-state obsolete plates is pretty foolish. Especially when you are putting off that responsibility "because it looks cool and might get you out of a ticket because the cop doesn't want to deal with it." That's just dumb thinking. Seems to me that taking care of this responsibility would have prevented this mess, no??

I'm not making a case for Smokey at all. I'm not impressed with his BS here. Based on what I've read though, I don't blame him for ending up with the car.

What I would like to see based on the little bit of history here:
1. We all learn from ammason's mistake.
2. Smokey, do the moral/ethical/cool/right thing and help ammason get his car back as simply as possible without trying to make a bunch of profit on it.

I would think anyone buying this car would want formal document from CHP that clears this car and states the facts of the case.

Aaron -
If you have the proof, rather than providing it to Smokey, please send it to the FEDs in Oakland, and insist that they investigate Smokey for attempting to sell a stolen vehicle - Smokey continues to insist you provide all the proof, while he has provided nothing -
For the sake of all, please make sure he gets what he deserves - at the very least, a huge pain in the ass -

As entertaining as this thread has been... and it's had it's moments... it's time to move on. Please direct any of your questions to the parties involved - through PMs or email.

Kind regards,
Lawrence