Road Scholars has this 73 2.0 up for sale on their site...

http://www.theaircooledguys.com/Inventory/...61/Default.aspx

Supposedly only 3,700 original miles...

And who can spot the first three "Idiosyncrasies" of this supposedly "New" 2.0???

There are probably more, but I stopped counting after three very obvious ones...

So, if you have seen this one in person, tell us what you think...

"Fake or Real Deal"???

I think that's Zambezi green, Irish ended in 72 IIRC

on the car either way. If you do go see, I'd love to hear about it.

Ferg

holy shit. I don't think I've ever seen anything that clean!

Nobody could do a restoration like that to fake it. Well - not without doing things like replacing the wiring harness, re-plating everything ...

Call me gullable but I would say that's the real deal. If it isn't then I don't want to know!

I didn't see a price. 'If you have to ask you can't afford it!'

As to the trivia game ...
I've only seen 1.7s so I'm at a disadvantage. The only 3 things that I think are odd are:
extra power pickup from the battery for something non-stock.
Speakers are bodged in - looks exactly the way I did it back in the day right down to the tape.
I've never seen a white gas lid.

Sorry to say that that is our old 1974 914 1.8 that we totally made like new with all new parts able to be ordered from Porsche back then. We started with a pristine 68,000 mile mostly original paint car (except for the hood and cowl) installed by old girlfriend Mary's great running 2.0 engine after painting the sheetmetal and cleaning it up, and then added all of the 2.0 "goodies" including five brand new fuchs alloys and new chrome bumpers, AND new instruments including new speedo at zero miles (that is where they get the 3000 miles was driven little after we did our job on it!) Anyone who knows 914s can see that this is far from being an original car and the dead giveaway is the stud in the right front of the rear trunk to hold the charcoal cannister!!!!!! We entered this car in many concours competitions and always won, but NEVER represented the car as an original 2.0! We sold this car finally about five? years ago and have not seen it since. So here it is again. CERTAINLY not three thousand miles!

I said I didn't want to know!

oh - add to the trivia - bosch blue coil

and no we did not butch in the speakers but did install the bosch blue and actually had a monterey cassette in the dash that was later taken out! Look closely at the sticker above the relay board and one can see that it is a 1.8 originally installed engine. anyway how much did they want for it????

I called, no call back yet...

Ferg

Well - like cubic zirconia - it is a beautiful fake. Nice work George.

It's outrageous that this car is misrepresented with respect to mileage and originality. With this forum as active as it is, seller beware! The 914world gonna ferret you out and make you tell the truth!

Paul

THANK YOU! Bill Blymiller purchased that car new here at taurus porsche audi. It sat on our lot for almost a year back in the late eighties, a totally stripped zambezi green 1.8 with black bumpers and tan interior, NO one wanted it for 4500.00 because of the color (imagine that back then!!!!) Anyway we took it under our wing and decided to see if we could buy EVERYTHING new to make it into a highly optioned 914 2.0, just to see what someone would have to spend to make a concours winner. We were even able to buy an complete new interior and every piece of carpet! (granted the car back then was nice with only 68 thou but we wanted to make it extraordinary)

Paul really, any of us old 914 guys can spot that car as a total fake. Granted (if I do say so myself) nice but in no way original. It is really stupid for a company to actually THINK that that car has only 3500 miles as well. They HAVE to know better or it blows their whole representation of ANY Porsche they have for sale at their facility.

So George, you gonna tell them?

Paul

We COULD play "name that flaw" in this 3500 mile 7.....3? 914!!!!!!

Gotta disagree with you there George. I doubt that there are more than a handful of people that have seen enough different 914's to spot one bolt that gives it away as an engine transplant. The only visual clue that I know of between a 73 and a 74 is the bumpers and with the replacement we couldn't pick up on that either.

What's up with that 'VIN' - is that a chassis number.

edit: I was going to suggest that event the dealer could have been fooled by this car but I guess if he looked at the vin or the title he would know. Might not be able to spot the engine swap though.

73 had metal sills. 74 had black plastic.

well done sir! I had thought the black plastic ones were all replacements.

They have a lot of pictures and the stamped VIN on the fender has 47429... They have to know that this isn't right. They put the chassis number as the VIN and even that they put a 1 instead of a 0. They have a picture of that stamping too.

Ok, I have a plan.

I buy the car, have the FBI procecute them for internet fraud (free of charge, of course), they lose, pay me back the purchase price AND I get to keep it!!!!!

Seriously, though, why would they represent a car as a low mileage original with sooooo many things wrong, incorrect , etc. with it? Were the fan shroud and brain box painted? They could have at least bought/faked the proper colored vaccum hoses!

Like the politicians say - 'Plausible deniability'. This is a reseller. He didn't do the work and can say that he too was hoodwinked.

I agree that every thing in the engine bay looks brand new - how did you do that George? I've realized (as I was sandblasting my tin) that you can tell tin that has been tarted up. The original tin has white stencilled lettering in a couple of places. There is also an aluminized label that gives the timing details. Photos don't show those areas but in person you could tell. I think there is also some stenciling on the fan shroud too isn't there?

That isn't Zambezi green much to bright...My 73 is Zambezi green and it is a much darker shade of green.

George will know, but that's zambezi, hard for photo's to come out right.

Ferg

ps, still no call back on asking price...

you are good! We painted the shroud back then because we had no one to cad a metal piece that large. If we had the car back we could these days do a lot more to make it more perfect. Have them read the label above the relay board. It will clearly say that the original engine was a 1.8

The car did have all of the original paint except for one fender the hood and the cowl. Something scratched them years ago and broke the windshield and WE repainted them. All of the engine sheetmetal was painted and of course we have new valve adjustment stickers for the tin. As previously commented the vacuum lines are not the right colors and that is because the proper colors are no longer available.

I was just thinking that from my observance of all of the comments on this site that there are some real experts here when it comes to spotting a fraud, I dare say at least as good as I am! (no kudos here for me just 33 years of looking at them every day!!!!!!!!!!!)

good. But actually the jan 73 up cars had black plastic

He, He!!!

I love you guys! Another Myth Is BUSTED!!! 3,700 miles, My A**!!!

I stopped looking for "falsification clues" after I picked out the screwed up Serial Number, Speakers, the Blue Coil, and the incorrect Vacuum Lines...

George got me on the Charcoal cannister stud... Good One!

I just can't believe these Sellers would dump their reputation trying to sell a faked up 914!!! They have some decent Porsches on their lot, and now I wouldn't touch any of them for fear that they are "tarted up" to say the least!

And the real humdinger is that they claim to know Porsches, and conveniently hid all of the true 'telltales" ( the door jamb VIN Sticker, the Passenger fender tag, the 1.8 engine sticker, etc, etc) from the photos... Yes, I think there is a very good chance you could buy the car, and sue for gross and deliberate misrepresentation of the vehicle, especially if you paid them and had them ship the car to you! Of course, NC law may be iffy on such a situation... lets hear from our Legal Beagles out there! Who wants to try getting a free 914???

could be the picture but i don't think that is L60E. maybe willow? i've got a white 72' that was originally irish green. i've seen a number of L60E cars painted white, red, BLACK (wtf). irish green is one of my fav colors on a 914. with nice chrome bumpers and bright trim it's stunning.

what a stupid ad. no price.

k

George, what color is it I have no doubt it's Zambezi, but clear it up for us.

http://homepage.mac.com/markd/914/colors.html

And let's not jump all over the seller yet. They could be totally in the dark. It could be a recent trade in, and to a Porsche guy, (not specifically a 914 guy) it's not THAT obvious that the car is a dupe.

Let's wait and see if they correct the ad, if they don't THEN let's jump all over them

Ferg

Ummmm... I think most any dealer that claims to know Porsches, would be able to decipher the door jamb VIN Sticker, and see that this is a 1974 914, which the sellers conveniently left out of the photos... Unless someone conveniently "Peeled" that sticker and maybe switched in one of the newer ones??? But in any case, the actual VIN tag should not have changed... or did it?

Nope, I think we got ourselves a Genuine, bonafied "Ringer" here!!!

And, unfortunately, there are some folks out there that would not have a clue as to the details, and would be most disappointed when the took their VERY expensive beauty to a Porsche show and got greatly embarrassed!

Curious, most sellers of a 3700 mile car would have a pic of the speedo, showing the odometer display of the miles?? I don't see it.
Oh well.
CCL

playing devils advocate, but it could very easy say 12/73 or such on the door jamb sticker, and throw off the dealer.

Who knows what line of bull he got from the person he got the car from, or maybe it's there on consignment and he's just listing it with the info he was given...

Still a nice car. I'd pay 10k for it

Ferg

seriously? ha!

k

it is certainly Zambezi green the original factory paint was in great shape except for the parts we painted and there was a peck with a touched up chip just below the sail panel.

The point here about the seller is if he HONESTLY does not know that this car is obviously not a 3700 mile car, then how can we trust him to know anything about the other Porsches he is selling!!!! That would mean he is at least naive, and if so could never trust his descriptions (which in his naive mind are accurate!!) I always give one the benefit of the doubt, so we can assume that this guy just does not know Porsches at all.

The three instruments we replaced with new and I am sure that he read the miles from the new instrument. I am still curious as to how much he wants for the car.

I would even pay more. It WAS when we had it really a nice car. Too bad someone butched the speaker covers over those brand new factory grilles we bought and installed! Reminds me of the time somone took my concours tangerine (blood orange) 914-6 that they had just purchased from me for 35,000 (back in 1991) and cut the brand new factory LOOP rocker carpet that I had installed, to install a roll bar!!!!!!

George, any pics from when you had it and did the work?

I plan on calling again today, about price. I have a feeling it will be in the 20's

If I do talk to someone, I'll nicely inform them of the errors, and direct them here to defend themselves.

Ferg

Okay, I will take George's point (well made!) and assume that the seller is just naive about Porsches, and especially naive about 914's...

Until proven otherwise!

BUT, that said, we sure don't get any "Warm and Fuzzy's" from such a dealer!!!

Now, on to the next "Fun" item with this car! A Pool for guessing the current asking price!

Of course, once Ferg tips him off, the game changes, but I will place my money on $35,000.00, knowing that the seller is usually VERY proud of his Porsches!!!

Of course, once the jig is up, I would have to assume that the price will drop dramatically, and I would not be surprised to see the car pulled, and sent packing, prolly back to it's former owner, with legal papers attached!

But, for now, let's all toss our bids in the hat, and see who is closest...
And for the winner, dinner with George at the Buckhead restaurant of his choice!

Now we just have to figure out how to collect the pot! ;>))

we have many pics of the car completed. They look fabulous of course with that green finish!

excellent idea! BONES is my choice. Bourbon before, one of those 85 dollar steaks, and big cigars afterwards!

Bones, it is!

Geo. A. Dickel Special Reserve, Neat...

Porterhouse, Rare... w/ sauteed Vidalia's and Morel mushrooms

Baked Potato w/ Cavier and Sour Cream, Chives ...

Fresh Peach Cobbler w/ real whipped cream...

Cohiba's all around... (I suppose I will have to break into my stock for those!)

More Geo. A. Dickel (BTW, what was Geo. Dickel's Wife's first name??? Yes, it has something to do with the great State of Georgia...)

Oh, hell, I'll pay my own way! Let's see... if I fire up the SC right now, I can be sitting in Atlanta by... well, 10:30, but that's a bit late for Dinner...

Let's see who else chooses to venture a guess! ;>))

I work about 5 miles from the address they give. I have plans this evening at home, but I may do a drive by on the way home just to see what resides at that address.

Thanks Richard! We look forward to your scouting expedition!

But... you need to put in your guess as to the Asking Price b4 you chug over and buy the car from them!

inquiring minds want to know! I called twice only to hear an answering machine

Marion Dickel,

All in all I have to say that I've seen this zambezi green 914 and it truly is a very nice car. At least it was 10 years ago when I last saw it. Actually the original owner was my boss when I lived in Atlanta.

I would be proud to own this car. How many concours, show quality, high dollor 356's are out there that do not have their original engine. George put so many NOS parts on this car that someone that doesn't know much about 914's could possibly believe it to be an extremely low milage car. The chrome was perfect, the interior was perfect, the fuchs were perfect, the factory exhaust and heater boxes were perfect and the paint condition was excellant.

Is this car worth as much as my all original, 22,000 mile Sahara Beige 914? No, not even close but in my opinion it is (or at least was) a car worth far more than any average or above average 914.

Let's just say I have a some interest in the value of this car.


Greenie

Actually, Geo. A. Dickel's wifes first name was Augusta...

And as Geo. Hussey has stated, the car, when it left his premises, WAS, and likely still IS, a collection of new and nearly new or very nice, used parts... a very, very nice collection at that!!!

The point being, that IS NOT how it is being advertised! It is being represented as a PERFECT 1973 914 2.0, with 3,700 ORIGINAL miles...

Which it is most certainly not... it is not a 1973, it is not, by birth, a 2.0 Liter, it does not have 3,700 original miles, and no matter how hard George tried, it is not a perfect specimen, simply because parts of the car have been repainted, and will eventually develop rust bubbles and other nastiness due to the fact that it has been "redone"...

Yes, 356's with incorrect engines are sold every day, and most of them are refinished, and they still bring decent money... BUT... put one up against them that has it's original engine, original paint (even with some "patina", and original provenance, and the price will immediately double or even triple!

And yes, the Zambezi Green car, above, certainly looks like a kissing cousin, except for the lack of "Tits", but if in fact it is a "Real" 1974 2.0, it is already worth far more, IMHO, than the car that provoked this thread!

I told the guy off!

Someone had to do it!
Pat

So much for your week away from the site!

Paul

and the response was ....?

So now that we have rapiered the vendor...

If you had received the full information:
less than 70k miles
2 liter transplant
73 model year

what would you pay for such a beautiful car.

Not what do you think it is worth but what would you pay.

I'm out cause it is way out of my financial league.