You could keep the prize.. If i could do that I'd be plenty satisfied with the ability to make the six following frown at the accomplishment ;-)

Hell, maybe we should start playing with sixes.

Yes please .

OK so here is my question.....You say these type IV motors are as strong as the sixes Jake. What about (my idea of a failure point) the fact that there are only 3 main bearings in the 4 as opposed to the 7 in the six? I would think this to be the main failure point or area of 'twist' which leads to other 'misalignments'

I have about 700 miles on my newly built Raby Kit 2270. The motor actually exhibits better numbers as far as temps and such so I can honestly say it isn't working as hard to make 170+ HP as the stock motor was to make 90 HP. It has amazing torque. I can be on the freeway in 5th gear at 70 and just accelerate without downshifting to pass. When you go through the gears it pulls like a raped ape. I am so pleased with this motor that I have my eye on his turbo project. Of course that would be a Jake built motor as I don't think he will make kits for it.
I have no concerns about longevity at all. As I said, it seems to be less stressed than the stock 2.0 liter.
I would actually have to disagree with those who think the 6 is an obvious choice. The application of modern testing and technology makes that choice less obvious every day. It is a good choice, certainly but not the only one.

I counter this with;

The reason the six needs more mains is because it is LONGER to support two extra cylinders, the longer span creates MORE flex over the span of the crank. This means that more support is needed to keep flex down.

We keep flex down by using stiffer cranks and also by using the largest rod bearing journals possible, this reduces "overlap" between the crank throws and makes for a stronger crank as well. This is why my rod journal of choice is .100 larger in diameter than the stock 2.0 journal size.

With our 4340 chromoly billet cranks flex is also greatly reduced, but not even the stock German cranks had flex issues, we turn these to 9,000 RPM with up to FOUR POUNDS removed from them, one of these has four seasons of peoduction racing under it's belt and still passes magnaflux every time.
Here is a picture of that particular crank
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Here are the rod bearings out of that engine after 12 45 minute races, one season of use @ near 180HP from 1832cc
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And here are the main bearings
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I don't see any signs of wear, do you???? Want a few hundred more examples of reality? I have them because I keep logs on EVERYTHING, nothing like data and proof.

BTW- The TIV actually has 4 main bearings.

The 547 4 Cam Carrera engine also used "only 3" main bearings as illustrated in this pic I took while working on one last month(This is actually a 592 from a 904). The 547 engine could sustain 8,000 RPM at Le Man for 24 hours without failure and that was with metallurgy from 1955.


That being said I have seen TWO broken TIV cranks in my life, both came from 5,000 pound VW buses after being driven across mountains... I have never personally experienced one of these failures and lord knows I have broken at least one of everything else over the years.

The key is proper dynamic balance and combustuion balance, all 4 cylinders firing evenly with little variance in CR and mixture quality is key to eliminating failures.

My .02 and it is worth precisely that . . . .

I REALLY struggled with this as I had to make the decision what to put into my '73 restoration project. I bought the car with the intent of doing a turbo Subie swap. I then decided to keep the car stock. That decision led me to look at Jake's offerings. With the 4, especially one of Jake's 4s, you've got a very nimble, reliable package. With the 6, especially a larger 6 (3.0 plus), you gain some weight, you gain some complexity, you gain some additional maintenance expenses due to the price of Porsche parts and you gain horsepower and torque. I found a really nice 3.2 6 and that will be going into my car. With the MSDS headers and a Steve Wong chip, I should be making ~250hp in my teener with the stock injection.

My 1.7 TIV will be crated and stored. When the 914 is complete and my bank account recovers, I will begin a 550 Spyder kit (another wanted car). When the time comes, I will call Jake again, order one of his engine kits, rebuild my 1.7, and put a lightweight, reliable, fire-breathing TIV making ~200 or so hp into my lightweight, tube-framed Spyder.

I've decided to go with a 2.0L 4!

Picking it up this weekend

Excellent choice.

I've had, what... 7 914's over the years. I have had both and currently own a 74 2056/4 and my /6 is still in resto state with a proposed 2.7.

With that experience, I think what I would really like to have is a very nice 914 with a Raby 2270. I'll have to drive Rob's one day if I ever get the chance.

Great choice..
I am working on the finalities of the 2008-2009 engine kit program as we speak..
You'll like what we have cooked up! More power and less cost with some kits as much as 600 bucks LESS than last year!

WOHOO!!! sounds good. I will have to go back to your site to check out the new prices.

They will be up, along with detailed presentations by the time we close down for our Christmas break...

It is taking tons of time to get all the descriptions changed, presentations made and items functioning in the store.

I update the kit program every two years, add new combos and revitalize the old ones and it SUCKS when I have to do it!

The last two years have seen some incredible advancements. More than the previous two years. I imagine that adds quite a bit of time to the catalog update process!
I'm looking forward to seeing the finished site.

Yep.. It took me all day just to finish the 2056cc offering details!

After this there won't be many questions to answer!

2008 is the year of application, we'll only be developing the Porkies heads and finishing up the roller cams while spending a ton of time on the Boxster program...

Yup. If you want to compete on a national autoxing level then go with a big 4.

A 6 on the track is wonderful, although I can't wait to take "222" out there to see how it does against our 2.7- 6.

If you're talking SCCA "national autoxing level", you can be the first in recent memory. Big fours land in the big dog classing also.

oops

It is amazing how much the type4's have advanced in the last 10 years i dont know Jake directly but he has spent numerous hours with my brother on the phone or with email over the last 10 years. and i have learned alot about the motors between him and Jake. I will have a Raby motor in my 72 one day. the sixes are great too. i like the t4 because its always the underdog its the motor that goes against to others. i remember telling my brother 15 years ago that i wanted to hot rod a type 4 motor and he thought i was crazy. he was snowballed with the t1 (VW Scene)

A Raby 6..??? sounds good to me..

I did this on Thursday.

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Pump gas, TIV non aftermarket head castings twin plugged with LE 225 treatment. The intake ports are NOT WELDED!!

The engine ran for 3 days on 4 gallons of fuel in the dyno cell while I searched for the proper tune.. It had BSFC numbers as low as a 2270 engine and wouldn't get to 350F head temp no matter how hard I tried.

It idles at 700 RPM smoother than stock and doesn't need more than 5,500 RPM to make it's power.

Yeah, we have advanced to the next level.... Again.


The same base engine made only 235 HP with big aftermarket single plug heads in 2005 with 2.5mm MORE bore and 80 CFM more port flow and the SAME cam..

Bigger is not better-

I know of one local bro who hates it when Raby engined cars pass his 3.2L on the track.

Thats the whole reason why I do the things I do!

More with less!

In my opinion six is best choice as there are still hundreds of well repected suppliers and shops supporting the Porsche Six. Big VW T4 and youre stuck with what? One or two suppliers? Thats a problem in my book when you talking about a track motor. Porsche pedigree six is far more reliable and better supported than a big VW T4 for track use. The six is still actively raced very competitively. Aside from FP 1.8 liter VW T4's (throw away motors) I havent seen too many Big VW T4's successfully campaigned in a real race series. There might be a handful of examples. Track driving/racing is more than a silly dyno sheets and HP/liter.

Big T4 is still pretty much a special application motor - decent for AX and bragging rights on the street. If your gig is all about showing people what a bad ass T4 you have by all means go for a Big VW T4. If you want a practical track car motor that will be very reliable and has tons of support go with a six. Going with a six over a big T4 was one of the best decisions I have made for a track car.

Nice thing about more 6 cylinder conversions being done is that aftermarket support for 914-6 actually becomes viable. I have seen some great stuff come out over the past few years due to all the conversions that are happening.

I do like Jakes big VW motors. Eventually I can see having a limited use street car with a big VW motor with lots of chrome and shiny stuff that would be cool.

JP, You made me laugh with that dyno post! I'm sure that my 2.5 six on Jakes engine dyno would be close to your motor. What? ...Probably about 275 HP?

Grant,

Glad to see you are back from Hibernation. We all thought you had been subject to an alien abduction.

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AW come on man! There should be at least 2 in there!!

Just Kidding Jake you do great work...I'd love to spar with one of your engines on a track.