Just rolled into the driveway from a 70 mile trip back from McMark's Original Customs Shop in Napa... Wow. I left Mark's shop at about 4:30pm so I knew I was going to get some traffic. But magically, it was sporadic and I just cruised. This motor just never ceases to amaze me. 5th gear passes are no problem. The power is everywhere. Not peaky at all. just pulls from the bottom to the top. I love this motor!!!

I think my motor is a similar combo to Dave Hunt. He has Nickies which are actually good for a little power in addition to better cooling.

I will be working out some details over the winter which will be small stuff at best. Possibly an external oil cooler. Though, I have to tell you guys this again, this motor runs cooler than my stock 2.0 liter.

I strongly recommend the 2270 Raby kit. Build it yourself or have Mark do it. He has a couple of them under his belt now. This is the motor VW-Porsche should have used.

Your getting me to excited . I can hardly wait to experience mine. Engine is done
but the car is a ways off.

Craig, Did you test fire it and run in the cam? Unless you are happy with the sound coming from behind you, get a more powerful amp for the stereo!!!

Haven't started it yet. I actually have it setting in the office at my house as I figured
it would better than in the garage collecting dust. Pretty noisy huh?

Rob, I can only imagine, considering how nicely my new 2056 with stock D-jet runs and pulls.
Was at Laguna a week ago and put the hurt on a '65 911 sporting a Jerry Woods 2.0L 6 putting 170HP to the ground. I am sure it hurt him mightily to give me the passing signal between 4 &5 and then later in the day going up the main straight.
you can just make him out behind me in this pic.

Damn you thoroughly for this post!

You suck!

don't rub it in

What! no pics??

Ok...

Oh! Did you mean car pictures???

Posing for the camera...

I'd have to say I agree with that too. You suck! I want to drive a 2270.

Dan,
I think between the handling of the 914 and your skillzzz you might have had an advantage over the 911. Nice pic though. Makes me want to get out there on the track even more...

This is how they should have come from their momma!!!

just for information purposes.
the '65 911 is a purpose built track car. Full cage, gutted interior, 6" Fuchs with 205 Hoosiers, CF race seats, full track suspension and the aforementioned 170HP JWE motor. the car is probably weighs no more or even less than my 914
It was built to run the Carrera de Panamerica

SWB 911 handling sucks compared to a 914.

That 2270 sounds sweet too! When Chris took it for a test run it sounded really nice. It even has me thinking to build one for season 1-2 for my track car. I figure until my driving skills get better I could cheat a little on dispacement b/c I will still loose

handling on a well setup SWB 911 is not so bad....look at all the guys doing vintage racing with that exact setup....they do pretty well.

on the actual subject of this thread....if a 914 can do that well with a mild 2056, then a comparable 914 with a 2270 would be fantastic on the track...
It will also be a formidable AX weapon...would love to have that kind of power in my Puttputt.
Lite weight of the type 4, equivilent HP to a small 6 and more torque...whoooppeeeee
I'll be looking forward to running against Rob in an AX this coming season

I sold my 67 last year and took in trade the 914 track car project. Mine was set up by Patrick motorsports but was still pretty darn tail happy. I loved the looks of that car. I even sold it with first right of refusal if the new owner decides to sell it. In fact I like the look of the car so much that I am the 3rd and 5th owner of the car already. But the 914 is by far a superior handling car. Maybe not a race winner in my hands though but I have watched 914's beat far superior HP 911's on the track and not just early swb cars.

this past weekend I disposed of a 71S, a 996, a 993, a GT3 and other various cars...all with my 2056.
yes a couple of those are not being driven to their potential, but I still got around them regardless.
the 71S is a dedicated track car on stickies and I put him away. also put away an SC on stickies and track setup.
I can outbrake and get thru most corners faster than most of the above cars, and initial grunt off the corners is not bad. With a 2270 my car would be fantastic.
Maybe I should be building a 2270 on my GA case instead of selling it to you Rob.

All I can say is - THAT WAS FUN!
Thanks again for the test drive.
If the 914 came from the factory in 1972 with a 2.3 TIV, it could have changed the history of the 911 So much TORQUE compared to my 1.7, but a little louder than I thought it would be, even with the engine sound pad in. I hope to drive it again sometime, or maybe my own in the future

Well, well, well....

How a couple of years can change things... A couple of years ago anyone starting a thread like this would be been blasted to Mars and told that those results were impossible or "That guy in Georgia isn't doing anything special to these engines". I fought with those bastards, fought with the engine and got the results we were looking for, and yes it is special and no, you can't parallel it without a kit!

Like my Dad always says "Nothing ever stays the same".

We have worked hard to develop the 2270 and 2316 combos for more power and less cost, the 2008 kits, when released in a few days will be proof of this. The biggest change with the 08 kits is the fact that we won't be selling them to anyone having them assembled bu a shop other than MarkD (on the west coast) and DTM Engineering (on the east coast) since the reconfigurations we have done to make the engine kits easier to assemble. With my "Extensive prep" service we mock up the entire engine, measure deck, crunch the CR and even do valve train geometry for you! Its a heck of a deal at 650 bucks extra! With this uyou womn't need a single special tool.. Heck, I am shooting the assembly video now and will be purchasing a 120 piece craftsman tool set to use in the video to prove thats all is needed to put the entire engine together aside from whats included in the kit when the "extensive prep" service is added.

Rob, your kit varys greatly from Dave Hunt's, especially in the camshaft department.. You have the same heads and basic parts, but the cam is not even close to being the same..

We are still trying to find the reason why Dave's engine made so much more power than it was supposed to.

The key behind the success of my engine development program has been focusing on very broad, very usable power across the entire RPM range and sacrificing "peak" power figures for a higher average power. Extending the torque curve into a "torque plateau" has been the goal.

Below is the power output from last week's test of the LEAST PERFORMING member of the 2270 family for 2008. Two years ago this combo would not have broken 140HP, and it would have taken another whole point of CR and 5 degrees more duration to even get that much power from it! remember, this is a DAILY DRIVER combo, designed for drivability and longevity, it doesn't have or need dual valve springs!


When is the last time you saw flat torque between 3-5,500 RPM???

Nope, we aren't doing anything special at all... Some jack asses still think that!

Thats rad Jake, keep up the good work!

Thanks....

We'll be applying a couple of years worth of developments in 2008-2009 and going on to the Boxster and 997 for the next development platform..

We'll see if we can't "un bastardize" the Boxster engine like the TIV :-)

wah wah wah wahter cooled? Really? When you make it big with that wine and cheese crowd, don't forget about us a/c guys!

I've been hearing you rant about radiators for years. Boxsters Gracey? Water cooled motors? Radiators?!?!?!

YEA, YEA, YEA, we know your wifes hot!

you suck about that too

I'm getting so exited to get my engine home. I've done a bunch of work, the engine bay is all cleaned up and the car should be stiffer to handle the extra torque.

This is the engine that should have come in the car. When Motor Trend made it the car of the year in 1970, they would have had to back it up with another one in 73 if this engine was in the car. It would have been the kickass car of the era.

Dave

And none of us cheap bastards could afford them now because they would hold past super car status.

Yep, I still hate them more than ever...
In business we have to do things that we don't like to remain successful.

Thats the ONLY reason I am doing this development. It'll provide even more capital for aircooled expansion and further exploration.

I spend more on development than most people take home every year and with today's economy that can't keep up unless we venture into enexplored territory.

We are busier with TIV stuff than ever, but it's time to work with something that can take up two more decades ahead.. Nothing with TIVs will slow down, we'll just be applying what we have learned in the past two years to the program in a "non experimental" fashion.

Yep, I still hate radiators as much as ever, give me a few weeks and I'll probably hate them even more. I boight a 98 Boxster for a test car, but I'd rather drive the Bus, Pinz or 912...

I really hate these posts, makes me want to spend all my money on an engine, haha. I'm sure it would be a night/day difference having that much TQ over such a large RPM range. I can't even imagine what that'd be like.

Keep up the good work Jake.
Shame about going into newer motors, haha...if you want a challenge (and I was made of money) I'd have you take a look at my 1974 2.8 Mercedes in-line 6!

Dan,
I guess I have to let you drive it huh... I need a track mentor because I haven't been on the track in years and when I did it was with a 240Z.

Chris,

I think the loud factor is actually my fault and has nothing to do with the motor. McMark pointed out that I have only half of the sheetmetal screws in the Tangerine heat box. So part of what you are hearing is a vibration. Another thing is I have something called the Dellorto Whistle. The Dells have a hole down in the bottom that sucks in air under load so as I accelerate I get a whistle. I guess there is a gasket that eliminates it. Jake has a set he is going to send me. I guess he is buried in inventory right now. The last and most important thing I did to make this engine louder than you like is I used the JWest nylon motor mount. Don't get me wrong. They are a good product. Whenever you modify something you should start with a vision of what you want to end up with, consider the consequenses of your plans, and dial it up or down. I thought the nylon would be quieter than the aluminum James offers. I would bet I am right. But, the nylon is too harsh for my taste. They will come out for new stockers and I think you will find the engine sound level very acceptable. Even for an environmental dude like yourself...

For all you guys that said "but for the money..." This is the single most important thing that has made me love the car. I bought it because I was tired of losing to the occasional 914 that showed up at the autocross in my 240Z. Now, I can't imagine not owning this 914. It is a far better car now than when it rolled off the factory floor.

Just courious,

What's the fuel mileage?

I object to the noise because it intereferes with my cruisin tunes.
My 914 has 3-4 coats of Quietcar on the back of the backpad, outside of fan tin, and I wrapped my headers (for cooling, but helps a little with noise).
I wouldn't change a thing on your car - maybe the mounts and maybe get a custom set of 2 7"-7.5" wide 2.0 Fuchs for the rear tires! 5.5s in front 7s in back on 205s all around would be cool.

When I did this cross country trip
www.aircooledtechnology.com/crosscountry

I averaged 23.5 MPG @ an average speed of 76 MPH coast to coast...

Most get 25-26, some have gotten 30.... Its dependant upon gearing, tune and vehicle aero..

Efficiency breeds MPG. Power doesn't mean a reduction in MPG!

Rob, I mailed those gaskets to you weeks ago-

I agree... I haven't been worried about mileage as of yet. New engines aren't typically mileage machines anyway. I left Napa with 1/4 tank of gas. I got home with 1/8th of a tank showing. That is about 70 miles.
Pretty sure my engine is very similar to the development on the cross country trip engine.
Let me check Jake, It could be that it came and Yopu threw it on my workbench in the garage. I wouldn't have noticed it there as I would have expected it in the mail box.

Yopu says she "wishes!" but thank you... Off the record though, I agree. She is hot.

Let me know if you find the gaskets....

Also, what CHT have you been seeing??

Spoken like a good husband

Husband hell!!! She IS hot. But watch out for the evil twin sister...

Of the engine that is.

What exhaust are you running?

T

Trevor, I believe he is running a CFR Tangerine header system

What hole do these gasket's plug on dells? I have a part throttle (I assumed progression port) whistle/squeal too on my dells, but I half thought it was a noisy alternator belt that I couldn't find a good tension on. Goes away at full throttle, which I've always used as an excuse to go faster.

Can you point out on the attached dellorto pic where this gasket goes?

Come to think of it...I'm pretty sure my vacuum ports aren't plugged...
Click to view attachment

Dan is right, I am running Tangerine Header with heat...

I didn't discover the problem with the Dellorto Whistle until I had the engine installed. So I am not sure which holes we are talking about quite yet. I don't want to disable the car by pulling up the carbs before I have the gaskets.

It sounds like birds chirping when you are under load. It goes away once you are launched or have eased off the throttle a bit.

I would love to have that book. I have seen the Tomlinson book on Webers but not Dells. Where did you get it?

I have Dells on my 2056 and they have the chirp also!!! A little annoying....but I am just glad it is running goood!!! I would like to know more on how to get rid of the whistle also...... could we get more info???? Exactly what do we look for and replace ... or whatever we need to do????? Thanks

Jerry,
As I said, I have not looked at the bottom of the carbs but I am told that there is an opening on the bottom that needs to be either covered by that gasket, or epoxied closed. I spoke to CB performance and I was told that the epoxy wouldn't harm the carb if it broke up and came loose. Maybe Jake will chime in. The gasket is no longer available...

Perhaps the guy with the book could take a scan of the bottom of the carbs from the book and show it here. We can do a how-to...

Dells were OEm carbs for Fiats.. In the Fiat carb there is an extra exposed port at the carb flange. When this is esposed air moves through it at a very high speed, high enough to chirp...

The carbs that were imported by CB Performance were made for a VW and lacked this port and the chirp.. The gaskets that were made to stop the whilstle simply have a tang that covers the port...

Found these that might help:

Gasket

Here's a random picture from TheSamba where the port someone filled with RTV. THIS IS NOT MY REPAIR

This RTV fix looks a bit sloppy...

Any pics of the bottoms without the fix so we can see what needs to be epoxied?

CB Performance tells me the gaskets are NLA and they don't expect more production.

Mark, lets do a guage install day soon. Jake is looking for CHT#'s I cannot give him.