man

that stuff is scary

i just had a surface paint job on my car about a year ago, but it wasnt sanded down to metal, and it didnt cover the jams or anything, and now, i feel like i should strip the car and redo it all, to fix any surface rust, or anything worst



i know stuff like the longs and stuff are fine, and the battery tray is still there (though there is some rust on it (isaw it when i relaced the battery a month ago)

i am not completly satisfied with my paint job, not bad for a grand, and good color, but i had those door ding strips, and you can see where they covered it (the change in the paint at certian angles, and see old dings that werent fixed), and they covered some holes from the old wing i had on it, and one of the holes is beginning to crack, and then some mild surface rust in the trunks (all the jams, and everything on the inside hasnt been touched since it left germany back in august 73




i need to win the lotto, so i can start and redo the paint and fix any potential rust problems i cant see

As you can see, as soon as the Bahia-painted tar was removed from the floorpan, and what you see was the stuff that came off easy, there was lots o' surface rust.

It makes my stomach turn...

Then I removed the vinyl covering the various structural members under the seats and found them to be nice and rusty, too. A screwdriver went right through the forward beam under the driver's seat.

Made the decision to "unoriginalize" this piece in the name of getting my seat down REAL easy...

Second picture shows the beginning of the lowered boxed section.

pete

Get up close to things, and you can see where the rust is at work under the factory tar. A look down the front floorpan area indicates that only a little surface rust is having its fun along the lower longitudinal seam. We'll have to clear that up, too.

Oh yeah, you can see some of the change we've found here and there (there's been a LOT of it!!!!) and I thought I kept my floors pretty clean. Also found a cuff-link from prom in there....

The right side beam under the seat, which appears to be much better than the left side (no perforation and seems strong), but will still need attention. Possibly a lot of attention...

So maybe passengers will get treated to a lower seating position, as well...

Unfortunately, here's where I got more than a little depressed and thought about rolling the car into the bay, or looking for a rust-free chassis...



While the main firewall, hell hole (thank Mick for the Optima back in 1992!!!), and longitudinals appear to be good, this section has succumbed to the tin worm.

Damn you thoroughly, brown monster!

We poked around in there quite a bit and the only good news is that the real firewall seems VERY strong. The bad news is that this is plain fugly. We'll fix it right, treat the area as best we can (possibily cutting "access" holes for the processs into this "outer" panel, and be thankful the Engman kit will cover this area and add strength.

To be honest, and I know there are far braver rust fighters than I, this greatly disheartened me. But then, I have owned this car since high school and another chassis number just wouldn't be the same.

Nonetheless, and PLEASE LISTEN TO ME HERE, fix that rear window, whatever it costs. I listened to mine rattle for years, and never took it too seriously. Now I am spending big hours and big bucks to fix the problems it created, years after I had the window fixed right. If you drive your 914 in the rain, this matters.

And, if you wash your 914 with running water, this matters...

pete

Yipes! Well, a little late now. I'll have the painter sand it all off and hope for the best. Or offer to do it myself. The car may come down to metal yet.

Thanks for the encouraging words! Me needs them just now.

pete

yieks!

mine was bad, but not that bad ...
Andy

Pete,

Don't give up! I am working on that same section on my car right now and it should be pretty easy to fix. I am also thinking about cutting in some access holes in that area. Both to treat/paint the inside of that bulkhead as well as monitor for rust over the long haul.

I am 6'5" and I like how you lowered the box section/cross member to help lower the seat. I had thought about just cutting it completely out, but the lowered one looks good and keeps some strength in that area. I may have to steal that idea.

Richard

BTW, you saw you have The Crack®, right?

Did notice it, didn't know it had a name.... tell me more!

pete

So that's what must have happened on Olav's paint job.

gotta love old cars (any old car, doesnt exactly matter)


its not what you can always see that is the problem, it is what you cannot see that sometimes where the true issues lie


well, good luck on the rust

and in my opinion, whenever the rust issues are dealt with, i think the vw tornado red is a bitchin' color, and will probably add a bit more 'pop' to the look of the car over the bahia red



anyways, good luck

(rust is the enemy!!)

For sure. I've known that since it happened.

If we sand those areas down prior to paint prep, it should be okay, right?

pete

You can do it man! Hang in there for pete's sake. Hey could this be a future Excellence article?

Sand them down, and talk to your painter. Maybe a dose of brake cleaner, which eats rattle can for lunch, but doesn't usually do much to REAL paint. A wire brush can help too. You're going to have to try and get into the nooks and crannies.

Your painter will know more about interactions. A good sealer might be all it takes (after sanding it off).

The crack - you need to weld it. Best if you open it up with a cutoff wheel and then weld it. Grind it flush, then install the Engman kit. (you want to open it so after it is welded you can grind it flush and still have a good strong weld).

Love the lowering of the seats! Fantastic idea!

Keep posting more pics!


M

That is a common area for cracks to develop. Once the crack is welded up and ground down, the engman kit will help prevent the crack from forming again.

I have seen many cars with cracks right there including mine.

Thanks, guys.

Longitudinals look and sound good -- exception to this is the obvious damage from jack points that failed long ago. I've had the fix-it pieces for those for a long time, just never had them put in. And I've had the rockers off lots o' times over the year to clean out all the crud that accumulates along the sides of the car from the backroads of Northern California.

Well, this time the right jack "box" was fairly clear outside, and pretty clear when I cleaned out its drain hole. It also had good integrity.

pete

Unfortunately, the left box didn't appear to have a drain hole at all -- which didn't go with anything I remembered. Then I finally found it with the screwdriver.

Interestingly, the drain hole is towards the rear on the right side, where you'd think it would be, but it's towards the front on the driver's side, which isn't quite as smart (or maybe it doesn't matter...). Clearly, two stampings weren't in the cards.

Anyway, the left box was PACKED with dirt, and the predictable result was rust on the front face of the box. The good news is that the left longitudinal itself seems completely solid, and as nice as the one on the right. Phew!

I think I am going to go ahead and delete the jack-tube boxes entirely. This will give us a better look in there, and also rid the car of these now useless crud-catchers (which is what I will call these from now on) and I'm just not concerned with the concours aspect of this car. I'm much more interested in long-term preservation of utitlity...

pete

Moving along, here's what I took out of the voids above the taillights. The rust-darkened one from the left side where I had the rust bubble that inspired this odyssey, the light one is from the right side, which was still fine but on its way to a similar fate.

pete

The good... (kinda)

And the ugly...

Now, onto the interior...

closer in on the lowered driver's seat...

And closer still...

another angle...

Bolted the GTS seat in after this and I must say this may be one of the best mods I've ever made to my 914. I like to sit as low as possible and have a long torso, and I *finally* feel like I am sitting in the car low enough. I can see all of the tach through the Prototipo and I love the new position. The seat slides better than it did before, and if I want to change the rake (I don't think I will, but we'll see...), I can always shim it later.

VERY happy with this mod.

pete

Now for the not so fun:

"My" hell hole...

Another angle of hell...

Engman kit preparations. Very nice kit. Some holes seemed to be in the wrong spots for my early '73...

Perhaps these pics will be helpful?

Another...

And one more... of the seatbelt bolt hole. Both had to be modified slightly.

After much discussion, reviews of all the installations detailed here on 914world and on 914club, reading the Engman instructions, and reading over PRS's directives, two race mechanics and I talked over how to actually install the kit -- with the car on the lift or on its wheels. Since you could watch the door gaps grow when you lifted the car on a *very* good lift, and because the gaps were good when the car was on its four wheels and there should not be any distorting if you follow everyone's advice, we decided to weld in the pieces with the car sitting on its suspension. To that end, I went back and got the car's real wheels, with four brand-new Vredesteins, bolted them up, and left for an anniversary weekend.

Imagine my horror when my welder told me he started to see the door gap close up on the passenger side as he started to plug weld the rossette holes -- following everyone's instructions and following his own experience and being cognizant of this potential problem. That's when he decided to finish the right side with the car on the lift, and do the same with the left side. The left came out GREAT when the car was back on its wheels, but the right side was a bit tight. You could still open and close the door, but it was a bit sticky. So, he jacked up the car at a carefully selected point along the longitudinal under the door, and then heated up the plug welds until we arrived at the right gap.

I'm not saying we got it "right," but it is one more data point in this ongoing saga of learning the best way to add the stiffening kit. And no idiots were working on this. Well, at least if you don't count this one...

I'll add pics of the kit in place and some other progress next time I get down to the shop with a camera. I hope this thread is as useful for some of you as so many of your threads have been for me.

pete

Nice to hear about the progress Pete.

No doubt this thread is useful! Keep 'em coming Pete...

Thank you for posting the pics! I always ask for feedback and am glad to see some. I knew the one hole was close to the dimple on the side that you redrilled – and I will relocate it in future production runs on both sides – Thanks! As to the location of the seat belt mounts – I purposely made it a slot as I have seen the front to back variance. Mc Mark is getting ready to do another install and hopefully he will tell me what he sees here. Based on your comments I will have to be more specific on the welding procedure to make sure that the welds are done in a manner to disperse the heat better.

Mark

I installed my kit last year. Went in like butter, I listened to no one because I think I am a 914 God. But either way, my 914 turned out perfect and it made a HUGE difference in the feel of the car.

Great kit Eggman. Trust me when I speak for all of us when I say we appreciate all that you put into your products. Thier quality speaks for your skills and attention to detail.

Mark,

I too think your kit rocks! And I think John's words were "this guy makes the kit TOO well (referencing the time it took him to get it to fit perfectly, but in a good way)." I think he was impressed by the way that you have done this kit, and appear to be laser-cutting it.

I can't wait to drive my car with it in place!

pete

Thanks - but I am always on the lookout to improve what I make. Your feedback makes that possible! For that I thank you, and future owners of my products will too!

Mark

Kit in place...

closer...

Bulk of sills are still Bahia thanks to the aluminum thresholds...

Once the jack-post boxes were cut away, we found solid metal. But rust was at work. I decided to eliminate the boxes, as they failed long ago in a scary way and always seems like the "catch" point for dirt and moisture.

I carry a scissors jack these days....

and the left side...

So this is where the car stands today. Just a little more work and it's off to paint...

And from the rear. Man those 165s on steelies are killin' me!

In my ongoing struggle with Bahia vs. Toronado, I've taken a bunch of pictures of the few areas I've found that are factory original Bahia and untouched by the sun all these years. I suspect this would be of use not only to me, as I have had a tough time finding anything useful online when it comes to color comparisons. Of course, online color judging is inherently flawed, but...

Anyway, out of respect for bandwidth, am I committing a party foul by posting a bunch of them?

pete

Just be sure to post them vertically - as opposed to horizontally (sorry, I couldn't help posting that).