I had Chris (type11969) over the night after the swap meet and we had a great time. He stayed up until 0430 playing cards with Noel and Heidi while I had to retire at 0130 due to the fact I hadn't gotten any sleep from the previous nights. We woke up well rested on Sun and headed out for some brunch. Chris let me drive his 76 westy so I could see how it worked and it was great. When we got back I offered to take Chris for a ride in my car to help fuel his inspiration for completing his. I decided to take him on the road by my house that has one nice long S and a sharp S followed by 2 nice straights. I have driven this road for 3 years and have taken my 914 down it many times. I dont like to drive outside my comfort zone, especially with a passenger so I was fairly tame. I hit the final tight S from a 35mph road to a suggested (yellow sign) 20mph. I made the first part of the S, a right hander, but upon turning for the left part my rear broke loose for reasons I am still pondering. I fished right, steer right, fished left, steer left, back right and that is when the rear wheels left the road and lost traction in the dirt and gravel on the side of the road. The car slid side ways impacting the passenger side against a pole right at the front seam of the passenger door. Chris sustained some broken teeth and some lacerations to his eyebrow, cheek, and lower lip on the right side. Many bystanders stopped to help and one had a first aid kit so I triaged Chris at the scene just before the EMS showed up. They looked him over and recommended that he get the lacerations stitched up and I said I was gonna take him to the ER at Hershey.
I took Chris home, helped clean him up and then we all went to the ER which was thankfully pretty empty. I hung out with Chris the whole time while the girls waited in the waiting room. He is doing well, but his face is swollen a bit and he is going to see the dentist today. The guy is a real trooper. He stayed an extra night at our house and the girls took care of him making him smoothies and home made mashed potatoes.
I am still trying to figure out what was so different to help this accident happen. I made it through the first part of the S fine and the second was not the hard turn. There was no skid marks. I didnt see any gravel, but will go back today to check it out and see if there was something I missed. This is a learning experience that I can not afford to ignore and want to glean every bit I can from it so it will never happen again. I cant begin the put into words the amount of guilt I feel about Chris getting injured. I am just thankful it was not any worse.

I'll get pics as soon as I can so ya'll can maybe learn something or put in your $.02 about what you think happened. The only thing I can think is that I braked too hard , but that doesnt make sense to me since it was the second part of the S and I was in control up to that point.

I am OK physically. Only a bruised knuckle and a nice bruise and abrasion on my left shoulder form the seatbelt. That, and my mind is a little scrambled so if this post is not too linear in thought you know why.

I will be calling the insurance company today and intend to harvest the parts from my car. I will likely need help in valuating it. Too much to think about.

<edited>

JEEZ Mike, that is awful news.

I glad you guys walked away pretty much intact.

Can't really help on speculating on the cause but something led up to it.

Hope you guys heal fast...

First off, damn..glad you guys are ok..
I would suggest, cold tires, extra wieght (you normally drive alone)
You may have carried to much speed into the corner, and with the extra weight you were braking harder...therefore more weight transfer to the front and cold tires (it was pretty cold) will handle like you are on ice...

I have a set of summer tires that are like driving on ice this time of year...

Rich

Good news-everyones alive

get well soon

T.C.

Yup, I am thinking cold tires as well. It was colder that Sun that it had been. More cold = less stick. These were 255s on the back after all.

Ah man, I'm sorry to hear this. I'm glad no one was hurt seriously. I'm sure I'm not alone in offering whatever I can. Whatever parts I have are yours for the asking. Maybe we can organize something like the Jenny rebuild.

For what it's worth, try not to be too hard on yourself, Lord knows we have all put ourselves and passengers at similar risk. I can't explain why I haven't had a similar accident. Grace, Karma, fate, luck, who knows? Sometimes your number just comes up. Thankfully it wasn't worse.

Dave

Bummer Evil, I am sorry to hear that. I am glad you two will be ok.

Sorry to here about this. maybe you don't want to post too much about this yet. If I can help pm me.

That sucks Doc, sorry about your car. Glad everyone is alright, cars can be fixed.

See if the trailing arm on the right side failed somehow. I'm glad you guys are essentially OK.

This will keep you from getting bored with all that free time you have. Ha.

Thanks guys. It is true that the most important things to me are that Chris is OK, I am OK and that he and I are still friends. I cant imagine ever laughing about this at a later date, though.

Jeez Doc sorry about the teener but glad everyone made it out OK.

Wow!!

Sorry to hear about this...BTDT... Glad everyone is ok, heal quick, get well.

I know I was out of 914's for about 10 years after mine...

The worst part is the hurt to others...that takes awhile to get over (if ever)..

Just take it day by day... For sure keep the car and all the parts. Even if in the back of the garage for now...

take care, get well....

Wow, glad it was not more serious.

Take Ricks advice, keep quiet, give him a call and get the ball rolling.

Ferg

PM sent, Rick. Thanks.

Back in the day...I did a road curve that I had down may times at about 80% and ended up losing it and rolling. After a broken proboscis and the tow home, the subsequent inspection found a broken nose cone on the fully synchronized tranny we installed.

58 Karmann Ghia with a 1835cc Type I.....the cone was a welded conversion piece that allowed using a later model tranny replacing early crashbox. Engine, trans, wheels went sideways and I turned turtle....I still have dreams 30 years later. I ened up against a berm over a 200 foot drop on the Angeles Crest Highway.....

So I agree....do some Forensic stuff and see what happened.....

BTW, you gonna fix it, part it, transfer parts or what?

BTW2, glad you and the co-pilot are OK....

OUCH!!! The main thing is that there's no major injuries. What a bummer Mike, especially after all the trouble you've been through with your engine. Major sympathies your and Chris' way.

Glad to hear your OK, sorry about the car and you and your friends injuries.

Hope things turn out well in the long run.

I accidently posted in the wrong thread....


Sorry about the accident. Will this jumpstart a 2.7 in a bus project?

Mike - So Sorry but very glad everyone walked away from it. One thing I didn't read was the weather conditions. Spoken as a true Californian - with 90 degree weather yesterday - was it cold enough for black ice?

Again - cars can be replaced, glad to hear you two are okay. Hang in there and if you need anything let me know.

T

When the time comes, Chris will probably laugh, you will probably laugh a bit less. The really good news is that no one was hurt seriously. But this does bring up a very important issue for us as we head for Summer.

For all the joking we do about our little 100 HP cars, we do drive high performance vehicles that were built before many of the current safety features (i.e. side impact curtains and front air-bags) were included. As such, we need to re-evaluate our vehicles and our driving habits very carefully several times a year. There has been mention of tires not up to temp and extra weight in the car, items which we should all make ourselves aware of.

I worked for about 5 years at Nellis AFB (Las Vegas, NV), supporting multi-national air training missions (Red Flag). Each training segment lasted 2-weeks. On the Monday of week 2, (after the pilots spent the weekend futzing around Las Vegas) the pilots were always brought together in a large debrief room and shown a mandatory 30-minute tape of previous missions where one or more pilots died as a result of losing their situational awareness. As a result of this viewing, air fatalities dropped significantly.

We should spend a few minutes about four times a year reviewing our vehicles and their anticipated performance for the upcoming seasonal weather changes. Additionally, we should take that time to review our driving skills (habits) as well as take a quick inventory of our vehicle's wear points and weaknesses. The less we take for granted, the better chance we have of staying on the pavement.

the inappropriate pink Porsches got a smile from me

Yup, I intend to do some forensics as it is not natural that way it went down. I will be harvesting all the good parts and then taking the body to the scrapper. I have waaaaaaaaay too many good parts to let go and can convert any car in a matter of days with what I have.

sorry dude.

Even if you find something wronge with the car. Always keep in mind condition change by the hour. It dosent take much for the car to react to the changes.
Glad you both are OK Lord knows I drive fast.

Well, I'm glad they made you laugh, sorry again, I just removed them.

I'm so sorry to hear this, but glad nobody seriously injured.

Are you sure it's totalled? I'm sure that we can gather whatever parts you need. If it's in my garage (and not bolted to a car ), it's yours.

-Rusty

OK....let me be the first......



Selling any parts????

We need a "Vulture" icon.....

I plan on keeping anything I can: Wheels, interior, engine, tranny, /6HEs, front suspension, /6 oil tank and parts, steering wheel, gauges, center console, maybe cut off the rear flairs, brake system, battery, circuit board, etc. I will go out to the yard and take pics if I can soon.

OHHHH NO, only things that matters is that you are OK. I don't even no what to say except accidents happen. Don't beat yourself up, it could have been a lot worse. Chris, hope you have a speedy recovery and let us know when you need help. (thanks for the jump on Sat.).

Sounds to me like the road may have been a bit wet or something was on the surface. We have not had rain for awhile and maybe the oil had built up on the road. If you want to shoot down to Philly to put in some wrench time let me know.

That really bites. Glad to hear you're both OK. Wouldn't surprise me a bit if you find a little extra gravel on the road. Had a similar thing happen once, fortunately with less dire results.

Hang in there.

Terrible sheesh.

Here's hope for a speedy recovery.

Glad to hear you're both mostly OK. Sad to hear we lost another teener. My thoughts and prayers are with you!

C:>

dude....
sorry to hear about your misfortune, but thankfully everyone is ok! It was good to see you at Hershey and if you need any parts.. lemme know...
-bob

That really sucks. I can understand the guilt but don't let it eat you up.
On the other hand there's an original 914-6 shell on e-bay. It's got some rust issues of course but it should go pretty cheap.
914-6 Shell in Atlanta

Here are the pics. The temp was 60-65*F and the roads were dry but it did rain hard the previous night.

Coming into turn 1
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Entering into the right hand of turn 1
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Entering left side of turn 1
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In left turn 1
Click to view attachment

Straightaway approaching tight S turn right
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Right turn tight S, very tight
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Directly into a left turn, this is right before it all went bad
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The pole. Notice how far it is from the end of the turn. I am taking this pic from the end of the turn.
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The car

Closer, thats where Chris was sitting

Glad everyone is Ok! I think you and I are the victim of cold tires. Last weekend I took out my front passenger A-arm, tire, and tie rod by sliding into a curb through a traffic circle. Weird weather out in these parts. Last weekend 33 and freezing rain. This weekend 70 and sunny. Now it is 55 and raining.

The troops will ralley for the Doc. Let us know what we can do to help ya!

Wow, I'm really glad your signature didn't have any additions to it...
Glad to hear you're both mostly OK.

Sh!t happens....its how you deal with it and grow from it that demonstrates your character and defines the man you are.

JESUS! thats all the physical damage that was recieved and the car looked like that! You are both lucky as hell. I am glad you are all right. Best of luck in recovery of wit, friendship and body

Josh

GLAD YOU BOTH ARE OK. that was a hit that could have been ....................!

Considering I wasnt going that fast I think that is a lot of damage, but I also think I hit it right on the weakest point and worst point body wise.

More scene pics:

the skid and the pole
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With my back to the pole looking at the path traveled toward it
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Very sad photos

But at least you have an opportunity to get rid of that stupid front bumper

Glad to hear you guys are gonna be ok. With the talent between the two of you, the car can be easily replaced. Get well Chris. Let me know if there is any way I can help.

Geeeez, that looks like it could have been easily a fatality. Did the PD show up and give ya the third degree?

Fuck.

I am off work till wednesday. Lemme know if you want me to come up and pull all the good bits off.

I was really hoping your PM was a joke....

Zach

Fuch Mike...Shit!

Click to view attachment

Elequint aren't I...

I too am glad you are both okay.

That was a nasty hit, the worst kind actually and merely inches (maybe a foot) away from being the perfect storm. Good reminder for all of us...because any of us can make a mistake and pay an equally high (or much higher) price. The good thing is you are here to tell us about it! And thank heavens Chris is gonna be alright.

As for causes, it's almost impossible to tell. 35 mph does not sound very fast for the corners as I see them in your pics (in dry conditions). But then roads differ and what we don't know is the critical having-driven-it part. Corners can be deceptive, pavement adhesion can vary quite a bit, etc. All that said, I'd want to check your suspension mounting points (noting possible impact damage...) as well as your diff (open or lsd), and anything else.

That said, and I say this very respectfully!!!, if you didn't hear anything funny or feel anything suddenly and subtly wiggle in the back before she broke loose, mechanical failure seems unlikely. Given your state of mind as you describe it, which is very similar to how any reasonable person should be when giving a "fun" ride to anyone, it's very strange that you had any problem at all. Other questions: when was your last alignment, any recent suspension changes, any funny shock problems recently, new tires, etc?

I respect your desire to figure out what happened, but know that, on occasion, the input that caused a spin can be very hard to pin down (though there's always a reason!). Other times, it's easy. My last one wasn't. It came while trying to pass a car (that had been blocking me for 3 laps) on track. I couldn't figure out what I did wrong for days (but knew I musta done somethin!). Then a racer, after listening to my frustrating story, told me that I'd probably stopped listening to the car because I was concentrating on the guy in front of me. As soon as he said it, I *knew* he was right. It perfectly explained why I only realized the tail was coming around that split second after it was too late to do anything about it. Oh, there was a warning/I screwed up, but I just wasn't paying attention. It was like I looked down and noticed that the steering lock didn't match all the other feelings I had in the car. But, even as I went to correct, it was just too late.

Were you distracted in the moment? Sounds unlikely, but there's a lot to look at. Too fast for corner/conditions, mechanical, distraction... or maybe something else entirely? What's your skill level, how many times have you been sideways (esp. in a mid-engined car), etc?

pete

One officer arrived and took info. He was very nice and I did not get scolded. I was expecting it, but I was also and am still in disbelief that I did something wrong in that turn. Here is all I got. In the biz we call it a "seatbelt sign".