QUOTE(ConeDodger @ Jun 16 2008, 06:29 PM)
For those of you who don't know what Mike is talking about, yesterday in Central California in an area around a city called Turlock passers-by saw a man beating a toddler. The child was 1-2 years old. They tried to stop him but he pushed them away. They called 911 and a police helicopter landed and when the man continued beating the child the officer shot and killed him...
What happened to that child is indeed unfortunate. I am from Minnesota and the passers-by could not have shot the guy in Minnesota if it had happened there instead of Turlock. Only the child had that right and only if the child had a permit to carry or if he (the child) was on his way to or from his place of business. Even then, the child could only use deadly force if he felt he could not run away. Of course,if the child was inside his own home and was assaulted like that he could have shot the guy there but in Minnesota the passers-by and the child had no more rights than here in California. The States that allow people to carry a weapon, concealed or otherwise without a permit to carry are in the minority.
Blaming California for some loss of rights in that regard is uninformed at best. I am not arguing against the right to own a gun. I am simply presenting reality.
If a passer-by had been carrying a gun and shot that guy I would have joined those who hailed him a hero. He would have gone to jail though, and the point is he would have gone to jail in most States. California is not that bad...
More and more states are adopting reasonable concealed carry laws. It used to be that the majority of states did not allow any type of concealed carry for the average joe, but now it's the other way around. See:
http://www.handgunlaw.us/and a nice graphic of how concealed carry is expanding:
http://www.handgunlaw.us/right-to-carry-history.gifIn many states now it would have been perfectly legal to shoot the suspect in the above incident. Mine included. My state laws say that you do NOT need to attempt to run away. You can use lethal force against any suspect that is committing a violent felony against yourself or another person and you honestly believe that person's life is in danger. In a situation as blatant as the above one, the only way a person that shot the suspect could be prosecuted is if he either didn't have a Concealed Pistol License (CPL) or he was carrying an illegal pistol (like a full auto sub-machine gun or something).
As for our CPL's, we, along with a large majority of states now, are "shall issue." That means that the state HAS to give us a permit to carry, unless they can find a GOOD reason not to. Felonies, restraining orders, dishonorable discharges, and I can't remember what else are the only kinds of things that could disqualify you. You just go to either the courthouse or your local police department, fill out a simple one page form, get your finger prints taken, pay the $60 total for the license and fingerprinting fees, and in ONE MONTH OR LESS, they are REQUIRED to give you a CPL good for 5 years. Renewals are I think $30 or $35 for another 5 years. You are right hardly any states allow carry without a permit (AK is the only one I know of), but it's a LOT easier to get a permit in a normal state than most Californians realize. I don't even carry very often, usually only when I go to the Tacoma Mall (too many gangbanger wannabes there), or walk around Seattle. The point is that I should be allowed to, and more and more people are starting to realize it, much to the dismay of the CA liberals.
Oh, and I'm also a transplant. I'm originally from CA (Escondido and Sacramento), and always wanted to move back because of the weather. Not anymore.