That's bullshit, and you know it. Does anyone offer anything like the claudes buggies competition eliminator heads for the type IV?

I can go to any number of suppliers, like Gene Berg, Autocraft, and Pauter for type I performance parts, where I'm not seeing hardly that level of support for the type IV. There is also a great deal of parts available from claudes buggies for engine accessories, such as the $150 1 5/8" header system for my type 1 which would cost well over a grand for any type IV car.

Jake, I give you a heads-up that calling people "smart asses" will get you a reaction, so you respond by upping the ante to "ugly" smart asses? Why are you trying to provoke a fight?

And could I point out something else? You say "all" T1 parts are from China, but not all the parts mentioned by Chris are made in China. And everything on that list is high quality, no matter where it comes from. There's lots of T1 crap from China, it's true, but there's lots of high quality things from all over, too. Lots more than for T4 engines. The customer gets a choice, and that's not a bad thing. Is it?

Because someone is wrong, ON THE INTERNET!

( reference: http://xkcd.com/386/ )

If I thought it was bullshit I would not have posted it- its a fact.

Autocraft has made TIV heads in the past, Pauter still does and so does Scat with their split port heads. In Europe Engine Plus also offers something similar. I also have a couple of options that flow the same or better than a set of CE heads at full prep and if the price comparison is made at equal levels of prep its almost the same.. The prices advertised in the mags are usually "base models" and much cheaper than full prep.

And remember the C/E head only has SIX cooling fins and none of those surround the exhaust port. What good does making power do if the engine becomes heat soaked and that power level can't be maintained? Please compare apples to apples, but thats impossible with the Ti Vs TIV battle. I know because I have been fighting that battle for 15 years.

The TI stuff is dirt cheap because of volume... and the fact that hardly any of it is made in the USA, or Germany. Its all coming from Brazil and Mexico, and of course China and it's distributed generally by companies with low quality standards and sold to others that generally are also expecting low quality. Today the majority of TIV parts are made in the USA or Europe and remain excellent quality.

For every 1 TIV thats on the road, there are 100 Type 1s and thats been the way it has been forever, since the engines were new.... That can't be changed.

Today a much more streamlined group of Enthusiast exist that want something that can't be bought in a catalog for a dirt cheap price, thats why the majority of those I deal with are north of 50 years of age and are tired of playing the games. They have been around long enough to know that quality and low price don't go together and they are ready to just drive their damn car without worrying about issues that could pop up on a cross country drive..



Never heard that figure of sepeech before?? if someone is a smart ass, I don't give a damn what they look like- I treat them all the same.

At any rate, maybe a smart ass won't pop up- maybe my statement kept them at bay... they usually pop up by now!

Didn't mean to piss anybody off.

I think you're gonna need to do a fact check there. Both the street eliminator heads and the competition eliminator heads ran wide open for 2000 miles across mexico in the La Carrera Panamericana and looked brand new afterwards, no heat issues. If there is a better heat test than that, I'd like to see it.

I don't see how this isn't an apples to apples comparison. Performance aftermarket heads can make or break an engine combination, and these are cheap and readily available from claudes buggies.

Jake, you said "everything bought for the TI is made in China, with at best bottom flor level quality" which is simply not a true statement. Where it's made is irrelevant anyway. If it works well and lasts it's a good part, no matter where it comes from.

And calling anyone who doesn't agree with you a "smart ass" to provoke a fight is a really smart ass thing to do.

I know, marketing, marketing, marketing. I know it works, but I still don't like it.

Sorry Gint, the way this is going I don't think you're going to get the answer to your question. And it wasn't THAT complicated a question...

I apologize for assisting with the thread hi jacking that has occurred here. I will refrain from taking it further by responding to Chris or DB Cooper.

I will email a couple of recent customers and ask them for their price tallies for some simple rebuilds, it might give Gint some insight.

I am doing another motor, a 105 x 82 = 2840, some of the prices are due to good timing & good shopping.

Crank new DPR 82mm 2.0 ltr jrl - $350
Rods Chinese 5.5" 2.0 ltr jrl's - $300
Cam Pauter $135
Lifters used Type 1 free, but had them surfaced - $15
Cyl's 104.9mm new from club member $80
Cyl's honed to 105mm $65
Pistons 105mm used $25
Pins Casidium $22.50
Rings JE new $32.50
Case machine work around $200 ish
Main, rod & cam bearing's & gaskets around $120

Heads, 2.0 ltr's the most expensive single item complete rework, about $600
Retainers used Ford $7.50
Springs used ford $4.99
Guides new C.H.E. $7.50
Valves Tit $10
Seats Exh Berilium Copper $10
Int seats, will have to have them made $?

Labor $1,000,000
Total $1,984.99

The Pistons,Pins, Rings, Retainers, Springs, Guides, Valves, Seats, prices are 1/2 of what I paid, since all this stuff are V-8 items, bought on Ebay, so still have the rest of the set for another build.

The DPR crank was bought several years ago, when the rod options were only the expensive one's other than stock, so they were not that popular, hence the reason I got it for a good price. The rest of the items were bought over time, knowing they would eventually be used.

Fuel system, Exhaust & Ignition, are not part of the engine build, so not included.

Some of the items are from other motors, and get moved to the new build, but the price was still paid at some point, but in my case the Total price is not the actual price for this build, due to the parts carried over from previous builds.

Thanks, Jake. That would help a lot.

Here is what I spent to build my 2270cc engine. Most of the parts are from the Type 4 store and I started the project before the kits became available. Of course this is just the internals, this did not include any of the costs for my Exhaust, Induction, Cooling, Clutch ect.

LE 200 Heads $2100.00 Type 4 Store
96mm Biral Barrels $650.00 Ebay
96mm Cast Pistons $265.00 Type 4 Store
78.4mm stroke c/w crank $530.00 Type 4 Store
Type 1 Billet Rods 5.4” $340.00 Type 4 Store
Custom Camshaft $180.00 Type 4 Store
Modified Cam Gear $ 42.00 Type 4 Store
Manton push rods $ 52.00 Type 4 Store
Pushrod Tubes $ 25.00 Ebay
Main Bearings $ 52.00 Type 4 Store
Rod Bearings $ 22.00 Type 4 Store
Gasket Kit $ 45.00 Ebay
Rear main Seal Viton $ 10.00 EBS Racing
Cam Bearings $ 11.00 EBS Racing
Type 1 30mm oil pump $ 50.00 Gene Berg
Oil Pump Cover $ 10.00 Type 4 Store
Oil Strainer $ 12.00 Type 4 Store
Rocker Arm Spacers $ 25.00 Type 4 Store
.090” Cylinder Shims $ 70.00 Type 4 Store
Curil K2 Sealant $ 15.00 Type 4 Store
Curil T Sealant $ 15.00 Type 4 Store
Dirko Sealant $ 15.00 Type 4 Store
Camshaft Oil Plug $ 4.00 Type 4 Store
Intermediate Balancing $180.00 Type 4 Store
Machine work on Case $150.00 Local Machine Shop

Total Engine Parts/labor: $4870.00 (your costs may vary)

Contrast with my recent turn key 2270 Performer version that cost a nominal $10 grand, plus miscellaneous extras, crating, shipping, etc.

Click to view attachment

Start of the week, weekday

Richard and Dominic - Thanks! That's exactly what I'm looking for.

Anybody else? What happened to... I think it's Mr. Kona? He was documenting a rebuild and had a thread here. I'm sure he's collected the costs of his rebuild.

Mike,
If I can find my receipt from Moyle, I'll gladly send you a copy.

Cool. I'd appreciate it. Post it here.

Gint-

I just put together a spreadsheet documenting some different options for the rebuild I am doing on my camper (just found out it is a GEX), I can email it to you. I just guessed on the machining costs for the skimp rebuild, I'm sure I am off in both directions. End result, with the level I was willing to skimp, the price difference between skimping and Jake's camper special kit is about $1400 (skimp - 2400, kit - 3780 both including some rough estimates on shipping). A more thorough rebuild closes that difference to about $800-$1000. This is looking at different vendor prices as well (aircooled.net, germansupply.com). I'm sure you can find cheaper elsewhere but I trust those vendors to provide quality. My decision, go with the camper special. With the reliability I want I would be looking at a savings of 800-1000 bucks and I know what Jake is going to send me will be excellent. Plus the headaches of dealing with the machine work will be lessened, support through Jake is good, etc. Not trying to sound like an ad, I was surprised when I finally sat down and crunched the numbers.

Of course the 914 will be different but my guess is that the spread will be similar.

I doubt I will regret my decision, especially when I travel out of the 100 mile AAA safety net. This isn't to say that I will always go with one of Jake's kits, I think compiling something yourself is definitely gratifying and I have some ideas for things I want to build myself. I do think that one of his kits is much more reasonable though than some might imagine.

-Chris

i think joe summed it up. (2500-4000) i basically built a 2056 from scratch thru researching and buying quility used/rebuilt/rebuilable parts (like o.e. cylinders for boring). along with the obvious new stuff needed. it took forever but worth it. i counted everything spent and put out $4500.

thought i'd post this here....

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAP...WNA:MOTORS:1123

what a deal! you can't do this for anywhere near that $... 2 hrs to go

mike

Just when you thought the thread hijacks were over...

but i did it for you gint.

Didn't mean to come off like such a downer. I appreciate the thought. But I'm looking for costs of individual parts and labor for machining operations associated with a Type IV rebuild.