Just thought I would post up a quick picture of my newest project.



Its a '75 that I will be building for the $2009 Challenge. There is no engine now, and I am still trying to figure out what I will be using.

I think about 200hp should be good enough if I can keep the weight down. I figure I have about $750 for engine and cooling system (or preferably a parts car that I can get everything from).

What do you guys think? What are my best options? Who has cheap parts they want to sell to help the cause

I'll update this as I progress.

if you use a non type 4 engine - you will run into conversion parts cost.

turbo and 1.7 type 4.

I already have budgeted the $550 for the Kennedy adapters, and that is not included in the $750 i listed.

What kind of power can you get out of a turbo type IV, and how much will it cost me to get it. If i went that way I would have $1300 to spend, but would prefer to put more into suspension stuff. So what could I get out of one (plus the purchase of the motor) for $1000.

Serious question.

How long does the motor need to live?
Can you run on race fuel?

If you are talking about 4 drag races and 4 runs in an autox...then the car show I would say build a carbed 2.4 liter (71*103mm) and put it at 10.5:1 or 11:1 compression.
With heads at 46*38mm valves and the rest can be stock (dont yell Jake)

that will get you around 150-180 hp if done right..200hp if you have the right heads and camshaft.

It will be a tweeked motor that will run for the weekend.

I had a similar motor, 71*103 with 13:1 that dynoed at 209 hp...
Its a screamer and it lasted a season.

Rich

For the purposes of the competition it only needs to last that long, but I would like to test the car before the event, and enjoy it afterwards.

I guess I never really considered the type iv I just assumed I would be swapping. If it is viable, and at least semi reliable (I dont want to be working on just keeping it running the entire weekend. I've been there and done that with FSAE in college ), then I am open to it if the price is right.

you wont be able to stay on budget with anything else...

You might be able to do a v8 for cheap if you find a free motor.
Radiator can be sourced from a miata, a watercooled bus, a toyota previa van, and a few others...they are small enough to fit.

The v8 may trash your transmission unless you rebuild it with the right gearing ($$$$$)

That is why I suggested a type 4 motor..

With the 914 transmission figure the drag race is a no win situation...unless you spend 10k on a tranny, it will blow.
Autox, type 4 will beat most cars.
Car show...all up to you how clean it is.
Rich

How long do you want/need it to last?

You'll need to hack/bend up some sort of exhaust and flange to mount the turbo. For a rat rod git-r-done type of deal, I'd move the battery to the trunk, and mount the turbo up in that area. The stock EFI will laugh at you then run lean and hole a piston, no way it can deal with positive manifold pressure. Doing this on the cheep, I'd do a draw thru carb set up. Its very old school, but should keep you under $2009. If the event is run in warmer temps, that will help you out, as the draw thru systems don't work well in colder temps. Since you can't use an intercooler with a draw thru system, I'd rig up a cheep water injection system to keep the charge temps down. The T-IV pistons have the rings mounted way up high on the piston, which will expose them to alot of the pressure of the boost when things heat up in the cyl, so keeping things cool will go along way toward keeping the motor together and the ring lands from cracking.

How much boost?

How long do you want/need it to last.

I've read on Jake's forums of guys running up to 20psi on stock internals, but the pistons don't last. And they have a ton of motor cooling and intercooling. And $$$ in the project. If you want it to last for exactly 1 weekend, and you're willing to take a 50/50 bet if it'll even last that long, go for 20 psi and let us know how far the pieces go when it scatters. Longer term use, shoot for 10psi, and if you want to push your luck, go for 15. If they run the autox before the drags, maybe run 15 for the cones, and bump to 20 and some NOS for the drag...

How much power will that all be? No clue. Never got mine to a dyno last year.

How much cost?

What are your options for the exhaust system? Can you scare up some tubing, cut and weld on your own, or do you need to farm this out? Lets say 100 in materials for tubing/flange material. 50-200 for a used turbo. Look for a small one, like the front or back turbo off a mitzu 3000gt, a 9B turbo. Another couple hundred for a side draft carb of some sort. If you're using the stock 914 fuel pump, a regulator to dial down the fuel pressure. $500 bucks and alot of imagination might do it, with some sharp shopping and lots of free labor.

With my built motor I'm looking to make 15psi, but also to make it for a good long time. I have no interest in dropping the motor every winter to re-re-re build it again. I'm building the long block around the idea of making the most airflow I can at low rpms so I can spool the turbo quicker, and let the turbo make the power beyond that. More interested in torque than HP. I'm running a 3000gt turbo, and on a stock 2.0 motor, boost started by 2500, was all in by 3500 or so, and pulled hard to the 10psi boost cut. If I make 200/200 at the wheels, I'd be pretty happy, but I'll build it and see what I end up with, and whatever that is, it'll be better than what it is now. I'd love to see 10psi by 2500, and 15 by 3500.

All this is very contrary to what I'm doing with my turbo car- stand alone ecu, ITB's, and now a boost friendly Raby motor, but for a fast ride on warm days for $2009 or less, I'd google up and research a draw thru set up, and spend more $$ on suspension and tires than motor.

If you're going turbo T-IV.

***edit: turbo T-IV forum: http://forums.aircooledtechnology.com/forumdisplay.php?f=34

***edit: draw thru turbo on a buggy: http://www.smbaker.com/rail/monsterturbovw.html

Ok so you think about $500 dollars shopping smart to turbocharge a type IV. I would also need to buy an engine, so maybe $800, and you don't think it will be reliable.

I'm still keeping my options open. I'm more familiar with the Subaru engines, but finding one on the cheap and making it perform is pretty hard (not impossible, but hard).

I picked up a 2002 Subie 2.5L N/A engine and 5 speed for $600.
However, like some else said the $$$ is in the conversion parts!
Magic flanges $500, VW Bus axles $220, Bremar 2WD conversion parts $325...

And the beat goes on...

Good luck!
(look for sponsors)

good thread - http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=40733

it seems you can also supercharge a type 4.

http://thekneeslider.com/archives/2005/11/...red-motorcycle/

i agree - subaru power is great - high mpg and light weight.

search craigslist for used imprezas and legacys - they can be found cheap from time to time. ideally a fwd 5spd - so 1993 or earlier.

if you use the sub trans - you could weld the inner half of the sub axle assy to outter half of the 914 axle assy.

jim

If I remember right, you can sell off parts to get back half your $2009, so your budget is actually more like $3014...

I'd be looking for a crashed Subie, take what you need, and part the rest out to get some money back into the budget. A Subie conversion done right is expensive, this one doesn't need to be done right.

You have a shot at the auto-x, but realistically, all you can hope for in the drag is to do well... so make it pretty for the concours!

Yeah things will add up, but I might be able to do it cheaper. I have some connections in the Subaru world. If I can do without the magic flanges by doing what Jim mentions below (which I was just talking with my friend about doing), and the conversion kit if I find a FWD gearbox.

I am currently talking with a shop about sponsoring me. It will help with money out of my pocket, but anything I get for free or cheaper I still have to list on my budget at fair market value.



As I said I was just talking with a friend about doing just that.



You can only sell back as much as you spend for a max of half the budget. It can still be done right for cheap, just not in the conventional way.

I am hoping to do well in the autocross. The drag race is only worth a small part of the total dynamic time (they add the autocross and drag time together to get the dynamic time), so there is very little room to make anything up there.

do these spin the right way?

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/cto/978984320.html

probably get the engine for $900.

What about a NA Subaru 2.5 with a FWD transmission. I can cut the axles to the 914 and Subaru, machine them and weld together (as was discussed above). For the engine I would use reground higher lift cams (from Delta Camshaft), shave the head for higher compression, run WRX injectors, and a high flow pump, and feed it with E85. E85 will work well with the higher compression and allow me to run more timing (using a piggyback EMS). It will also run cooler than with gas.

I think I can do this within the budget and make maybe 200-220hp.

What are magic flanges???
Will they make me look thinner?
Rich

I didn't realize that was how they scored. Cool. I thought (actually, I didn't put any thought into it at all) they were weighted equally.

What I meant is that it doesn't need to be a well sorted reliable daily driver. It only needs to run for a minute at a time, so a marginal cooling system would be okay, for example.

Magic Flanges thanks to Porcharu (Steve)
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Thanks Zaney. I have seen those, but the price is nearly the price of an adapter from KEP. I woul just weld the two sets of axles together (Subie inner, 914 outer) to make it work for me.

And thanks Todd. I knew what you meant I was just kidding.

That's what I'm talkin' about! Grassroots!

And I'd think that a Subie automatic would make the linkage a WHOLE lot easier... hell, you could just leave it in drive and have NO linkage.

If you are gunning for auto-x, be sure to budget for springs and swaybars. You could probably fab your own adjustable front swaybar. Weld the ends on after you install the bar. Might consider home-made coil overs vs. torsion bars, might save some $$$.

Good idea with the front sway bar!! I was trying to figure out how I could fit one in with my budget (though there seem to be deals in the classified section sometimes).

With the Subie engine and trans I will probably have some extra money to mess with suspension stuff. I was trying to figure out if there was a away to convert the front to coils cheaply. Still running through some stuff in my head

Serious question.

How long does the motor need to live?
Can you run on race fuel?

If you are talking about 4 drag races and 4 runs in an autox...then the car show I would say build a carbed 2.4 liter (71*103mm) and put it at 10.5:1 or 11:1 compression.
With heads at 46*38mm valves and the rest can be stock (dont yell Jake)

that will get you around 150-180 hp if done right..200hp if you have the right heads and camshaft.

It will be a tweeked motor that will run for the weekend.

I had a similar motor, 71*103 with 13:1 that dynoed at 209 hp...
Its a screamer and it lasted a season.

Rich
[/quote]

I have been concidering a short stroke large displacement engine ala Ferrari style.

Is there more info on this 200 hp motor?

Could a 150 - 180 hp motor last longer for street use only?

Any thoughts?

Got some work done this weekend. It is getting lighter (and better looking) now.

I ended up with this





and this





Now to sell some parts to make up my budget

How much for the Harley?

Sorry not for sale it is going to be restored. Was my roommate's mom's first vehicle.

How about the center console? and what sorts of parts are you in need of?

Where's a link to the rules? are you allowed to trade for parts? how would that effect your budget ratings, doing direct trades?

Here are the rules

Rules

As far as I know trades are ok because it is fair market value for fair market value.

I have created a classified post here

Parts for Sale

Picked this up yesterday. Seems to run good. Started fine and drove it into the trailer. I'll have $00.00 in it after the sale of the wheels and glass. May even make some money when I sell the body for scrap.
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Bob

Nice an SVX. I'm hoping to be able to do the same with the donor car I'm getting as well.

Why not think about buying a VW Passat for it's 1.8t engine and transmission. (ya, the engine is mounted front to rear in the passat, not side to side.) They have lots of hop-up parts.

Wes

Somebody else mentioned this to me Wes, and even offered a Passat turbo trans for cheap, but I was not able to find an engine that would fit into my budget.

After some searching I've found a donor car for most of my drivetrain. I originally was looking for an early 90s legacy 2.2/FWD, and thought I had a lead on one, but when I went to look at the car it was automatic. Luckily this was at a Subaru Dealer/Junkyard, and the guy had a 1994 Impreza wagon 1.8/FWD.

Obviously this wasn't ideal because I need the 2.2 heads for my engine. He also wanted too much for the car after he was going to strip parts he wanted. So I worked out a deal in which I would strip the parts for him and bring them back if he threw in a set of 2.2 heads and dropped the price.

Walked away with this beauty for $200

Well the Impreza is stripped and gone. Made more than we paid for it so we are still good on the budget. Now the real work on the 914 can start.

Impreza on the way to the scrap yard.





I know there are still more good parts on it, but we don't have time (or space) to keep it around and pick parts off of it.

Mid-engined?



Have to protect yourself.



It was kind of funny the guy at the scrap yard said, "You guys are scrapping a nicer car than the ones I used to run."

Nice score on the 94' Impreza! Our project car is gonna be using the EJ22e. Keep us updated on how you're gonna do the engine harness wiring.

Things have been a bit slow. I had to finish up working on my DD so this got put on hold.

This is how the car sits now.



All the suspension and steering is off





I have sourced a 2.5 engine from a 2001 Forester



Here is all the wiring/intake from the 94 Impreza donor car, and the transmission is in the front trunk.





I went to the Hershey Porsche Swap Meet and got a gas pedal for $10, but the best part was when I bought it the guy gave me a cracked fiberglass front bumper for FREE!!! Also picked up a spare wheel for $30 in case I can't straighten the lip on one of the ones that came with the car (this won't count toward the challenge budget unless I use it).

Hopefully rust repair will start this weekend. We are going to get creative with our reuse of some metal we cut out of the car in other areas to use as patch panels. Saves money (and the environment. We are being green )

On another note, they sure do put enough under coat on these things don't they?

So just how old is that first pic (on the trailer)?

I can't remember when I last saw buck fifty seven gas

Just after this past Chrstmas.

Nascar bars show up on ebay all the time, you can get a beefy front for under $100 full roller bearings and mono ball joints etc. You just need fab skills. I have 150 in both my front and rear bar. The post on how I built them is in hte paddock, and well, they work just great. Farmer parts are your friend. Springs go with 2.5" or 2.25" units and modif you spring pearches. You can get them new for $30 - 50 a pop.

You will want a set of cheap BOGE shocks, hydralic units ,and swap them in before hte drag race portion. Saggy stocks springs are your friends also. Don't forget a second set of wheels and tires for hte drags. Narrow fronts 135, hard as a rock, and wide fat stickes out back with a soft side wall.

on the cheap

use the tranny,, take out the diff and weld the gears together, sell the diff!!

use the nose cone to fab the back plate

5-$20 mr2 shifter

fab the cable shifter,,,find used boxster cablles cheap $20

do the wire harness your self

use the subaru fuel pump assembly and mount into 914 gas tank..

sleeve and weld the axles......

we've looked at most of this and its do able.. We are doing some of it!!!


I COULD TYPE AND SPELL BETTER IF I HAD MY GLASSES!!!!!!!!!!

good luck

Great progress...really wish we picked up a Subaru Legacy donor car for our project. These two donor cars on craigslist are tempting: http://losangeles.craigslist.org/lgb/cto/1203189239.html http://losangeles.craigslist.org/wst/cto/1208664382.html :/

I'm doing my conversion on the cheap also. I've got my engine from the SVX I posted earlier mounted and getting real close to starting it up. I figure after I sell the donar car at the pick and pull. I'll have $850 total into the converson. I really think buying the complete running car is the way to go on a conversion. I have used more things from the donor than I ever thought.
Bob

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Thanks for all the input guys.

914forme and d914,
We think alike (at least on most points ). You will see many of your suggestions on the finished car. The donor car I bought was FWD so I don't have to worry about any of the welding and making the blockoff to eliminate the center subaru diff. I also have no problem with doing any of the wiring, as I have already done a Subaru swap (although it was into another Subaru, 07 WRX into 98 2.5RS).

dlo914,
It is definitely easier if you get a whole donor car as you will use a lot of parts and if you have to buy them at a dealer it is going to be a lot more expensive (of course you could find most things a junk yard as well).

Both those cars look like a decent choice, but see if you can find a FWD car and you eliminate the conversion kit price as well. FWD was available on the early 90s legacys as well as the imprezas.

BIGKAT_83,
Looking very good. Looks super clean. Also looks like our cars are the same color. Did you cut the trunk floor out of the car? If so did you brace things once you did that? Best of luck to you. This is also a challenge car correct?

On the floor I cut a small 1"x2" opening for the clutch fork rod. Its right at the front of the trunk and plan to cover it with a cover. That the only hole in the trunk floor.
I mounted a pull type slave cylinder for the clutch and used a wilwood master. I came up with a neat way to mount the master if your using the old 914 suspension crossbar. I installed the master cylinder in less than a hours work. This compares with 2 days for my other clutch conversion with a aluminum cross bar.
It did have to cut the rear bulk head for the throttle body and MAF tube. I'll also make a cover for this.

Bob

Well the project is being pushed to 2010 and $2010 Challenge. Not because I need the extra dollar but some other things came up and have pushed things back. I might have been able to finish it but it wouldn't be to the quality that I want.

I also got a couple ideas of some unique things to do that I should have more time to do now.

I'll keep you updated as things progress.

Check out the $500 challenge my brother and I did.
4000 miles in an Ice Cream Van acoss Africa. All the while giving away free Ice Cream!
www.creamytreats.com
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I just picked up a 75 teener for my $2010 GRM Challenge car. I have an EJ20G drivetrain ready to go in. I will be cutting it close with the budget.

Hope to see you there! Look for "The Dirty Penny."

I will be starting my own thread shortly.

let me be the first

EJ20G on a challenge budget, yeah I'd say that would be tight

Good luck with that.

Well its been a while but I'm finally back in full swing working on the 914. Over the past week I have gotten some tubing, sheet metal, and have started fixing the rust in the engine compartment (hell hole). I also remembered that I still needed to get the heads that were owed to me and should be picking them up in the coming week (whenever I get down that way again) so I can send the cams out to be reground.

The last weekend of April I went to the Porsche swap meet in Hershey again, and this time walked away with free (with one stipulation) shocks.

The rears were given to another forum member, so he passed them on to me. The fronts were for sale, but I was told if no one bought them by the end of the day I could have them for a beer. I wasnt' going to dinner with the group so I asked what he wanted for them, and he said if I put his art company's sticker on the car, and sent him a picture that would be good. So the front's cost me a sticker, and taking a picture.

5/6/2010



Took the rockers off, and about 2-3 pounds of dirt and rust came out.

The "Hell hole"









Free Shocks


Tubing for bracing and engine/tranny mounts


5/8/2010

Rusted through metal has been removed, need to clean up and weld in the patch panels (My welder crapped out. I am trying to find a part, but if I can't the el cheapo, no-name will be going, and replaced with a new Miller or Lincoln.) This isn't going to be a concours correct car, but all the gaps should be filled in.








Also started taking the dash apart. Want to get rid of some unneeded electrics (hey, it's all extra weight at this point), and take the dash pad off to remove the cracked vinyl.


Also took out all the HVAC stuff. You would be suprised how much that stuff weighs. Might put just the defrost back in if time/budget allows.

After some thinking, and being realistic with myself, the car is now for sale.

Wow...look at those fuel prices on the first page!