Yep, I've done that myself. Was just trying to be fancy this time.

One of my new (to me) trans out put flanges is 1mm small here. I'm going to add a shim to get rid of the slop
Click to view attachment

I agree the CV grease/build job is a filthy one. But it's a part of regular maintenance with racing or regular track use in my opinion. An occasional regrease can make your CVs last nearly forever and avoid a failure. CV failure can be really ugly sometimes!

OEM CV cages are rather brittle and can break, plus the fit is rather tight in new CVs. Some polishing on the races and use of a chromoly cage makes them almost bulletproof. That said, use of a high end grease is key to them lasting. The "stock" grease like the tube from GKN with a new CV is junk. The grease goes thin right away due to the tight fit (creates heat) & the grease itself is a cheap economy EP grease.

I've seen the 928 derived CV grease caps. The late 930 CV (85.5-89) and 85.5-86 915, and all G50 use those caps. I've got 'em on my '87 911 and they're a nice feature vs. those pesky gaskets. But the 75-85 915 and thru-84 930 don't have the grease caps and both of those stubs have the relieved area for the CV cage/balls. See this tech bulletin for the switch from 100 to 108





I guess my point is, the dune buggies with severe angularity & loading like these

http://www.appletreeauto.com/TYPE-1-TO-930...-AXLE-AC525100/

don't use stubs with reliefs but the factory Porsche stubs do? That seems odd. I can see the VW stubs have a deep bell to allow for more plunge. But that would lead me to believe the additional plunge would warrant some reliefs on the periphery of the stub axle flange. Apparently not.....

See my warning about this size issue above. Get the correct ones. A shim won't work (for long). It's a critical fit and the shim will get beat to death..... but that's just my opinion as a machinist

I will post over @ pelican and see what comes up

David

This is my solution, the late model G50 CV's that I have modified to accept the stock grease seal
The CV material was very hard (flame hardened) and could only be cut with carbide tooling.
I'll stick a length of rod in the 2 extra bolt holes to capture the roll pins, I may have to spread the roll pin slightly to ensure a tight fit in the CV.
Other than that it should fit like stock '74 CV's now, it will no longer need the 928 grease cap.

I think this might be a winter project of mine...been a LOOONG time since the axles have been serviced.
Question: Where do I find the CV gaskets? I'm sure if I looked hard I could find them, but it's easier to just ask...

CV Gaskets? Pretty common for say... a 1970 911.

Yes this is the stock 10mm 911 CV gasket.
If you look at the chart above the 1974 911 CV and the later G50 CV are almost the same, except the G50 doesn't have the gasket seal relief cut into it. The G50 uses the 928 grease cap, but that will not fit in the early 911 stubs.

The roll pin area of the stub you can keep it 4 bolt and 2 pins or it will have to be drilled and taped for the two extra bolts.

Instead of machining the CV and using the gasket, why not apply some sealant to the exterior of the joint after it's assembled? Reason I suggest that is because the gaskets tend to compress over time and allow the clamping force to be lessened, sometimes quite a lot. Just a thought.

so...got a question here...
I took apart all my CV joints, and they are all junk. balls and cages are scored. and the top plates (where the collar for the boots are) are beat to hell. So, I was just going to replace the entire CV joint, but if I read this correctly, PP sells them for $251 EACH!! P/N 911-332-032-02
But...if I get a complete axle, that comes with both CV joints, boots, etc. it's only $234 P/N 901-332-026-11

On PP: http://www.pelicanparts.com/catalog/shopca..._SUSaxl_pg1.htm

What I can't figure out is...are these the right parts? It seems that the CV's (and top plates) are 6 bolt, not 4 bolt if you look at the pictures. (assuming the pics are correct)

Here's another thing...what I have in the car are stock 911 size axles. I think it's because we have different stub axles at the transmission - they stick out much more than normal (longer). Its what's always been on the car since we upgraded to 5 lug. What this means is...I can buy stock 911 full axle assembies. Question is...which ones?

So what I need are: 108 mm 4 bolt CV on stock 911 length axles. I guess the quick question is: is the picture on PP accurate?

You're looking for the 1974 to mid-75 CV
The single price is outrageous.
Buy the whole half-shaft and press off the CV's and re- install them on the proper shaft.
http://www.pelicanparts.com/cgi-bin/smart/...%2535%2529%2520

Or cheaper is the late model G50 CV, but you have to drill and tap the stubs for the extra bolts (2 each CV) or do the mod I did.
I'll warn you on the trick I did, the CV's are hard as hell to cut in the seals and will add cost if you can't DIY.
I also did the mod my way (4 bolt/two roll pin/with gasket) and cut a relief to accept the gasket, without the gasket (the 6 bolt/no gasket method) may leak grease.
http://www.pelicanparts.com/cgi-bin/ksearc...-332-923-01-M60

You must be using an adapter if you're using the 911 shaft, post some pic's so we can see what you have.

According to PP, (and other suppliers) the 69-mid 75 are the same...

No adapters
Top picture is my trans, bottom stock. See how the stub axle has a much bigger 'flange' than the stock one?

Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment

Pull out a bolt and see if it has a point/tit on the end. (post a pic)
Then pull stub out and post a pic of the input of the stub.

Don't turn the transmission stubs or input shaft when doing this.

If it does have a tit it's an early diff and they are not as strong as the later diff's. Also it could have the stubs from an early 911-901 and they are not good for a HP application.
I ran into this issue with an earlier 911-901 for my bug.

sorry I didn't see this....

Sealant can be done, but it would be a PITA keep the grease off the sealant as you assembled the CV.
The way the gasket relief works it is still bolting steel to steel, the gasket sits in the relief.

Complete Axles:

http://www.pmbperformance.com/catalog/item...068/7781410.htm

Erc- what is your guess on the HP/torque rating of these? Thx.

Eric
What is the difference between them and 911-332-033-09? (which is what I meant to reference above in post #61, not the axle I listed) Looking at yours, it looks like 6 bolt too...

Mark
Diff is Guards LSD.

These are the stubs axles...and complete axles/CV's to be honest... that have been on the car for many, many years...converted to 5 lug back in mid 90's and never have changed anything to be honest...

Any way to just get all the bearings/cages for the CV's?? I can just put it all back together with new bearings/cages/races...

All the inner races have issues like this....didn't even bother cleaning off the bearings..


Click to view attachment

Thanks for the thoughts on what I mentioned. My thinking was applying the sealant after you've got the axles bolted in. Wipe off the grease, put some masking tape around the joint on each side. Put some sealant on there and then peel off the tape. Sounds easy but that's assuming the axles stay in place for a while. If the axles are occasionally removed, the sealant is a PITA.

Sealant in general is easy to do on the trans side. Not so easy on the trailing arm/wheel side!

Bob review posts #37 and # 44 of this thread...I want you to pull a stub and compare the shaft to a stock /4 stub. The early stub will work, but a lot of it is unsupported and could eventually fail. If it failed it would take out your diff.

Mark, will have to wait till the weekend when I can get up to the shop. Not sure where you're going with this? What stubs are you thinking these are? They have been on this car in an all track/race environment for over 15 years now with an engine that's now over 350 hp and never had an issue...

If I remember correctly, they are much "beefier" than the ones on the spare trans I have, I'll have to check and take pictures.

FYI, these were not out on by me, they were from my race mechanic at the time...

It's easy when you leave the stub-axle attached to the CV/axle and just remove the outer nut... comes out whole. I haven't used gaskets in more years than I can remember. But it does take care to keep the fields apart.

I've used 914, 911, and 930 CV's with various axles. I'd use 108's except the weight difference is huge. I've now stuck with 944 CV"s (100's) and leave it at that as my (IMHO) balance between weight/longevity.

But I'm only sportin' 270hp.

Good luck!

Mark
Just re-read what I wrote and it sounded a bit defiant..wasn't meant to be, I was typing on my iPhone.... My only plan for this project was originally to just re-pack/clean up the CV's, not redesign the entire axle set up. What I have has worked for many years, so much so that this is the first time I've ever even given them a thought. Since I found that my CVs are toast, I just want to replace what's needed.... If that means new complete axle assemblies so I can get the CVs (and the cheapest solution) then that's what I'll do.

But, in the interest of discovery and learning, I'll try to get the stubs off this weekend and post pics with measurements...

I didn't even read this till now...not answering right away I wasn't mad or anything...I was out for the evening.

Good point about removing the outer nut at the stub axle & doing the sealant gig w/the stub axle on the bench. Thanks for the slapjack upside the head to jostle my occasional one-track-mind perspective!

No, you can see the two pins sticking out clearly in the photo so, 4 bolts, 2 pins.

This is the only way I know of to get the 4 bolt 911 CV's now. Buy the complete axle and replace with the free floating Sway-a-Way axle.



Nope. Check Mark's pictures earlier in this thread. Some "Sporto" flanges are longer.

Ok some pics on thisfirst it's not just a "sporto' flange as the 1969 and earlier had the longer flange as well

BTW sorry about the focus on the first couple of pics...Sir Andy taught me how to use the camera.

Left to right 914/4, 1970 911 108mm with 10mm bolts, 1969 "sporto" style

Difference in shaft lengths between the 1970 901 flange and the "sporto" flange

This is the 1970 911/901 flange sitting in a 914-901 diff. Note the pencil, the flange sits down flush against the diff at the bearing carrier. There actually is a couple thousands clearance.
BTW the 914/4 flange sits down exactly the same as in this pic.

This is the "sporto" (1969 901) flange sitting in the same 914-901 diff. notice the large gap. I also noticed the later bolt doesn't catch as many threads.

Oh.... and a bit of axle porn.

Fully loaded and ready to go.
The 928 end caps are just on there temporary to keep things clean.

One question I have and I guess I should email Swayaway

Are they directional?
I notice that the one axle is marked "R" and the other one "L", both are only marked on one end.
I know left and right... I'm guessing left outside and right outside?

If you look at my axles the green tape is telling which end is marked, so I don't have to go digging in the new grease to find the marks later.

Yes the Swayaway axles are directional. Got an reply from Swayaway.

The end stamp and the L/R must be placed on the correct side and facing out.
The axles do have a definite twist that must be correctly orientated.

Mark,

What did you end up using for an end-cap for the G50 CVs?

What part fit?

Read through this thread and understand the options discussed.
I think I found another option. Using VW Bus CV joints (100 MM) on 914 axles with 911 100mm stub axles, 911 hubs and 911 output flanges. Tried a bus CV I had and it fits on the 914 axle. Bus CV's are about $50 each for Lobro and less modification is needed.

Huh uh huh uh, he said Schnorr.

You can't use the end caps, although I did use the 928/G50 end caps in the pics to keep my uninstalled, cleaned, loaded and greased axle/CV assembles clean. I will remove the 928 end caps when I install the axles.

I cut my CV's for the factory grease seal/gaskets, but the CV material is hard as hell and I went through several carbide tool inserts. In retrospect I'd just leave the seals out and use a good sealant instead.

Great info!
Thanks

Eric, what would the cost be of these shipped to SoCal........?

I checked out the use of VW Bus CV's a little more. They are the same dimensions as the 944 CV's. SirAndy has a thread on how to do this. It does fit the 914 axle but requires the axles to be machined. Looks like a slightly lower cost alternative to bigger CV's if you are going five lug.

The CV with grease is the 944.

Wear can be an issue on these old stubs.
I had one of my stubs hard chromed and ground back to the proper size, cost me $70.

Correction I had this done to one of my wheel hubs, not the tranny output flange.

Mark, Paul, Eric or anyone able to verify this:

I have a couple axle flanges that have the 901332209/21 number stamped on them. But when I compare the measurements from the diagram in post 37 they don't match. The diameters of the 2 machined parts are the same. 35 mm and 45 mm. However the height of the 2 surfaces are different. The 22 mm is closer to 16 or 17 mm and the 36 mm is closer to 41 or 42 mm.
Makes me think they are for the 1969 sportomatic that Paul and Mark is referring to that look similar but have different dimensions than the 1970 part.

Question is: are the stamping numbers on the flanges irrelevant to what year the part is from?

Has anyone who has done this conversion had any issue with interference with the CV hub inside the trailing arm? I finally got a chance to install them last night. Everything was going all too well until the stub axle wouldn't turn. Loosen up the axle nut a little and it rotates metal on metal.

Do you have later style stub axles? No idea if that's the problem or where the spacer goes. I bought this setup from Eric several years ago and haven't installed it yet.

I'm still wondering if my transmission flanges are the correct ones. I'll have to check and see.

Once that tape is removed, is there any way to tell which axle is which?

Had my Sway-a-Ways redone in black when the CV boots failed.

Thanks!

The axle is stamped, marked "L" and the other one "R", both are marked only on one end. The part number is also marked on the same end.
The part number and stamp need to go towards the outside of the car and can only twist in the one direction.

So L is the drivers side (left), mark to the outside. Therefore R is the passanger side (right) mark to the outside.

That info is direct from Eric Andres at Sway-a-Way

I don't know other than VW/porsche stamping numbers can sometimes be whacked. Unless it's a 9 digit number that starts with a 901 or 911 it's not a known part number.

The best thing is to look at my post #77 for a visual comparison and Tomeric914 post #37 for the correct dimensions.

The L or R is typically stamped on only one end. It's only a reference mark and each axle is identical when manufactured. But the axle should be installed so that the markings are on the inside flange. If it was originally installed with the mark on the outside, it should be reinstalled that way. If they have been used in low horsepower applications it's probably irrelevant. If they have been wound up like a pretzel many times and then get reversed or swapped side to side they can snap.

My exact C&P email conversation with Eric Anders at Sway-a-Way

Axle orientation

3 messages

Mark H <***@gmail.com> Mon, Jan 20, 2014 at 9:19 AM
To: tech@swayaway.com

One quick question I have is are the axles directional?
I have part number 2420 that I bought direct from you last summer, they are new. I notice that the one axle is marked "L" and the other one "R", both are only marked on one end. I've heard they take a twist.

I know left and right... I'm guessing left outside and right outside?

Thanks
--
Cheers Mark
===============================================

Eric Andres <eric@swayaway.com> Mon, Jan 20, 2014 at 2:05 PM
To: Mark H <***@gmail.com>

The part number and stamp need to go towards the outside and can only twist in the one direction.

Eric Andres
818.700.9712, ext. 230

Sway-A-Way, Inc.
9667 Owensmouth Ave., Unit 100
Chatsworth, CA 91311
================================================

[Quoted text hidden]
Mark H <***@gmail.com> Mon, Jan 20, 2014 at 2:12 PM
To: Eric Andres <eric@swayaway.com>
That's what I thought, thanks