http://www.ddk-online.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=23361

VIN is 30011 & it came from the Factory with a GT kit including:

"twin plug heads; non-adjustable forged rockers titanium rods; 46 IDA carbs with steel carb covers; Koni shocks; Fiberglas rockers, front & rear deck lids; long studs."

- but narrow (non-flared) body.

The car - which has only covered 9979 km (that's 6,237 miles !) - is currently being painstakingly restored :

He'll have new calipers to bolt on it when it's done.

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=67599

I believe those to be the very first 914-6/GT calipers ever put together.

Owner is a member here but doesn't post and doesn't care to be called out right now however, after that thread (with his GT) I'm sure there's a few who can now put a name to the car.

I told Pete about it a while back and I think there's an article in the wings when it's finally completed.

I have a bunch more pictures he sent to me but asked me not to post. There's some "REALLY" interesting things about this car.

It is, as mentioned, a factory hot-rod. It was originally used as a press demonstrator car. It ended up in the hands of the late Gary Wigglesworth and was sold out of his estate.

This is the very first -6 off the factory assembly line. I think it's a tremendously important car. I can't wait to see it done (I've been promised a ride!)

Are we sure about that?

I know a lot of sources state that Porsche started with 0011 instead of 0001 when they numbered the 914-6, however, there's a lot of circumstantial evidence that supports the fact that they indeed started with 0001 ...
Andy

My understanding is; the first series (which includes the beloved 0004) were to be used as test vehicles and hence crushed. I believe all factory documentation begins with #0011 (as in TSB's etc). I've been informed by a couple different sources this is the first "production" 914-6 off the line.

I would imagine "production" is the key word here.

No. That is *not* how the numbering worked. I was not referring to any prototype cars.

All the prototype cars had completely different VINs. #4 is only called #4 because Brad didn't understand the VIN the guy told him on the phone. He thought it was 9140430004, but he was mistaken. Just as you are ...

The VIN for the Prototype is 914114. However, all prototypes were assigned internal project numbers (914/11 in the case of 914114) and those project numbers were carried on into the factory GT racing program.
*NONE* of the prototype cars had a production VIN number ...


What i was talking about is references to the production VIN numbers below 9140430011. There's plenty of references to lower number in official Porsche literature, including their very own recall bulletins.
Here's a link to the official recall information.
http://members.rennlist.com/914_collectibles/Recalls.htm
Note that only one recall starts with 9140430011, several start with 9140430001 and some start with 9140430030. This suggest that they had quite a few quirks in the very early cars. But it also strongly suggests that there were cars with VIN numbers lower than 9140430011.

Also, DGVWPB features a picture of the supposedly first production 914/6 (Page 39, right top corner) which they call #1. The picture is black/white but you can clearly see that the car is of dark color, possibly black with a bright (tan?) interior. Most certainly not yellow.
They also state that the production numbers started with 9140430001.

Andy

Well then I'm wrong, or they're wrong, or we're all wrong.

It's not in my garage so I don't care. Just spouting what I've been told.

That was my point all along!
Andy

...if it came from the factory...and used as a mule in europe...then why does it have the oil temp/pressure in english...

Porsche used it as a semi press car to promote the 914-6 in the U.S. before selling it to the first owner,

9140430011 & 0012 were the first and second protype/ development of the production line cars of the 914-6 series, both cars were used by the factory as show cars 0011 was also used as a dealer demostrator car to promote sales of the 6. Car had factory support in scca racing in the USA. Yurgon Barth Factory historian and 914 fan has verified that 0011 is the first production 914-6 and will state so in his new book.

Alright then, let's list the cars we know still exist today in order of their birth date.

Please note that the prototype car VIN numbers were not in sequence with the project numbers.


Listed from oldest to newest:

---------------------------------------
PROTOTYPE CARS
---------------------------------------
VIN: 914.111
Project Number: 914/10
Color: Red
Info: Owned by Dr. Ferdinand Piech, 8-Cyl. 908 Racing Engine, 3.0L, Bosch MFI
---------------------------------------
VIN: 914.114
Project Number: 914/11
Color: Yellow
Info: Owned by Sam Charters, 6-Cyl. 911T Engine, 2.0L, Weber carburetors
Oldest 914-6 we know of to date
---------------------------------------
VIN: 914.120
Project Number: 914/??
Color: Red
Info: Unknown owner in Germany, 6-Cyl. 911T Engine, 2.0L, sportomatic transmission
---------------------------------------
VIN: 914.006
Project Number: 914/21
Color: Silver
Info: Owned by Prof. Ferry Porsche, 8-Cyl. 908 Racing Engine, 3.0L, Weber carburetors
---------------------------------------



---------------------------------------
PRODUCTION CARS
---------------------------------------
VIN: 914.043.0011
Color: Yellow
Info: Factory show car, dealer demonstrator car, twin plug engine
---------------------------------------
VIN: 914.043.0012
Color: Red
Info: Owned by Glenn Stazak, car has some prototype parts.
---------------------------------------
VIN: 914.043.0019
Project Number: 914/31
Color: Irish Green
Info: Owned by Graf Goertz, Factory GT Prototype
---------------------------------------



There's a few interesting bits of information here:

- 914.114 is the oldest 914-6 still in existence today.
- 914.120 is the second oldest 914-6 still in existence today and the oldest Sportomatic car we know of.
- 914.043.0011 is the oldest 914-6 production car still in existence today.
- 914.043.0012 is the second oldest 914-6 production car still in existence today.

- There's a gap of 9 cars before Project Number 914/10.
- There's a gap of 9 cars between Project Number 914/11 and Project Number 914/21.
- There's a gap of 9 cars between Project Number 914/21 and Project Number 914/31.
- The Project Number for 914.120 is unknown.

Andy

Do you mean "Jürgen Barth"?
Is the title of the book, by any chance, "Surrounded by idiots"?

Andy

doing much better, now if you can break up cars in prototype models or ideals ,engineering development units of 914-6 (appears to be 9 cars), and the special development cars(908). its starting to make sense of how the cars developed.believe 0011 is also signal orange

Karmann delivered 20 914-6 shells to Porsche over the course of the year in 1968 for prototyping.

I only have detailed information on 5 of those and a few pictures of a 6th.
That leaves us with 14 early prototypes that are unaccounted for.
Andy

So it was the first 914-6 off the line?

Have you not been reading?


No, i don't think it was the first off the line.
I think the first off the line is the one pictured in DGVWPB on Page 39 (see pic below), which supposedly is 914.043.0001 ...
Note the Euro trim.

However, #11 may very well be the first production 914-6 to come to the USA.

And at this point in time, it is the oldest production 914-6 we know still exists. But that's obviously different than being the first off the line.

Andy

Reading what? Kinda testy huh?

So this is the first production six off the line? Who has 01? Why does Jürgen think 11 is the first six?



And the badge.

Dunno, how about stuff i posted earlier in this thread?



Why don't you ask him?



Beats me. Which i also already posted in this thread. (Reading, remember?)



Only with people who seem to have some sort of problem with me for no apparent reason.

Well... at least you're nice.

Factory recalls involving the early 914-6 cars:

Recall 9K, Aug 5 1970
Voltage plate cover
Install sealer to bottom of voltage plate and install new cover
1970, 914/6, 9140430001 - 9140431036

Recall 9F, Aug 25 1970
Seat Adjustment, A. Angle and travel
Replace seat angle notched disc and travel adjustment lever
1970, 914/6, 9140430011 - 9140430035

Recall 9J, Oct 14 1970
Fuel hose and battery+ cable securement, battery tray cleanup, battery cover
Secure fuel lines and battery+ cable from abrasion, repaint battery tray and install battery cover and strap
1970, 914/6, 9140430001 - 9140432668
1971, 914/6, 9141430001 - 9141430070

Recall BC, Jul 27 1972
Testing of rear view mirror mounting
Test interior rear view mirror mounting, re-glued
1970-71, 914/6, 9140430030 - 9141430394

Recall BG, Oct 26 1972
Exchange non-adjustable drivers seat belt
Replace non-adjustable drivers side seatbelt, with 15mm shorter part
1970-71, 914/6, 9140430030 - 9141430443


Like stated earlier 914.043.0001 is specifically mentioned here several times, along with 914.043.0011, 914.043.0030 and 914.143.0001 ...
Andy

Watching & learning!

Hey, you two cut it out, or I'll make you move to separate states.

back to the old problem these where engineering development chassies, porsche has verified that production started with 0011 & 0012 which where production cars with a lot of hand fitted items to verify production jigs estimate sept 1969. karman production # also indicate that bodies are #12 for 0011 & #0011 for #12 car bodies. Porsche 01 thru were #10 were developmental car as test cars and as such destroyed maybe

karmann made bodies are #12 in porsche chassie 9140430011 and karmann #11 body is in porsche 9140430012. numbers are stamped on the doors and right side of cowl, so doors and body dont get mixed up. Both cars have the same protype parts including the dash bracket that does nothing.

Still trying to figure out how I came out of this "having a problem with Andy for no apparent reason..."

Just asking questions and reciting how I came to understand the situation (Read: "my understanding"). Maybe if Andy doesn't understand the meaning of "my understanding" it came across like I was attempting to be some type of Internet expert on the subject. All I was saying is; this is how I was led to understand the situation. My simple post was met with a curt reply.

To me it is still not clear, no matter the amount of reading requested, if the word "production" plays a role as simply semantics herein. Even the last thread still leads me to wonder if this car is still the first -6 officially off the line (Porsche 01 thru #10 were developmental cars). I'm very sorry for this. I suppose it is because I'm really stupid.

I'm fairly certain it's OK for me to ask questions. I'm also fairly certain it's OK for others (myself included) to be wrong here. Even you Andy... you did the exact same thing to me in the tie-rod thread. I was asking questions, when things don't make sense to me I ask more questions. This is how I learn. Maybe you don't like it when I inadvertently question your wisdom. Allow me to make this clear; "I look to you for guidence in situations like this and others because you are so knowledgable." I don't enjoy being slapped by the teacher.

E.G.: As there are others reading this thread, could it be my question about Jürgen was directed at Tony, as he seems to have first hand knowledge of the situation? My question about 01... this is the "Internet"; maybe someone else had the answer. These didn't need to be met with replies as such.

This kind of banter just simply bums me out. I don't think I elicited or deserve rude/curt replies in any way shape or form. I held and hold no malice herein.

Enjoy your thread because I don't enjoy getting my ass tanned for asking questions or posting my thoughts (no matter how imposably wrong I will inevitably be). Kinda sad because I "was" interested in the subject.

Oh please, stop it ...


First, *if* you actually took the time to read my posts, you would see that i, by no means, claim to know all the answers.
I am merely pointing out that in my humble opinion, there is plenty of circumstantial evidence that #11 is not the first production 914-6.
We already know it's not the first /6 as there are at least two surviving /6 prototypes from 1968.

Now, the problem i'm having with you Eric is quite simple. If you go back and read through this thread you'll see that you misquoted me (deliberately i presume) numerous times.

I think i have a good idea as to why you do that (and you did the same in the other thread), and frankly, i does annoy me.

On the other hand, you now trying to make yourself look like the victim of some sort of "censorship" is laughable at best.
I never had a problem with you asking question. Or anybody else asking questions, for that matter.


So far, all i have seen from the people who support the original claim made in this thread is:

"It's true because i say so"
"I know a guy who's writing a book and he's going to say it's true in the book"


Those are the two main "proofs" presented in this thread so far, and i for one am not convinced.
Andy

Andy, I thought about ignoring this thread and allowing it to fade away, but I'm sorry, I've got to say that you're out of line here. I went back and reviewed this thread -- Eric made 2 posts prior to your criticism and in neither of those posts did he quote you. You may perceive some belligerent intent on his part, but as a disinterested third party, I see nothing but sincere curiosity. Relax, man, Eric's not attacking you.

karmann body #12 is stamped on 0011 ,which is the first production 914-6( euro model) karmann body # 11 is stamped on 914-6 0012 second production 914-6, both cars were factory owned production/ show protype cars. Both have special parts not on later production cars such as 911 engine # with 914 serial # and both have a bracket mounted to dash for some kind of pull switch along with different front fenders,gas tank carpet cover

Wohhhh Andy...you're reading something into Eric's posts that isn't there man, lighten up. I didn't see where Eric misquoted you either. Seemed to me he was simply interpreting what you posted and asking for clarification. Buuuut anyway...


Is that a stock /6 engine then? Or were these literally unmodified 911T engines dropped in as part of the test platform? It certainly sounds like the latter, I only ask because in my reading I've come to conclusion that a stock /6 engine is "essentially" a 911T engine. I'm just not clear what the "essentially" part implies.

Thanks

Reid

edit: fixed quote

Little details that make them not quite identical and interchangeable.
e.g. - the motor number is stamped in a different location.
The oil cooler is different.
The air cleaner is a little different.
I'm sure there a few others but those come to mind...

That car has a stock 911T engine with a 911T engine number ...
Andy

cars # 0011 & 0012 engines did not have stock 911 t motors, cylinders were 906 type it appears that the factory wanted give a good impression to dealers in 1969