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So if you "click to enlarge" you can see the numbers are printed on this red 70 car. The white 71 car in front yard also has a printed vin. My 73 has no sticker (sandblasted off by yours truly). My other three cars I can't see the vins as they are in a cargo container with the drivers door near a wall. What year did the vins become perforated. For reference this tag measures 39mm tall by 135mm wide. Height wise the dots of the vin numbers are on 1mm centers. The dot size is .5 mm (printed). For punched sizes I'd need measurements from someone.

The differences I see between yours & mine;

Mine - 914-6 - sticker is perforated, has rounded corners, says Porsche KG

Yours - 914 - Sticker is printed, corners are squared off (probably from the taping), says Volkswagenwerk AG

Here is the page from AA Catalog. It says #3 is the 70-71 Sticker. Yours is the right color, but says Volkswagenwerk. We need some other people to chime in.

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914-6 = Round corners and stamped VIN



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In a former life, i used to work at a printing company.

I can make a *exact* Photoshop replica of the early 914-6 sticker.
All we need is someone to figure out the stamping and perforating.

It looks as if the perforating was done in two passes to get the circles to slightly overlap.

Andy

Looks like the VIN and DOM are punched through, but the "fish scales" only go part-way through the actual sticker so as to make it break apart if you tried to remove it, but would not separate into little pieces before being applied to the vehicle. That would take some careful "punching".

Hi Wilhelm, I'm certainly not doubting something you have on hand but when I enlarge the pic the numbers do look like they've been punched out not printed. In the pic you can see what appears to be remnants of where the perf has not gone cleanly through

maybe they used different methods on the early cars; my '73 & '76 - both perfed

Hi Andy I believe the labels would have been manufactured for VW/Porsche with the 'background' circles already in place; the factory only would have added the VIN/Date. I own a printing company and see these type of patterned labels all the time where the blank label stock comes with a kiss-cut pattern like this.

Unfortunately the aftermarket ones are already cut to size and almost have to be done by hand as the die-presses would not be able to grip something so small. Maybe someone out there has an old Heidleberg - you could duplicate the circles and pin holes exactly with one.

The brass die might cost $150-$250 though

Ted, you are 100% correct; the method is called a kiss-cut; the blade pierces the suface of the stock but does not punch all the way through.

That way, once the label has been affixed to the car you cannot removed it without destroying the pattern; if you were to try and remove after it's been stuck down, the adhesive holds, the kiss-cut separates and the circles come out

Obviously a well thought out method to preven tampering

Not pretty but still intact....

T.C.'s and Mike's cars are only 71 apart off the line; like ships passing in the night . . .

Ummmm with Ahhhndy, 371.....so instead of handgrenades....missiles....

Konrad

P.S.

Well, for whats its worth, I would definately be in for contributing to the research to figure out a way to produce factory-like results. I have not looked lately, but I think mine looks alot like the one in Mike Z's picture. As my car will be undergoing a full resto(as soon as we finish the new garage), I would certainly like to have the option of a quality replacement label.

Ted K

This was my initial thought as well, but I'm not sure how one would go about preventing the singe marks around the cut-away edges...

TC, so sorry to hear about your heartache. Perhaps this will turn out to be a blessing in disguise, if you can perfectly replicate the original sticker. Personally, I've never liked the masked-off-for-painting end result, especially on a car where everything else is perfect - the overspray/paint thickness difference becomes such an eyesore, and you see it every time you open your door! Until this thread, I didn't realize it was a crime to remove the sticker, but now that I think about it, I see the logic, though I doubt any law enforcement agency would enforce the law. With vintage vehicles that have been restored and passed between owners, how would anyone go about proving that YOU were the one to remove the sticker?

Question for everyone: Has anyone successfully been able to remove the sticker for re-application after painting? Heat gun tricks? Chemical adhesive release that doesn't do damage to the sticker itself? There's gotta be a way!

Anyone else notice that the '7' used in the date is different from the '7' in the VIN?

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Looks the same to me....

Good eye! Looks like we need a photo database of the varying type designs and exact measurements for proper reproduction...

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There ya go proving me wrong....

I see that the 914/4 VIN has the same differences. Wonder why, were VINs assigned at the beginning at Karmann or at final assembly?

whatever reason they had for doing that they must have changed their minds by '73; here's a 914-4 VIN with the same style 7 used in the date and number

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Lets help Wilhelm and the other Early 914 guys out as well. So the the 914-6 came with a sticker that says Porsche KG and the 914 says Volkswaganwerk AG - correct? AA doesn't sell the Volkswaganwerk silver sticker according to their catalog.

MDG, since you are in the print business, is it possible to make a batch of those stickers (with the kiss-cuts). If the demand is there, I would be willing to fund this and offer them to members.

T.C.

Andys 914-6 sticker
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Wilhelm 914 Sticker
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Lets help Wilhelm and the other Early 914 guys out as well. So the the 914-6 came with a sticker that says Porsche KG and the 914 says Volkswaganwerk AG - correct? AA doesn't sell the Volkswaganwerk silver sticker according to their catalog.

MDG, since you are in the print business, is it possible to make a batch of those stickers (with the kiss-cuts). If the demand is there, I would be willing to fund this and offer them to members.

T.C.

Carefull.....the Krusty one warned you guys about screwing around with these stickers. Making them up and sending them across state lines could be a Federal rap.

I'd suggest that an admin send this thread to the sandbox where it has a little more protection from search engine web crawlers....

MikeZ is 100% spot on;

T.C. I doubt you would have any problems with what you are trying to do.

You have a well documented restoration underway on a well documented numbers matching vehicle. To fab up a replacement sticker to fix the bodyshop yob's error, I'd be gobsmacked if any type of court officer would give a crap - or even notice. By the letter of the law illegal? Maybe. But it's obvious you are not running a racket.

BUT I'd be very cautious about creating from scratch new VIN stickers; this is where we start getting visits from the FBI and RCMP.

The best effort here is to use the aftermarket labels available and recreate the look. High end woodworking suppliers have various small punches in the sizes needed to create both the circles and the perfed numbers. It would be tedious and may require a few attempts but no doubt you'll get what you want

cheers, m.

Are you guys sure that is a vin number sticker? Is'nt it just a safety standard sticker? The stamped numbers in the metal seem to me to be the real vin number id. Also the riveted tag on the front bulkhead. That is just like the stuff on vw's

If that sticker is the true vin sticker why would it be so easy to destroy? The stamped numbers on the inner fender well are the true id numbers that a inspector would use to compare the riveted tag to in my opinion.

The sticker says what it is. It does not say it's a vehicle identification number. I would therefore like to have or make a new one. Sell them as safety sticker which is what they are. If we all say they are safety stickers that's what they are.

Maybe a little misunderstood about my post. I was thinking about producing a run of stickers with Volkswaganwerk AG (with kiss-cuts) for the 914 guys like AA does with the other stickers. I would not be punching in the VIN #s

T.C.

I'm thinking safety standard compliance sticker as well, because the Euro cars don't have this sticker. Every other number is stamped in metal.

T.C.

Do you guys know if the sticker is punched from the face or back for the anti-tamper circles? Maybe getting 26 of those punches and doing one row at a time might work.

I'm in for one or two if it comes to fruition. Except for the weight the same sticker is on the 72 super beetle as the 75 914 so maybe the developer could extend the customer base for the r&d expenses. It would be nice to have one with and one without the weights.

Actually the 72 beetle has slightly different wording (it looks like the 69 sticker) and doesn't have the weight posted. But the stickers are the same size with the same type of punched info.

If someone were to make a set of dies that could be used to do the punching of the date and vin numbers they could rent it with a rebuild charge deposit if it gets damaged and maybe everyone could make new ones on repaints.

Also I see where a black safety standard sticker is posted on a 73 with the weights and my 75 is silver with the weights, black and silver? If the black sticker is a copy it looks pretty good except for the color. The numbers are sure punched straight but it looks like no tamper proof imbossing.

If the tamper proof circles are 5mm then could you make a die with 28 holes, skip the next offste row down and do the next in the skip a line pattern with 4 or 5 rows down. Then put a piece of dense rubber pad under it. Make a position jig bottom that you could move the top plate down one row and 1/2 hole to the side to do the other 1/2 set of embosses. the punch itself could be maybe the biopsy punch some one already mentioned or to keep from cutting out a hole a .002 hollow in the center of the punch to keep from going too deep.

After looking at the embossed holes they are touching so the holes in a row won't work. It would have to be every other hole which is getting more complicated.

Tod, the circles are partially in cut from the front leaving the backer intact; once this is adhered to the vehicle the pressure applied to remove it would cause the circles to split and effectively destroy the label.

as I mentioned earlier, it's a simple and effective way to safeguard against tampering. No doubt when the idiot who removed the one from T.C.'s car it came off in bits.

As far as the legality of just printing the labels with the circles in I have no idea. Obviously someone is doing it because AA and others sell them. I would assume, from dealing with trademarks, copyrights and so on everyday there would be permission needed. The way both factories involved here go after identity infringement I would think twice about starting to run off materials without their consent. Big, horrible, massive lawsuits ensue. One of my competitors up here is in court due to unwittingly running fake product posters; the logo holder caught wind and both he and his customer are getting friendly with lawyers now

m.

All lawyers do is encourage their pals in office to pass more laws that will garantee they will always have something to go to court over.

you got that right

Has anyone contacted the Porsche classic division? I wonder if there was enough demand they would do that.

Got my 1st two stickers dimpled ( a pain in the ass to do by hand)

Very tough to keep it dimples in a straight line and to judge how far to go into the sticker.

But I think once I get the VIN & Date # punched in, put it on the car, rub some oil & dirt on it to "age" it, I'll be OK

T.C.

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Here's the 2nd Sticker

T.C.

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Looks good T.C.. How about using a straight edge as a guide? A ruler might work. That way all your horizontals will be perfectly aligned.

T.C. the second one looks good!; careful when you peel the backer off in case any of the circles are loose. Once you press it onto the sill, it will lose some of the 'fresh' look to the impressions. As you say, rub your hand on it a bit; the oils will scuff it up enough that unless you point it out to people, no one will ever know.

That's as good as what I got

m.

I bought a stricker from AA and punched the holes in it myself. If I have time I'll post a picture of it later.
Any how, I got a block of machined aluminum, some EFD 20GA glue dispensing needles. Measured out the hole pattern (spaces between numbers) from a good sticker. I then went to the milling machine and drilled a grid with my spacing. Then I sharpened my EFD needle and punched out the holes.
The diagonal line has different spacing than the numbers.
It's a black sticker and does not have the peel resistant perforations, but it looks good.

A member iswilling to make me a jig to punch the VIN & Date #. Since I don't have my Original Sticker, I'm still requesting assistance

Thanks, T.C.

it can be done

Used a straight edge, but the lighting wasn't the greatest. It still will work for me - especially the 2nd sticker - just need the measurements for the Vin & date #s

T.C.

That actually looks really good for having to do it by hand!

I'm needing exact measurements of the VIN & Date # WxHxL with dimensions between the 1mm holes so I can get the Jig made. Without my Original I'm out of luck (smg914's M-471 is Euro so no compliance sticker)

Please help a brother in need.

T.C.

T.C., using my metric ruler I get:

Date: W=26.5mm x H=6.5mm

VIN: W=64.5mm x H=6.5mm

These measurements are from outside edge to outside edge of the dots. Sounds like you have the dots at 1mm each, so should be 1mm less on all measurements from outside center to outside center. The VIN measurement includes the bounding "#" symbols.

edit: Just saw you actually need more data. I measure the holes themselves at approximately 2/3 of a mm, with 6 dots spanning 'exactly' 6mm.

Reid

TC I have a 75 If it would help I will do the measurements in thousands and post them but if you have enough info I won't spend the time. It's rainy and cool today so a inside project is ok.

Charlie, I think Reid's info will work. If it doesn't, I'll put another post for help. Thanks for the offer.

T.C.

I haven't measured it but if the holes are 2/3mm that space inbetween them seems to be more than that like maybe the 1mm Reid posted.

Ok I couldn't stand it I measured my 75 and also discovered a couple of variances. The 4 in my build date has the bottom hole missing and the beginning # symbol has a left beginning bottom horizontal line hole missing. I guess the punches got stuck.

Also posted above: The diagonal line has different spacing than the numbers.

On both the 914 and a 72 bug the 4 is different between the date and vin. The top left leg on the 914 date (11/74) has 3 holes down and the vin has 4 holes down. All the 7's are the same.

The measurements seem to be:
height of the char. .278-.280
width .172- .175
vin width 2.550- gap to rt edge .297- between the date and vin .420
date width .980- gap to rt edge .297- down from top .232- vin and bottom .320

This was with calipers holding over the tracing so it could be a little off but not much.

It's almost as if the safety stickers were hand punched.
I don't know if it will help but I did a pencil tracing on both stickers. I can mail them if you want.

No offense man, but if you're going to stand up and say that I'm wrong you might want to take a closer look at the numbers I posted. Also, as has already been noted in this thread the later stickers are different from the early ones, and the 4-cyl versions are different from the 6s...which is what T.C.'s got.

Reid

disclaimer: didn't get shit for sleep last night, so perhaps a bit

These seem to be correct for the 1970 printed tags. Can anyone confirm if this is the same for the punched tags and 914-6 tags?
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