Found out today that while the shop was working on my 914-6, one of the flunky's remove & destoyed my sticker from the door-jam. I had made it Perfectly Clear that this sticker was not to be touched and to be protected during the restoration. But now it's gone.

I was told that you can get them from Porsche?

I know that George sells replicas, but how do you get them perforated?

Pissed & confused in Tampa,
T.C.

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Damn TC.... that SUCKS....

-- Rob

What about the possibility of taking one of George's stickers to a printer or label shop. Have them replicate it with the vin number transparent instead of perferated. Has anyone contacted Porsche to see if they can stamp one of George's labels instead of one of the new style they provide?

I want one perforated as it was or there is no need for a sticker. This is a 19,000 mile fairly early 914-6.

T.C.

That sucks big time, but there is not a lot that can be done about it now. Talk to the shop owner, and let him know that the value of your restoration has just been diminished, and you expect to be compensated accordingly.

I would get a new vin sticker made from Porsche. I know that they don't look the same as the old ones.

I worry that perforating one of AA's stickers could be considered a VIN crime if your car inspector was having a bad day, or just wanted to be hard nosed. Its one of those things that would probably never happen, but if it did it could land you in a lot of trouble.

You might loose points in concourse for having the modern vin sticker, but its better then having your car in an impound lot while the mess is worked out.

Zach

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...=84716&st=0
No reason why one of these couldnt be made with a "perferated" look texture on the silver, along with the numbers being either transparent or body color. Just a suggestion.


Here is an old thread on this for you. http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...c=25015&hl=
Contact partsman. Maybe he can help

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...c=25169&hl=

Good luck, hope it pans out.

Yes. And no. You can get a replacement sticker, however, it will look nothing like the original ...

The repros AA sells are a close match, but you'll have to find a way to perforate them ...
Andy

Gotta say...this really sucks! I'd be taking the shop foreman to task over this. Money lost & no reason for it. Hard to say just what that original label is worth, but it approximates priceless!
Pat

Read those threads Pat? I'm under the impression partsman whom works at a Porsche dealership can get them. The old style not the new unless I read into wrong.

I would use a leather hole punch or a tubular knife and spend about a month practicing making the perforations. It wouldn't take a lot of force to cut the sticker. A little pressure on a rubber backing and the mark would be there. Your not changing the VIN. your replacing a sticker with the same appearance as the factory sticker. Where's the crime. IMHO the shop comitted the crime.

I need one for my 914-6 also. I have the origional that was scraped off the door jam and I have one of AAs repo. I wonder if Mike Z or someone in the graphics business could repo one with the perferations ??? Al

This is what you get from the dealer ...

Note:
- Different look
- 911 part number
- Wrong weight
- Not perforated

Andy

That totally Sucks .Those guys have been around for a long time and know better. They owe you BIG.

LOL 3k pound 914!!!!

That is a drag T.C... Sorry to hear about it. I think if someone wants your car
they will overlook this detail. Not all collectors plan to show their cars in a
concours. I think most just want to have one, hmm, good poll maybe?

Someone out there has got to be able to make these. I am sure people
would pay $50 for a perfect replica with their VIN number. Isn't there anyone
in the printing business who can do it? What about laser cutting the numbers
on a CNC machine? Take the sticker, tape it to a piece of metal, zap with a
laser cutter?

I screwed my own up on the Rockin 914 using a wire wheel and being just
plain careless. I wheeled about 1/3 of the sticker
to nothing in one second of not paying attention.

Cover your sticker with painters tape followed by strong duct tape before
your gets f-ed up too.

John

Not only have they been around a long time, I TOLD them that sticker needed to stay and not be screwed up.

I've been in contact with partsman, he's been promoted, and thinks all he can get are the black labels with the 911 parts#. He's going to check, though.

I will be on the horn tomorrow seeking a solution. At least I have a picture to go off of.

T.C.

The good thing is I don't plan on ever getting rid of this car. I've had a lot of 914s - now in restoring this 914-6 back from the grave, I get to do it my way, with all the right parts. It's a keeper.

T.C.

Euro cars had no sticker ?

Oh man I would be absolutely LIVID over this TC, that's inexcusable. I'd have lost my shit if when I found out if I'd been in your place. Ugh.

True but then he's gotta yank the windshield VIN, etc. as well. That would be tough to stomach. Probably a lot better off taking the time to find a perfect or near perfect replacement, whatever the cost, since the paint shop is gonna be on the hook to pick up the tab.

I would think making the VIN perforations could be done with some practice and by making a jig with the number layout, but the anti-tamper circular impressions would be harder. Or does the Auto Atlanta stickers already have those?
JIM

The anti-tamper impressions could be made in the texture of the sticker. A good photoshop artist/print decal place should be able
to do that.

Really sorry to hear that TC. The car is NOW worthless; maybe you should sell it to me

I think a Poll is in order for what should be done about replacing the sticker. This way; if it happens again to someone then most people would be on the same sheet of music for what is an acceptable solution.

A. Replace it with the Porsche replacement sticker
B. Use the one from George (AA)
C. Have a printing shop make an exact replacement
D. Don't even worry about it; no one looks at the thing to start with.

TC.

Very sorry to hear of this. I went over this with my die cutter several weeks ago as I have the same problem on #41 and they can get small round dies to safety cut but can not put them so close together so he says that they put them in a jig one in one hole and not in the next one then they cut it twice. Anyway this will not be easy and the die will cost. I got two stickers from George and it may take several to get it right. These stickers look good but not as good as the factory ones. It is the best that we have.

Tod has an idea in the shadowing of the anti-tamper impressions in the screen-printing? You would need a very good artist.

Bob

Looks like all the numbers are derived from a geometric grid 4 wide and 6 high. Seems like it would be easy enough to make a punch template with 12 grids of 6 high by 4 wide hole patterns arranged side by side with the appropriate spacing. I would take 2 piece of polished 1/4 plate, reference them together and then drill the 288 holes in this simple geometric pattern. When done you put this mylar sticker in between the metal leaves and you can then punch any sequence of numbers you wanted with a tight fitting punch. Wouldn't need a cnc, I could simply do it on a mill with the digital readout. Bet this jig be done built in an hour or two.

All I would need would be the character hole size, the character spacing, the grid size and lastly the reference location of where the numbers are on the sticker.

Tell you what, make a photcopy or two on mylar of one of these stickers and send it to me and we'll see if we can make a punch jig.

If that works we'll put our brains together to create a toy to emboss the beehive pattern all over the sticker.

The body shop employee might be a candidate for the 2009 Darwin Awards.
Marty

a check canceling machine should be able to punch the sticker. Several years ago a guy sent me a pic of one our our stickers that he punched and it looked perfect. Too bad I did not get his name!!!

If having to paint the door jambs it is much better to replace the sticker than to tape it off! Tape off looks very messy and would fail the concours inspection.

Well, this is how it went yesterday. I called the owners son, as I wanted his side of the story of why the car is behind schedule (way behind). The car is about to be blasted, so I reminded him about making sure the sticker was protected. He then pulls the phone away and shouts, "Dad, come here T.C. wants to yell at you". I said don't tell me the sticker is gone. The son said yes and I hung up.
I called the owner back a couple of hours later (after I cooled down a little) and asked (was really hoping) "Are you guys Fuching with me?". Nope it was gone, one of his stooges had removed it.

So the next question is; How do you go off on a shop that hasn't finished your car?
And they are contracted to paint my Blue car that is up for COTM. The Blue car is paid for via a trade I made for 2 Tubs and parts.

T.C.

Couple of questions George;

Your replica stickers are smooth and don't have the circular impressions correct? Those seem more of a problem that the perforations.

I understand about the tape-off, but I think that an original sticker with some overspray/mess is much better than a non-original looking sticker, Yes?

T.C.

one thing I'm curious about; the circle pattern on the later stickers are kiss-cut on the face to create that impression. It's basically just scored into the surface.

On the pic of T.C.'s label earlier in the thread it appears those circles have been de-bossed from the back. Is it just a trick of the light or are the circles on the earlier silver labels bumped out?

Replicating the later style can be done; if the earlier ones are in fact de-bossed it could be tough as the repro labels have a peel-off paper backing on them.

m.

I called Brumos and PCNA. The only Vin Compliance stickers that Porsches can supply are the Black ones with the 911 part#. Something to do with Federal Laws & Regulations. Even if they found a stash of the Silver ones in 1 of Ferry Porsches old suit coats, they couldn't use them.

T.C.

I'm curious about the circular impressions on the sticker. They look to be embossed into the surface of the sticker and the darkened lines are actually shadows and/or dirt accumulated over the years. It is possible that an embossing die could be made to replicate the effect.

I've got over 30 years in the printing biz and have access to vendors who might work with me on this. Let me know if I can be of assistance.

BTW, I can't believe the body shop could be so careless with such an integral element to the restoration. They should be on their knees begging for forgiveness mercy.

Hey TC, a vinyl cutter like Z, Mark & I use won't really do it for you. As fragile as that material is, the cutter will most likely rip it. The vinyl we use is made to be under the cutter.

I like George's idea about the check machine. The embossing of the rest could probably be faked by finding an object of the right shape and size and applying some pressure - maybe like a rolling pin. It would take practice and you'll likely go through many stickers before you get it right.

This sucks, sorry it happened to you!

T.C.,
I think what you need is about 100 letters from us guys here saying how the value of a factory six is destroyed when the VIN#'s are missing...

Give us an address and we can start writing.

Thats why you dont let other people work on your car.

I think Wilhelm is on the right track although the time frame on the jig is very optimistic. 288 holes, a cnc would be nice. It seems another two plates shimmed for the desirable thickness with the circular holes to impress the scales could also be done. But the press plates seem complicated to make for a reasonable price. I painted a 72 sb with the sticker and it was really hard to not mess the sticker up. Also the color change means you gotta touch up all the dots showing through for the vin. Not easy. Also it's really hard to not de-laminate the sticker when you remove the tape. On the next one I think I will spray the stuff you use on motorcycle tanks and then cut with a exacto knife to do the graphics. I think it's liquid mask. It comes in gallon jugs and sprays on and peels off when done. I don't think it will hurt the clear top layer as much as tape. That label is a real pita to deal with it looks like a decent business could be done on reproducing these as the vin is really in the chassis also. Also a lot of the original stickers are usually scratched up after the years.
I went out and looked and the stickers seem to be the same on the 72 sb and the 75 914. I wonder if this has already been solved on the vw bug forums? Germanlook, samba or somewhere?

TC 911s registry guys have a couple of threads about this. They are in the same boat.

http://www.early911sregistry.org/forum/sho...ght=vin+sticker

When i read this post my heart sank..mines in the shop getting that very part of the car painted as i speak ..I just called them .they didnt remove or paint over it thank god..good luck with that issue i feel for ya pal

I've got a sub-miniature punch and die set that could do the perforations, but it would involve doing them one at a time. Do-able, if tedious. Precision is possible... I use it to punch 1/48 scale aircraft instruments.

Are the anti-tamper circles embossed or scored?

Looks like Todd has your answer. Have him send a bid to the paint shop and let them pay the cost.

Their "flunky" committed a criminal act while under their employ and on their premises. They're probably criminally and civilly liable. Can't remove a VIN tag of an7y kind, whether or not there are others. Having a motor vehicle without the proper tags potentially exposes YOU to future problems, and the value of your car is materially diminished. In fact, they're in deeper than that, because they have to commit a criminal act in order to fix their OTHER criminal act ...............

Interesting dilemma, no?

The Cap'n

from 911s

Thanks for the info. I got in touch with Rob today and he is sending me his kit. It includes 2 Stickers, 2 practice Stickers, a tool to make the circles and Instructions. I may still need a jig for doing the Vin# and date code.

I will let everyone know if this is the solution. Maybe I can do a few for others in need if it isn't too tough.

T.C.

Good info, I am going to subscribe to this thread for sure. I was talking to my favorite body shop owner and he told me about this place...........automotiveid.com Not the solution we are looking for but interesting none the less.

Ted K

I believe Wilhelm is on the right track with the jig for making the VIN. That is exactly as I had invisioned it when I posted about making a jig earlier. I am a machinist and making that jig with all the possible hole combinations would be fairly easy and very accurate. with the sticker properly placed and clamped between the two jig plates it would be a simple matter of pushing through the proper holes to cut out the VIN.
JIM

Laser cutter would be my approach to the holes.

It might be overkill but a different jig could be made with the larger holes and a hollow punch cut at a angle to replicate the scales. Maybe it's harder than it seems though.

Without the new sticker it is a real job to fill in the holes of a color change on the car.

So..... I went out to do some measurements of the number grid off of the vin tag from the '70 914 in the driveway. The jamb had been repainted, but the vin tag was obviously taped off and preserved. Weird thing though is the vin # appears to be printed and not punched though the date code is punched. I'll post a pict in am. Were some vin tags printed and some punched, or do I have a faked vin tag?

I think the problem there is the larger dimples (scales) butt up against each other. I think you would have to make at least 2 jigs to do it.

Rob from the 911S Registry is sending me his kit with instructions on how to do the dimples. Hopefully it is simple. Will advise.

T.C.

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