Progress report?

Hey Michael,

I certainly understand the issue of making a conversion work: there are so many details for "engineer" one's way through and when done, I find myself thinking: "If I were to do it again, I'd do a lot of things differently!"

A suggestion for bottom exhausting: be sure to install a serious chin spoiler to create a low-pressure area under the car and aid radiator exhausting. For the lower 3" of mine, I used kitchen floor coving: cheap, black flexible plastic and stiff enough to do the job.

In the case of my Chevy, I found another negative in using the low chin spoiler, however: It reduced the airflow under the car that comes UP in the engine bay and cools the engine block. I was surprised to learn that even though the Chev is "Water Cooled", 30 % of cooling still comes from air across the engine. How important to your Honda this is will be your challenge to determine.

A hard lesson I learned in my project that it is all about the complete package working as a whole.

If you forget the bottom-exhausting and want to maintain the Sleeper Image, there is still the choice of venting out the fenderwells.

Regardless of how you exhaust, I had an engineer bud beating me in the head to DUCT the AIRFLOW. He pointed out that ducting improves the efficiency of flowing the airflow and reduces issues of vortices blocking flow.

BTW: If you decide to vent our the top of the hood, I understand Bynbad914 found his louvers on Summitracing.com.

Best of luck,
Terry

Any updates?

Not much progress in the past month. Been focusing on getting my Civic ready road Road Atlanta March 5,6 with the BMWCCA and getting my spare 914 chassis ready for sale (wifes request).

Things I have completed:

1) Inlet ducting for the radiator
2) Support bracket for the exhaust system
3) Complete Wiring (painless 8 circuit kit)
4) Custom throttle cable

Things in Progress:

1) Vehicle Speed sensor (VSS) - Working on buidling a black box circuit to simulate the VSS signal for the ECU. (needed for VTEC to engage)

2) Just ordered a Corbeau Clubman seat that will need to be installed. Next weekends project.

3) Redo the soft fuel line install. Switching over to 30R9. Still trying to figure out the best orientation for the tank nipples to keep the excess line from kinking.

I should be able to make the first attemp at firing it up in about 2 weeks.

I still need to find a good used set of 225/45-15 toyo's for my 15x7,8 Fuchs. Anxiuous to get those on the car.

Everyone who has seen the car comments on how nice red valve cover looks below the black GT engine lid.



Michael

Congrats on a great looking transplant. I'm sure it will haul A_ _!

Best of luck, keep the photos coming!!

Terry


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I now have some personal experience with the louvers shown in the pic.
At 150 bucks per section, I would really expect more quality in the fit & finish.
In a word, they are crap. Sure, they're going on a racecar but good God!

The louver cut-outs are all over the map. The gell coat is gnarly. I would figure
10-12 hours (each section) to get them looking up to snuff......hi build pimer & a selection of sanding tools for a die grinder would be useful.
As pictured, they look pretty good....just don't get too close.

Finished the seat install today. Ended up using with an old Momo T frame instead of the Corbeau Clubman. I couldn't get the Corbeau to fit to my liking. Even though the Momo is a bottom mount, I got it to sit pretty low by using a thinner style slider with custom mounts.

I believe a side mounted seat with Brackets bolted directy to the floor is the best way to achieve the perfect positioning, but the momo is close enough for now.

Eventually I'll install a Kirkey Road race seat. Have one in my Civic and love it.

Whipped out a muffler bracket. Simple and should be good enough as the exhaust is quite rigid without it.

Also reduced the rear spring rate to 200# from 250#. Found a good deal on ebay and I think the lower rate is a better starting point from my research. Only takes about 30 minutes to change out rear springs which can easily be done at the track.

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Just wanted to say that I love to see the F20 in there!!!! Good job!!

I have 19 years experience in building Honda race/rally cars and when I bought my 914 I was in heavy doubt about which way to go engine wise.

I still am in fact... my first choice was to go K20/K24 supercharged and after seeing your intake elbow routed through the cabin, that would be my choice since it has the throttle body opposite the S2k one. Also I was curious about the height issue with these engines...you demonstrated it fit's nicely!!


The other one issue is how the 914 tranny will hold up, and how the gearing ends up with the 9k rpm engineband...but I guess you will be able to tell in a while


My choice now is a Subaru EJ20 turbo with a custom Elite Transmissions sequential 6-speed.....very low cg

But after seeing your car...the K-itch is back..........

Keep us updated and please include lot's of pictures!!!

Thanks,

Randall

The 901 will not do the Honda engine justice. The gearing sucks in the 901. That is what makes the Suby swap so much better, you get the tranny designed for the engine.

Randall,

Thanks for the compliment. Coming from a guy of your talent is encouraging. I love following your build thread BTW. Amazing work. Were those Hondas getting caged in your shop?

I'm a Honda guy, so the Subie was never an option for me.

As for the 901 tranny. I haven't done any calculations to compare with the Stock S2K gearing, but I need to do that. I'll test it out first and go from there. I think I'm stuck with the 901 final drive ratio, but changing the gears sets is not a problem for me. As for durability, I have collected 6 spare trannies over the past couple of years for backups. All part of the fun.

Getting it running and then keeping it cool are my next hurdles.

I'll keep you guys posted. Thanks

Regards,

Michael

I have a 914 trans with a 4.8 final drive if the stock one is too tall.

Blake,

I'm Interested. How much?

With a power band from 6500 to 8500 rpm I will definitely need to shorten the gear ratios. I calculated I need E,K,Q gear sets for 2,3,and 4. These are probably be hard to find.

Also needing a set of 15x7 fuchs wheels.

Michael

If you can find me a set of 15x8's straight and true I'll trade ya foe my 7's....I assume you mean 5 bolts yes?

This will not change the RPM drop between gears. It will raise the RPM need to attain the same MPH. I will PM you a price on the trans.

Blake

The U bolts are a nice touch.

Did you just bend them yourself out of steel stock, or did you find some commercially that worked?

With your car being considerable lighter than an S2000, you can pull taller gears (lower numerically) than the S2000 set up. Closing up the 3-4-5 gears would be a good plan for a track car but gearing is not a poke & hope opperation. There are plenty of gear charts floating around on the 901 to aid selection. For instance, a stock trans with an F second gear is good to about 69mph @ 8500 rpms with a 22.5 inch diameter tire. I'll send you a chart if you desire.

The U bolts are a nice touch.

Did you just bend them yourself out of steel stock, or did you find some commercially that worked?
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Heres more details from what I posted in another thread


HD Galvanized U-Bolts
Thread = 3/8 - 16
Dimensions 3 1/16" w X 2 1/2" L

This size worked perfectly. For the flanges I started with flange nuts. Drilled out the thread and ground down the top of the nut and welded in place. They would be much prettier if TIG welded.

The spacing on the fire wall is important. I spaced them the same width as the harness holes in the back of the race seat, which if I remember right is 20 to 25 cm. Just measure the race seats, this width is pretty standard.

I noticed on early GT cars there spacing looks wider than what is ideal for modern race seats.

When I get back home Monday I will post the details with ratios and tops speeds for the S2k vs the 914 stock gearing and with the gear sets I choose. Good point though about the car being lighter.

The link below is nice calculator I found online. Easier than setting up a spread sheet in Excel for now. Any help is appreciated. Once I get the car running I will have time to build a second trans. Just in the planning stages now.

http://www.turnzero.com/technical_resource...gear_calculator

Thanks JP

Top speeds (mph) in each gear @ 8500rpm S2K vs 914 (205/50-15)

Gear / S2K / 914 (stock) / gears I would like to replace
1 / 40.9 / (A 3.09) 41.3
2 / 62.6 / (F 1.89) 67.6
3 / 86.5 / (N 1.26) 101.3 /(J 1.476) 86.5
4 / 110.3 / (V 0.93) 137.3 / (Q 1.125) 113.5
5 / 130.9 /(ZD 0.71) 179.8 /(V 0.93) 137.3

Finding these 901 gear sets at a reasonable price is probably near impossible.

I had a flipped ZD 3rd gear in the shit box. Upshifting from 2nd landed it right in the gut of the power.....it also had the advantage of being free....as it would be for you and would be good to 95-7 mph for ya. The ratio is 1.409.

The other 2 are tougher. Otto's in Venice has as good a selection of oddball 901 gears as anyone on the West Coast. He doesn't sell them cheap, but nobody does.
Figure $4-500 a pop. You may also want to see what D. Evil can do for you. There is also a 901 trans guy in PA (IIRC)who's name escapes me at the moment....getttin' old is a bitch.

Here's a V, JUMP!

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911...-gear-sets.html

You could also try Albins: http://www.albinsgear.com.au/index.php . They make just about every ratio there is for a 901.

Update?

We have Ignition! Started it for the first time today and let it run for about 15 minutes. Exhaust tone sounds good and it ran smooth. I need to bleed the brakes and finish some details before I can make the first test drive. Very exciting to hear it run for the first time.

Made a lower lip for the radiator air outlet out of aluminum for experimentation and added hold down pins for the engine lid. If the lower lip works I will make it out of a hard rubber or nylon that can withstand an impact.

Also waiting on a new pedal board to finish up the interior.

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Very Nice build! Any data on temps?

Thanks for the compliment.

Nothing yet on temps. It will be a while before I can get to the track to really test it out. I'm still preparing it for the first spin around the block (early on a sunday morning since its not legal or insured). I just finished aligning the car, and now in the process of installing a front through body sway bar since the underbody type won't fit due to the radiator line. The plan is to take it around the block the weekend after next. I'll take some better pictures of the car when I get it out on the street. Body work and paint won't happen until the car is hauling ass on track.

32 mm hollow sway bar from Tangarine racing looks like the best bar on the market. Its a little pricey for my budget, but I think I'm gonna go for it instead of using the 22 weltmeister bar I picked up used.

Also put a tranny on the stand to build up with shorter ratios for 3rd, 4th, and 5th. I'll start tearing into that soon as well.

I'm getting to old for this shit, but I can't stop now. I hope to track this car for years to come.

Michael

How about some video so we can hear this bad boy run--and see it scoot!

this has been a really good post, it has inspired me to start on an srt4 engine swap that I have had the adapter for a while. I really would have liked to seen more on the motor mount. impressive keep up the good work.

Appreciate the comment. Feels good to know I inspired someone. This has been a big project, but if you just keep doing instead of thinking, you'll get it done. I haven't had much time lately to work on the car. It about 95% complete with the exception of paint and bodywork. I completed the front swaybar install and got my Fuchs mounted. Still haven't taken it for that first drive, buts its ready and will hopefully get a chance this weekend. When I do I will post some pics of the cars current state.

I finally decided on a paint scheme. I will be copying the BMW M1 art car by Andy Warhol. Brushing on the art pattern and covering it with a clear. The only panel which will remain a solid color will be the targa roof which will be smooth and gloss back.

I'll be glad to send you more pics of the engine mount. Justshoot me an email.

Hope to be posting some new pics after the weekend.

Regards,

Michael

I finally took it on the long awaited first test drive Sunday. Drove it about 2 miles on a back road. The smoothness and sound from the engine was incredible. Only took it to 6k rpm as I didn't have the speed sensor hooked up required for Vtec to engage. Even so the car felt strong. A 4 wheeled motorcycle is the best way to describe it. 9k rpm with Vtec is gonna be unbelievable.

I'm still worried about the cooling system. Its gonna take a much longer drive to evaluate that.

Bodywork and paint are next. Trying to decide between 2 paint schemes
1) Andy Warhol BMW M1 Art Car copy
2) BMW Imola red w/ Silver bumpers and Fuchs.

The car in its current state.
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Can't wait to see it in the rpm stratosphere, see if you can get video so we can hear it scream. Paint schemes will drive you nuts, I find myself looking at forums for ideas way too often for a car I am working on for rally-cross. Your two choices would both look good on your project, I guess I would like the Warhol just to get the looks and attnetion it deserves. Keep up the great work.

great work dude keep going and for pete's sake shoot some video of that thing Dave

Michael,
I have a large aluminum radiator that came out my blue car that would probably help if you are having cooling issues. It is 31" x 17" x 2" thick and I even have a mount bracket for the top. I just ordered/installed a larger one, (from Griffin Radiator in Piedmont) as my temps at the track were a little hotter than I liked. It should work great in a hot 4 banger.
Larry Caulder

is your car up and running? lets see it in action!!

Gear / S2K / 914 (stock) / gears I would like to replace
1 / 40.9 / (A 3.09) 41.3
2 / 62.6 / (F 1.89) 67.6
3 / 86.5 / (N 1.26) 101.3 /(J 1.476) 86.5
4 / 110.3 / (V 0.93) 137.3 / (Q 1.125) 113.5
5 / 130.9 /(ZD 0.71) 179.8 /(V 0.93) 137.3

Finding these 901 gear sets at a reasonable price is probably near impossible.
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It may not be as bad as you think ... try what JP suggested and use a flipped ZD for 3rd. It makes a KA, not too far from a J. Then you just need the Q, which though somewhat unusual is not as rare as the racing-only ratios. Q was used in some 4 speed 901 trannies and sportomatics, if I remember correctly. If you keep your eyes open, you can find one for a couple hundred $$.

Scott

Sweet
I like the red and black!
Red and silver is second choice. That would match your engine

Now that my 3 yearold son is back from his 1 year stay with the grandparents, I have no time to work on the car and things have come to a hault. I started preping the body for paint and get about 15 min a day to work on it. My goal is to paint it by the end of September. That's why I haven't posted updates.

Still deciding on a paint scheme. I keep changing my mind. I'm now thinking either all silver with red wheels or completely White (like the traditional Honda Type R) since that is the theme of the car.

Michael

+1 for Championship White

How the hell do you pawn a kid off to your parents for so long?

How the hell do you pawn a kid off to your parents for so long?
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Kid spent a year in China. Came home potty trained.

On target to get the car painted by the end of September. Base color will be white. Not sure yet about the bumpers, wheels, sails, etc.

Painting is a lot of freaking work. Good thing it's gonna be track car because I don't have the patience to make it perfect.

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Painting IS a lot of work! Looks like your making some progress! Are you going to block sand it prior to painting?

How did I miss this?

Very cool!

update.

I finally finished the paint job and it's now re-assembled. The paint job turned out ok, but could have been better. Too much orange peel. I learned alot, and the next paint job will be much better. It's respectable for a track car. I still need to add the targa trim and the all black fuchs. and geta front valance. Also thinking about a porsche side strip in red.

My winter project will be to build a short ratio transmission and to put some tags on it so I can start sorting it on the street in preparation for its track debut next year.

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You can color sand orange peel out, but find someone that has done it before to teach you the tricks.

I think your car looks great. You'll be proud rolling her out on to the track.

Looks great!

Orange peal can be color sanded out, but for a track car, IMHO I would rather just have it be uncut. Its stronger that way.

I have been away from the site and my car too but, I just started geting back into mine, (working on electrical etc) and remembered your car so went hunting on the site. The only word that comes to mind is "WOW!!!!" Congratulations for sure. I am constantly amazed at the work guys like your self and others here on the World are capable of. Once again, really fantastic. Have a blast with it!
Grant

any updates? videos? looks great.

Nothing exciting to report. The car is pretty much done with the exception of 5 point harness and front valance. I need to get some tags on it so I can start sorting it out on the street. I don't want to risk driving it without insurance and tags and I have been busy and putting that off. The ride height needs to be set and front sway bar hooked up.

I'm currently building a short ratio gearbox. I have 4 trannys disassembled to build one good one and parts are everywhere.

I will post some updated pics now that the all black fuchs are on it.

Also ordered one of Zachs 917 style shift knobs.

I have been watching your build thread as well. Still glad you left me the red one.

Regards,

Michael

Great job! I had an AP2 S2K and really liked the car/motor. To maximize it's potential you had to "learn" how to extract the power...once you figured it out it was a joy to run through the gears.

I'm personally inviting you to our clubs (Peachstate PCA) HPDE event at Road Atlanta on June 2-3, obviously, the BIMMER club won't let you on the tract sans a 6 point cage in your car. I'll be there along with at least two other 914's. I'd love to see it run.

Great job!

I am glad I stumbled across this thread. I have been gathering parts for the last year for this very build. I have the engine and the car and Im saving up for the adapters from KEP. I think the f20c is a great choice for a teener. It should run circles around most cars. The S2000 is 2800lbs and your car is probably near 2000 lbs. It will walk all over a stock S2000.

I have done many F20c conversions and Im very familiar with the wirirng. Your correct on the VSS needed. It needs to go back to the Ecu connector A pin 9 if my memory is correct. i have it in a wiring diagram at the house. Your vtec will work but it will go into limp mode once you get up to 110mph or so. You can disconnect power to the ecu clear the code and it will run great again until limp mode hits again. I can tell you how to bypass the antitheft if you want to get rid of that.

my number is on my website if you need help sorting the wiring out. I can send you a wirirng diagram too. www.worldclassmotorsports.com

Great build and look forwad to the finish results and impressions.