Starter fluid did bupkiss, so it must be electrical. The dwell was fine...she has new plugs and wireset. Buy a new coil? Where do I go from here?

You need to check for voltage at the coil. Use a test light if your meter is bad. At least you'll know you have voltage there.

Going out to do that now...got the meter working now. Also bought a new coil...might as well make everything fresh anyway.

I have 12 volts at the ignition side of the (brand new blue Bosch) coil. The points are opening on the cams. Although I'm still a rookie it looks like it has to be either the points or condensor at this point. What else could it be at this point? If it won't even shudder with starting fluid, and has new plugs, wires, & coil...is getting 12 v at the coil and the accelerator pumps are pumping...

What else could have deteriorated and gone away as I was driving her yesterday?

Take a spare plug, remove one of the plug wires from the engine and hook up the spare plug. Make sure the body of the plug is well grounded to the engine, use copper wire to tie it down to something if needed. crank the car and watch the plug for a spark - let us know what you see, or don't!
OR
if you have a timing light hook it and and crank the engine, does it flash?

Used a timing light...nothing.

With 12V to the coil and not even a stumble on one cylinder I'm betting you won't see a spark. I'd check the easy stuff first. Check your cap and rotor. See if the contacts are burnt up and cruddy.

Check your coil wire too. Your looking for something that would affect all 4 cylinders.

Ok, so lets recap - no apparent spark, new coil, points, etc.
I assume you have a test meter that really works
1)Pull the wire from the coil to the distributor/ condenser ( the - or number 1 terminal) put your meter on a voltage range, say 20v, and put it between the #1 terminal and the engine metal, turn on the ingition, does it show 12v? Turn off ignition.
2) take a piece of wire and hook it to #1 termial, turn on ignition, and very briefly flash the loose end of the wire to engine metal, did you see a spark from the wire? Turn off ignition
3) leave the wire attached, pull the center spark plug wire from the distributor and put an old spark plug on it. Lay it on the engine so it touches the metal well - not to paint!
4) Repeat #2, does the plug spark when you flash the wire to the metal?
LMK

You do have a rotor in there don't you?
and
the center carbon contact is touching it!

Yes...I have a rotorin there. Is it touching the contact? No idea...I'm too big to get in there with it. Tried that with the refrigerator once to see if the light really goes out.

The points are not new, but they are opening, and showed good dwell (46 ish) before the car crapped out. I guess I'll do points and condensor tomorrow.

Did you check this from my previous post?
1)Pull the wire from the coil to the distributor/ condenser ( the - or number 1 terminal) put your meter on a voltage range, say 20v, and put it between the #1 terminal and the engine metal, turn on the ingition, does it show 12v? Turn off ignition.
2) take a piece of wire and hook it to #1 termial, turn on ignition, and very briefly flash the loose end of the wire to engine metal, did you see a spark from the wire? Turn off ignition
3) leave the wire attached, pull the center spark plug wire from the distributor and put an old spark plug on it. Lay it on the engine so it touches the metal well - not to paint!
4) Repeat #2, does the plug spark when you flash the wire to the metal?

Right now I'd just look at the simple stuff. Pull off the cap and rotor and check their condition. Is the tip of the rotor burnt up and dirty. Check the inside of the cap. Check the contacts. Are they burnt up and dirty. If so buy new ones. You can clean up what you have now for kicks. Take some emory cloth and shine them up. Wipe them clean so you don't have tracking. Check that your points aren't buggered up and that the gap is correct. Check the resistance of your coil wire. It should show no resistance on the ohm scale.

To help Ken understand what you mean when you say - Check the resistance of your coil wire. It should show no resistance on the ohm scale. - I assume you mean the wire from the switch to 15 on the coil.
Assuming its a standard 3 - 4 ohm coil, then I = v/r says it draws around 3.0 amps, so to check the wire can handle the draw you would need to put a high wattage bulb, around w = (I^2)*r or 30watts, to test that the wire can handle the surge load.
The coil primary has a resistance of around 3 - 4 ohm, the secondary, the high side has a resistance way above 6000, to give a step up of 2000:1.
The easy test for a high resistance feed on pin 15 is to remove the wire on 15 and jump it straight back to the battery +ve, then try and start the car. Don't leave it this way for long or the coil may fry if the points are closed or shorted.

In helping me to uderstand you totally caused my head to spin No idea what "from the switch to 15 on the coil means" What switch? 15 on the coil? What is 15 referring to?

Anyway, I changed the coil out today for a new one to no avail.

Haven't had the time yet to try the stuff you mentioned before (doing parenting), but I'll get to it tomorrow...thanks. Gonna replace condensor, points, rotor and cap. Then I'll replace the car and everything will be fine.

On test #3...is the "center spark plug wire" you refer to actually the wire from the coil to the distributor?

[quote name='kenshapiro2002' date='Aug 25 2009, 05:51 PM' post='1207192']
In helping me to uderstand you totally caused my head to spin No idea what "from the switch to 15 on the coil means" What switch? 15 on the coil? What is 15 referring to?

Anyway, I changed the coil out today for a new one to no avail.

Haven't had the time yet to try the stuff you mentioned before (doing parenting), but I'll get to it tomorrow...thanks. Gonna replace condensor, points, rotor and cap. Then I'll replace the car and everything will be fine.
>>>>
Ken, 1 and 15 are the numbers on the coil, and you must have them connected correctly do you have then reversed by chance - 1 goes to the distributor/condenser and tach, 15 goes to the battery via the ignition switch!
ken PM and i'll give you my phone number, feel free to call me and i'll work you through this -

This might be lame suggestion, but make sure that the rotor is installed properly. I just installed new points two days ago and setting the dwell meant I had to remove and install the rotor several times. On 3 occaisions I didn't have the rotor orientated correctly/seated all the way but I thought I did because I was able to put the dist cap on. Of course the car wouldn't start.

I didn't want to confuse the guy with ohms law. I just wanted him to check that the coil wire (wire from the coil to the distributor) was good ( big one that looks like a plug wire but isn't). Flip your meter to ohms and touch a lead to each side of the wire. If the needle doesn't move you found your problem.

I'm talking simple and easy stuff. I'm not splitting atoms or nothing.

Now I understanf what the "1" and "15" are referring to. What the hell do the numbers refer to? Why not just use (+) and (-) ? Anyway...yes, my (+) is going to my ignition, and my (-) has two leads attached...the one to the condensor/dizzy and what I assume is a ground coming off the same bundle of wires as the ignition wire. Thanks for the PM / phone number offer...will do.


[quote name='neil30076' date='Aug 25 2009, 08:59 PM' post='1207197']
[quote name='kenshapiro2002' date='Aug 25 2009, 05:51 PM' post='1207192']
In helping me to uderstand you totally caused my head to spin No idea what "from the switch to 15 on the coil means" What switch? 15 on the coil? What is 15 referring to?

Anyway, I changed the coil out today for a new one to no avail.

Haven't had the time yet to try the stuff you mentioned before (doing parenting), but I'll get to it tomorrow...thanks. Gonna replace condensor, points, rotor and cap. Then I'll replace the car and everything will be fine.
>>>>
Ken, 1 and 15 are the numbers on the coil, and you must have them connected correctly do you have then reversed by chance - 1 goes to the distributor/condenser and tach, 15 goes to the battery via the ignition switch!
ken PM and i'll give you my phone number, feel free to call me and i'll work you through this -
[/quote]

Thought you might be right for a minute there, but the circumstances were that I was driving her for quite a while before she started to crap out on me so the rotor must have been on right, right? When I removed it awhile ago, I made sure I turned it until it seated downward.

As a recently retired teacher, I must commend you on your ability to step down to the level of the learner! I just did as directed and the resistance was approx. 4,200 something-or-others! Might as well do the other tests...see ya'll soon. Thanks again.

The numbers are industry standard for wiring connections, like the numbers on a relay.
>>
Good point jmill,

The main wire from the center of the coil ( the high voltage) could well be shot - easy test, pull it from the distributor, lay it close to the engine metal and crank the engine, no sparky - bad cable, maybe .

One good thing is your problem is limited to a small area. It's electrical (unless you broke your dizzy - does the rotor turn with starter?) and it's from the coil output to the dizzy cap. Not too much there. Cap, rotor, points, condenser and one wire.

And if someone local was there to help, who understands the electrical side, this would have been fixed in a few minutes. I'm always amazed that long distance help on 914 boards is easy to get, local, not so. I'm on the 928 BB's as well, and you only have to ask for help and everyone local wants to show up!

I hear you Neil. On the West coast thats true. In the past 10 years of living in Wi I've only seen one teener. Local guys by me are 100 miles away.

OK...back from the gay-raj and I'm actually learning and having a blast. Here's what happened:

1. Rotor definitely is spinning.
2. Pulled the wires from the (-), coil side of the coil and it shows 12v.
3. Attached a wire to the same terminal, flashed it to the engine and it sparked.
4. Put an old plug on the dizzy end of the coil-to-dizzy wire and laid it on the engine. The wire used above still sparked when touched to the engine.

I live right outside of Baltimore, major US city, and I see Ray Lewis more often than I see other 914s. I know of one other that sites within a 20 mile radius. I probably see 2-3 a year (of course, I've been seeing mine every 15 minutes).

PROGRESS -
2. Pulled the wires from the (-), coil side of the coil and it shows 12v.
3. Attached a wire to the same terminal, flashed it to the engine and it sparked.
4. Put an old plug on the dizzy end of the coil-to-dizzy wire and laid it on the engine.
The wire used above still sparked when touched to the engine.

>>>
but if you did #4, did the spark plug fire ? i'm stil thinking jmill is correct, bad coil to dizzy wire!!!

Jmill, And you know what - i see at least one almost every day and i don' t know who they are - always on the move - they do tend to be way more runners rather than up on jacks out here !
+Lets get ken rolling - under power that is

Didn't see the plug fire (didn't even look). Sorry...didn't think your instructions asked for that...I'll check tomorrow. The coil to dizzy wire is brand new. Tried the old one today and it made no difference.

PM sent, call me tomorrow

One more shot in the dark. When you had it choking and sputtering you could have fouled the plugs. I've never seen all 4 get fouled but stranger things can happen.

I'll check that out too. I once had both headlights go out on a Beetle 30 years ago. Logic said it had to be something in the circuit, but in fact, both went south at, or near, the same time (maybe I didn't notice when just one was out). Anyway, it was just two bulbs needing replacement.

The plugs look beautiful (at least #2 did...too lazy to pull the other three when that one looked new). Off to get points, rotor, cap, condensor and a taco. Check back in later.

Well, the rotor is shot, so that would explain it. My local VW "expert" shop was unable to figure out my dizzy cap / rotor situation, so I ran home, ran the numbers, and found out I have a Bosch "050" dizzy. The guy I've been dealing with there on parts had never heard of an "050" (seems they're not that unusual), so he gave me the wrong cap, rotor and condensor (points seem to be the same as an "09"...01/011), so he's ordering me the right parts now that I gave him the numbers off of Pelican Parts.

cap 9 231 081 413
Rotor 231 081 628

Let you know in a few. Then it's back to the carbs.

Hey, can a rotor do anything less than just fail? Can it deteriorate and have been causing some of the problems I assumed was fueling?

It wouldn't cause popping out of the carbs. Being too lean does that. It would skip firing a cylinder here and there before it went totally bad.

And the top plate on the carb not being bolted down would cause leanness, right? I'm expecting good things come Wednesday. Yeah...that's how long it will take Pelican to get my parts here. Seems an 050 (vs. an 009) causes the locals here to go , "What?". Then again, I've learned to have no expectations. There was zero resistance on the rotor.

Hopefully these parts will solve your problem, just curious - what do you mean by - There was zero resistance on the rotor.

Set the old multi meter for ohms. Touch leads to center and end of rotor top. Got 5,000 on a new rotor, got 0 on the one that was in the car when it died.

5,000 is good, 0 - as in open circuit, is not :-)

Should fire up next week. Then Ill see how the car is running with good fire, and get to work on the webers (assume they'll still need work...couldnt have all been the rotor). The I'll point her west on I-70 and meet you for lunch.

LOL ! You make it this far and it will be dinner at least!
FYI, the attached may help you if you need to adjust the mechanical linkage on the carbs, I do not recall if you have the hex cross bar linkage or not.
Click to view attachment

Somebody on here said this was a good linkage. It has zero slop or play in at.Click to view attachment

good linkage, my instructions don't really apply, ignore :-)

Do you know what brand or type it is?

Talk to me Goose. Is it running?

yes, enquirying minds want to know

Had to order the rotor (and condenser, cap and points) from Pelican. Somehow 2-3 day Priority mail takes from Thursday to the predicted arrival date of this Wednesday. As soon as it arrives, I swear, I'll slap her back together and let ya'll know. I had planned on that anyway. You have no idea how much I appreciate your, and Neil's,constant interest, vigilance and instruction.

I have to switch hats and work on my 928, then my Land Rover, so my 914 attention will go down as its the only car i drive that is ( touch wood) running perfectly right now.
My wifes car ( Range Rover) doesn't count, she won't let me near it as its still covered by factory warranty!

The Pelican landed today (8/31). I'll get cracking tomorrow morning and let ya'll know something tomorrow night!