What is everyone's feelings on engine conversions? Options

[sjhenry1075]

My father gave me his 71 a few years ago that he purchased after returning from a tour in Vietnam. He drove it for about 5 years, put 56,000 miles on it then put it in a garage where it stayed until a few years ago.

My original plan was to build an engine to replace the 1.7 that is currently in the car. Recently I was having a conversation with a friend who told me he had a Ford straight six that I should put in the car. My question to everyone is, how do you feel about converting to a v-8, or any other "non-vw" engine? Does it make it less of a 914? No offense to those who have converted, I'd love your viewpoints as well.

[76-914]

I love conversions but your opinion is the only one the counts. That being said, I sure as Hell wouldn't put a Ford straight 6 in it. Go Subaru, Audi or Chevy. Much more support, easier and cheaper. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[Optimusglen]

I think it depends. On a '71 914-4 that's not particularly rare or sought after I say do with it what you like. Sure, someday these things will be worth a ton more in original condition. But if you like a good project then go nuts.

On the functional side, I'd always prefer something weighted similarly so as not to upset the handling. My first choice after the VW 4's and Porsche 6's would be a Subaru flat 4. the only reason to go V8 IMO is for sound, the Subaru 4's can be built to blistering amounts of power, more than what is reasonably useful in a car like the 914 unless you're building an all-out track weapon.

[Mark Henry]

Keep it T4 or porsche /6, subaru and chevy. Those are common and conversion parts are available. Both the subi and chevy the (new) conversion bits alone will cost close to a nice T4 2.0 rebuild.
The porsche /6 is likely the most expensive, but some subi/chevy builds also have had hefty budgets.

My personal opinion keep it air cooled, T4 or /6.

[Elliot Cannon]

Go with anything but the Subaru. A Japanese engine in a German automobile like the Porsche 914 begins to disturb the balance in the universe. You will be afflicted with the "Subi curse". Strange things will begin to happen to you. You will be shunned by the "purists". Many Porsche owners will not want to speak to you and say things about you that are not very complimentary.


On the other hand, a modern engine that runs great and goes like "stink" can be fun. You know... if you like that kind of thing. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif)

[gothspeed]

1st choice: Air cooled type 4 and 6 is awesome.

2nd choice: Water cooled inline 4 or a very small and light weight V6 or V8

[mepstein]

Get your car running, drive it a while, then decide.

[Coondog]

Never heard of anyone putting in a Ford Straight Six, so I would throw that ideal out the window. Bottom line is your budget.

If you want a car that holds its value then just freshen up your current motor.

If you want a car that when finished the drivetrain will be worth more then the car go with a 2.7, 3.0, 3.2 conversion

If you want a car that once converted can never go back then go with a V6 or V8

If you want a car that’s fast but comes with a lot of work to do then go Subaru

Do your homework, remember don’t forget about your suspension it should be your first upgrade

But I have to agree with Mepstein, get it running then drive it for a year before you make any decision. A good running 1.7 is a lot of fun. Of course a 3.2 is more fun.

[Mark Henry]

Get your car running, drive it a while, then decide.

Best advice (IMG:style_emoticons/default/thumb3d.gif)

Most conversions end up one to ten+ years on jackstands.

[rhodyguy]

How much money is in your budget?

[sjhenry1075]

I wasn't going to convert to the Ford engine. I just wanted everyone's opinions. I read a lot of threads about converting to different engines. Personally, I want to stay air cooled. I'd love a VW 6, but they are super expensive. I'm hoping I can find someone who's willing to part with a 2.0 for cheap! haha..

[mepstein]

One just sold for $2k and Mcmark has a fresh rebuilt long block for $4k. Doesn’t get much better then that. Pull your engine, set aside if it’s numbers matching and build up the 2.0.

[Lucky9146]

Get your car running, drive it a while, then decide.

Best advice (IMG:style_emoticons/default/thumb3d.gif)

Most conversions end up one to ten+ years on jackstands.

Truer words never spoken on the jack stands, 5 years for me! Best of luck with you project!

[Andyrew]

Its an otherwise stock clean car in need of minor restoration? Rebuild it to stock and enjoy it as your father did. The Nostalgia is 90% of the fun.



If its a custom car, or in need of major repair, AND your looking for performance out of it. Then I would say a subaru 6 paired with a subaru trans or a chevy LS motor paired with a boxster S 6 speed. One will net you 250hp one will net you 400hp. Both are great packages. A 250hp 914 is a FAST car, Its right at the point where you need to consider addressing the shortfallings of the suspension, brakes, chassis. A 400hp car needs these things addressed.

[McMark]

IMHO, the MOST important question you can ask yourself, which will make your path clear...

Do you want to spend a bunch of time and money being unique/original? Designing and fabricating parts? Making custom wiring?
Or do you want to drive the car?

Nothing wrong with either path.
1. A stock engine is the easiest to install, and while they may seem expensive, it's the cheapest solution by far. Keep that in mind...
2. A six cylinder Porsche engine is quite expensive, but has the greatest resale value by far.
3. A small-block Chevy (SBC) is the 'oldest' engine conversion. There are tons out there and lots of advice and help about how to make it work.
4. A Subaru (4 or 6) is a pretty common conversion. Adapter parts aren't as common/easy as the SBC, but a lot of people have done it and there's lots of help.
5. Anything else: You're on your own and you'll be doing a lot of fabrication, troubleshooting, etc all on your own. Not many people will be able to help and you'll have the least resale value of any of the above options. Don't fall into the trap of thinking a cheap/free motor means a cheap conversion.

We've seen a lot of people come through 914World with grand ideas and big projects. We've seen very few actually get completed. I'd urge you to get a good running 4 cylinder stock engine for a couple grand. The car will be running quickly and you'll have money left over to fix all the other inevitable issues. Most of which can be fixed while keeping the car driveable. Learn if you like owning and driving a 914 before you commit to a big engine swap.

[Tom_T]

Okay SJ, Here's only my thoughts on it - you'll do what you want.

As a 71 914/4 original family/2 owner (could be considered 1 owner-ish) with only 56,000+/- miles - which I assume is supported by the service documents/etc. from your Dad ..... a lot will depend on it's current condition.

IF it's still with original paint & interior - & iF those are in good shape today - then you might want to consider maintaining it as a survivor, but can do some mild & reversible engine upgrades (see below).

And that's also only IF it's a "numbers matching" original drivetrain (motor & transaxle).

If so, then you should probably first collect all of your Dad's documentation, the window sticker & dealer invoice etc. from the new sale (if he has them), & also get a COA from PCNA to document it for the above as a nice survivor (you'll get a discount for sending in a copy of the window sticker/dealer invoice &/or for mentioning the PCNA COA ad in Panorama magazine - even if not a member ~ maybe $10-20 off IIRC for each/both).

That said - IF it meets the nice low mile 1/2 owner "Survivor" original 914 (of any year), then it's probably one to consider keeping that way for value - both now & in the future. There just are not a lot of 56k mile time capsules around like that today.

You can still do some mods for your enjoyment, like getting another 1.7 or 2.0 flat 4 & have it built for performance to 1911-2000-ish cc (1.7) or 2056-2700-ish cc with either D-jet, modern EFI or Carbs. You could also get a sideshift trans either with or in addition to the substitute motor, for better shifting. Of course there are other ancillary parts to get if you do this, like the different exhaust, engine support bat, side-shift linkages, etc. - so it's not a simple drop-in, unless you stick with a "built-up" 1.7 & tailshifter.

However - whatever you do to it, do it in a way that you or a future owner can easily reverse & put it back to dead-stock original as a collectors car. Also try not to thrash & trash it, because that too will affect value - but they are meant to & need to be driven some, & babying them too much causing carbon build up & other running problems - but on the other hand you have more scarce parts today if something breaks, so some care is needed.

Keep in mind for Porsche Club Concours purposes, it has to be 75% original paint & 75% original upholstery - so up to 25% can be replaced in spot repairs or paint to still qualify, & many originality buyers, appraisers, other Concours groups, etc. think about it as still being "original" if 10, 15, 20, 25% has been replaced or touched-up over a 47-48 year life.

On the other hand - if it's in need of TLC & not great shape anymore, significant rust issues, etc. - then as others have said - do what you want, but I agree that the Ford I-6 is not a great choice, by both size/shape/length & many other factors; as there are many other better options whith many members on here for support - as noted above.

Also, if your Dad is still around, then ask him what he thinks & feels about it, since it's a family heirloom.

Here are a couple of pix of my buddy's original owner +/-61K mile `71 914/4, for which he's always getting offers & the serious ones were all well over $30K. No, the wood dash face, turned aluminum door sills/covers, hood badge, & wheels are not the factory ones - but they were VW of America dealer sold accessories available back in the day, which the original Porsche+Audi dealer put on the car when new by the dealer for a buyer who backed out, & then Jerry bought it as is.

It will give you an idea of what a really nice survivor 71 914/4 looks like for comparison, & you could post pix of yours/Dad's on here too.



>>>> If yours looks like this, then don't muck with it, is my advice!
.

If you're not sure, then think on it a while before you decide.

Here's the Hagerty Valuation for a 72 914/4 1.7L - because for some reason they only list 914-6 under 1971 (they also erroneously list a 2.0 in 72 MY), but it will give you an idea of where a really nice low mile OO/1-family/father-son example might go for such as yours. The 1972 1.7L 914/4 shows recent values in #1 Concours condition of almost $30K!

https://www.hagerty.com/apps/valuationtools...Porsche-914-1.7

Good Luck! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
Tom
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[mtndawg]

You can probably ride a big wheel uphill in the snow faster than a 1971 1.7L 914 going downhill with a tailwind. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif) That being said if you have an original car with documented mileage and you're only the second owner, car nerds love that sort of thing. Someday you might decide to sell it or keep it in the family and give it to someone else. You can buy another 914 any day of the week to put in a big motor to go fast.

[gothspeed]

Get your car running, drive it a while, then decide.

Best advice (IMG:style_emoticons/default/thumb3d.gif)

Most conversions end up one to ten+ years on jackstands.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

Mine has been 'in progress' for over 5 years now ... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

[JRust]

I am a suby guy so it's easy for me to just say do that. There are variables though.

IF your car is an original 56k car? It's been in dry storage for a long time. What kind of shape is it in? If it's in really nice shape? Any rust issues typical of an east coast car?

I would just get it running & drive it as is. While I love the subaru drivetrain in the 914. I hate to see a really nice stock 914 cut up for a conversion. With the values being where they are. Even a nice 1.7 motor car is worth more in stock form.

[drem914]

One just sold for $2k and Mcmark has a fresh rebuilt long block for $4k. Doesn’t get much better then that. Pull your engine, set aside if it’s numbers matching and build up the 2.0.

The pathway noted above is is the way I went. I pulled my matching numbers FI engine and crated it. Put in a dual-carb 2.2L type 4. with a bunch more HP from another member here that was doing a 6 conversion and haven't been happier. If the 2.2 ever fails I can rebuild the 2.2 or just drop the original back in, no harm no foul.