LS1 or smokin hot type 4 ?, Driveability ? Options

[Spoke]

I'm in the market for an engine more powerful than the 1.8L T4 now in my car.

Details about my 914: its a rust bucket from the rust belt; mostly repaired. Twisted frame from rear-end collision; reconstructed title; probably not worth that much. 911 3-in front suspension; redrilled 5-lug rear hubs with vented rotors; 6x16 front Fuchs; 7x16 rear Fuchs. Runs well and starts every time.

So the car isn't worth that much and I want more power. What is the most cost effective engine swap? I'm not looking for a killer engine, just something with 100-150 HP or so that won't break the bank.

I have a 2L core that I was intending to rebuild but not sure if the rebuild cost will eclipse the car's value so I'm thinking of other engine possibilities.

[mgp4591]

How bad is the rust? I know from browsing around the site that it seems to be a variable term- even mine is getting the floors replaced along with a minor hell hole issue before my new drivetrain goes in but mine has good longs and a decent body. Is it a little work or alot of work? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

[veekry9]

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=247964

The v8 was ditched long ago. Car has been a roller for 2 years at least now. The buick 215 weight wise was great. I was still just under 2200lbs with my 70 914 with it in there. That motor is really deep with the water pump really sticking out. With my tranny in the stock location they cut out the firewall & made a cap for it to work. I had plans of putting an LS1 in its place. Even had the motor for a while but just didn't have the time to get to it. Eventually sold the motor.

I bought my current suby not long after. Just love that car & really love the subaru conversions period. Was figuring on a eg33 six but the WRX turbo motor is great. So when that came up I jumped.

For this setup I don't want to reinvent the wheel. It may go in as close to how it came out as possible. I am looking at all my options with it. Which include what I can do to improve the setup. I'd love nothing more than to throw it in & drive it. At the same time if I need to make some changes. I want to do it all before its in.

As it stands I need to do something different to mount the motor. I don't have a cradle for it. I might be able to copy my current cradle on the 2.5. I don't think I can & keep the motor with exhaust as it sits. I like the idea of coming from the front as it takes the exhaust out of the equation. Even using the headers to move the turbo in front would work with that mount. I won't know until I get it here & can physically compare things. I would like to do this the easiest way possible. Ideally if I can bolt is up with it's current setup. I will do that & just figure a way to mount it. Whatever I end up doing I will document here in this thread. The build threads are the best here when people post what they did & why. Everyone here helps get it to a finished car. Thats why I posted to get input from those who may have a better way. I don't claim to be a genius by any means (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

Q
The v8 was ditched long ago. Car has been a roller for 2 years at least now. The buick 215 weight wise was great. I was still just under 2200lbs with my 70 914 with it in there. That motor is really deep with the water pump really sticking out. With my tranny in the stock location they cut out the firewall & made a cap for it to work.
Q
Yeah for sure the waterpump should be moved to fit nicely in a 914 without any firewall butchery.
Lose the dizzy,cut the crank back closer to the timing chain or gear and fab a lightweight cover.
Use a thinner damper and serpentine ancillary drive.The why of it is of course the iron sleeves rather than the coated aluminum bores.
The wedge heads work just fine until your power demand becomes greater than what they can flow.SirJack cast his own heads and won big.

[sixnotfour]

You're Real question should be Durability.....T-4 wont last compared to LS1.....compromise subaroooooooooo

[914work]

Durability? Ok so back to intentions. Most of us dont use these cars as daily drivers, (Hmm maybe that's worth a POLL) so should that even be a consideration?

[JRust]

Yes I ran the buick 215 v8 for about 4 years. Oil leaks are definitely an issue you'll deal with. Mine was built & supposedly putting out 260hp. From my rear I would say it was more like 180 or so. You can make it work but with the suby options & the LS1 I don't know why you would. You still need to do an adapter plate & all the conversion stuff you'd need with any water cooled car. So while you can get the 215 to work. You'd spend more getting it right than using a newer motor.

[veekry9]

KENNEDY ENGINEERED PRODUCTS
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Palmdale, California, 93550
(661) 272–1147
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email: kennedy@kennedyeng.com

KEP P#1000

Buick/Olds to 914/VW TX

[veekry9]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNfq310iOTI


Hmm..an F1 winning block in a 914.Sure,that can work with a little calculating.



This is the bottom end of the RepcoBrabham block.
Steel caps and cross bolted with a modified y-block skirt.
Billet 4340 crank and rods.
A custom camchain housing was cast up and fastened to the front of the block.
The coolant passages moved from the front.
Beautiful.

[sixnotfour]

Durability? Ok so back to intentions. Most of us dont use these cars as daily drivers, (Hmm maybe that's worth a POLL) so should that even be a consideration?

Youre kidding Right ?? hooped up t-4 compared to LS-1... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif)

An LS1 is 350 hp and with the factory injection will both start and run like a dream.

A real done up type 4 will sound much nicer but obviolsuy about a bit more than half the power.

[veekry9]

This is the stock Oldsmobile 215 block in 1965 as modified by Jack Brabham.

High stack injection,a dizzy run off the back of the chain drive or a stub shaft in the valley.The waterpump is driven by the stubshaft.
The coolant pipes are brazed tubing directing water to the block and heads.The drysump scavenger pump is driven by a Gilmer belt.
Some of these ideas are suitable for a shorter engine length to fit more easily in the 914 bay.
A transverse installation is also possible with a wide selection of FWD gearboxes both auto and manual for cheap.

http://rodneydickman.com/getraginfo.htm

A Northstar+F40 Getrag 6spd is a viable option for 300+ hp

http://www.richardmoser.com/DOHC.htm
http://www.richardmoser.com/
A really sharp engineer.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol-2.gif)
That's hilarious,I had pants similar to those,bells in the '70s,a fad fashion statement.

[veekry9]

A few links to mid engine projects.Northstar + G6 TX.DOHC V6s.

http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum3/HTML/000030.html
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum3/HTML/000028.html
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum3/HTML/000137.html
http://60degreev6.com/forum/group.php?disc...&do=discuss
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/117227.html

Some skilled work going on here.Go ahead,look around.

[Rand]

Is it just me who feels like our 914 forum is getting overloaded with a bunch of stuff we don't want lately? I don't care about the junk that belongs in a Fiero forum et al. So much so I suspect this is why that other thread got locked because of it. Slow down man and focus.

[Mike Bellis]

Is it just me who feels like our 914 forum is getting overloaded with a bunch of stuff we don't want lately? I don't care about the junk that belongs in a Fiero forum et al.

Veekry9 is a borderline spammer but he does come up with cool stuff sometimes... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[veekry9]

Hey everyone, just considering the above.

An LS1 is 350 hp and with the factory injection will both start and run like a dream.

A real done up type 4 will sound much nicer but obviolsuy about a bit more than half the power.

Where can you shove an LS1?The cost the criteria.
A poo caller has interjected a poo poo,a Narpinista.You have your opinion,tho useless.Focus on that.
A 30K 914 is not this.Bang for buck an American V8 is hard to beat in North America,the recyclers have plenty for cheap.
A contention we all have to do it the same is a fallacy,hot air.An aluminum V8 manufactured since the time of 356 is still a viable candidate in 2015.A Northstar coated bore V8 is also a good fit as you can see clearly on the Fiero site.Plenty of Americans have created their own mids with good performance and economy.To answer the question of what to do with his 914,"Anything he wants".

http://www.ebay.com/itm/99-00-01-Range-Rov...50161&rt=nc
This is a bargain.

[veekry9]

I'm in the market for an engine more powerful than the 1.8L T4 now in my car.

Details about my 914: its a rust bucket from the rust belt; mostly repaired. Twisted frame from rear-end collision; reconstructed title; probably not worth that much. 911 3-in front suspension; redrilled 5-lug rear hubs with vented rotors; 6x16 front Fuchs; 7x16 rear Fuchs. Runs well and starts every time.

So the car isn't worth that much and I want more power. What is the most cost effective engine swap? I'm not looking for a killer engine, just something with 100-150 HP or so that won't break the bank.

I have a 2L core that I was intending to rebuild but not sure if the rebuild cost will eclipse the car's value so I'm thinking of other engine possibilities.

A fine selection of cheap used blocks and TX are available for your perusal here online,a great advantage over the netless past.
Would 220 hp be ok at the same cost of 150?A four,six or eight,what is the desired smoothness and at what economy?
Shall you be force feeding the holes or just sucking it in?What is your budget for this re-engineering of a rusted relic?
Pertinent queries to be resolved only by you,I have no doubt the lighting will be modern.If the Targa is worth 4k and a 2k budget for the engine,a 16V-4 makes sense for economy and reliability,a cornucopia of choice awaits you.
Perhaps a Chevy.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Chevrolet-Pontiac-...D-/171040302671
Wish to keep it in the family?Jump at this one,going fast.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1991-Porsche-944-S...965293#shpCntId

[veekry9]

04-LS1-GTO shaved of the ancillaries will fit nicely with room for a damper,shorter than stock.
Piping will be necessary to the coolant passages,welded tubing to a remote pump,driven by a jackshaft perhaps.
The deep pan will be discarded for a dry sump system.The ancillaries driven by a serpentine belt.
A plan to install an engine for your highpowered 914 must be just that a plan,making drawings of parts to fit.
Stretching the wheelbase is an option if a custom 914 is considered.Part of a plan.
A modification of the suspension to suit the changed CG and CM likely be necessary to suit those changed conditions.
Is it possible to fit an LS1 without cutting the firewall front and rear?Maybe,a tape measure is handy.
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum3/HTML/000137.html

[thelogo]

Isn't the best way to do it just to go the kit car route

Where you just use everything from a donor corvette

Enging !
Trans?
Brakes

And on and on ???


Suspension ???

And you would always have parts readily available

[thelogo]

And can someone tell me what is so special

About the renegade hybrid setup

[veekry9]

Well,the trans won't fit in a 914 mid firstly and I want a 914 to modify in my own way.
A number of fine 914s are on the market for the original experience,pony up the dough.
A rusted hulk of a 914 with mice nests is what some are starting with on their journey to 914 valhalla.
My take is,with that amount of labour I can make and have my own flavour.



Not for me ,but I like what he did,looks a little like the Vette you mentioned.

[thelogo]

Well,the trans won't in a 914 mid firstly and I want a 914 to modify in my own way.
A number of fine 914s are on the market for the original experience,pony up the dough.
A rusted hulk of a 914 with mice nests is what some are starting with on their journey to 914 valhalla.
My take is,with that amount of labour I can make and have my own flavour.



Not for me ,but I like what he did,looks a little like the Vette you mentioned.

I know I said use everything from a donor car

But not the taillights (IMG:style_emoticons/default/WTF.gif)