http://www.elgincams.com/catalog.html

ELGIN PORSCHE 911 CAMS

GRIND
SEAT DURATION
VALVE LIFT
LOBE CENTER
LIFT AT LAP

T cis and 930 turbo
245 I

238 E
.368

.339
108
0.5-0.7 mm for cis 911T

0.65-0.80 mm for 1978-81 30 turbo

S cis
255 I

238 E
.401

.339
113
0.4-0.54 mm

For Improved Stock, use high # of range.

SC cis
268 I

258 E
.450

.395
113
1.4-1.7 mm 1978-80 R.o.w., 1980-83 US SC. 0.9-1.1 mm 1976-77 3.0 Carrera. 1978-79 US SC, 1981-3 R.o.w. 911SC.

1.1-1.4 mm 1984-87 3.2 Carrera.

For imporved stock, use high # of range.

C2 and C4
280 I

262 E
.470

.430
113
1.26 mm +/- .1mm for 911 Carrera 2/4

T carb.
260 I

254 E
.385

.345
105
2.3-2.7 mm

2.4-2.8 mm 1972-3

E or L carb.
270 I

260 E
.405

.390
102
3.0-3.3 mm

1966 SOLEX
280 I

270 E
.440

.405
97
4.2-4.6 mm

S carb.
300 I

270 E
.450

.395
98
5.0-5.4 mm

Mod. S
296 I

2767 E
.470

.440
102
4.5 mm

306/288
306 I

288 E
.496

.463
102
5.0 mm

310/296
310 I

296 E
.490

.465
100
6.0 mm

315/300
315 I

300 E
.504

.471
100
5.8 mm

906 Carrera
318 I

292 E
.460

.403
95
6.8 mm +/- 0.1 mm

SPRINT RSR
318 I

300 E
.460

.450
101
6.8 mm

320/304
320 I

304 E
.510

.480
100
6.5 mm

IMSA
342 I

321 E
.525

.500
100
7.2-7.4 mm

Group B Turbo
269 I

254 E
.370

.337
106
1.8-1.9 mm

ELGIN Mod B
270 I

255 E
.402

.399
106
2.9-3.3 mm

ELGIN Turbo
266 I

252 E
.454

.418
108
2.2 mm

2.2 T's had carbs (Zeniths). All the 2.4's (plus the 2.7RS of course) had MFI until the switch to CIS in 73.5...

Unless my memory has completely failed...

Jeff has listed intake valve height at TDC overlap on #1 or #4....your timing point for 911 cams. Look at the Solex cams, 4.2-4.6 mm at overlap (I'm most familar with that), T cams are 2.3-2.7 except 2.4L 72-73 With Zenith@ 2.4-2.8mm.
IMO, the best/easiest way to check for cam type.

So I just measure the circle base and then the highest point on the lobe? I can do that today.

What do you mean by overlap?
I'm new to the /6 (even though I've built a couple, long ago) so I may ask some dumb questions or use the wrong terminology.

You measure the valve lift (I do it on the retainer) while the cams are installed at 360 deg from TDC......TDC overlap. Your Z1 mark is either TDC or TDC overlap when it is lined up on the case split. You have to be able to turn the crank, of course. You'll need a dial indicator with an inch (not unusal) of travel and a way to hold it solid. I have such a rig but it's sold to pete-sever.......if he sends money. Otherwise I'd loan it to ya.

Couple of "V" blocks and a dial indicator*** .... set dial at "0" on the base circle and rotate ... gives you total lift on the lobe .... multiply by rocker ratio and you have actual lift at the valve.

Otherwise ... same method with cam in housing and decrease by rocker ratio if measuring at the valve retainer.

At least I think it's this simple and how I did it for years.

Now, determination of opening and closing and duration is another matter all together.

*** If the cam is out of the housing

I've done that with calipers X 1.5.....quick & dirty if you have a good idea of what the cam should be....but.... with the difference between say Solex & E cams, you can get it wrong without checking lobe centers & duration.

Yes Sir JP, but then you forgot to mention mounting a degree wheel on the crank pulley to get those figures. And do you measure duration at 0.050" or beginning of indicator movement?

wow KISS
check the overlap while the motors together ,at least you will have some idea without tearing it apart if you are not ready to.
Its also a good reference JIC it has some reground cam.

I thought he wanted to do it while the cams are installed in his motor. Removing/reinstalling/timing cams is a bitch....I'd sure as hell not go there. The TDC overlap is almost bullet proof. Nothing but an indicator is needed......but it's wise to do both 1 & 4 for comparison. I'm not advocating checking cam specs, just pointing out possible errors.

I did this in metric, so the inch figure is a conversion.

Lift at cam 6.85mm (.270)
total lift at valve 7.80mm (.312)

How do I measure duration?
Measuring the start of the cam opening to close, it's about a 300* rotation on the crank. (rough guess with a VW bug degree pulley).

I don't understand your numbers.

I'll have to do it again, I borrowed a metric dial indcator, I've never used a metric one before, it seemed like a lot more lift than .312


Am I just measuring the total lift on the intake lobe of the cam? or both the exhaust and intake?

I'm a six newbie don't forget...got any pics?

set #1 TDC
zero indicator #1 intake valve
roll engine untill #4 TDC at this point #1 will be at overlap.
take indicator reading.

lift at overlap is the factory version of dialing in the cam.

set #1 TDC
zero indicator #1 intake valve
roll engine untill #4 TDC at this point #1 will be at overlap.
take indicator reading.

lift at overlap is the factory version of dialing in the cam.

Your cam lift makes a bit of sense when mulitplied by 1.5....rough rocker ratio.....giving .404 inches.....damn close to the E cam intake lift. But that .312.....

Fuch it, I need better instructions....doesn't help when you have no book and are dyslexic as shit.
Am i suppose to be reading the cam lift or the lift at the valve (retainer) which for me is easy as I have P-207 and the proper dial indicator.

"0" at #1 TDC with the indicator on the cam intake #1,
I get a negative number, -.15mm when on #4 TDC

Is there a "how to " on this anywhere?

bacause your Not at TDC firing #1 when you start


ya the manual

Great my factory manual only has the /4....guess I have to buy one to know the firing order

I thought TDC was the same on all cars, intake closes , then compression and then TDC....# 4 looks like one full revolution to it's TDC...

Dizzy pointing to the little line for #1 and I know how to read the timing marks, the mark on the flywheel even looks spot on.....I guess I'm not doing it right

(911 view ) "Front of Car" is the flywheel end.

Ok I have that right....I didn't really need the firing order I can see it when I roll the engine...just pissed because I can't figure this out.

If I can find the PDF of the manual, will PM the file to you.

Should be 1432....and then 56

Easy way to remember...

16 is too young.
24 is just right.
35 is too old.

This actually sound right to me, that is if by a negative number you mean the dial indicator has extended out as the intake valve moved down (opened).

You set it up on TDC #1 and zero'd the dial indicator on #1 intake valve.
You turned the crank 1 full turn to TDC #4 which is where #1 in in overlap, which mean both the intake valve and exhaust valve are partially open.
The measurement you got would be the cam timing that is currently set on you engine. I don't know how precise you were when you came up on TDC #4 but you need to be very careful and stop just as you reach the mark. You also need the valve adjusted carefully and the cam chain tensioned. This will not tell you which cam you have though just your cam timing.
Have you popped the chain cover off and checked to see if you can read the cam designation stamped on the end of the cam?
I don't recall all the designations but factory cams are stamped on the end by the sprocket and the numbers can be looked up. 6 digit number should start with 911.

Good luck.

Jim

I can't get an accurate measurement off of the cam.

I have P-207 and off of the retainer (valve) I'm getting 3.61mm overlap

so 3.61mm divided by 1.5 is.....?

2.40mm ??

3.6mm is your TDC overlap.....that's gud!! Now you go to Jeff's list of cams and see which cam is supposed to have 3.6mm of overlap.

#3.0 to 3.3 is damn close to E cam spec for timing, but not enough for Solex. The cam may advanced slightly, your methodology may be off a tocuch....make sure the indicitor shaft is square to the retainer. Roll it back to #1 TDC and your indicator should be 0. Do it a couple times more then check the other side ....#4.

Be happy Mark. Is it possible that the numbers Jeff put up are measured as total lift and the rocker ratio doesn't apply.

We used your method ... dial indicator on retainer when setting the cams. The lift matched the specification listed in Wayne Dempsey's book.

They are total lift at the valve.

double checked very careful to roll it perfect 3.63mm

I only see 3.3 for the E/L carb or the elgin "mod B"

like JP said double check by measuring #4 at overlap.


At least now you know where they were set regaurdless of what they are when removed.

probably E or custom advanced or regrind or set wrong.

The chart is lift at the valve at overlap in MM.

good job

I wouldn't think that an "E" cam was all that bad ... it's a step up from "T".

The E is an excellent street cam.

Guess I was smokin last night plus I'm getting blind in my old age...

Got my head around this now #1 is 2.85mm and #4 2.68mm
The Little bastard™ is just a 2.2T (72-73)

core

Oh well you cant win them all, still worth it, I did get a set of 40IDA's and a 69S dizzy

There is another 2.2T core local but then I'd have two bags of

Anyone got something interesting for sale? or trade for type 4 parts?

67 S cams and 69 S Ported heads that sat for 20 years in the car. I am putting on fresh 2.7s heads and a custom cam. This is to get better mid range power.

Bob

It would be cool to have a mighty mouse engine, I can even get JE repops of the S pistons and cylinders ($1500), but bigger is better and the rebuild costs the same.
I know where some cores are and I have the whole winter to scrounge.

I'll rip the top end down on the bastard 2.2 and see if it just needs rings and a valve job or if it has some pulled head studs. If I have to split the case then it's parts on ebay.

rare on a 2.2

Click to view attachment

Well my engine is interesting but not special.

The only real bonus is the 2.0 biral cylinders 80mm, they do look like they just need honing, no ridge.

Pistons are from a 68 (T, I think) and two are pooched.
heads are small valve 69T
cams are T

Short block still needs looking into, but it doesn't look good if it's like the top end.

Now what to do....

Those cylinders are very good news indeed. IF the case has pistons squirters & the crank is good, you have the makings of a good small bore hot rod motor should you choose to go that way. It would require some time, effort, and money.......but not a huge amount of the latter.

The Pelican engine rebuild/classifieds site is your friend for 9eleben engine stuff.

Crank and rods looking OK, pins are tight in the small end of the rods but, '69T case so no squirters.

I know you can get the JE's 69S pistons,but it's only a 2.0
Rebuilds are about the same regardless of size and I know where a 2.7 is lurking.

Lets say I was to do a little screamer....
The bottom end of a 2.2 is the same with squirter's, right?
I can't figure out who sells JE 69S pistons other than the ebay guy and thats a kit with china cylinders. Plus I need a bore as they are 82.5mm. Real 69S pistons are rare.
Custom JE pistons from LN are $1K

Do 2.2 heads fit on 2.0 cylinder?

Done a bit of research, much more needed.

Your cylinders can be bored to 84mm, IIRC (IIRC means you'd better check). 2.2L pistons are often available used.....9.8 :1 compression in the S model. The 2.2L case has squirters, IIRC.


The 2.7L is not cheap to hotrod assuming you find a straight one....unless you find some RS P/Cs at a very good price. Even then the 8.5:1 compression is not all that hot. I admit to being lucky with the long block I got for $500....with RS P/Cs.
A lot of work went into it....being a CSOB helped. Proper head studs are a killer expense....case savers, yada.
That said, even a stocker will give you a ride.

I almost have the other side off, about an hour to go.
I think this side is OK as it had the good numbers.

Spoke too soon, short block is a fail. Got a rod standing up on its own.

I thought that engine was supposed to be a runner?

No it never was, during the haggling, story is he said it was suppose to have "hot cams" and I said "that's great but it's just a 2.0 core and worth maybe $500 in the deal". It rolled over OK, so it seemed.

I got the 80mm birals, dizzy, flywheel and PP, and 2.0T core parts, I'm still doing OK on the deal.

It's ads like this why I recommend the pelican 911 classifieds. If you need a part, look often.....I go about 3-4 times a day when I'm on the hunt.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911...-f-s-trade.html

I don't know the guy.

I got a set of NIB Mahle 10.5 :1 P/Cs that had been on there for 15 minutes..2800 bucks..... about half the price of new from Andial...if they had em'.

Gee thanks JP.....

Problem is I have to whore a whole boatload of type 4, 914 and bug parts before I have the cash for this money pit.