Full Version: Converting to a 914-6
Don't thank me just yet Trekkor, wait until you get the prototype bell crank I am sending you.
So the 914-6 project is essentaily a done one, thus some of you know I am starting on a 914-4 project for my wife. Both cars are really "ours" as "we" take them places. Although she can't do 99% of the work on either of them, I think she likes to just be involved, which rocks. 
So here is a picture after I lowered the 914 and added rear wheel spacers to take up the space still left in the rear fender well. I also hand cut out my 914-6 2.2 stickers. I think they look good. 
So here is a picture after I lowered the 914 and added rear wheel spacers to take up the space still left in the rear fender well. I also hand cut out my 914-6 2.2 stickers. I think they look good.
Another
Dan , what color is that?
| QUOTE (rdauenhauer @ Dec 20 2004, 10:52 AM) |
| Dan , what color is that? |
L20E Signal Orange, my favorite color. sixnotfour on the club here found it for me in September as a lonely sitting in someone's field 914-4 1.7. I did the conversion in a rush (6 weeks) from dented front fendered stock 914 to what you see there. Then we drove it to a PCA Whistler event in Canada. It also has heater boxes I made myself. I recently added heat sheilds to them because they would cool off too much when going over 60mph. Two electric fans run through my heater tubes so you get massive heat even at an idle.
Can you tell I love my car?
Very nicely done... 
And thanks for posting the steps needed to convert to a -6...
And thanks for posting the steps needed to convert to a -6...
> Two electric fans run through my heater tubes so you get massive heat even at an idle.
Tell me more about this... Inline fans? Pictures?
-Steve
Tell me more about this... Inline fans? Pictures?
-Steve
| QUOTE (siverson @ Dec 20 2004, 12:24 PM) |
| > Two electric fans run through my heater tubes so you get massive heat even at an idle. Tell me more about this... Inline fans? Pictures? -Steve |
I will get some pic's of the system set up. I used two 914-4 electric fans mounted above each side of the trans, then ran two "tubes" I welded onto cheapo bursch headers. Later added a heat sheild to one side (testing heat loss at speed). Dang, the work awesome! But you bet, I will take some pics for folks soon. I have heard we got a nice dig camera for X-mas.
Ya Dan, I wanna see yer heater also. It sounds simple and effective. Odd that you are actually trying to keep a part of your engine warm for a change. Does the heater system cause the engine to retain anymore heat, dissipate meore heat, nothing, both, leave me alone and go away?
Dan, as soon as you mentioned inline electric fans, I right away thought of 12v marine bilge blowers. They really move air and are pretty quiet and cheap. 
I'd like to see your heat exchanger design. I'd like to build some myself.
KT
I'd like to see your heat exchanger design. I'd like to build some myself.
KT
| QUOTE (Dr Evil @ Dec 20 2004, 02:51 PM) |
| Ya Dan, I wanna see yer heater also. It sounds simple and effective. Odd that you are actually trying to keep a part of your engine warm for a change. Does the heater system cause the engine to retain anymore heat, dissipate meore heat, nothing, both, leave me alone and go away? |
Not to worry oh Evil one, pic's will come, but probably not until after X-mas. I purposely added a heat sheild to only the drivers side so I could take pic's for 914'ers, one side done, one side half done.
No heat added to engine compartment at all. So far the only bummer is they probably wiegh close to what the factory heater boxes do. So no real wieght savings with my system. But it works great and I am sure my design could be improved upon by others.
| QUOTE (trekkor @ Dec 20 2004, 04:58 PM) |
| Dan, as soon as you mentioned inline electric fans, I right away thought of 12v marine bilge blowers. They really move air and are pretty quiet and cheap. |
Me too
| QUOTE (sanman @ Dec 21 2004, 08:36 AM) | ||
Me too |
I thought of that as well and someone could probably use them after seeing how I grabbed heat from my headers. I just used 914-4 heaters I had laying around from previous conversions. I always pulled the elec fans out and just boxed them. Had like 6-7 at one time. I think I have one that doesn't work, one that does and 2 I put on my 914-6. I want my camera now so I can so you guys what I did!
Time to go snooping under the tree. 
Well, figured out how the new dig camera works. I just jacked up the car and laid on the ground to take some pictures of the heater and how the 914-4 rear tin works with the 914-6 set up. So my angles on my shots could be a little goofy. 
This first one shows the left(drivers) side of the 914-4 tin. There are two things you need to do on this side. One is bend up the tin around the radious of where it sits on the bell housing. If you just flip the tin and set it on, it will be off center to the left too far. So you have to take and cut or bend ( I just bend ) the tin a little, not much so the tin sits center. You can do the fitting after the engine is installed or before. Doesn't matter. If you fit this rear tin piece with the engine out of the car, you won't have the body gasket to help center it with. So I install the two 914-6 side tin pieces to help show where center is. Once you get the tin centered, you can mark a hole for mounting. You can see I just used on bolt to mount on the left side. You don't need anything more than that.
Oh, you can also see part of my heater tube welded to the bursch headers. Not in this picture is the electric fan. But more on that later.
This first one shows the left(drivers) side of the 914-4 tin. There are two things you need to do on this side. One is bend up the tin around the radious of where it sits on the bell housing. If you just flip the tin and set it on, it will be off center to the left too far. So you have to take and cut or bend ( I just bend ) the tin a little, not much so the tin sits center. You can do the fitting after the engine is installed or before. Doesn't matter. If you fit this rear tin piece with the engine out of the car, you won't have the body gasket to help center it with. So I install the two 914-6 side tin pieces to help show where center is. Once you get the tin centered, you can mark a hole for mounting. You can see I just used on bolt to mount on the left side. You don't need anything more than that.
Oh, you can also see part of my heater tube welded to the bursch headers. Not in this picture is the electric fan. But more on that later.
Derr, how about a picture.
The red arrow shows the part where the tin needs to be bent back a little and the blue arrow shows about where the mounting bolt goes. just behind the heater tube out of sight. Sorry about that.
The red arrow shows the part where the tin needs to be bent back a little and the blue arrow shows about where the mounting bolt goes. just behind the heater tube out of sight. Sorry about that.
I'm right here scarfing this up 
KT
KT
Now the right (pass) side I F'd up on. It should be mounted higher than this. Another reason it is better to fit this piece when the engine is hanging in the car. This shot you can see a little better I just drilled one mounting hole. Works fine, but one of these days I will go back in and raise it up 1/2" so it touches the body gasket. The only thing you need to do on this side is drill one mounting hole and drill out a larger hole for the throttle rod assuming you are using either the stock 914-6 bell crank or my superior 914-4 to 914-6 bell crank kit. The larger hole is not an exact science, I drill probably more than I need to, push the rod through, dang, a little more off the side.... fit again sort of thing.
The only thing you need to do on this side is drill one mounting hole and drill out a larger hole for the throttle rod assuming you are using either the stock 914-6 bell crank or my superior 914-4 to 914-6 bell crank kit. The larger hole is not an exact science, I drill probably more than I need to, push the rod through, dang, a little more off the side.... fit again sort of thing.
Actually, let me add some more to this picture. I circled where you have 3 threaded holes in the cam cap to choose from. I should have drilled the top one. Note my mounting bolt is almost not on the tin. I should have raised it up just a little and used the top mounting hole.
Also, I circled the bell crank throttle rod. You can't really see the hole I made all that well, but you get the idea.
Hey, it isn't perfect, but it is free and fits pretty dam nice if you don't rush like I did on this one. I have done this a couple of times and have had better fits than this. I shouldn't have rushed. But I was out of time when I did this.
Also, I circled the bell crank throttle rod. You can't really see the hole I made all that well, but you get the idea.
Hey, it isn't perfect, but it is free and fits pretty dam nice if you don't rush like I did on this one. I have done this a couple of times and have had better fits than this. I shouldn't have rushed. But I was out of time when I did this.
Sort of moving along to the heater set up I have. one fan mounted on each side. You can see the fan and the tube as it bends up from the headers. What I used to hang both fans was an exhaust hanger from a local FLAPS. I welded it onto the body of the car adn just bolted the fan on. Done deal.
Here is a better shot of the piece of 2 1/2" exhaust pipe I welded onto the headers and the flow of air. This is the right side heater tube with no heat sheild on it. In town, the tube retains heat and works awesome. When you pick up speed, it cools the tube down more than I like. I will show a picture of the left side tube/heatshield next.
Bummer, I didn't bring the left side heater tube picture with me. 
Oh well, here is a couple of shots of the bell crank throttle linkage installed, the hole in the rear tin etc...
Oh well, here is a couple of shots of the bell crank throttle linkage installed, the hole in the rear tin etc...
Last one I brought with me today.
Here's my Root Bell Crank install...
Thanks Dan!
KT
Thanks Dan!
KT
I'll do the sheet metal tonight or tomorrow depending on how tired I am after work. 
Pics to follow, of course.
KT
Pics to follow, of course.
KT
Sweet! can't wait to see more pics of the install!Yep, trekkor has my prototype bell crank. I just got lucky with the angles and dimensions. They work really good, very smooth and linear in travel. I have sold like 15 now. Easy install/adjustment.
QUOTE(Root_Werks @ Aug 5 2004, 11:24 AM) 
Okay, so this is about the 5th 914-6 conversion I have done. They are all drivers to this day. Heck, Even Craigh Laughlin has one of my old ones! My goal is to put as many 914-6's out on the road as possible since I think that is what the desing intended for them to be anyway. Anyway, I have heard soem thoughts about costs or how hard it is to convert. Nah, just time really. yeah, a few parts, but mostly just some time. Lets visit the part$ shall we. You will probalby need the following (as in not worth making):
Tank - Lots-o-options, but don't spend over $500 on one
Headers - $450 - 500
Mount - Zowie! Lots-o-options here as well. I have a jig to make my own, it works, but takes time. It is not hard, but takes a lot of time. I gave up and grabbed a patrick moly mount just today. I am running out of time.
Everyting else, you can make or do yourself. I will show you how in this thread over the next couple of weeks since that is all the time I have left!
Here is a shot of the holes drilled for the oil tank. Yep, I am using a Vellios tank yet again. They work great and use the later filters. Also, you can go down to your local industrial supply shop and have them make the pressure hose for like $40. The suction hose is even easier, but more on that later.
Wow you seem Knowledgeable on the 914/6 conversion .
Iam building a 94/6 and am using a 3.0 form a 81 911 sc ..I am sticking with the injectors .... all is ready only no spark..NO Spark.. none...zip but all is good coil etc.etc If you have any suggestions and can help please let me know or if you know someone who can help please point me ion the right direction.thanks in advance....Regards Phil
QUOTE(Phil Plummer @ Mar 6 2013, 06:52 PM)
if you know someone who can help please point me ion the right direction.
I can point you towards a good source for calendars since this thread is almost 10 years old ...
Now this thread is 16+ years young and what has changed, the once lowly 914 has
become reborn, everything is more expensive and we are in a pandemic. Our '74 rustout is being made whole once again and looking at options for a power plant. For now I am thinking building a reasonably stock 2 liter, maybe boost the compression a bit, maybe decent heads, cam, Webers ......
Considering starting to collect the parts/pieces for the conversion. I have not found Vellios, are they still making tanks? or is anybody making steel tanks?
thanks
become reborn, everything is more expensive and we are in a pandemic. Our '74 rustout is being made whole once again and looking at options for a power plant. For now I am thinking building a reasonably stock 2 liter, maybe boost the compression a bit, maybe decent heads, cam, Webers ......
Considering starting to collect the parts/pieces for the conversion. I have not found Vellios, are they still making tanks? or is anybody making steel tanks?
thanks
QUOTE(930cabman @ Jan 25 2021, 07:46 PM)
Now this thread is 16+ years young and what has changed, the once lowly 914 has
become reborn, everything is more expensive and we are in a pandemic. Our '74 rustout is being made whole once again and looking at options for a power plant. For now I am thinking building a reasonably stock 2 liter, maybe boost the compression a bit, maybe decent heads, cam, Webers ......
Considering starting to collect the parts/pieces for the conversion. I have not found Vellios, are they still making tanks? or is anybody making steel tanks?
thanks
Vellios hasn't made tanks in years. Ben/MB911 picked up the ball and ran with it. www.914-6Werkshop.com
QUOTE(mepstein @ Jan 25 2021, 05:24 PM)
QUOTE(930cabman @ Jan 25 2021, 07:46 PM)
Now this thread is 16+ years young and what has changed, the once lowly 914 has
become reborn, everything is more expensive and we are in a pandemic. Our '74 rustout is being made whole once again and looking at options for a power plant. For now I am thinking building a reasonably stock 2 liter, maybe boost the compression a bit, maybe decent heads, cam, Webers ......
Considering starting to collect the parts/pieces for the conversion. I have not found Vellios, are they still making tanks? or is anybody making steel tanks?
thanks
Vellios hasn't made tanks in years. Ben/MB911 picked up the ball and ran with it. www.914-6Werkshop.com
Vellios past away (RIP). All his left over parts were on Ebay awhile back.
QUOTE(Steve @ Jan 25 2021, 10:37 PM)
QUOTE(mepstein @ Jan 25 2021, 05:24 PM)
QUOTE(930cabman @ Jan 25 2021, 07:46 PM)
Now this thread is 16+ years young and what has changed, the once lowly 914 has
become reborn, everything is more expensive and we are in a pandemic. Our '74 rustout is being made whole once again and looking at options for a power plant. For now I am thinking building a reasonably stock 2 liter, maybe boost the compression a bit, maybe decent heads, cam, Webers ......
Considering starting to collect the parts/pieces for the conversion. I have not found Vellios, are they still making tanks? or is anybody making steel tanks?
thanks
Vellios hasn't made tanks in years. Ben/MB911 picked up the ball and ran with it. www.914-6Werkshop.com
Vellios past away (RIP). All his left over parts were onre Ebay awhile back.
Ben bought the Vellios tanks, finished them and re-sold them IIRC.
No engine build for a 914 is cheap anymore and a /6 build is close to 4x the cost (ballpark) of a /4 build now.
Is a -6 4x the fun?
QUOTE(930cabman @ Jan 26 2021, 04:02 AM)
Is a -6 4x the fun?
Yes they are to me but that is a question you have the answer for yourself..
Here is a tank I was working on last night.. I make almost everything needed for a conversion. Click to view attachment
914-6 aftermarket tanks have come a long way. I would use Ben's tank.
Some of my pictures....oye, I probably still have that digital camera someplace.
Some of my pictures....oye, I probably still have that digital camera someplace.
QUOTE(mb911 @ Jan 26 2021, 07:56 AM)
QUOTE(930cabman @ Jan 26 2021, 04:02 AM)
Is a -6 4x the fun?
Yes they are to me but that is a question you have the answer for yourself..
Here is a tank I was working on last night.. I make almost everything needed for a conversion. Click to view attachment
Very nice looking work. I am seeing a 2.7 fitting into our 914 rustout as a more and more viable option in place of building a 4 cyl. My trigger finger is almost ready to strike. How long will you be holding the "spring special" pricing for the RD metal and tank combo?
thanks
QUOTE(930cabman @ Jan 26 2021, 08:59 AM)
QUOTE(mb911 @ Jan 26 2021, 07:56 AM)
QUOTE(930cabman @ Jan 26 2021, 04:02 AM)
Is a -6 4x the fun?
Yes they are to me but that is a question you have the answer for yourself..
Here is a tank I was working on last night.. I make almost everything needed for a conversion. Click to view attachment
Very nice looking work. I am seeing a 2.7 fitting into our 914 rustout as a more and more viable option in place of building a 4 cyl. My trigger finger is almost ready to strike. How long will you be holding the "spring special" pricing for the RD metal and tank combo?
thanks
I only have 6 sets left of sheet metal and not sure the cost on my next batch will be..
If anticipating the 6 road, buy the tin NOW! If you change your mind you'll get what you paid for them. A RARITY!
QUOTE(rhodyguy @ Jan 26 2021, 10:09 AM)
If anticipating the 6 road, buy the tin NOW! If you change your mind you'll get what you paid for them. A RARITY!
Prices only seem to go up and supply comes and goes over the years.
I am on the fence to go the -6 route. It is looking like somewhere in the $6-7k range for a -4 build. Not sure if I have $20.k disposable income to go with a -6. Carbs or CIS? My decision is partly based on $$, but also getting road time this year. A -6 conversion seems quite a bit of additional work but I don't want to build a -4 and be unhappy with the lack of a decent kick.
Which ever route I take this 914 build will be compared to our '87 turbo cab.
Still working through several rustout sections with the chassis. RD has come to the rescue, but some stuff needs to be fabricated from scratch
Which ever route I take this 914 build will be compared to our '87 turbo cab.
Still working through several rustout sections with the chassis. RD has come to the rescue, but some stuff needs to be fabricated from scratch
QUOTE(930cabman @ Jan 26 2021, 07:04 PM)
I am on the fence to go the -6 route. It is looking like somewhere in the $6-7k range for a -4 build. Not sure if I have $20.k disposable income to go with a -6. Carbs or CIS? My decision is partly based on $$, but also getting road time this year. A -6 conversion seems quite a bit of additional work but I don't want to build a -4 and be unhappy with the lack of a decent kick.
Which ever route I take this 914 build will be compared to our '87 turbo cab.
Still working through several rustout sections with the chassis. RD has come to the rescue, but some stuff needs to be fabricated from scratch
This is why I can’t get the Subaru 6 conversion out of my head. Probably for the $6-7k, you could have it pretty well sorted with power on par with a 3.2 Carrera conversion in a revvy, smooth, reliable motor. I know, I know, it’s not the same, but....
1st. Smart money for performance is suby.
2nd 4cyl big build makes sense on really nice car that can easily turned back to stock as values are climbing like crazy. I consider this category a car that is in near excellent to perfect condition with minimal rust repair done or done to a level like @bbrock s
3rd 6cyl conversions for cars that are missing original engines or may have had major surgery like mine or @dion @superhawk996 going after a tribute 914-6 or GT car and has the hotrod vision like the factory did and the need for the 6 sound,smell, and emptier pockets. The good news is conversions are getting great money. Basically clean slate cars that struggle to be original but the owner has the sickness such as I. Remember the factory planned accordingly with the oil tank stampings.
2nd 4cyl big build makes sense on really nice car that can easily turned back to stock as values are climbing like crazy. I consider this category a car that is in near excellent to perfect condition with minimal rust repair done or done to a level like @bbrock s
3rd 6cyl conversions for cars that are missing original engines or may have had major surgery like mine or @dion @superhawk996 going after a tribute 914-6 or GT car and has the hotrod vision like the factory did and the need for the 6 sound,smell, and emptier pockets. The good news is conversions are getting great money. Basically clean slate cars that struggle to be original but the owner has the sickness such as I. Remember the factory planned accordingly with the oil tank stampings.
I would love to make ours a 6 but it is too original to mess with, ugh, the struggles I have. haha
QUOTE(930cabman @ Jan 26 2021, 04:04 PM)
I am on the fence to go the -6 route. It is looking like somewhere in the $6-7k range for a -4 build. Not sure if I have $20.k disposable income to go with a -6. Carbs or CIS? My decision is partly based on $$, but also getting road time this year. A -6 conversion seems quite a bit of additional work but I don't want to build a -4 and be unhappy with the lack of a decent kick.
Which ever route I take this 914 build will be compared to our '87 turbo cab.
Still working through several rustout sections with the chassis. RD has come to the rescue, but some stuff needs to be fabricated from scratch
I just made a decision to keep my race car a slightly larger 4 than go to an rs spec 6. I have the 6 core, and the car is already set up for a 6 (oiling/cooling, 5 lug, 911 A and M brakes, so all it needs is motor and mount.
I have a lightened flywheel bolted to a 2165 it sure is fun. For under $10k I’m getting a FAT built 2165 race motor (actually $7k but I get to use a few previous parts). Can’t touch that cost rebuilding the 6 myself. I briefly considered a subie, but water cooled really makes it more complicated than I wanted.
QUOTE(930cabman @ Jan 26 2021, 07:04 PM)
A -6 conversion seems quite a bit of additional work but I don't want to build a -4 and be unhappy with the lack of a decent kick.
Which ever route I take this 914 build will be compared to our '87 turbo cab.
@930cabman
If you're going to compare to a 87' tubo you bettter do a big six.
If youre going to compare a /4 on the basis of acceleration, to modern cars, you'll be disappointed. Modern Toyota Camry XSE good for 0-60 in 5.8 seconds.
914's are all about handling. In that domain, you will rarely be outgunned or disappointed.
If you decide on the /6 route, Ben's deal on RD tin cannot be beat. Buy now before price goes up.
QUOTE(infraredcalvin @ Jan 26 2021, 10:53 PM)
. . . I briefly considered a subie, but water cooled really makes it more complicated than I wanted.
QUOTE(flat4guy @ Jan 26 2021, 09:59 PM)
I would love to make ours a 6 but it is too original to mess with, ugh, the struggles I have. haha
Good problem to have, I have an early 911S in the same catagory.
Took the leap, the oil tank/engine tin is on the way from Ben, dropped off our 2.7 to a local engine builder for new head studs, ......
We have 6 sporting cars in the stable, all are too nice to cut up and bastardize. Hence, a 914 rustout with a 2.7. A go kart with a body
We have 6 sporting cars in the stable, all are too nice to cut up and bastardize. Hence, a 914 rustout with a 2.7. A go kart with a body
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