Note that there have been a couple of failures of Patrick's cross-bar mount. At least one was a 3.6 (lotsa torque!) but I think that there have been failures with smaller motors as well.

Patrick's response in those cases appears to have been, "Gee--that's too bad. We have an improved version now, want to buy one at full price?"

...I really can't recommend Rich's motor mount strongly enough!! (Yes, we do sell it at Pelican. Rich sells it as well, and I'm pretty sure other places do too.)

--DD

I'm afraid I'll have to make one. You see, I justified buying all these tools by telling my wife all the things I could make with them and how it would save money in the long run...

-Ben M.

Me too!


Trek

Trekkor,

when was the last time you saw a 9146 take TTOD ?


B

Our friend Bill Pickering...He's fast.

Trek

He took TTOD at our event. He hasnt had a TTOD at a PCA event...

Stick to your 4cyl.


B

Ah...how soon they forget.....

Yes...I took TTOD at 2004 WCC...

I have 2 LPR TTOD's and 1 GGR TTOD....

PCA stuff....

Now for the confession....

There are 2 regulars that I haven't beaten head to head when they show up...Steve Nieslony and Tom Provasi.

I've been been with thousandths of Steve....but it has to be a horsepower course...If it's Marina he'll kick my ass...With Tom....I've never been closer than half a second...on a tight course (Millerton Lake, Fresno). If it's on a HP course I haven't sniffed his exhaust....

Ultimately, I will not be able to be competitve in Auto-x if I continue with my plan for a dual purpose auto-x/track car...Steve, Andrew B., Brad, Randal, Trekkor can or are building lightweight cars. If it's a Nieslony killer (~1400lbs) you just can't beat that.

But I'll go down with my right foot to the floor!!!!

Bill P.

A Six will take TToD at any event that Provasi shows up to. (With a working car.) The Orange Crate has a large-displacement Six in it. It was a 3.5 when he bought it, but I think he's swapped or rebuilt the motor since then. Not sure if it went up or down in displacement...

A 914-6 has taken TToD at Parade just about every year for the last decade. Provasi (numerous times), Dave Ferguson, and one guy about three years ago whose name escapes me.

--DD

Bill, you were thousandth's behind Nieslony at Reno both days.

Breathe out as you cross the line and you take him!


Winter SIX is coming...don't try and stop me.

If I hate it, rebuilt big four goes back in with money from sold SIX.

I can't lose

Crazy T

Oh and BTW, I'll never take TTOD in a street legal 4 or 6.
Don't know if anyone has?
It's for fun. I'll never be a real racer.

Root Works, proceed. Lead us to the SIX!

Trekkor

Brad:

I thought you were a big 6 guy? You like 4s better?

Of course you do.....but it didn't happen at a GGR AX, so it ain't real

I was more impressed with Doug Skinner's driving my car to 2, 2nd OA finishes last year
at SCCA events.....Nuthin' compared to GGR, tho.

All the teeners on this BBS crack me up. It is so cool how one small statement can lead into a large disscussion thread about TToD's in 914's. That rocks!

So anyway, I will have to take better pictures of this with my regular camera. Seems my $25 digital one is not up to the task.

So here is one of the shots (terrible I know) of my home made bell crank throttle linkage. I will post better pictures later on. Lets look a little at what a did and why I did it that way:

I started out finding I one ball and two cups. What I mean by that is one little throttle linkage ball and two of the snap on cups that thread onto throttle linkage rod. I also went down to the hardware store and purchased 3/16 rod for $1.99 which I used about half of it for this job. Oooooh, big money huh? What do Bell Cranks cost? $300? It took me an hour to make this one. I promise better pitcures will come. In this picture if you can see it (no flash, DERRRR!) Is the completed set up. I used the factory 914-4 cable....oh, get how I hooked it up, I used the cable clamp system off of one of the heater valves, so there is one other part needed. Notice the cable comes from above the CV and is even above the rod..... If you can see it, again sorry about that. I do this to ease the pull and help keep it simple and progressive. When I made the pivot for this, I made sure my pull was equal for both cable and rod.

So I welded 2 small pieces of steel brackets together. One 90 to hold the cable welded onto a flat bar with holes drilled into it to mount the pivot to. I think you can see how I mounted all this on the trans. Simple, just a few brackets laying around the garage did the trick. Each one of these I have done has been a little different since I have never used the same parts to make it. Just what is lying around. WHich means this is a simple item to make. Don't think about it that much, you are just changing the direction of a pull, simple. Here is another sucky shot of the rod I made that goes up to the carb's. That's it, the rest up there in the engine bay is all stock. You can sort of make out the rod below the cable, but both still above the CV.

No it doesn't rub on anything and yes, the throttle form inside the car is smooth.

I will probably take my unit back off the car and take pictures of it. My wife and I drove the 914 around last night for the first time as a 914-6, so I was sort of excited to get things just on and done. But for the sake of readers on this thread, I will remove it and get more details on it.

So here is yet another sucky shot of the rod I made coming up to the carbs. What I did with the rod was thread one end about 1.5" down the rod using a 5x1.0 tap(or is it die?) Screwed on a little nut and the cup, snapped it on the carb end, held up the pivoted linkage I made until it was about where I wanted it, marked the rod. I cut the rod, threaded the other end and presto, done. About the only factors in the length of the rod were how long the cable was so I wouldn't have to modify that. You want to use a factory 914-4 cable. They are cheap and you can get them almost anywhere. Plus I have tons and tons of adjustment room.

You need to make a better camera

So lets switch gears a little and talk about the wiring. Again, keeping things simple lets do the charging system first. Talk about easy and straight forward. I love this stuff! You have your one large terminal on the back of the alt which you can run down to your starter terminal (the big one) I belive that one is B+. Then you have DF, D- and D+ ( Think that is them?) Anyway, you just have to match them up to the terminals on the 914 regulator, they are the same. BUUUT, you want to use the circut board so your idiot light will work. One trick on this one. Take the voltage reg off and you would think it would be:


........| DF
| D- Say this one is on the reg you pulled off.
........| D+

........| D+
| D- Well, the two terms are flipped on the circut board. Nice huh?

Oh, here is a shot so you can sort of see the breather hose. What did I use? 1 1/16" thick soft oil line from the industrail supply store and one of their 90degree plastic bends. So just like the factory, I have a short piece that comes off the filler neck to the 90 and then the longer piece that goes down to the block. Easy stuff!

Driving impressions:

Well this is only a 2.2T, but what a great sound and what a great flat torque curve! I love it! I still have tuning to do for sure. This engine and the carbs sat around for a while. But it runs strong and burns really clean. I noticed while out driving I wound up getting my shiffter bar off a few degrees. Luckily there is adjustment for that, so no problem there. I have to touch my lock out to keep it in the 2-3 plane when it should be only the R-1 plane. Just need to loosen up the conections inside the car and move things over a bit. SHould take care of that. It is only slight too, I was probably off 2 degrees when I did the shift bar. That is what I get for not building a jig.

I noticed my oil lines are tight and dry, so another good sign. We put a quick 5 miles on the car, pulled over and fiddled with carb adjustment a few times. Idles decent, runs good. One thing we noticed while driving (windshield trim is still off) was the cracked windsield is only glued on the lower corners! If I pushed a little with my hand, I could get the whole thing to tilt out! Yikes! Well, I thought we would be able to wait until after our Whistler trip to do this one, looks like that will have to be replaced now.

Now onto other little things. This car sat since 1998, so the brake pedal is stiff. You have to pull it up with your toes. But hey, a whole week to go and it runs! WOO HOO! Everything else is small stuff. If anyone has questions, please ask. I will post more pictures (better ones) and happily go into detail about anything I might have missed.

The cost? Well, without going into any deals anyone might have given me on anything,,,,, including the car, engine, paint, fender flares, tires/wheels, conversions parts, but not labor: Just under $6000. After the windshield, I will probably push that $6000 mark.

By making most of my own parts, I saved over $1200 and it would have been more if I had the time to make my own mount and mod a set of 911 headers. But hey, time is money and if you don't have time, you will have to cough up a little money to do something like this. All in all, I would rather have this 914-6 for $6k than any 911 for $10k. But that is just me.

How did you hook up the suction line on the oil cooler?

I'm glad to see someone else taking this approach to the six conversion. You don't need to spend a mint.

I too made my own tin, but I "kit-bashed" 914-4 and 911 tin. I figured I had both sets of tin and a mig welder. Screw it. It takes a bit of time. Brad it right, $400 for a fiberglass tin set is not a bad deal.

I too used the velios tank. Works great. I had to modify the inner edge of my rear quarter slightly to clear the fitting. No biggie. It doesn't leak.

Brad is also correct about the exhuast hanger. I traced a friends 2.0L hanger and cut it out of .125" aluminum. It bolted directly up to my Bursch headers.

I got impatient and bought the pelican throttle linkage. This is the biggest piece of crap ever. I ended up making my own bell crank from a 911 unit. I made a pivot mount and used the 911 actuation rod.

Yes! just mark a 911 flywheel and you're done.

I have a 2.0L E motor. Stock 914 clutch with 30k on it when installed works fine, even with 205-50 khumo's on 7" wide rims.

Making your own shift rod from a side shift -4 mount is a piece of cake. Bend as necessary (be careful it's tubing!), file the diameter down to shorten, and drill a new hole for the set screw. Works great.

One thing I have to disagree on is the Patrick mount. I autocross my car agressively, but I don't abuse it. I also autocross on some pretty rough sites. My side shift -4 front engine mounts lasted me for four autocross seasons and my dad is still using them in his car. The Patrick moly mount lasted exactly 4 autocross events before it started coming apart bending my tin, destroying my clutch and throttle cables, and bending my shift rod. I welded the mount up and made some reinforcements, but the flex still resulted in a bent shift rod. I can post some pictures of the Patrick mount carnage and what I tried to fix it tonight. I gave up and bought the Rich Thompson mount. It's $400, it takes a bit to install, but it rocks.

The biggest downside to the six is when it breaks, it costs quite a bit of money to fix. However, 2270 or 2316 Type 4's aren't cheap either.

Kelly

Ah yes, the cooler. I was going to wait to get some decent pics of that, but here goes (I will be waiting for the abuse after telling people how I do this one):

I grab my sawzall and oh yeah, you guess it, cut back about 1" from the threaded fitting and then cut the threaded fitting off. So all you are left with is an unsupported aluminum tube coming out the bottom of the cooler. Then I simply slip over the suction hose, 2 hose clamps (don't even have to be that tight). Then I use a padded seel bracket (like a wire loom holder thingie) and support the line at the body of the car. This almost completely eliminates the line tugging around on that un-supported cooler tube. I have done it 5 times now? And never had any troubles with it. I know it is not the "Right" way to do it, but it seems to work just fine. I have logged tens of thousands of miles on conversions done that way. I think the factory tube is just strong is all.

Okay, you can let me have it for that one. I am ready, slam me!

Please post more pics of shift rod and carb linkage fabs. Clearer anyway.

Mack

I promise I will, Last night I adjusted the valves and then the carbs. The engine has sat for a little while, so the usual needed to be done. Also this 914 sat since 1998 so many things have "Sit sindrome" which required attention. This was a project of start and don't stop until it is done. Friday is our trip to Whistler so I have been working daily to shake out any problems. There have been some too, but nothing major. But things that would have put a stop to the trip! So I have been spending my time on those items.

When we return I plan to post better shots of my linkage for throttle and shifting. Both are very smooth. I will also post dimensions for the throttle bell crank and rod I made. I will probably borrow someone else's camera though.

All this home made engineering and back yard fabrication makes me sick.
The only way to do something like this is to throw a great big pile of money at someone and have them do it for you!
Oh wait, I just remembered who I am and what I've done to Porsches over the past several years.


Seriously, I am impressed.
I've always admired those who can turn true imagination into a solution, you are obviously one of
'those people".

I know you said not to think about it too much, but could you give approximate dimensions and angles for the throttle capble bracket ?

What do you use for the cable itself ?

Michel Richard

Well, before I can take better pictures, let me butcher one up a little. In this picture, you can sort of make out the pieces I made. The mounting bar is pointed out in red and a rough outline made up with the three holes I drilled for it. 2 for mounting to the transmition and one the crank pivots on. The yellow arrow is the stock 914-4 cable, not modified at all. The green arrow is my rod I made for $1.99. Heck, so far this is my best bell crank. Maybe I will just crank out a few and offer them up for sale for like $50? Even with buying the little "cups", it is only about $15 in parts.

Then I decided to express my artistic side. What do you think?

Would you be interested in making a paper pattern of your wooden sheet metal jigs?

Sure. Nothing I will do before my trip this weekend. But I have where to bend the tabs, drill the holes and depth of things. I don't mind doing that at all. I also want to post more pictures of my tin installed in a 914. It really turns out nice for $20 worth of sheet metal.

I have been doing extra testing on my latest bell crank for the throttle and am just loving this one I did. So I want to take it all back appart, make another one to make sure I can do it again, install the new one, test it and maybe sell a few for cheap. They are fun to make.

I would be interested in purchasinglinkage kit.
Mack

When I get back, I will see about putting a handful of them together and offering them to fellow teeners. I like this one a lot and would like to get some out there and get feedback from other teeners.

Root,

Great job!

I live in West Seattle. What part of Seattle do you live?

I'd love to get together after you get back from Whistler.

Eddie

'73 914 2.7

Root,

Thanks, you are the man. If you ever have to come to Ohio let me know, I'll buy you dinner!

I may even get my car done someday if we all strive to be more like Root and help each other.

That's what I am going to do from now on. Help others with stuff I can do.

Thanks for being a good example for us all to try to live up to.

Root, Put me on the list for the linkage.I am finishing up my 6 install now
and this thread is just what I am looking for. Great work

Thanks for the hints and tricks. Please include me on the links as well.

Well, last night I finished up my heater "tubes" for my 914-6 running Bursch headers. I know, I know, Bursch sucks, whatever. I had an exhaust shop bend a tube for each side, then I dimpled them to fit snug up agaisnt the header pipes. Ran my hoses, put a stock 914-4 elect. fan on each side of the transmission to power the heater. Tested last night, no car running. Dude, these things kicked out some serious air! love it! So this morning I have to work, start driving in, stop at a gas station still in town. Heater tubes are warming up, heating up cabin nicely. Sweet! Hit the freeway, dang! Tubes start to cool off! They cool down to a mild mid 60's temp. A little cool, but I know of some things that will help that. I only tac welded the tubes onto the headers. I am going to run continous beads everywhere I can to allow for as much heat transfer as possible. That will help, but I don't think I will see much better than low 70's blowing out the vents. Which is actually fine.

Only problem I ran into this morning was a downpour of rain. All was well, warm cabin, air blowing, clear windows, light rain. Then buckets of water started coming down. Little hydroplaning even. I must not have sealed something up quite right because somehow a little water got into the heater tubes and you guessed it. One minute clear windows, next second fogged, couldn't see a thing! Doh! I wiped quickly, turned the fans off for a bit. When the rain let up, I turned them back on, they fogged for a bit, but then cleared up.

I don't have pic's this morning but will post what I did soon. It was super easy to do! Just a little more welding and maybe some better tubes? Either way, I think I spent about $25 for 914-6 heat! Right on!

This is very interesting.

So the fan motor is under the trunk floor, next to the tranny ? I suppose that those motors are designed to withstand some water dripping onto them, but have you done anything to try and ensure that the fan motor won't short out from exposure to spray coming from the wheels ?

In any event, from what you describe the setup survived at least one good rain.

Keep these things coming !

Michel Richard
914 2.2E MFI

where is the fan air drawn from, under the car?

kevin

It has been a little while, But I did promise I would come back and better explain the bell crank throttle linkage for folks. All I did was stumble upon something that happened to work perftect. Well, I have made a few in the past, but this one I like the best of them all. So this weekend, I made 5 of them! I brought one to work with me this morning and will see if I can post the dimensions of this cool product. I am selling these for $60 plus shipping and will post in the appropiate place.

As before, you can see I am still using my ceral box digital camera. Oh well. The set mounts on the pass. side of the trans cover. You simple remove 2 nuts, slip this on and put the nuts back on. It also uses the stock 914-4 throttle cable so you don't need to buy anything but my kit! Sweet huh? Not pictured in these is the rod that goes from the bell crank to the carb linkage. Oh, this should work exactly like the factory one as in works with carbs, MFI and CIS engines. I am sure it would work with DME engines, but you might have to modify the rod?

More shots, do your eyes hurt yet?

More

Last one. I will see if I can draw some sort of picture of how it mounts.

Thank you for all you arcontributing. I must say, however, that pictures on a better background would be even more helpful.

A small drawing with dimensions would be extraordinary.

Thanks

Michel Richard
914 2.2 E MFI

$20 dig camera on a carpet background, what's the problem? Oh okay. From the top of my file cabinet:

More, still makes my eyes hurt. I asked for a better camera for X-Mas.

'Nuther

Last one again. I will post the dimensions hopefully today. I have like 6 meetings to go to though. So no promises on the today part, but I will post them. In order to use the stock cable, you can see I welded on a little "L" brakcet with a hole in it, then had to make something the cable can run through using the stock cable clamp thingy. It isn't anything complicated and I encourage people to take my idea and make thier own. But I will warn you, it is easily $15 in parts even doing it the way I am and work, much work. When you do like 5 at a time it is worth it. But if someone would have offered this for $60 when I did my conversions, I would have bought one every time.

This is what I did at my first meeting today:

You are a gentleman.

Great

Thank you!

KT