I made some progress on my A/C pulley. As I stated earlier, I wanted to use a stock a/c pulley mounted a couple inches off the front of the crank. My solution was to machine an adapter which can be seen below. It's machined on both ends so the pulley and adapter are both centered. Right now it's just a prototype. It has plenty of clearance and I tried to bring it in as close as possible leaving enough clearance for the belt against the shroud. I want to try and improve this design and eliminate the need for 7"+ through bolts and also to make it as light as possible.

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looks like a great design. very similar to my cast pulley but a lot lighter I'm sure. Why not use some short allen head bolts at the fan side and drill and tap for some independent bolts at the pulley side. No need to make a new piece just re-clock the three bolt holes in the outer end by the pulley. You may need to turn down the center section slightly to clear the heads of the allen head bolts though.

Cool Thread! Makes me appreciate my "factory" install even more. I have the passenger side, top-mounted compressor you talked about on mine. Nothing was cut or altered in the engine compartment. I think it was installed in Houston.

Is there a record of how many cars were "AC'ed" after delivery to the states?

Do you have any pictures of it? How is it driven off the front?

I'll see if I can snap some pics of it. It's hard to see as it's pretty tightly crammed in there it seems.

That's essentially what I'm after. I'm also trying to get the weight down even more. Currently it's about 1.6lbs and could be less. I had a few people interested in these so the development continues.

Ugh... this is something I'd totally love to do. And I even have the motor out right now, getting a rebuild. But my wife has already told me that I should just call my car "Money Pit" instead of "Rocinante."

Considering I live in the Mojave desert, though, I should probably just have it installed now while I can. It's a shame that your custom mounts aren't available with the compressor, dryer, evaporator and the hoses in kit form.

Maybe I'll just put a cooler of dry ice in the car for the months of July and August? Breathing is overrated, after all...

When I eventually get to the A/C ............ I was going to make a pulley adapter similar to the one you have prototyped ...... but as mentioned, try to have bolts on each end instead of the long versions. So judging from the progress you are making ....... looks like I will just get one from you, when the time comes .....

I just finished making a new mount. I'm a lot happier how this one turned out. I bought a universal mount (which doesn't fit the 507 too well ) which I modified to fit. The nice thing about this is the ease of adjustment since its all once piece.

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Looking good in the hood my friend.

Agreed

So, what's the weakest link in the A/C system?

I'm thinking ahead here:

1- condenser flow enough?
2- underdash unit is how efficient?
3- how much current draw from under dash motor?
4- we already know the newer Sanden is light-speed ahead in design and operation
5- wondering what the total power loss is to system overall, knowing it's better than 42 year old design

Hot and humid southern summers make or break the Type IV from experience.

Again, replaying devil's advocate here more for my sanity...

Dave B.

Finally got to the car last weekend and snapped some pics of the compressor on my '73. It also looks like once the bolts are undone (I counted 4), that it would actually have enough hose length to be able to rest it on the rear deck lid. Planning on dropping the engine soon and was worried about suspending it, but seems like it'll sit up there nicely during the drop.

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I am curios to know what pulley you have to drive the york. It looks like it would be a similar setup to mine. When you get the engine dropped take a pic of the pulley or aim the camera in there now and try and get a pic off.

When I first started this project, my initial intent measure and evaluate the the various efficiencies of the system and its components and play around with different options (Its the engineer in me). I'll probably still play around with it more once the weather gets warm again. Right now I would assume the limiting factor to be the airflow over the condenser and/or condenser size specially when converting to r134.

stateofidleness, Thanks for the pics.

I found the link to the company that built Jake Raby's setup for his wife's Super Beetle, as well as one they show for a bus on their site.

Link provided:

Gilmore Enterprises - VW and P-Car A/C

Looks like he still hasn't updated the kit he built for the 914, as the site link is still in progress for our cars.

Good images to check out though.

I plan to make a AC system for my GT clone sometime in the future. I have a Sanden compressor not sure it it's a 507 or 508. The trick will be a mount to use on my 3.0 six. I also plan on using a condensor from a Porsche 993 and install it in front of the right rear tire in the fender well. I think I can get it in there with a Spal fan and have good air flow. That would help keep the hose run shorter. Regardless of refrigerant type I will use o-ring fittings as I think they seal better than flare. This post has given me a few ideas thanks.

Take the battery out of the car and put the compressor in the battery tray. The hoses will be long enough, and you don't risk scratching or denting the rear deck lid.

K guys, I wanted to dig in a little more on this because honestly I have always been curious about the AC in this car myself. I am planning on dropping the engine in this one for the first time so I started work on getting the AC stuff out of the way at least. Car is winning though... Without much documentation on this setup, I can't research the proper way to unmount it. At first I was attempting to take the entire thing out (compressor+bracket) in one piece and we found that it is still swiveling on a bolt directly underneath the compressor mount (you can see it in the pic). It appears this has been broken by a P.O., but I can almost forgive them because I can tell why it's broken. Absolutely no way to get any kind of tool on it.. tried everything!!!!

So then we tried unmounting the compressor from the base plate and got 3 of the 4 bolts off, but there's one near the firewall directly behind one of the pulleys that seems impossible to get at as well... no combination of wrenches or sockets seemed to help...

So I gave up and told Dad I'd be consulting the experts

Took a pic of the bolt underneath that I can't get a wrench/socket on (seems to be a 14mm). Found some other markings on it and took some pics. I'll post in a few. There's still some original stickers and other markings on the very front but can't get a camera between the pulley and the firewall yet. Stay tuned!

The yellow arrows are pointing at the last bolt that seem to be holding the whole thing to the engine... no way to get a wrench on it though!! The blue arrow is showing the broken hole on the fan housing.

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Here is closer view. The top pic is a bigger pic to give you some idea of where we're looking:

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Couple more... left them a little bigger because it's hard to find large reference images for stuff like this:

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Uno Mas. Markings on the visible side of the compressor (opposite the pulley):

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Couple more reference pics as I finished getting the compressor unmounted this week.

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stateofidleness, Did you ever figure out how your compressor was driven off the front of the engine?

Not a big update but I did finish the pulley adapter. Now I just need to install everything one of these days and start testing it.


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Version 2.0 is now up an running. I put a new motor in my car so I was waiting on that to try out the new stuff. Everything went together smoothly and so far no issues. I need to finish charging my system and then it will be smooth sailing just in time for the summer heat.

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In order for the compressor to mount far enough back, I relocated the oil filler. I only needed to move it less than an inch but I went ahead and mounted it up higher. I like it better this way.
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And for those who don't know I run CIS on my car so that's why it looks a bit different.
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And the most exciting video to date...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LRnNZTDaTs

Oh and for those wondering, to set the timing I used the back of the flywheel and the small access hole. Its actually a lot easier to see the marks this way than having to stretch your body across the top of the engine.

Now for some boring stuff...

I thought I would give an update on some of my results. The other day I did and initial charge on the system and had the following results:

Ambient Temp: 75 Fahrenheit
Low Pressure: 40 psi
High Pressure:250 psi
Evaporator (Air Vent) Temp: 58 Fahrenheit

Here is one reference I use for the range of temperatures/pressures...

http://www.ackits.com/aacf/ptchart.cfm


From the initial test my numbers were a little high. From experience I knew the likely culprit was inadequate airflow over the condenser. Last year the squirrel cage fan in the condenser box froze up so I replaced it with a small electric radiator fan and I wasn't too happy with the way I mounted it and obviously that method didn't work too well so I reconfigured it today. Sorry, no pictures I mounted the fan on the underside of the condenser so that it pulls air. Worked great. My new readings are:


Ambient Temp: 82 Fahrenheit
Low Pressure: 33 psi
High Pressure:230 psi
Evaporator (Air Vent) Temp : 54 Fahrenheit

That's a temperature drop of 28 degrees! Not too bad. Now I need to go test drive it and see how low it goes.

Nice work!

I am sure a lot of people would like a working AC in their cars.

John

Just an update. I made a batch of extra adapters that I'd sell to anyone interested. Each would include the necessary hardware. Pulley not included. $85 shipped conus I apologize for the crappy pics.


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I am also putting together at least two "kits" that I'll be selling shortly which includes the drive pulley, compressor, mount, hardware and everything necessary to mount a compressor on top of the motor. Stayed tuned for that.

I'll take an adapter!

Nice work

BUMP



http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=222941

Aside from selling kits what was the conclusion? Does it keep you totally frosty in the heat? Whats the hottest exterior temp you've run in and did it keep up?-Guy

This system will keep you cool even on a hot day. Currently the system I am running is merely a "stock" system with an upgraded compressor and R134. Switching to r134 definitely puts a limit on the system. I'm envious of those that get super cold temps with r12. I'll be working to improve my system this season and do some more research to see what can be done to get temps down even further. I'll probably start by replacing my condenser with an improved version. I'll of course keep keep this thread alive with new developments.

Terrific and very informative thread. I'm very seriously considering the AC conversion for my v-8 914 from Renegade. I've spoken with them several times about it.
A few things I wonder about the Renegade conversion (that they weren't really able to anwser)
Not sure about the condensor they provide but pretty sure it's at least a serpintine type. They really couldn't say if it was a serpentine or a parraelel (optimuim).
Also, the bractery they've developed is for a compressor called a "Velero". Sadly they didn't know the model number off hand (but hopefully they will when I call back).
Lastly, they have several evap units. Under dash (see pic) with a heater core. Also a new system that mounts in the cowl (no pix availble from me right now but soon as they send it to me, I'll post it). The cowl unit would give an easier ablity to create a defroster which could be very useful where I live as we have high humidity. And of course has the advantage of being hidden away.
My main ponder is this "Valero" compressor. Never heard of that and don't know any spec on it...
Price-about 2k without hoses or fittings.
Addedum-Correction. Compressor is known as a "Valeo"
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Here's a few images Steve from Renegade just sent me of the under cowl evap (with a heater core) system they now offer and a shot of the Valeo (model still unknown) compressor.
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Doug, I refurbished the stock system in my 2.0L years back with a Sanden. The schematic you posted was one I created for that system. The biggest aid I found to help the A/C work better in Phoenix was a cockpit cover. Had a custom one made with a cloth-backed vinyl that covered all glass and the engine lid. Made a huge difference in A/C performance since it wasn't an oven to start with and the A/C could keep up.

Great job on the thread. Keep us up to date on changes.

Good thread. I am embarking on my own AC install project on my 914 project. AC is about the only way I'll be able to get my wife and daughters to ride in the car in the summer. I have a new left over kit for a 70 Torino that I traded before off getting around to installing it with a sanden 508 compressor and under dash unit. My 74 914 has a 2.0 bus engine in it with a dual carb set up. My idea so far is mounting the compressor on top of the engine on the left drivers side and driving it with a double pulley mounted on the alternator and fabricating the bracket using the mounting base and adjustment mechanism from the ford 351 bracket I already have.

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just check into this since you have the link on your signature, wondering if you ever got your box hooked up and working ?

Interested in thoughts on which, (if either) might be more efficient or let's say - which might steal less power from the engine : the pulley adapters attached to the center of the fan OR a two-row Alternator pulley (one used to power the AC compressor) ? The alternator pulley seems easier but . Pros / cons / thoughts ?

Comp off the Alt pulley will add that load stress to the Alt belt.

I've worked on other cars with both -- Comp on a separate belt and pulley, and same belt with the Alt. Also the Serpentine system with it all connected. If it's easier for you to do try it.

Condenser Install I think I mistakenly placed my previous photos on Doug's other commercial A/C thread. Go there to see my pre-fit photos. So, here we go! Here are my final install pics of my A/C Condenser unit on my '74. I had to make a last minute adjustment to the flipped down portion of the mounting cover (photos 2 and 3). My issue was that it just stuck down too low. If I hit a speed bump or something, the entire condenser would be ripped out of my trunk. I also wanted something to cover up the front portion of the grate. I satisfied both issues by pounding the metal bracket flat and then cutting out an inner rectangle - leaving enough to bend down a much smaller scoop.

thats pretty cool, nice clean install. are you using the electric compressor set up?

Phil

thats pretty cool, nice clean install. are you using the electric compressor set up?

Phil

I assume you're using a pusher fan.

Bend the flap straight down and use it as a lip to attach a flexible rubber/plastic dam (something cheap from HD that can be replaced as needed). That little 1" or so isn't going to do anything but 3-4" will. You need to create high pressure in front and low behind to get good circulation thru.

Looks great.

Thanks! Good comments here. I like the idea of extending the scoop with something less rigid. I have a Sanden 508 compressor that will be getting top mounted on the engine in the coming weeks. These parts all come with the A/C kit from Classic Auto Air. Photo of the dryer installed. Had to switch over to install the fuel pump and a few other items to move the engine along. More to come...

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Starting the A/C Compressor Install. Hired a young man with a lathe to machine out a pulley spacer based on Doug's specs. Had to buy 8mm longer Allen head bolts (m8x1.25x50) to reinstall the fan with the spacer. Working on positioning the compressor mount prior to welding the feet in place. I plan on tacking the remaining legs on and then removing for a final welds. My concern right now is the clearance at the top for the compressor with the firewall. Might move the compressor/mount back toward the oil filler a little more. Maybe Doug or others can give their 2 cents before I start welding. I might have that first leg (driver side) mounted on the wrong side of the fan housing. Also, I'm curious as to the best orientation of the compressor. Is it better to have the connections on top? Or, pointing to the passenger side?

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How will you set or check the engine timing with the AC compressor mounted above the timing port in the fan housing?

Very cool build

I recommend to transfer your timing marks to the back of the flywheel and you can then use the small access hole on the back of the engine to set your timing.