Agreed! A spectrometer, or spectrophotometer, will diagnose spectral items, such as color, intensity and, in some cases degrees of spectral colorants (yeah, I know, it's heady). They CAN be used to match, or closely match, paint. But that's it. For a basic view of what a spectrophotometer analyses look at the artwork for Pink Floyd's "Dark Side of the Moon".

I worked with these things for 15 years YEARS ago, to determine if FDA food colors matched specs. That's pretty much all they did.

I'd be interested in hearing about new finish produsts too. Have been a Meguiars fan for many years (Zymol was too much work), but there must be better products these days.

You have to be real careful with buffing. I wouldn't advise it, even though the new buffers and pads are much more forgiving than the ones from days of old. Last two 914's I've had, also had some of those minute scratches your talking about. Paint sealants will hide them well. Similar to a wax, but you won't get the same depth.
On the Ravenna green car, I clay barred it with the Uber blue bar and Mother's detail spray. The clay barring works great. Just keep the area real wet so it doesn't leave a residue. Gets out all of the dirt trapped inside the scratches. That dirt is what makes them stand out like an eye sore. Then use a good paint cleaner. I went with PS21 paint cleaner along with Mequires scratch remover; a 50/50 dab of each using an Uber micro fiber pad. The combo really makes the paint pop.
http://www.detailersdomain.com/Uber-Microf...-Pad_p_647.html
Then followed by 1Z polish on the Uber pad, followed by PS21 wax. When I was done, the scratches were almost undetectable. You really had to catch the right light to see them. The minute ones went away. The Uber No Name super plush micro fiber towels were used to wipe/buff off the products. The key I found, was work in a small area at a time, and not to let any of the products dry on the paint. Wipe off right away. Typically worked in a 10"x10" area at a time. Also the best results I got from the wax, was applying it by hand on my hand. Emulsifing it, then rubbing it into the paint. If the wax wasn't heated by friction, it would streak. End results were amazing. Maybe go that route before doing anything too aggressive; like a buffer.
Each panel took me a week, but I also had to take 10+ years of film off it. Give it a try and I bet you'll be quite happy with the results.

Wow! Thanks Tod! Just the kind of info I'm looking for. Will report back...

BTW, you're right, the buffer is out. I dropped my car off last week to our local painting guru, someone who has worked on high end cars. He tried to buff just the one panel and said NO WAY.

But isn't the Meguiar's scratch remover an abrasive, and using it would be similar to buffing?
And what exactly is a paint cleaner? A non-abrasive chemical dissolver or something?

Appreciate everyone's help.

Paul

Paul they are abrasives, but by hand you can control the pressure easier. They will, if rubbed too hard, remove paint. You would have to work at it a bit to see the paint come up. These are no where near what a compound would be. Maybe test in the trunk area first, so you can see what results they yield. If you want to be more cautious, you can use one of the foam applicator pads by hand instead of the microfiber pad. I found with the foam pads, you just seem to be pushing product around without really accomplishing much. The foam pads are good for the 1Z wax and vinyl products though. Here's links for some of the products;

http://www.p21s.com/products/bis_pc.html ps21 paintwork cleanser + the mequires scratch remover (the Mequires you can get any where)

http://www.p21s.com/products/bis_ps.html I used this to clean up the chrome on the bumper, followed by a coat of ps21 wax. My bumpers had stubborn grime on them, even after washing. This soap worked extremely well. Will even clean up minor rust pitting. Doubt you need it for your car.

The PS21 body shampoo is also a good product, once your car is waxed. I ended up using Palmolive dish soap to try to cut through the grime. The dish soap will remove the old wax, where the body shampoo won't.

http://www.detailersdomain.com/ carries most of the products. I believe autogeek might have more of these that I mentioned here. Never used them, but they seem to have a much larger selection of products.

http://www.detailersdomain.com/1Z-einszett...litur_p_73.html The polish I used after the PS21 paint cleanser

http://www.detailersdomain.com/1Z-einszett...z-Wax_p_72.html
initial coat of wax on whole car, including trunks, jams, etc. This wax lasts longer, but doesn't have as much depth as the PS21 carnuba wax

http://www.p21s.com/products/bis_cw.html PS21 wax used on the exterior panels on top of the 1z. Your likely removing more of the base wax by adding on another layer of wax. So probably not necessary to use the 1Z wax on the exterior. I like the results of it in the trunks though.

http://www.detailersdomain.com/1Z-einszett...aner_p_106.html was one of the products used to clean the vinyl. Followed up with
http://www.detailersdomain.com/1Z-einszett...tant_p_211.html vinyl and rubber care.

I was real happy with the 1Z products. A lot of guys swear by the 303 aerospace protectant. I haven't tried it, so I can't really comment on it.

Here's the clay bar. http://www.detailersdomain.com/Uber-Blue-Clay-Bar_p_164.html Any on the shelf detail spray will work well with it. Word of caution don't use the Mequires clay kit. It's too sticky. Will leave a residue. The Mother's kit I tried, worked almost as well as the Uber clay bar. The Uber I found glided easier on the paint surface. The paint surface will be a little streaking once your done claying, but that will all come clean once you start with the ps21 paint cleaner. Before you clay, run your hand across the paint surface. You'll get a lot of resistance. Try it after. You'll be amazed how smooth it becomes.

Tires and bumper tops I used the Griots rubber prep http://www.griotsgarage.com/product/rubber...sortby=ourPicks
This does a great job of removing the brown stains on the tire rubber.
I've been using their vinyl and rubber dressing, but not completely satisfied with it. You have to use a very small amount and kind of buff it in so it doesn't leave an uneven finish. It's nice if applied correctly, but sounds like the 303 would be the better choice from what I hear.

I would strongly suggest not to use the PS21 Total Auto Wash. It can leave an orange stain. Figured I'd let you know just in case your tempted to try it. All of the other PS21 products I used, worked great.

Too many products to choose from these days. I'm sure anyone of the guys in this forum can give you a different product list , and achieve comparable end results.

Hope that helps. Looks like your off to a great start.

Good experiences Tod!

I spoke with John Paterek yesterday. When I lived in NYC, he used to work on my black 914 (which now resides with Riley in Fargo, ND, but that's another story).

He said P21s paint cleaner with a dab of Blue Magic in the middle. Personally he doesn't like clay. Followed by P21s Concours Wax.

I will keep us posted!

Paul

Not to dispute John, but that Blue magic and PS21 is going to remove paint. You'll end up with a red pad or buffing cloth by the time your done. That would be ok for trying to bring back heavily oxidized paint. Blue magic is an abrasive metal polish. If your going to use that, make you test it out before trying it on an outside panel. Just a friendly warning.

Sort of surprised that Paterak would suggest such a thing. How can that be less abrasive than a clay bar, which is easily controlled with fluids? I'm going to clay my 72 for the first time this spring. Used the bars on 3 car now with very acceptable results. Used the bars on alloy whells with gorgeous results, followed bt Zymol.

Pat, I've been to quite a few of John's workshops over the years. He's a big advocate of that combo. Apparently he's had great results using it. I tried it on two cars. The light ivory 914 and the Bahia red 914. To me, it was way too aggressive to use on good paint. Just a little too much pressure, and you'll be burning through it. Even with the smallest dab of the Blue Magic, for me, it worked like a compound. You have be very carefull using it, and make sure you have proper lighting so you can see what exactly what it's doing. Quite good on bringing oxidized paint back to life. He's demonstrated that at his workshops. In that case, you really don't have too much to loose.
The Mequires and PS21, is a much safer route to go. All the gloss that was brought back to life on the Ravenna 914's paint, was because of that combo. Seems to add a real luster to the paint. The carnuba wax was just the icing on the cake so to speak. That gave the paint it's depth.
Regarding the clay, I'm a total fan of it. It really prepares the surface well. Certainly no harm in using it on a factory finish. Great detailing tool to get into all the nooks and crannies in the engine bay. Lifts up all the dirt you can't quite get with your q-tips.

I've used Paterak's combination for years. Yes it can remove minute surface paint if you grind it in. I've also used clay bars. Only concern I have with the clay is the retention of the particles it removes. They remain on the clay bar as you rub the clay over the paint surface. Liberal amounts of wet agent is a definite must.

Amount of Blue Magic is about the size of small pea to a couple of caps of the PS21 cleaning cream. It works great for the super fine scratches.

Dang! Now I'm really confused!!!

Products are on their way to me now, will post some pics when I start. If I burn through the paint, I ain't goin' to the show!!!

Paul

Regarding tod914's comment, the main difference between Paterek's suggestion and his: whether to use Blue Magic or Meguiar's scratch removal. I'll have both available!

Paul

Paul, I guess it all comes down to the condition of your paint. Looks real nice in the pictures. Try them both and see what works better for you. The Mequires + PS21 will be less aggressive than what John suggested. Anxious to hear what your results are. Like I said, just passing along what worked for me.
James, I agree with you on the clay bars. I think used four of them to do my car. You can only kneed them so much before your running dirt particles over the surface. I was just amazed how smooth the paint becomes, after using them.

My wheels are off to Paterek Brothers, Chatham NJ to get redone!

I will still have an original 39 year old Michelin ZX tire. If Paterek doesn't want it, anyone can have it if they pay shipping. It should never ever be driven, however!!! I will know in the next couple of days.

I have new Michelin XZX 165SR15 tires coming from Coker. The tires on it are over 9 years old and they don't match the spare so I am replacing them.

Paul

Tires have arrived! 5 Michelin XZX 165SR15.

I have the original 39 year old spare...for the concours weenies among us, I am thinking about safety so I was gonna mount all 5 tires and get rid of the original spare. Think I'll get points with judges even though the tires wouldn't all match? (Guess I'm obsessing a bit, eh?)

Paul



Paul

Paul,
Dump the original spare. Go with 5 period-correct tires that match. You bought five, so use five.
Pat

I'm with you, thanks Pat!

Paul

For anyone ordering from detailer's domain, the code NEWBIE gets 15% off!

I love useful information! And if I write "NEWBIE" and go through the paint, maybe I can get 30 percent off on PRIMER!!

Paul

Paul,
We expect copious quantities of pics from the Parade.
Not going to be able tp make it - 90 year old mother-in-law needs to be moved. It's always something!
Good luck - you'll do well and, at the least, have an experience few others have had.
Pat

Please Paul; no more pictures of Pat in shorty shorts.

I had great legs in those days! Clay courts destroyed them. Look like road maps now. But, I'm still cute. Sorry for the hijack, just thought it necessary.

I wanted to share this process I found for restoring oxidized single stage paint.

I don't think it applies to the prep you guys are doing, but I plan to try it for my very oxidized original paint. The detail provided in the attached process seems to be just what I need.
(This link is for autotraderclassic, but the process is originally from Auto Geek.)


http://www.autotraderclassics.com/car-arti...t+1-65310.xhtml

Turk

Thanks everybody. I'm having success with a dab of Blue Magic in the middle of a pool of P21S Paintwork Cleanser. I just know I won't have time for third and fourth applications of product!

I will eventually post lots of pics. My daytime job keeps getting in the way.

Paul

Great articles/articles!

Maybe a dumb question, but here goes:
I'm in the Preservation group but because my car has less than 1000 miles logged per year (25500 for a 39 year old car) I'm lumped into the group with the 356, 911 and 914.

So the rules talk about "chassis" which I know is the undersurface of the car. But what are the judges typically looking at, the wheel wells, the exhaust? I mean it's hard to get far under it, no?

Paul

Ahhhhhhhh,

Reading this thread brings back all the memories, both good and bad regarding preparing a car for a Concours Event.

My first Zone One Concours I spent 3 months taking everything apart, cleaning and putting it back together again. I had dirty wheels and tires to drive to the event a day early) and then swapped them with a clean set. Of course once you get it that clean you don't want to drive it - at all! Subsequent shows I would spend up to 30 hours to detail little things.

I did very well and got tons of positive reinforcement from the judges and spectators. It really was worth the effort. I remember some judges would find dirt and wipe it on your score sheet. Some thought it was funny, others were humiliated, having slaved over their car for hours, only to have missed an obvious (to the judges) spot. I did have the satisfaction of having literally no dirt on anything, so my score sheet was clean. They had to find something right? A judge ran his finger along the fan belt and got some rubber residue! Everybody, including me got a good laugh out of it but, THAT CAR WAS CLEEEEEEAN, and they knew it.

The key is time. You must spend the time to prepare the car. And, if you drive it there, more time to clean up what you got dirty on the drive up. This is why I haven't competed in quite some time. I just don't want to devote 3 months of my life cleaning a car to the nth degree.

As far as what products to use, that's like asking someone what is the best oil to use. You will get a different answer from everyone. Experiment, and find what products you are comfortable with. And, just because it cost a lot, doesn't mean it's the best. The two products I use to prepare my paint didn't cost more than $30. If I had a nickel for every time someone asked, "Who painted your car?" and I would reply "Porsche". "The paint is original?" "Yes".

So if you spend the time you will do well. Talk to the judges and get your score sheet back at the end of the event to correct what got points off for the next time. It works. And, most important, have fun. That is what this is all about right??

Dave

Hey Dave, thanks for all the good advice. Good to hear from you. You helped me when I bought my current car about 6 years ago (actually I begged you to sell me your car but you gave me lots of encouragement, nonetheless!). I used to see your car at the Zone 1 events in the mid 80's, you truly have a beautiful car.

My buddy Mike and I are cleaning up the car every night now. No matter what, I will have fun at the concours. Paterek will have my wheels shipped back to me this Friday, I am psyched!

Paul

If I promise now to add pics this weekend, maybe I'll get around to doing it!

Paul

You WILL win! I am so excited for you & wish I could be there. Planned it, until my wife's mother broke here hip.
YOU CAN DO IT! Sorry for yelling.
Pat

Thanks Pat, your words of encouragement mean a lot to me. I was feeling pretty good until I realized just how far the quarter panel extends forward, like to the door jambs! Talk about baked on grease!! Still have a lot of work to do...

Paterek is a perfectionist. Apparently my wheels were redone and powdercoated and the junction between the vertical surface and the wheel rim has gunk in it. So he painted it, didn't like the way that it looked and resprayed again yesterday. I gotta call him today to see. The wheels are gonna arrive in the midnight hour!

Paul

OK, you're leaving the dealership...Where did Porsche put the Owner's Manual and the Toolkit?

Paul

I'm not sure if there is a specific way of handling this. Both Parades I competed, I put the Owner's manual and all other documentation arranged on the passenger side floor (glove box empty and closed).

Toolkit I placed open, on the tire board placed in front of the car. I didn't receive and complaints. I saw a mix of this approach by others. Perhaps Pat has a better suggestion.

Good luck!

James Smith

Paul,
I'm sure you have these items. The display of which might be apparent when you see how others are arranging them when you get to the concours site. James' suggestion seems tasteful, subdued and low-key.

Paul

Some late night cell phone pictures with tree shadows.
I guess I have to stop sometime. I could spend weeks and weeks and weeks just cleaning forever.
This will have to do.















Paul

Been super busy at home, hope to post a few pics soon.

It was a great day for sure!

Paul

A well deserved huzzahh for all your work and effort and for carrying the 914 banner so high for all of us. No doubt you've raised the bar for 914 preservation standards.

Way to go Paul.

Kudos to Bliz as well

We need more pics of the concours and the 914 entrants that were there.

Pictures compliments of Jerry...jgilliam













Paul

Great job Paul!

Now you have the post victory depression when you realize that you've got ONLY twelve months to prepare for the next Parade. <grin>

Right now I don't think his wife thinks he will be defending his placing at next years Parade

I did not contest them because I did not read the sheet while I was there, having already won first place.

Coachwork: possible hit in the right rear
...I think this is from the factory sway bars in the rear trunk

Dash, Steering, Instruments: optional console not on Kardex
...This was part of the chrome bumpers, I would assume, like an Appearance Group

Tools: missing couple of tools
...I have a complete kit, I believe, just less for 1974 than earlier cars.

Paul

Paul
Congrats! Never a doubt that you would win. Dedication to the task at hand.
Proud of you!
Pat

You might want to look into the center console. In the 1973 model year 2.0Ls, lots of the otherwise optional equipment items were standard, but in 1974, these became optional and the equipment groups changed composition.

Your chrome bumpers would have been an extra cost option in 1974, are they shown that way on the COA? Here is a list of separate optional equipment items for all years:

http://bowlsby.net/914/Classic/OpEq.htm

My COA:



Just "Chrome Bumpers!" And my car has fog lights as well as the center console. I mean, this thing has the wiring harness in place for the console. And I know for a fact from the original owner's son that the chrome bumpers were not parted out for other fog light bumpers and the console was not added separately. With the COA as it is, I'm not so sure the Monroney sticker would be any better (but it is, alas, unavailable).

Any ideas, Jeff?

Paul

So this raises the question of whether my car has the appearance group (which it does: 2 horns, shift boot, center console, fog lights, leatherette steering wheel) and it was NOT documented by the factory? Can I correct this? (and I don't mean removing all of that cool stuff!)

Paul

Paul,

The CoAs for 914s seem to be useful only for VIN, color code, and engine #. Vagueness (i.e. "US Equipment"), errors (i.e. equipment & options not even coded for 914 models) and omissions (your 914 and my '70 came w/appearance group but was not noted on the CoA) plague 914 CoAs. The satellite Karmann factory in Osnabruck probably didn't have any directives to keep detailed documentation for the 914 production equipment other than the aforementioned items. There have been a number of threads questioning the inaccuracies of 914 certificates.

As far as getting a correction, Pat Garvey could tell you about his frustration in getting an accurate and concise CoA for his 1972 1.7. after receiving questionable data on his CoA.

Paul

Thanks, I don't like the judges mentioning inaccuracies that aren't true!

Paul

Sure seems like a COA error. All 1974 914s have the center console connections at the chassis harness.

having only been a 914 owner for a few short years this is very educational for me. I am looking at this issue and wondering about the qualifications of the judges in this area. they should be aware of these inaccuracies in the COA's. They also should be aware of the changes from one model year to the other in regard to something like a tool kit. If we know about it, they should too, and if they don't they should not be judging! Just because they may be experts in say the 911 line does not qualify them to judge 914, 356 etc (IMHO)

Regarding the COA inacuracies, I know that my 75 was a 2.0 with appearance group, which means that it should have had the 2.0 fuchs, but being the 5th owner, it was plundered by a P.O. of those and the center console. Now i am lucky enough that the original sales receipts and the window sticker were with the car, so i know it came with those. I suppose for you, if you had the original window sticker it may have shown them these items in question were indeed on the car at purchase time? just a thought. I know its pretty rare that these were kept, and preserved from one owner to another. Wish mine was in better shape.

anyway, just a few thoughts from a semi-lurker.

oh, and congradulations!!!

As my 914-6 is a Euro version imported from Switzerland, I prepared a notebook of all my import material, to supplement my COA, and a section listing all the differences between my 6 and a standard US version, complete with references to other sources (ie. factory manuals/parts catalogues and third party books).

At time of judging, I made it available to the chief judge. I believe it did make a difference. Of the two parades I competed in the majority of the judges were very knowledgeable with the 914 model, and did check my documentation.

The idea of the notebook came from John Paterak.