Springs may not be simple to find used, at least the 140lb ones...

Cant hurt to ask around though.

Little Foreign Car shop, Watertown MA
Autosport Engineering , Stow MA
Mikes Autobody, northshore somewhere.

All have had 914 race cars...and all have had large spare assortments.

The other place to ask around might be 914club...
More northeast guys kicking around there, though I have not been there in a while.

rich

Romanowski might also know where some spare springs might be.
He has a 914 racecar, NH region.


rich

I'm being offered 165 lbs springs - what is the concensus on these?
I think they will be too stiff for me for the road and without stiffening the front will make the car too "assy"

EDIT: they are proggresive so maybe not too stiff?
Also, what role do struts/shocks play in AX?

I don't like progressive springs but you should be fine with 165 pounders. The car will understeer much less but the car will be tail happy. This will give you a reason to upgrade your front swaybar which is your next step anyways.

I'm thinking that because they are proggresive the ride won't be so stiff as to entirely ruin its "date car" status?

Not that big of a risk really, I have a set of Konis to mount them on so I can leave the 100 lbs springs on the stock shocks.

I don't think 165 lb springs would be too heavy. I'm running 250 pounders on mine and its not nearly as bad as I thought it would be.

you will like them.
Ride wont be affected much until you get into it...so the cruise is about the same...
Its kinda like putting in rubber spacers

rich

If those springs are like the ones I had, they are not progressive. There are a couple coils that are wound tighter than the rest and they go solid when the car is lowered to the ground yielding a 165# spring. If you mount them on your Konis, you will probably feel the ride is a lot stiffer. I think what you will feel is the stiffer Konis not the springs. IMHO

Thanks Bill

So what you are saying is they are not really progressive but, shocks aside, they ride ok?

What are you running up front (torsion and sway bar)?

You don't want what I've got. I'm married and don't take the 914 out on dates!
I've got 22mm front Tbars, 19mm front sway bar and 225# rear springs. The car is so stiff I don't like driving it on the road. It gets driven to and from the AX only

So I bought a set of new in box 165 lbs "progressive" springs.
I'll mount them on the Koni red shocks that I bought last year using home made spacers to get the ride height in the right region (threaded adapters being considered as a future upgrade).

If the ride is acceptable, they will stay on.

If the ride is too harsh I will save them for AX and mount a stock rear bar for the street.

I am also looking to make my front sway bar adjustable so I can stiffen it up a touch.

thanks

Good luck, I am around this weekend, full shop if you need to make or break something.

Rich

Are the Koni reds adjustable? I would set them at full soft if they are. At least try to get a fair comparison.

Yes they are.
I will set them full soft.

Thanks Rich,
not sure about this weekend, maybe I'll see you at German Car Day?

Geez, when is that?

Just offering a fully equipped shop if you need it.

Rich

Father's Day.
I appreciate the offer and may take you up when I try to make some adjustable sway bar arms!

So here are the springs I purchased.

Can anybody venture what size spacer I should use to get these to about the same ride height as 100 lbs. springs?

post a pic of the shocks...

My bilstiens are adjustable.
I can setup my 180 lbs springs at stock height already.

Otherwise...
Pull the shock and measure it unloaded.
Put the koni together wit the new spring (no spacer)

Measure both unloaded.
Stand up the setup shock, (tricky part) balance a wheel on top and put your weight on it while measuring it....
Fun

Rich

I'll take a picture, but they are not adjustable.

I was thinking I could measure the sag (jack the car up until it starts to lift the tire and measure that vs. sitting on the ground) with the 100 lbs springs and then try some calculations based on free length, installed preload and spring rate to come up with the height.

Otherwise I will just mount them once, measure, unmount, dissassemble, install spacers and remount.

Since the springs are not here yet, the math might be fun to try and the worse thing that will happen is I need to dissassemble as above...

you can do the math
165 lbs per inch or , fat guy leaning on a tire

rich

Fathers day is the 16th btw....

rich

I know, assuming the weather improves I'll be in Brookline

Interesting springs.
They do not appears to be as progressive rate as the 140 lb ones I put in Abels car.

Those had a significant different in how close together the coils were are the bottom of the springe versus the top.

Depending upon two things, you should be able to plot out the ride height.

First, overall spring height versus the stock springs you already have.
Second, the spring rate, which will increase as the spring becomes compressed...
For that set of input numbers you may be better off getting that from the manufaturer...should not be consistant for either spring...but should spike more on the 165 lb springs.

rich

Yeah, but I don't have scales to measure the rear wheel weight.

So I need to calculate the preload for the 100 lbs. springs from the free to the installed length, then calculate the load from the sag. Add the two togehter for the total load.

Then Calculate the preload for the installed 165 lbs. springs, subtract that from the load and calculate how much they will compress by the left over load.

easy-peezy

dont forget the aging factor of both sets of springs....

Rich

So I put the 165 lbs. mystery springs on and discovered why it was leaning so far with what I had on it!

When I was assembling the Koni's with the springs I noticed I didn't have the snubbers.

So I figured I would have to take them off the shocks I was taking out - but they didn't have any either - LOL!

That's the way it came and that's the way I've been driving it!

The good news is the 165 lbs springs went on without spacers and without having to compress the springs any more than you could do by hand!

Next AX is tomorrow - wish me luck!

EDIT: Where can I get the snubbers - I don't see them on Pelican?

Break a leg and afterwards tell us how the car handled!

The bump rubbers shouldn't affect the amount of body roll.
They are there to prevent bottoming of the shocks, which damages the internal valves.

Thanks, I've stopped missing them already!

At a minimum you need a few plastic washers on the shock piston to prevent the shock from bottoming out.

So, how did you do?

There were some fast cars in the novice class, so I didn't place.

That said, I had more fun driving this car today than I have since I've owned it!

Yes it had a good amount of oversteer going at times, but it was much flatter and could be steered with the throttle for the 1st time ever.

I was probably only a little faster than before, but they set up a real open course - about as fast as you can go given the confines and still have mid 30 second runs.

I think I would have done better on a tighter course like the ones they had been running

So yes I need more front sway bar, but I finally have a car where changing airpressure actually has a noticable and tunable effect.

I swear it pushed so bad before with just a stock front bar that no matter what you did with the air pressure, the chassis dynamics never really changed or just got worse.

If any good (or bad) pictures surface I will repost here.

I also love the way the new 165 lbs progressive spring and Koni reds work on the road.

I swear it rides firm, but better than before and nver jaring.

Chris I have one plastic washer on each side. How many should I have?

Scott

From today - on the gas heading down the back "straight".
Yes, I am turning (but not as hard as the last AX).

Nice. Car looks good.

So I am looking at options for making my front sway bar adjustable, but if I happen to come across a used adjustable bar for sale - what size is the right bar for me?

I would tell you to get a 22 on its softest setting but only if you plan to keep modding the car. If you are going to stay close to your current configuration then get the 19mm. It may be worth it to spend a little bit more and buy a setup that the bar can be changed as the car progresses.

Never say never, but in the next few years I don't see going much beyond a 2056 engine, 205 tires, new front inserts, bump steer kit, maybe stiffen the chassis...

I like it more than ever as a street car - not looking to change that.
I want to build in adjustability more than all out performance.

A 22 swaybar may be a bit much for the 165 pound rear springs. Which torsion bars are you using?

I have stock torsion bars, stock front bar (15mm?)

You may be surprised it what adding an adjustable link (the horizontal piece) would do for you.

If you can afford to buy a bigger bar, great.
Go for a nice piece of engineering...I don't like my weltmiester bar...
I would shoot for a starret bar.

Rich

Adding adjustment to the stock bar is the plan Rich, but until it happens its worth watching what comes up for sale, so I was curious what I should watch for....

I've been meaning to post my birthday/father's Day present my son bought for me

The Momo? Sweet. That's a great mod.

I would aim higher.

Thats a very nice bar you sell there Chris. Very reasonably priced as well.

sorry, did not know you sold a bar...
Good to know.

I meant tarrett, but heck, if Foley is selling one...lets buy from him.

rich

This will be my next bar.

http://www.tangerineracing.com/antiswaybars.htm

So a friend of mine at work is going to help me make some adjustable bar ends and links from a sketch I came up with.
We are going to make the arms out of 2"x1" aluminum bar stock and add and adjustable heim joint to the bottom of the stock link.
I just ordered the aluminum bar stock, total materials should come in at about $50!

sketch (not to scale):

So I didn't finish both sides in time and had to adjust the side I had on to match the stock side.

I'm going to change to homemade drop links with heims on both ends for easier adjustment.

Had some good runs and finished 6th out of 14 in the novice class.

I beat the next three cars ahead of me on raw time, but lost on PAX

Now that tire pressure actually makes a difference, I found myself back at the 38 psi Racer Chris recommended!

On a bad note, we had a guy show up in a super-charged Lotus.
He took one run where he let the instructor drive and went solo after that.

He had the misfortune of running out of talent on an off camber dip in the track where he lost the back end, didn't lift, the car hooked and shot him off the track where he hit a spectator who had his back to the track and slid backwards up the grassy hill almost onto the road.

I was eating lunch and turned around in time to see him and the spectator sliding across the pavement! They were both very lucky in that the spectator "only" got his ankle broken and a small patch of road rash, and the car has some lower front fender damage and a broken splitter.

Also a member died last week while hiking with some of his kids

Be careful out there folks!