I'm building this 2270 and I thought this would be a good one to document. I'm going to try and cover every little aspect of the build, although I'm not necessarily going to break down every process into a step by step.

I'm starting with a 1.7 'W' case. I did a quick line bore check and it's a nice STD case. But more on that later when I actually measure the line bore accurately.

Case Preparation - In this section I'm covering all the modifications and inspections to be done on the bare case.

Threaded Gallery Plugs, Resurface Oil Filter Mount
I used my slide hammer setup to pull the original gallery plugs. I'm just doing the 'normal five'. In this picture also shows the oil filter mount face - I pull the studs and true the surface up to ensure a good, leak-free seal.
Click to view attachment

HV Oil Pump
I have a Schadek oil pump that I've cut in half to mark the case for 'port matching' the oil pump. The ports on the case are smaller than the oil pump, so this simply eases the transition. I use a carbide cutter for aluminum in a pneumatic die grinder to carefully open up the holes.
Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment

Cleaning Stud Threads
I chased all the M8x1.25 studs on the case. This eases installation, but also ensures more accurate torque. Any fastener that has a specific torque value should have clean threads. The rust/dirt/sealant/etc on the surface will make the fastener harder to turn, which means you're getting a slightly false torque reading.

You'll see the head studs have all been removed. I don't use a tap or die to clean the head stud or the case threads because I've seen this result in loose head studs. I don't touch this parts of the case, and I use a wire wheel on the bench top grinder to clean the threads without risk of removing material.
Click to view attachment

Hi Mark,
How do you true up the surface for the oil filter mount, without distorting the surface? What are you using? I'm going to follow this thread, intently, as I have my engine apart and would like to do the same build.

Super excited about this thread!

BTW - for those of us out of the loop, which are the "normal five" plugs?

is there a decent way to shore up the sump bracket....the one that breaks if you torque it too much??

Rich

You should use a rethreading die not a cutting die to chase the threads. Using a cutting die will make the threads loose.

Flat steel bar with sticky back 320g sandpaper (available at a paint shop). They're usually not far out, so you don't have to work hard. Just give it a few light passes until the pattern is equal.


Three behind the flywheel. Two next to the oil filter console (see pic above).


Don't torque it too much. Seems like a smart ass answer, but really it's not an issue unless you're doing it wrong.


True. I need to get a set of those. Since I don't have them is why I don't touch the important fasteners (i.e. my comment about head studs).

Just commit to memory - it's only 7 ft lbs. Since most torque wrenches don't go that low, it's good to also have an inch lb wrench (84 inch lbs).

Just Curious if there is some additional welding that might help add some support to that part or area....

This will be fun to follow. I always wondered how you did the magic on my still running strong 2270.

what does a 2270 long block (minus core charge) run these days?

http://www.originalcustoms.com/engines.php

what's the ruling on a 2270, can it run well on D jet or L jet - OR - must it be dual carbs or aftermarket electronic fuel injection?

looks like jake switched from SDS to TEC some years ago.
http://www.sdsefi.com/specific.html

http://www.electromotive-inc.com/product/t...engine-control/

http://www.racetep.com/tec3.htm

http://www.aircooledtechnology.com/index.php/fuel-injection

jim

Is this motor for one of your cars, or a customer? And any reason to start with a 1.7 case?


Jeff

Not that I know of. I've only seen one case where this happened. I don't use a torque wrench, but I do use sealant on the gaskets since that sump plate doesn't get opened up very often.

In the $7k neighborhood.

There is a thread running right now about L-Jet on a 2270. I think any stock FI would be a kludge. Carbs or aftermarket FI will always be my recommendation. And I'm not a huge fan of carbs, unless you spend a lot of time (i.e. $) on them to make them really nice.

This is for me. I have four cars ya know.
The cases are all pretty much the same, so whatever measures good. I tend to feel that the 1.7 engines had an easier life, but this case was literally just pulled from the pile and happened to be a W case.

Better clarity about the 'normal five' plugs.
Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment

Here is the section that cracks if you torque the sump plate too much. As I mentioned previously, I don't really consider this a problem since it only ever breaks because of people cranking down on the bolt to try and stop a leak (or just plain overdoing it). Use a sealant on the gaskets and the center nut and tighten lightly. If it leaks, pull it all off, clean up the old sealant and gasket and start over, or look for nicks or a variance between where the two case halves come together.
Click to view attachment

Looks like a great build! will be following closely. I'm almost to the point of final cleaning and assembly of my motor (2056).

So, my P mechanic, 30 year owner of a highly reputible Porsche only Shop who owns and still races a 914 (along with 4-5 other 930's etc) says that the galley plugs is a waste of time and introduces more problems than it solves...... He insists it is not a case of better safe than sorry it is a case of waste of time and will be sorry. oy veh...

I'm not wanting to argue or debate, I have NO frame of reference other than the forums and his word, which are obviously in conflict. So, though I know it is fashionable to do this, I'd love to see what peoples experiences are. Who is running their Type 4 (be it in a 914, 912, Bus/Transporter/Bug with and without galley plugs. Has anyone actually blowen one? How deep are the plugs? My apologies if this is thread jacking, so please PM me and not take away from this thread.

Bottomline if I do these (I did buy them) I am going to have to find a new mechanic/shop. Took me 6 months to find this guy.....

They absolutely have blown on people. You see a thread pop up about it every 6 months or so. But only those five because the rest are smaller. The oiling system all sees the same psi, but if you actually do the math on psi as pounds per square inch it's lower force. This is an incorrect, oversimplification, but essentially a 1" plug at 50 psi, sees 50 pounds of force where a 1/2" plug at 50 psi would see 25 pounds of force. Right idea there, just bad math (the are area of a 1/2" plug isn't half of a 1" plug).

i do every single plug. if for any reason to get in there to clean. and to keep from blowing. plugs are cheap.

My old 1.8 did. I started the car, the oil light came back on again, I reved it a little, the light went out and came on again. I shut it off right there, and got out to look. I saw the plug and the nice puddle of oil--it was quite sizeable!

My mechanic replaced the plug (I think with another expansion plug, but I'm not sure) and re-filled the oil and I was good to go.

--DD

Hey Mark, what's the plan for induction? (Sorry if you mentioned it and I missed it)

Dad had a plug let go on a 2ltr and it made a huge mess. Right behind the flywheel and covered the clutch in oil.

Cool

MicroSquirt of course. Might build a custom set of stock style intake runners and plenum, but sized larger. Can't fantasize about that too much just yet. There's still a lot of work to do on the motor.

Can't wait to check this one out

Gonna use those ITB's?

Think I have said this a few times now, but check out the later 2.1 Vanagon throttle body. 50mm, bolts to the 1.8 plenum, and has a few other neat things about it. You just want to massage out the opening on the plenum a bit to match the larger size. Intake runners on the 1.8 are the largest stock diameter you can get (same as the 2.0 914 setup)

Mark, Thank you for taking the time to document all this stuff.
Its perfect for someone at the "fascinated and mysterious stage" of engine rebuilding.

Nope. I want a stock looking setup (surprise!) Oh, I just got the joke...

Got a little more work done.

Checking the line bore
I put the case together and tightened the through bolts hand tight. The first picture shows the tiny gap in the center bearing. I tightened the through bolts to 5 ft/lbs and the gap goes away. This is good.




Then I checked the diameter of the main bores. The bore gauge gets set at the wear limit. If the bores read above this value it needs to be redone. All of these measured between 0.003" and 0.0015" under the limit measured both ways (think X). 0.003" under the wear limit is basically untouched, AKA STD or standard. If the measurements were over the wear limit, the case would need to be bored to the next size. That would make the case 1st oversize, meaning it needs bearings with a larger outside diameter.

Nice write up

Dumb question here: I thought checking the line bore was making sure that the holes line up as well as the size of the holes, no?

The line bore is performed, at the factory or at your machine shop, by reaming each main bearing bore in the same operation. So once the case is aligned in the machine, each bore is made in a straight line. Variance would depend on the quality of your machine and the quality of your boring bar. It's a fairly safe assumption that they are lined up. I've never seen any mention of doing that sort of check.

Here is one way. The boring bar pictured isn't in place yet, but you can see the three cutters that will do the machining. The bar is lowered into place and then the cut dimension is set and all three bores are cut at once.

Found a problem with the case. Just shows how closely you have to pay attention to the important surfaces.
Click to view attachment

Had the machine shop deck the cylinder surfaces and clean up the inside bore so it's round again.
Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment

No don't use those ITB's! They're paid for!

You should go low compression and turbocharge it!

Does cleaning up the inside bore affect the slip in fit of the cylinder?

The cylinders should never be a tight fit to the case. They seal on the flat surface. The cylinders need space to expand. These didn't get opened up any serious amount. Mostly just the deformed section was removed.

How do you know the main line is inline with itself...3-4 point plane ??

a light pass with a line hone would ensure that,since you have material..

Forgive me for the dumb question, but $7k for a type 4 re-build?

That sounds scary. Is it worth it, or would doing a 911 and spending

a bit more be a better choice? I would like to do a hot rod 4, but that's

pricey(?)

It's not exactly *just* a Type IV rebuild. It requires the crank to be modified. With a bit of a pop in compression and the right cam and exhaust, HP can be increased by 50% - 100%. But the real gem in this motor is the torque. You can just drive the snot out of it in any gear. I would guess $10K after all you need to bolt this in...

Is this is a streetable engine, or a full race engine?

What I charge for an engine is what I charge. This thread will detail some of the processes that go into the build. If you think it's a crazy price -- that's okay. Shop around. I'm sure you'll find someone cheaper. The trick, you'll find, is to figure out why their engine is so much cheaper and what steps they're skipping to save a few bucks.

I don't mean to sound dismissive, but I learned a long time ago that I can't afford to stay in business by pricing things by what people wish they cost. I price things by what it takes to build them and to do it right.

Is there a "LIKE" button on here?

So what do you think an engine like this should cost? Reality is you could maybe build a stock engine properly for about half Mark's quoted price. Jake will probably chime in here soon. I suspect he would be in the $10-$12K range and if you questioned it, that would be your last conversation with Jake.
Mark builds the best engines on this side of the country. He charges what he charges.

Oh, it is streetable if you want, or not... Depends.

I'm still wondering what it is that you're voicing that you think others are thinking? Mark has been selling stock rebuilds at $5K for years.

I think a lot of people come into this with expectations set by engines like the Small-Block Chevy. But that's a real case of apples and oranges.

The SBC has been around for approximately ever, and has received development by GM and the aftermarket throughout that whole time. Approximately eleventy-zillion of them have been made, as well, so parts can be made in large lots and the prices can be pretty low.

The VW Type IV was used in the later Bus, the 411/412, and the 914 (and 912E). I think that's it. Not very many, compared to the SBC. Development by the factory was done by the mid-70s. The aftermarket was never huge enough to support large numbers of shops doing intensive development after that, either. More-advanced parts tend to be done in very small batches, and the market for them is small as well, so they have to be priced high to even get made.

So yeah, $10K can get you a couple copies of a 500 HP Chevy motor. (Or more, I haven't exactly done real research here.) But when the parts used to build the high-powered Type IV are built in such small numbers, they're going to cost a lot.

There are technical issues as well, such as the difficulty of radiating more heat from an air-cooled motor without redesigning the cooling fins, versus the ability to just stick on a bigger radiator, and more.

The differences are there, and almost every one means the Type IV engine will be more costly to build than the Chevy.

--DD

Several many years ago I built a 2316 Raby kit. just the pieces of the standard kit were 6500 bones. I had my own 44 IDF's, my own Tangerine header, my own accusump, oil cooler. I supplied the fan, clutch, flywheel, pressure plate. for Blake to balance.

So you can not touch a turn key 200 HP Type IV for less than 12K.

Was t worth it? Hell yea, every time I walked away from a Brandy new Mustang or SRT 8 hemi going down the front straight it was worth every dime.

You can also take an old stud and cut slots into it to make a thread chaser.

If you're going to build a 2270, you're probably going to put your foot in it many times. It is at that time that you will be wondering if it will stay together and was it built right. You will have forgotten what you paid for it, but if Mark does it, you will know that it was built by someone who knows what he is doing and that is what matters. When my AX times are generally lower than even late model 911s, I know I made the right decision.

Be careful with this technique. I've heard stories of the rough-cut edge causing the same thread oversizing. The way I heard about your technique, and the way I will always think about it is - it's the perfect technique when you have no other option.

Do you use original mahle piston and barrel assays in your builds? If not why not?

We start at pretty much 17K these days for a 2270. With the component quality going down sharply and the core quality too, we have seen sharp upward spikes in the expenditure curve. Its not stopping purchasers, though.. I still have a 10 month backlog.

now i see how you beat me out there....

Really cool - thanks for this thread Mark!
Subscribed